[M] (2) CruX Metropolis

On December 03 2011 14:15 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote:
Absolutely gorgeous map, I'm seriously jealous. Not just the aesthetics though - although that part is really sick - the layout looks cool too. The creep tumors look out of place though, visually speaking. I think just for fun you could try a hostile missile turret though

On December 03 2011 20:28 Superouman wrote:
I don't see the utility of creeped islands. Players take islands so rarely and you put a handicap to the one wanting to take it. For example, on Sanshorn Mist AE, i never saw any player take the islands, and they don't have anything blocking them.

On December 03 2011 18:42 Sea_Food wrote:
If you didnt know this is just reskin of plains of despair.

Amlitzer:
Absolutely stunning map, another job well done LSPrime. I do have one concern I would like to raise though that worries me; it seems like it's really easy for a player, especially a terran, to turtle off of 5 bases and then push out with a 200/200 army. Also, do you mind telling me if it's possible for a siege tank to attack the mineral line and/or gas of the middle non-island expos from one of the mains?

On December 03 2011 22:24 Sloke wrote:


The same concerns as i have with this layout. The 2 only chokes that seperates the 5 bases on one side from the middle are so small or should i say non-existend. And if u would say: "so it's ok just take more expos and harass" i think the air-space around the mains are also quiet small. Here a pic for better understanding:

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 04 2011 06:29 IronManSC wrote:
lol @ amlitzer...

no. just no.

On December 04 2011 06:45 Amlitzer wrote:

Great argument, in particular I love the lack of basic grammatical skills I feel it adds a nice touch.

On December 03 2011 22:24 Sloke wrote:


The same concerns as i have with this layout. The 2 only chokes that seperates the 5 bases on one side from the middle are so small or should i say non-existend. And if u would say: "so it's ok just take more expos and harass" i think the air-space around the mains are also quiet small. Here a pic for better understanding:

+ Show Spoiler +

On December 04 2011 06:54 IronManSC wrote:



I don't understand what grammatical skills I am "lacking" in particular other than not capitalizing a word... BUt, if you face the minerals toward the center you make it extremely hard for zerg since they will have to circle around the main to get any siege units that are firing into the minerals.

Try not to troll a map-maker into implementing a feature you would love to abuse for harassment, and don't troll me over grammatical skills.

On December 04 2011 12:42 Amlitzer wrote: I'm sorry but TPW always has and always will be a second-tier map making team in comparison to the likes of ESV and the GSL people, so I honestly do not care you are on a "team".

On December 04 2011 13:31 FoxyMayhem wrote:
And to everyone else, I encourage you to discourage petty mud-flinging where ever its found, and foster discussion, not condescension. Let's keep the map making forum a nexus of awesome, and not let it descend into a drama fest worthy of MTV, yeah yeah?

<3

On December 04 2011 12:42 Amlitzer wrote:

The whole point in moving the minerals is to make them easier to harass. I don't understand at all why you are implying that would be an unfair advantage for terran. If anything, it would actually be easier for mutas to harass than it would be for siege tanks to siege the mineral line. No matter where you spawn you are going to have to get mutas, where as terran is not always going to get siege tanks. Even if you get siege tanks, a siege in that location is not a smart idea since you would end up losing the tanks 99% of the time. It's also highly doubtful that a siege at that location would be able to even brake even economic wise. Not to mention as Artosis always says the proper way to play mech is to not lose any siege tanks while building up your force and then pushing out. The zerg player does not have such an option, he has to go mutas in order to harass his opponent's expos. This isn't metal where you can sometimes sneak down the opposite lane and attack one of the other mains/naturals. This is due to the fact that on this map the two paths are right next to each other, in comparison to metal which has a large enough gap to fit an entire gold base. I don't know about you, but I'm getting sick and tired of seeing these split map situations where the player take their half of the map and then push out with 200/200. It's like I'm watching bronze players play except it's off of 5 base instead of 1.

