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![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Zf0B0.jpg)
Played a couple games on Nerazim Crypt, and felt like making a Shakuras map. The result so far is a large macro map that's slightly smaller than Tal'Darim Altar, which is known to be the end-all be-all macro map.
Map Overview:
+ Show Spoiler +aesthetic note: the water flows really fast, and kinda looks like a trippy bed of clouds underneath the map.
Central View:
+ Show Spoiler +
-playable 164x164
-4 spawns
-16 expansions(4 gold)
-1 Xel'Naga tower
There's been a pretty major workover, now to 2.1. A natural walloff can be achieved with 1 pylon and 1 gateway, or 1 rax and 1 depot. The 3rd is on the low ground with 2 ramps to watch over. A 4th has been added, and the safest placement of expansions past the 3rd will depend on your opponent's spawn location.
The center area is a key area on this map. 4 gold expansions are available, but since they also serve as attack routes(outside the XNT's range) they should prove hard to hold. The volatility of holding expansions should make for interesting games.
I worked it so that siege tanks cannot completely contain movement if they were to put some on the high ground center ramps. The tower also shows what's on the ramps, in the case of siege tanks.
Fire away with comments and criticismz.
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I really like the layout. I think the choke at the natural could be tightened or brought closer to the base itself. right now there is just too much ground to cover in the nat.
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it kind of looks like a swastika
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I like the layout but not the natural, the rocks seem really really awkward. Also I think the third needs to be either much farther away or needs a new path to it. I dont think it should be possible to defend three bases off of one choke.
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On August 05 2011 01:16 Proko wrote:
I really like the layout. I think the choke at the natural could be tightened or brought closer to the base itself. right now there is just too much ground to cover in the nat.
I am considering something along those lines.
On August 05 2011 01:41 Kuror wrote:
it kind of looks like a swastika
Nou.
On August 05 2011 01:53 PassiveAce wrote:
I like the layout but not the natural, the rocks seem really really awkward. Also I think the third needs to be either much farther away or needs a new path to it. I dont think it should be possible to defend three bases off of one choke.
I shall work on the natural, because it does stand out to me as an issue. But the 3rd is hard to defend without stretching yourself out. That choke is rather wide, and far away from all 3 bases. I may do something where an alt entrance blocked by rocks is added, but it doesn't need to be farther away.
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On August 05 2011 01:38 Dragom wrote:
looks like crevasse
I'm starting to think this is a meme.
Crevasse is unique due to its middle elevation main, its high elevation backdoor expansions, wide open, medium-difficulty-to-defend thirds, extremely risky blue fourths, and medium elevation rotational center of the map with low-ground watchtowers.
The only similarity between the maps is the center design (the decals).
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My suggestion would be to add a blue fourth base to that little curve near the ramp leading to the elevated third.
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I really like the middle, but there is a lot of open/wasted space in the natural-third area. I think if you tightened that area up the map would be really great.
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Changes have been made. A rather major renovation actually. Thoughts?
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I like it a lot more, you fixed all of my major complaints.
Edit- I also noticed that there seems to be a particularly long distance between the main base and the ramp, was this a stylistic choice? It does seem to favor drop play heavily (not that there's anything necessarily wrong with that.)
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This is interesting. The layout is in a way like an island map in that each quadrant is like it's own world. It seems like it could be hard and creative from a tactical standpoint. If you move in too far, you could get blocked in by a flank, but also drops could become very deadly if you are not paying attention. If you are dropping, you have a HUGE main to land in, but you only real escape would be medivac as the front would be defended.
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I've done some minor changes - merely aesthetic - and I'm considering taking a crack at MotM with this. I'm rather happy with how this has turned out. May upload new visuals soon, but I wanna make sure I'm satisfied with the aesthetics before I make a big visual update.
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Too many easily defended expansions... would lead to stalemates. I think a 3rd or 4th base need multiple entrances to prevent that.
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Too true - the bases are far too easy to defend with the gold being the only decently porportioned and open base thats good. Another base is needed too that help move expansions into the other wings of the map.
Here's some ideas that i think have some merit. Put the third on lowest height cliff level, open up the thirds ramp to the center more as well a point it towards the center more so. Rocks are not needed as the base is already easy to take and needs to be more open.
Also the biggest improvement i can suggest is put in another base clockwise of the mains thats behind the gold on a height B cliff level. Have it link up to the next wing right close by the entrance to a third and put rocks on that entrance (but not on the current third). This would give another base, allow even more paths after breaking down the rocks, and provide another open base that could be accessed from the your nat, gold, or the third of next wing over. If you add this base alone i think you might still be able to keep the third as it is with a few new entrances.
I can include a pic to clearify if need be.
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On August 05 2011 16:30 hobbidude wrote:
Too true - the bases are far too easy to defend with the gold being the only decently porportioned and open base thats good. Another base is needed too that help move expansions into the other wings of the map.
Here's some ideas that i think have some merit. Put the third on lowest height cliff level, open up the thirds ramp to the center more as well a point it towards the center more so. Rocks are not needed as the base is already easy to take and needs to be more open.
Also the biggest improvement i can suggest is put in another base clockwise of the mains thats behind the gold on a height B cliff level. Have it link up to the next wing right close by the entrance to a third and put rocks on that entrance (but not on the current third). This would give another base, allow even more paths after breaking down the rocks, and provide another open base that could be accessed from the your nat, gold, or the third of next wing over. If you add this base alone i think you might still be able to keep the third as it is with a few new entrances.
