|
(2)Undying Lands
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/MabWB.jpg)
Published on NA Server. Search 'Undying Lands' in Battle.net.
Specs:
Two Player Map 142 x 156 (playable).
2 Gold Expansions.
2 Watchtowers.
Creek is walkable but unbuildable.
Watchtowers do no give vision of the gold nodes in the center.
Overview:
Updated:
+ Show Spoiler +
Original:
+ Show Spoiler +
Map Description:
Plagued by extreme seasonal rainfall, this Bel' Shir community built structures worthy of withstanding week long periods of subterranean living circumstances. The main bases are secluded yet located fairly close to two natural expansions.
Original Concept: Click Here.
FUN FACT: The original map was used in GosuGamers.net's Carrier (brief ladder project) a number of years ago.
Map Features and Polls:
+ Show Spoiler +Spawn Location: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/mDhgQ.jpg) Original main base cliff points: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/xwjYT.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rbt6y.jpg) Poll: Thoughts on cliff points?4 Gate imbalance, apparent. (5) 71% Reaper imbalance evident. (1) 14% Unbiased terrain feature. (1) 14% Collossi imbalance, indisputable. (0) 0% Other suggestion? Please use comments. (0) 0% 7 total votes Your vote: Thoughts on cliff points? (Vote): Reaper imbalance evident.
(Vote): 4 Gate imbalance, apparent.
(Vote): Collossi imbalance, indisputable.
(Vote): Unbiased terrain feature.
(Vote): Other suggestion? Please use comments.
Main entrance choke: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pd1Tq.jpg) Poll: Is the view to this destructible rock too obscured?Yes, less tree clutter. (4) 67% Yes, lower the terrain. (2) 33% No, camera panning is fine. (0) 0% Other suggestion? Please use comments. (0) 0% 6 total votes Your vote: Is the view to this destructible rock too obscured? (Vote): Yes, lower the terrain.
(Vote): Yes, less tree clutter.
(Vote): No, camera panning is fine.
(Vote): Other suggestion? Please use comments.
Natural Expansion w/ old rock placement: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/pEpom.jpg) ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/WjrHX.jpg) Poll: Are the destructible rocks deter-mental? No, it provides interesting maneuverability. (4) 80% Yes, they need to be removed. (1) 20% Yes, they need to be placed directly on the ramps. (0) 0% Other suggestion? Please use comments. (0) 0% 5 total votes Your vote: Are the destructible rocks deter-mental? (Vote): Yes, they need to be placed directly on the ramps.
(Vote): Yes, they need to be removed.
(Vote): No, it provides interesting maneuverability.
(Vote): Other suggestion? Please use comments.
Third and Gold Expansion: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rdprh.jpg) Xel' Naga Watchtower: ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/6DiIq.jpg) Center-most location: - Mineral values are 250, 500, 750. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QyAcw.jpg) Original Fourth Expansion: - Four minerals were within siege range. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/FQz2V.jpg)
Newest changes:
+ Show Spoiler +
Quick Rating:
Poll: Balance poll.1/5 - Blatantly imbalanced. (3) 25% 2/5 - Balance is sub-par. (3) 25% 0/5 - Devoid of all forms of playability. (2) 17% 5/5 - Finely executed map; Re-playability high. (2) 17% 3/5 - Map creativity unethically out-lasts apparent flaws. (1) 8% 4/5 - Solid map features provide intelligent games. (1) 8% 12 total votes Your vote: Balance poll. (Vote): 0/5 - Devoid of all forms of playability.
(Vote): 1/5 - Blatantly imbalanced.
(Vote): 2/5 - Balance is sub-par.
(Vote): 3/5 - Map creativity unethically out-lasts apparent flaws.
(Vote): 4/5 - Solid map features provide intelligent games.
(Vote): 5/5 - Finely executed map; Re-playability high.
Poll: AestheticsB - I enjoy the terrain work. (10) 77% A - Doesn't catch my eye. (2) 15% C - Devoid of opinion. "As long as it's balanced, I'd play it." (1) 8% 13 total votes Your vote: Aesthetics (Vote): A - Doesn't catch my eye.
(Vote): B - I enjoy the terrain work.
(Vote): C - Devoid of opinion. "As long as it's balanced, I'd play it."
Please try to elaborate in the comment section.
I appreciate all comments and suggestions. Thanks in advance!
|
Well written thread, looking over and will edit post with comments.
[edit]
Alrighty.. PROS:
- Nice layout; I certainly like how you placed the map and the diagonal middle is esthetically pleasing with the underwater ramps
- Good texture work; always nice to see these days 
CONS:
- I disagree with the random gold minerals in the middle, as they don't seem to serve any purpose in particular. They can be easily exploited by terran (move CC + mules + move CC away)
- Expansion layouts seems subpar for the map, in my opinion. Too many are easily camped by tanks/long range units?
Suggestions/questions:
- The rocks blocking the double ramp: are they two rocks or just one?
|
wow I cant wait to see the map!
Like how you create tension
*placeholder*
|
the biggest issue i see right now is the highground above your main where you can warp in units from the highground
|
Finished the map thread; hope you all enjoy it! I added some polls in the spoilers and at the bottom of the OP.
edit: Fixed the Overview picture.
PM me to play-test, other-wise the map is public.
|
Should the creep be spreadable through the water? As it is now the creep is spreadable but the tumor cannot be placed (or any other building), in the water, and on the incline into it.
|
hummm map changed 2 much from its original version IMO.. but u did do a good job, I dont like maps size .. :S
|
On May 25 2011 03:03 oneil wrote:
Suggestions/questions:
- The rocks blocking the double ramp: are they two rocks or just one?