I'm not "trolling" you, I'm sorry you have to resort to such baseless claims to cover your own ass. I probably will not even get the chance to play on this map outside of custom games with friends so why would I "troll" LSPrime into implementing a "favorable" feature? Just because my view opposes yours does not make my motives without good intentions. I also don't care that you are a "map maker", I'm a map maker to, which is why I'm in this thread in the first place. Let me guess, you think just because you are on some map making clan that that gives you some sort of authority over map analysis? I'm sorry but TPW always has and always will be a second-tier map making team in comparison to the likes of ESV and the GSL people, so I honestly do not care you are on a "team".

On December 07 2011 07:37 lovablemikey wrote:
This map is super beautiful, but I think the layout is too typical. A few people have brought up some caveats that I agree with, but those aside, I don't think this map does anything differently enough. I'm assuming you don't want to spend a lot of hours changing things because the details are so polished already, so I'll gently encourage you to call this done and start your next map. Although, some of the suggestions others have made would be easy. Do those!

On December 27 2011 20:31 RoboBob wrote:
The creeped island is a cool idea. But the current tumor placement is bad. It will take too long for the creep to dissolve for either Protoss or Terran to take that base effectively. But Zerg can just Nydus one Drone there to kill the Tumor and plant the Hatchery immediately.

Why not move the tumor closer to the center of map? I don't mind Zergs being able to take the island right away, as long as the creep can be cleared quickly.

On December 27 2011 20:29 ChriS-X wrote:
really hope close by ground spawns are disabled, otherwise it'll just be like the old metalopolis

On December 27 2011 20:52 Andreas wrote:

What? Is that a joke? It's a 2 player map...

On December 27 2011 20:56 grs wrote:

The overview screen shot in the OP shows 4 spawn points for me.

On December 27 2011 21:46 Mereel wrote:
lol 5 free bases......what a terrible map is that. i predict a 100% terran winrate against both races

On December 27 2011 21:57 Lixo wrote:


"Suggest players 4"
Means it's designed for 2vs2.

On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote:
Some map concepts just don't work...
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals...
In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup.
Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy...

the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible.

On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote:
Some map concepts just don't work...
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals...
In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup.
Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy...

the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible.

On December 28 2011 03:24 Markwerf wrote:
Some map concepts just don't work...
Islands are terrible imo, protoss simply has a MUCH harder time using them then any other race. Warp prism is a niche tactic for protoss, medivacs are standard (must?) for terran. Terran can also fly over orbitals...
In other words terran has a 100x easier time taking island expo's (regardless of a creep tumor on it or not) then protoss which means islands just suck as they are so screwed in one matchup.
Islands just don't fit sc2, the worst thing is that terran can always abuse an island in a baserace by flying over an orbital and building up from scratch there. If you have 20 ground units but no more nexi / hatchery and the the money to build one you simply lose against terran if they get their orbital there... You can't do anything and they can build up a reasonable army from one base simply using MULES to start their economy...

the differences between the races are too big in sc2 imo to allow for really unique map characterisitics to work well. Gold doesn't work well (mules are too good on it, zerg can take a gold much easier then protoss usually etc.), rocks often suck (too hard to break for zerg usually as they have so few units when droning..) and islands are just sheer impossible.

On December 27 2011 21:57 Lixo wrote:


"Suggest players 4"
Means it's designed for 2vs2.

On December 28 2011 05:31 Superouman wrote:
Protoss have the best defence with islands, photons, warp-ins and blinkstalker if they can blink out of the island (which is not the case here)

On December 28 2011 06:23 Diamond wrote:
Islands went 100% unused by Korean Terrans on Sanshorn Mist, I would argue that maybe actually islands are a VERY overlooked aspect of mapmaking these days and might actually be P or Z favored.

On December 29 2011 03:56 Arceus wrote:
Dunno if close-by-air spawn is disable or not. That would create a bit more variety of strategies imo. Doesnt hurt

On January 03 2012 06:20 vdAcE wrote:
when you upload this map on the European server?

P.S this map is beautiful!!!