I can include a pic to clearify if need be.
You've actually given me a good idea, and now that you mention it those areas between the wings look like something was always meant to be there. I feel kinda bad that I submitted it at this stage :p
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Oh wow. Brilliant revision, good sir. Brilliant indeed.
Is this uploaded on NA?
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On August 06 2011 02:10 Chargelot wrote:
Oh wow. Brilliant revision, good sir. Brilliant indeed.
Is this uploaded on NA?
It is, but I'm working on an additional expansion to each quadrant, so the layout may be altered a fair bit more when I update. If you can find it, can you play a couple of games, and perhaps give some more insightful feedback? The new layout I have feels large like TDA, but I'm still mulling it over.
edit: Here is what I have, not yet uploaded, just considering it. It seems like it may have some rotational imbalance.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On August 06 2011 02:17 MisfortuneS Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On August 06 2011 02:10 Chargelot wrote:
Oh wow. Brilliant revision, good sir. Brilliant indeed.
Is this uploaded on NA? It is, but I'm working on an additional expansion to each quadrant, so the layout may be altered a fair bit more when I update. If you can find it, can you play a couple of games, and perhaps give some more insightful feedback? The new layout I have feels large like TDA, but I'm still mulling it over. edit: Here is what I have, not yet uploaded, just considering it. It seems like it may have some rotational imbalance. + Show Spoiler +
After the Assembly Summer finals I'll play some games on it. As for the rotational imbalance, not necessarily. Because the fourth opens into two quadrants, it will ALWAYS be difficult to secure it unless you spawn in cross positions. However:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Co0F8.jpg)
Since the bottom player can safely grab his blue third, he will be expanding outwardly. The top player will have to expand to "closer" bases, and therefore the 3 o'clock base's fourth and the gold base under it become safer to grab. The top player loses ease of expanding, but gains ease of defense (including defense of the gold). I feel as if it would balance out.
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/cOEAv.jpg)
The yellow boxes represent the "base" of the player, while the orange boxed area represents the area which the player must defend. Since the north base has a smaller orange box, it is easier to move units from side to side, and therefore easier to defend. The southern player has an easier time securing bases, but will find it more difficult to hold them.
The expansion progression would play out this way because both players would naturally want to expand "safely", meaning as far away from the enemy as possible without sacrificing defensibility.
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Be sure when testing to check the worker distribution at the golds. While I know as a mapper mineral placements can be kinda boring and seem to need to be spiced up. The issue is with the gas in the center workers can distribute unevenly causeing hugely unexpected income difference than expected - nothing sucks more than finding out after game that 18 workers mined out on one side of a base will leave the other untouched and wasting idle workers. It doesn't entirely need to be changed as it can be done if done properly - just a possible bug to look out for.
Great work on the update and thanks for the recognition.
Before finishing it completely be sure to rough up the edges of the landmassws so it looks more natural. Straight lines unfortunately are very visually unappealling. I still thing the ramp from the third needs to point towards the center instead of on the same side of the other ramp closer to the mains. Test it to be sure tho.
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For the gold's gas placement - hadn't really thought about that, I never thought it could make much of a difference, and it's laid out the same way on scrap station, so I figured it couldn't be all bad. And it looks cool. I shall test and see though.
On August 06 2011 04:28 hobbidude wrote:
Before finishing it completely be sure to rough up the edges of the landmassws so it looks more natural. Straight lines unfortunately are very visually unappealling. I still thing the ramp from the third needs to point towards the center instead of on the same side of the other ramp closer to the mains. Test it to be sure tho.
And yeah, I will probably work on the edges of those 4th's, and the other pieces in general, to make it look more like the usual type of land mass. I'm trying to hammer down layout and shiz first.
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So I've played a few games, and I must say, it feels like it looks, like a giant macro map. It plays smoothly, I found the third to be exceptionally easy to defend with the rocks on the second ramp. It looks like you took that out on the updated version though.
The main minerals could use some moving, a little further towards the center of the map. There isn't a lot of room to move units behind them, like marines defending from banshees, etc. You should be able to fit a spawning pool behind the mineral line.
The gold works fine, even if one side mines out, they all transfer correctly.
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On August 06 2011 09:19 Chargelot wrote:
So I've played a few games, and I must say, it feels like it looks, like a giant macro map. It plays smoothly, I found the third to be exceptionally easy to defend with the rocks on the second ramp. It looks like you took that out on the updated version though.
Indeed. I don't think a 3rd should be easily defended, but I don't think it should be impossible to hold either. I feel this change has hit that happy medium.
On August 06 2011 09:19 Chargelot wrote:
The main minerals could use some moving, a little further towards the center of the map. There isn't a lot of room to move units behind them, like marines defending from banshees, etc. You should be able to fit a spawning pool behind the mineral line.
I see your point here. I shall incorporate something to that effect before I upload all the changes. Thanks for the support so far! I'd really like this map to become something special, and the suggestions so far have all helped me. I shall return once the changes have been implemented.
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Minerals have been adjusted on a few locations(main, nat, 4th), and the ledges have been adjusted for aesthetic purposes. OP has been updated, along with the map on BNet.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/kE6x0.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/JdPYl.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Xp3RT.jpg)
