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Some map concepts just don't work...
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals...
In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup.
Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy...
the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible.
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On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote:
Some map concepts just don't work...
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals...
In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup.
Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy...
the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible.
be happy protoss doesn't have to spend gas for warp prism, unlike zerg has for nydus or drops.Map ilooks awsome tho and exept it looks even more turtly than shakuras, we will see:D
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Protoss have the best defence with islands, photons, warp-ins and blinkstalker if they can blink out of the island (which is not the case here)
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I can't find this map. Isn't avaiable on eu server?
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I didn't see this (maybe I missed) but one possible negative thing about islands with creep tumors is they are much easier still for Terran to take.
Why? Terran has anywhere on the map detection and 2 ways to take care of the tumor (drops and dropping SCV's from a CC). For Protoss and Zerg drop is not a necessary part of the army compositions as well as having the ability to scan for the tumor with no previous set up (toss and zerg have to get mobile detection over to the island, Terran can just scan).
In Sanshorn Mist AE we saw that Zerg and Protoss were actually the only ones using islands, and I think with the tumor that alone could deter them away from it completely.
I could be 100% off base, just spent a lot of time thinking about Sanshorn's Islands and seems like the same logic would apply here.
On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote:
Some map concepts just don't work...
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals...
In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup.
Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy...
the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible.
Islands went 100% unused by Korean Terrans on Sanshorn Mist, I would argue that maybe actually islands are a VERY overlooked aspect of mapmaking these days and might actually be P or Z favored.
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Now that is a very sexy map. I look forwards to seeing it in the next Arena of Legends!
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On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote:
Some map concepts just don't work...
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals...
In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup.
Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy...
the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible.
Its true terrans can take island expos faster but its also harder for terrans to defend the island expo because you can't instantly reinforce there with units unlike protoss warp ins/zerg nydus and mass muta
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Hey I can't see where to dl it on team crux's site and can't find it on bnet, would someone be so kind as to point to where I can dl metropolis?
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Is there any chance of this getting released on NA anytime soon? I really want to try this map out and I can't wait to see it in AoL!
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On December 27 2011 21:57 Lixo wrote:Show nested quote +On December 27 2011 21:46 Mereel wrote:
lol 5 free bases......what a terrible map is that. i predict a 100% terran winrate against both races "Suggest players 4" Means it's designed for 2vs2.
you sir, while being incorrect, made me smile ear to ear with your naivety 
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United Kingdom20326 Posts
On December 28 2011 05:31 Superouman wrote:
Protoss have the best defence with islands, photons, warp-ins and blinkstalker if they can blink out of the island (which is not the case here)
Missile turrets are inarguably the best anti air static defense in the game, mass repair makes you require far less of them for a lot of threats, planetary means you dont die if your opponent drops 8 food there and you dont have a warp cycle off cooldown (A legitimate issue, suprisingly, ive lost nexii on islands in team games between cycles to a single drop when they run around with stim and dont target probes) coupled with the way flying orbitals work and how good medivacs are in every terran matchup i think it is near universally agreed on that terrans are advantaged with islands to a large degree
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I've always loved the look of this map (including the original) and have been waiting for the opportunity to see some games played on it. Thankfully I'll get the chance now that GOM has put it in a map pool.
Reading through the comments in this thread, I am dumbfounded. This is obviously designed as an easily splittable map a la Shakuras Plateau, yet people are denouncing "5 base turtle" play as though it were the most disgustingly abusive style in the game. Do they really think a 5-base vs 5-base tug-of-war is that bad? Other people seem to be focusing on the islands and claiming that they break the balance of the game. Everything I've seen in SC2 tells me that their claims are hysterical bullshit, and that islands remain an under-explored aspect of melee maps, but if there is a balance problem with the islands which come out during tournament play, those problems should be easy enough to fix.
I like this map a good deal more than Shakuras. The expansion progression is more natural, and rather than going out and defending the low ground when trying to take the 3rd, you have a nice high ground choke. Also, unlike Shakuras, where the center is really narrow, this center is really wide open, which ought to make late-game engagements much more interesting. My one worry about this map is the vulnerability of the mains, which might tempt terran/protoss to do all-ins; however, the vulnerability of the mains is necessary in the late game when there is otherwise only 2 small chokes to attack into (in the case of 5-base turtle). Again, I am really interested in seeing how this map plays out. Hopefully a few epic games will convince people that this is a map worth keeping.
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Seeker
Where dat snitch at?37072 Posts
Forced cross spawning I hope? Otherwise...... bases are far too close to each other.......
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On December 28 2011 06:23 Diamond wrote:
Islands went 100% unused by Korean Terrans on Sanshorn Mist, I would argue that maybe actually islands are a VERY overlooked aspect of mapmaking these days and might actually be P or Z favored.
I'm pretty sure that because islands haven't been in maps for so long they are just not part of the "plan" of the players. They aren't part of the metagame. So players simply don't use them because of that, not because of their balance.
Imo the islands on Sanshorn basically only favor Zerg massively if they decide to go mutas.
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outside of the map looks awesome but the actual playable zones are lacking, maybe you wanted that really simple look to contrast with the rest, but i think its too basic.
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Dunno if close-by-air spawn is disable or not. That would create a bit more variety of strategies imo. Doesnt hurt
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I've been looking for this map on NA and I can't seem to find it. It would be great if someone can upload this to the NA server as I really want to try this map out.
Great stuff by the way LSPrime; you make some amazing maps that definitely push the envelope!
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On December 29 2011 03:56 Arceus wrote:Dunno if close-by-air spawn is disable or not. That would create a bit more variety of strategies imo. Doesnt hurt
Create more variety if it is or isn't disabled?
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how do we get the team crux maps on NA? we need these maps!
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EPT