On January 02 2012 22:52 MildCocoA wrote:
Uploaded map in NA

wait EU & SEA

On January 05 2012 01:16 Sumadin wrote:
Gotta admit i am not liking the Neutral creep turmor island expantions. Island expantions by default always favor terran. This is not only because of lift off but also because of turrets which are superior to their counterparts because of possible Upgrades and repairs. When even Blizzard say they can't make islands balanced you really have to consider if it can work.

The problem i find with a creep tumor is also that it reacts so differently to different races.

Protoss:
Protoss are already a clear losser in terms of Island expantions because their only option for taking them is through a warp prism. Now they also have to get a Observer to make space and even then they have to wait for the creep to reside. Protoss don't really have other options for removing the tumor as stargate doesn't provide mobile detection. You could drop a cannon on island but then it is just going to take even longer to take the expansion.

Zerg:
Zerg is slightly better in this regard as they do have 2 options for getting a drone to the island. Nydus and Overlord drops. The latter is probably preferred as it doesn't give it self away instantly. Both of these require lair so the detection is not really an issue. Also once the tumor has been dealt with Zergs can instantly take the expansion as Creep doesn't prevent zerg buildings.

Terran:
As mentioned Terran already has many advantages regarding islands which is why even blizzard has given up on them. Besides Turrets and Lift off terran also have scan which gives acces to much earlier removal of the tumor, potentially through a Banshee rush. A raven could also do the job. While the creep still has to reside terrans can have their base ready and even make it an orpital before that. Once the creep goes away terrans can instantly land the finished base which overall might be even faster than what Zergs can currently do. Drops are also a much more common tactic for terran and medivacs has multible usages besides taking the expantion. Hence terran still has a clear advantage regarding these islands, with or without tumor.

On January 05 2012 15:38 DYEAlabaster wrote:



While what you said is absolutely true IN THEORY, in practise, island expansions are taken most by zerg, second by toss, and LEAST by terran (for some reason). Statistically.

On January 05 2012 15:38 DYEAlabaster wrote:
While what you said is absolutely true IN THEORY, in practise, island expansions are taken most by zerg, second by toss, and LEAST by terran (for some reason). Statistically.

On January 06 2012 05:27 Antares777 wrote:
I'm pretty sure Zerg takes islands the most, then Terran, and lastly Protoss. Using a Creep Tumor really harms the ability to take an island expansion as Protoss. I would just leave them unblocked to give them more of a chance, because it won't really make the islands any easier to expand to as Terran or Zerg. Zerg will have detection by the time they can get to the island, and Terran will have detection from the start. Protoss is forced to get an Observer and Warp Prism, which can only build one at a time (unless the player is doing some ridiculous double Robotics Facility build) and cut into Colossus production, making their army weaker.

In summary, the Creep Tumors should be removed.

In addition to that, it would be awesome if the islands were within blink range. Then Protoss could do an exclusive blink Stalker gateway build, allowing them to split their army and making games involving Protoss much more interesting.

On January 18 2012 21:27 Ketch wrote:


Maybe put a object on the island that destroys itself after 5-8 min? Like the watch tower on Xel'Naga Fortress used to do.. I think the creep + tumor is intended to block the island early game, so maybe this mechanic could also be used again. I always have like islands though, just being around as an option on the map.

On January 06 2012 05:27 Antares777 wrote:

In addition to that, it would be awesome if the islands were within blink range. Then Protoss could do an exclusive blink Stalker gateway build, allowing them to split their army and making games involving Protoss much more interesting.

On December 03 2011 14:26 LSPrime wrote:

and zerg can not build hatchery before remove creep tumor

On March 18 2012 03:30 ArcticRaven wrote:
Seriously man.... Look at the picture ^^. red means unbuildable, and it's so because there's the tumor in the way.

On March 18 2012 03:30 ArcticRaven wrote:
Seriously man.... Look at the picture ^^. red means unbuildable, and it's so because there's the tumor in the way.

On March 18 2012 03:42 Praetorial wrote:


Since Terran and Protoss need detection in order to kill it and wait for the creep to go away, Zerg might as well need detection as well AND have the added benefit of being able to expand immediately, since they have limited early detection.