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On November 14 2011 06:04 SolidZeal wrote:Show nested quote +On November 13 2011 16:37 Darclite wrote:
I'm curious, what are protoss players having success with? Or what are terrans and zergs struggling against? I don't think I'm doing it right, I'm only using the oracle and I want to know how people are making the replicant and tempest work. Against terran I've had a lot of success with collosus/tempest when I get multiple bases up. heavy zealot/colossus/tempests it's ridiculously hard to stop unless they have a huge viking count. Remax with a fair amount of stalkers and blink under the vikings ftw.
Same here, though in the games I did this both of us were pretty much just messing around with the new units, macroing up and not really attacking. In a real game I think colossus/tempest would be way harder to get without dying to an early attack, especially if you include blink like you mentioned - that would require all 3 tech paths.
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to add to my other post, as long as you have 50 energy you can make a unit a detector.....
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"- Replicant no longer replicates with its old health"
This makes me think of a replicant micro where you use the replicant's health as a buffer to get it into position in enemy fire and then replicate each one just before it dies, kind of like blinking stalkers before they die.
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On November 14 2011 06:52 Zergrusher wrote:
I have a quick thing to point out about the vipers occular parasite abillity
its not 1 cast only, it costs 50 energy per cast
and people said it was a" one time only" probally because you can only cast it on 1 idividual unit at a time, per cast
take this for instance, the if the viper has full 200 energy it can eather make 4 units detectors , cast 3 blinding clouds, or do 2 pulls( all up to the played and situation and unit comps
This isn't true, sources have noted it is only single cast.
http://wiki.teamliquid.net/starcraft2/Viper
http://starcraft.wikia.com/wiki/Viper
On November 14 2011 09:10 Patashu wrote:
"- Replicant no longer replicates with its old health"
This makes me think of a replicant micro where you use the replicant's health as a buffer to get it into position in enemy fire and then replicate each one just before it dies, kind of like blinking stalkers before they die.
Fair point, that would be pretty weird to see not sure it's what they intended. I'll have to see how that plays out, but the replicant is one of the least cost efficient units in the game so it seemed insult to injury that losing health on your replicant meant losing health on the new unit, it means you have to baby them particularly, but since they have infinite range maybe it is only fair.
Thinking about it more I'll probably end up reverting this change.
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Just tried this out, very happy. Thank you so much for this!
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On November 14 2011 11:22 Zergrusher wrote:
which scources?
I linked the wiki pages and people who attended BlizzCon have mentioned that it was only single cast.
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Russian Federation4295 Posts
A bit unbalanced. Must cost more power, but without any limitations. Like 100 energy, and unit starts with 100 energy too.
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Funny about your sources since mine told me it was 50 energy per usage, with out the one time usage
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I had friends that went to blizzcon, and people on my friends list whow ere there also told me, hell, even a friend of mine that i graduated with and lives right down the street from me went to blizzcon and told me about the zerg units(since he knew I played zerg..and he owed me a favor, )
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On November 14 2011 15:49 Zergrusher wrote:
Funny about your sources since mine told me it was 50 energy per usage, with out the one time usage
What sources were they? I don't know why anyone would say it was single cast when it isn't, so I am giving people the benefit of the doubt. If you can provide some good evidence that suggests contrary to what I've heard by most people and some websites including those two wiki pages supported by SC Wikia and Liquipedia then I'll consider it, but otherwise it is staying as it is.
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it was 1 time use at blizzcon, they discussed it in sotg aswell. but they all thought it should be changed to a energy cost. not to cheap so u can spam it, something like 75.
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This is so fucking awesome, I've been playing games with my friend and just loving the new units and abilities. I've been working on an awesome 2 base tempest rush build that basically is like a 3 gate fe into colo tech in terms of mineral and gas costs. Also, instead of getting a forge for plus one attack I just upgrade the Tempests attack with my cyber core. Convenient to say the least. Attacking with a nice ground army plus about 3-4 Tempests right around the 13 minute mark just plain feels nice.
Thanks Xenox!!
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From a different perspective: the 'only one ocular parasite per viper' seriously hurts zerg. It feels, at least, really up.
Suppose the opponent does a dt/burrowed roaches timing push, around the same time your lair finishes. You need to have 200 gas for 1 (!) observer. But who are you going to make a detector? A (slow) overlord? Have fun chasing the dt/burrowed roaches. A ground unit? Have fun keeping it alive against dt - and then you need 200 gas more, before you can have detection again.
