Here is the video that introduces the map (I didn't make it, the guy in the video did I guess).
Basically, it is a structured debate map where you either argue to defend or disagree with a given issue (think 'drawing contest' from sc1 ums except with debating). Each response is heavily timed has you type it out (I think it's 45 seconds per box you fill out). A winner is chosen by the remaining players who judge the discussion. This is the only custom map I have played so far and I am already fairly impressed by what the maker was able to do with the map maker. Scores are actually saved from session to session. I've entered five debates so far and am undefeated!
Here are my last two 'matches' (click to enlarge):
I usually offer to argue either side of a debate (you can choose just one side if you prefer) which is often very challenging but also very rewarding when you win!
Problems I've encountered:
1) The level of competition so far is a bit too low. Usually I am able to defeat claims like "you are wrong" or "Jesus said so." 2) The judges are often bad. For example, I once argued against someone who was afk and only won 2-1 instead of with a unanimous 3-0 (think blogs ratings lol) 3) A lot of the 'issues' which are generated randomly (from a big list made by the creators) are not very good... a little more effort should go into this.
I'm currently working on a strategy guide for this map which will be available in thread form and in paperback. Questions, Comments, Concerns?
Share screenshots of good/bad/funny debates!
edit: srs note: people who post screenshots of themselves trolling the game and not taking it seriously will be banned :3
I think it would be cool if the debates themselves were stored for evaluation later.
People not taking it seriously aren't that big of a problem since they generally won't last very long (unless they are crazy). People who are malicious can just be permbanned I guess. It's true with any ums after all.
On August 13 2010 11:53 Chairman Ray wrote: I just started playing this map and I love it!
A lot of the topics are really bad though... and judges are also kinda bad.
The quality of judges is going to be similar to the quality of the people you are debating hehe
Yeah I'm trying to think of a solution to the bad topics problem. There is an option to skip the topic but a lot of players aren't capable of identifying bad topics :/
I saw this map on the custom games and wondered why it would be fun. Most people don't have experience with timed debates and if you want a discussion I would think just forums would be a better place.
On August 13 2010 13:19 BlackMagister wrote: I saw this map on the custom games and wondered why it would be fun. Most people don't have experience with timed debates and if you want a discussion I would think just forums would be a better place.
You don't need experience with timed debates... but a lot of people are also bad at it so yeah you can't take it too seriously lol
Cross-x.com is a pretty big debating website. I don't know if cross-x.com will appreciate it much though. The type of debate that random people on sc do compared to world class debaters are two completely different entities and do not even follow similar concepts.
On August 13 2010 13:19 BlackMagister wrote: I saw this map on the custom games and wondered why it would be fun. Most people don't have experience with timed debates and if you want a discussion I would think just forums would be a better place.
Timed debates are about showing off how well you can construct an argument in a short amount of time. It revolved around quick thinking and logical deduction. Forum debates are about proving to people that you are right, and is based on research and statistics.
On August 13 2010 13:19 BlackMagister wrote: I saw this map on the custom games and wondered why it would be fun. Most people don't have experience with timed debates and if you want a discussion I would think just forums would be a better place.
Timed debates are about showing off how well you can construct an argument in a short amount of time. It revolved around quick thinking and logical deduction. Forum debates are about proving to people that you are right, and is based on research and statistics.
True, but sometimes I feel like what you said isn't true: "Forum debates are about proving to people that you are right, and is based on research and statistics"
More like.... it's about convincing people you are right using whatever means necessary!
On August 13 2010 12:46 Pyrrhuloxia wrote: Post this at cross-x.com if you haven't yet.
Er, what is cross-x.com?
Debate website... I dunno just thought they would like it and a lot of people there would have SC2. But I see it isn't your map so not really your problemo.
I played once, everyone in the game was dumb and had absolutely no idea how to differentiate between good points and dumb/repetitive ones and are swayed by arguments such as "vote for me if you like girls/boobs."
And one of said people had a ton of points and was near the top scores, which leads me to believe that's quite common.
On August 14 2010 11:34 ZapRoffo wrote: I played once, everyone in the game was dumb and had absolutely no idea how to differentiate between good points and dumb/repetitive ones and are swayed by arguments such as "vote for me if you like girls/boobs."
And one of said people had a ton of points and was near the top scores, which leads me to believe that's quite common.
Debates is a lot like sc2. It's not all about the person with the best standard play. You can cheese as well. In Debates, people will vote for whoever impressed them the most, not necessarily who had the best arguments. If one person has weak arguments, but the other person just said "vote for me if you like girls/boobs", then the other person would probably win. The key is to be entertaining, while having good substance at the same time. If the opponent is just being silly, then be funnier than them.
It might be hard to find... well, due to the horrible popularity system. Usually it stays relatively popular but the map's creator (who always hosts matches) was gone on vacation for a few days so it's be lost at the bottom of the list for a while. It'll probably get some popularity soon though.
And as far as I know, I don't think it's banned; I saw it somewhere on the list today.
This map need some synthesized voice like moon base alpha :D then it will fit the sc2 demographic. Actually interesting idea for a map, shame if it's been removed though.
I played this very actively for about a week. (Once I realized I could use the standard chat box instead of the laggy character-by-character input field provided by the game's UI, it was fun.) Then I never saw it come up on the list again. As some others have said, it would be a real shame if this map has indeed been removed.
The quality of debate varied quite a lot, and the trick to getting good rooms, I found, was to encourage people in good rounds to stick around and rejoin. Once you build up some momentum with people engaged with the game, you have fewer problems with trolls. The argumentation isn't up to the level of what you'd even get from trainee debaters in a university club (I used to be very active at a national and international level), but bad calls from peer judges are common everywhere and nothing to fret about. Even though many of the topics were frivolous, the one-minute time limit really keeps you on your toes.
I do hope we see this map again. What could possibly have led it to be removed (if that was the case)? That it actively encouraged people to remake it and boost it up the list?
On September 23 2010 20:08 Tanstaafl wrote: I played this very actively for about a week. (Once I realized I could use the standard chat box instead of the laggy character-by-character input field provided by the game's UI, it was fun.) Then I never saw it come up on the list again. As some others have said, it would be a real shame if this map has indeed been removed.
I found that people who used standard chat entry would have their messages pop up 1 second before it was the opponents' turn to talk... meaning that they lost several seconds reading the previous response before even thinking about how to formulate their own.... but I understand how you want to avoid that laggy chat entry box lol
EPT
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