Currently there are two vertical destructible rocks at the naturals (2000 HP, I believe). Should it be one large vertical ramp with higher HP?
|
I'd be seriously worried about elevator strategies on this map. That base right next to your main is just begging to be sieged and lifted. I don't think there'd be any way to stop that, really. Additionally, those rocks will pose a major problem with siege tanks as well. You'd either have to break down the rocks beforehand or you'd have to let your natural get abused while you walk your army alllllll the way around and into his siege line, which would NOT be fun.
|
On May 25 2011 05:40 Farkinator wrote:
I'd be seriously worried about elevator strategies on this map. That base right next to your main is just begging to be sieged and lifted. I don't think there'd be any way to stop that, really. Additionally, those rocks will pose a major problem with siege tanks as well. You'd either have to break down the rocks beforehand or you'd have to let your natural get abused while you walk your army alllllll the way around and into his siege line, which would NOT be fun.
At the moment the destructible rocks are placed to take up space at the natural for defensive purposes against Hellion strikes. I could put destructible rocks on the ramps themselves and possibly push back the ramps so tanks are out of range.
|
I like the flow of the map a lot. It feels natural and easy to navigate. Plus, it's pretty. It looks like you put some care in the details and that is always a good thing.
I do notice a few things that you might want to think about. The biggest thing would be the double ramp at the naturals. I think combining those into one ramp would be better. Stalkers can blink like crazy in that area with little consequence. Not to mention tanks could really do a number on the mineral line. Having that much heat at your natural isn't so great. The only way around it is to kill both rocks before the Stalkers and Siege Tanks get there, which probably won't happen often. So Zerg players would be very frustrated.
Another thing is the size of some of the ramps. They could stand to be wider. Again, Zerg players would have a hard time getting anywhere for an attack on the ground.
I think all of my suggestions are to help Zerg players out. I drew a picture with a few more of them. I hope they help. Otherwise, you're sitting on a winner!
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/2VuZW.jpg)
|
Thanks for your feedback lovablemickey! I too was thinking about disconnecting part of the cliffs at the main base location. Im not yet sure if its necessary though.
|
Problem: Main is on low ground, and connected with a high ground base. 4gate is still a viable build in PvP, but can now be defended against with sentries + fast tech. As of now, it's practically impossible to stop a pylon from warping in units directly into your main from the connected high ground.
Why would changing it make zerg in particular happy lovablemikey?
Oh, yeah, and blinkstalkers.
|
I have a couple of comments:
1) Please don't block creep spread at the water! Creep spread is already an action-intensive process and I haven't seen even pros spread creep so awesomely that map designs should make it any harder. Purty please?
2) I want to jump in on loveablemikey's comments. Yes please widen the mid-map ramps. Even a double-wide or triple-wide ramp is still a pretty good choke at that point in the map.
3) To nasty and mikey: I would say that vision-blocking "pretty" pod is good as is, and even Zerg-helpful. It's exactly where I would put an Overlord on offense and defense.
|
I'd like to hear more people's opinion on the natural's alternate route. As it is, dimfish, the creep doesn't stop spreading, I only modified the terrain so that no buildings could deform the creek terrain.
|
On May 25 2011 09:23 Varpulis wrote:
Why would changing it make zerg in particular happy lovablemikey?
Oh, yeah, and blinkstalkers.
Bingo! Blink Stalkers and Reapers would be able to dive right into a Zergs main. Zergs don't get that option. Generally, I consider it something that needs to be taken into account when deciding where cliffs should be. For this map, as it is now, it seems like a feature that favors Protoss and Terran too much; especially since the main is lower. That would make me happy, at least.
|
I'll be implementing a terrain change for those cliffs upon further review.
|
What about LoS blockers on the high ground surrounding the main base? Would that make it safer vs. warp-ins? It would force protoss to sneak at least hallucinated Phoenix, or require a bull rush tactic to allow vision of the low ground. Thoughts?
|
Tanks, blink stalkers, and colossi can really abuse like... every single base on this map. Lots of very narrow ramps too. Gold minerals in the middle don't really accomplish anything - though I could see a terran dropping mules there at some point and then floating off after sucking it dry.
Blink stalkers can use that rock at the natural for shelter or blink up to the ramp and be on the high ground. Tanks can siege the natural there, as can colossi, if the rocks aren't broken. Thing is, zerg can't really afford to break down rocks THAT early, they need their lings to be doing map control.
Overall, the structure feels very Kulas ravinish right now.
If you took out the rocks at the natural ramps, put a gap at the top so pylons dont warp in your base from the high ground, moved the third base's minerals so that they are against the edge of the map, rather htan against the cliffside, and widened the ramp to the third, I feel like it'd improve the map.
Also, consider making the third 1-gas? - it was a mineral-only in BW, after all!
|
Update:
Changed the naturals' alternate route destructible rocks; each ramp has an individual rock pile rather than a shared vertical rock pile.
Added Line of Sight blockers to the cliff points surrounding the main base locations. Hopefully this will give a defender's advantage vs. Warpgate pushes.
Enlarged the Third expansions' ramps for larger army movement.
Enlarged the Fourth expansions' ramps for larger army movement.
The Fourth expansion is now un-tankable from the low ground.
Lowered terrain and eliminated some cluttered doodads obscuring vision of some locations of the map.
Comments on the changes are much appreciated. Thanks.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/rKuY6.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/nZDwY.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/QMrU2.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RKe2a.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/UyqZE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ZVfls.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/SUl5T.jpg)