You better pray you have an evolution chamber and that you can get a spore crawler up.
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On November 14 2011 21:18 XenoX101 wrote:Show nested quote +On November 14 2011 15:49 Zergrusher wrote:
Funny about your sources since mine told me it was 50 energy per usage, with out the one time usage
What sources were they? I don't know why anyone would say it was single cast when it isn't, so I am giving people the benefit of the doubt. If you can provide some good evidence that suggests contrary to what I've heard by most people and some websites including those two wiki pages supported by SC Wikia and Liquipedia then I'll consider it, but otherwise it is staying as it is.
As far as I know, both statements are true:
You can cast the spell once per viper. If the detector-unit dies, the viper can cast the spell again. So its one time use as lang as the detector lives.
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That sounds a bit better, though.
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I don't think this is correct. There was a lot of discussion by blizzcon attendees in the Zerg detection thread and almost everyone who played it said it was a multiuse ability. For example
+ Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 17:33 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:37 Jayjay54 wrote:On October 22 2011 18:53 Belial88 wrote:
Also, the detection parasite spell is available immediately, and it's very low energy cost, and the parasite lasts forever. You just put it on a couple units, I really dont think the whole 'babysit a random roach" is an issue. You just put detection on everything lol, its not a problem.
man you post like u read it all, but fail to read that the detection spell is a one use only spell. so unless you invest like 1000 gas, you'll have to babysit the roach man u post like u know something because you read it all, but you aware that I said in my post I actually PLAYED the new stuff at blizzcon right? And then there was the whole panel that talked about it for hours... You are wrong, and I was right. The detection spell can be used as much as you want. You can only cast it once on the unit of choice, but obviously that is because it lasts forever. It costs 25 energy. If you have 200 energy on the viper, you can put it on 8 units. So you don't have to babysit anything, you just cast it on multiple units. Edit: Wow, it sounds like a LOT of people simply don't understand the new units. I don't know if the info hasn't been posted or people don't read, but I was at blizzcon and I'll clear some things up: 1. Viper is available as soon as lair done. It's very slow, and hatches from larva. It builds fairly quickly. There is a concern that, because of the 200 gas cost and having to hatch it, you can't scout in the early midgame with a prepositioned overlord. No idea what they plan to do about it, but right now zerg has no midgame scouting options. Flying an extremely slow viper of 200 gas over the opponents base is really dumb, and you'd have to slowly fly across the whole map. I get that overseer is bad, but they shouldn't completely remove the role, they should replace it. it DOES NOT need spire. 2. Burrow move banes are hivetech. Just like hydra speed. While these changes are super cool, it's not going to change the game dynamics. The viper, for example, may force ghosts, different play styles, more bunkers, et cetera. But hive tech is super late game, it gives options to zerg but this stuff comes too late to alter the course of a game, it only makes them more dynamic in end-game. Which was never an issue. While I guess Ultra vs BL may be bland, Zerg's late game is mostly fine. What I think Zerg needs: 1. As evidenced in Nestea vs MVP final game, zerg needs a way to deal with drops once mutas become less viable (thors, aoe, crazy lategame armies, need to have t3 units instead of t2, etc) and zerg is less mobile. Spines just absolutely don't cut it. I really hope we see something like what protoss got with the nexus (i've 'nexus-cannon' rushed so many people. You make a gateway like normal, then get a far pylon. Then make another pylon closer. You can now cannon rush witohut a forge rofl). 2. Lair tech. Zerg's problem is early and mid-game diversity and options (like what terran has i suppose), not end game. Make the hive stuff lair tech (obviously nerfs necessary) or make new stuff. I don't have any suggestions, it's just weird late game was buffed when late game z isn't the prob
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216712¤tpage=24#475
There was a bunch of discussion on this in the thread, and the last I followed it it was considered accepted that it was multiuse.
Now personally I don't think its too bad to have it single use, but I don't think you can take liquipedia as gospel on this issue.
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On November 15 2011 16:04 redviper wrote:I don't think this is correct. There was a lot of discussion by blizzcon attendees in the Zerg detection thread and almost everyone who played it said it was a multiuse ability. For example + Show Spoiler +On October 23 2011 17:33 Belial88 wrote:Show nested quote +On October 22 2011 19:37 Jayjay54 wrote:On October 22 2011 18:53 Belial88 wrote:
Also, the detection parasite spell is available immediately, and it's very low energy cost, and the parasite lasts forever. You just put it on a couple units, I really dont think the whole 'babysit a random roach" is an issue. You just put detection on everything lol, its not a problem.
man you post like u read it all, but fail to read that the detection spell is a one use only spell. so unless you invest like 1000 gas, you'll have to babysit the roach man u post like u know something because you read it all, but you aware that I said in my post I actually PLAYED the new stuff at blizzcon right? And then there was the whole panel that talked about it for hours... You are wrong, and I was right. The detection spell can be used as much as you want. You can only cast it once on the unit of choice, but obviously that is because it lasts forever. It costs 25 energy. If you have 200 energy on the viper, you can put it on 8 units. So you don't have to babysit anything, you just cast it on multiple units. Edit: Wow, it sounds like a LOT of people simply don't understand the new units. I don't know if the info hasn't been posted or people don't read, but I was at blizzcon and I'll clear some things up: 1. Viper is available as soon as lair done. It's very slow, and hatches from larva. It builds fairly quickly. There is a concern that, because of the 200 gas cost and having to hatch it, you can't scout in the early midgame with a prepositioned overlord. No idea what they plan to do about it, but right now zerg has no midgame scouting options. Flying an extremely slow viper of 200 gas over the opponents base is really dumb, and you'd have to slowly fly across the whole map. I get that overseer is bad, but they shouldn't completely remove the role, they should replace it. it DOES NOT need spire. 2. Burrow move banes are hivetech. Just like hydra speed. While these changes are super cool, it's not going to change the game dynamics. The viper, for example, may force ghosts, different play styles, more bunkers, et cetera. But hive tech is super late game, it gives options to zerg but this stuff comes too late to alter the course of a game, it only makes them more dynamic in end-game. Which was never an issue. While I guess Ultra vs BL may be bland, Zerg's late game is mostly fine. What I think Zerg needs: 1. As evidenced in Nestea vs MVP final game, zerg needs a way to deal with drops once mutas become less viable (thors, aoe, crazy lategame armies, need to have t3 units instead of t2, etc) and zerg is less mobile. Spines just absolutely don't cut it. I really hope we see something like what protoss got with the nexus (i've 'nexus-cannon' rushed so many people. You make a gateway like normal, then get a far pylon. Then make another pylon closer. You can now cannon rush witohut a forge rofl). 2. Lair tech. Zerg's problem is early and mid-game diversity and options (like what terran has i suppose), not end game. Make the hive stuff lair tech (obviously nerfs necessary) or make new stuff. I don't have any suggestions, it's just weird late game was buffed when late game z isn't the prob There was a bunch of discussion on this in the thread, and the last I followed it it was considered accepted that it was multiuse. Now personally I don't think its too bad to have it single use, but I don't think you can take liquipedia as gospel on this issue.
Most published articles say it is a one-time use ability as this user points out
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=216712¤tpage=24#479
And one of the people above says it is "25 energy" when nobody else has ever said it was 25 energy, leading me to believe he wasn't being truthful in his statement/didn't actually play it at BlizzCon.
For now I'll side with the published articles since they would appear more trustworthy than the few people claiming it can be used multiple times, and as mentioned before I don't see why anyone would contrive it of being a one-time spell out of thin air, I think this rumour must be based in some truth. I will see though, more opinions are necessary I think.
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Patch 1.25 is up! Some big changes with this one particularly the Ultralisk charge being reworked to not only look but function fantastically, am extremely happy with the result. I also noticed the swarm host's attack rally was not always working for all the locusts, some would still move command forward, so this has been completely reworked and fixed so that locusts will always attack move now. The locust health has also been reduced upon further investigation of the Blizzard teaser videos.
Also I will be releasing videos of my balance tests that compare the teaser videos with my own videos of the same scenario in the HOTS Custom map, to show how similar the balance is  .
Patch Notes 1.25
- Viper can now target itself with ocular parasite
- Ultralisk Charge vastly improved
- Ultralisk Charge now has 9 range
- Ultralisk Charge is called Burrow Assault
- Locust movement speed reduced to 2 from 2.25
- Swarm Host's rally improved
- Burrowed Swarm Host initially unable to spawn locusts for 3 seconds (as real)
- Swarm Host movement speed increased to 2.25
- Locust attack move rally fixed to ensure attack move
- Replicant reverted to retain old vitals
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EPT
