EPTHaving 2 ways into a main is basically a death sentence for Protoss players. They need to be able to block off their ent if that's their build. As it stands the protoss player will get hurt pretty hardcore by any sort of ling pressure since they can't possibly wall fast enough 2 ent.
[Map] Rising Tides - Melee - Page 4
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Having 2 ways into a main is basically a death sentence for Protoss players. They need to be able to block off their ent if that's their build. As it stands the protoss player will get hurt pretty hardcore by any sort of ling pressure since they can't possibly wall fast enough 2 ent. | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
Xylon, the name is more of a metaphor for impending combat represented by the island and the actual tides. I would argue that the ground in Blistering Sands doesn't hurt your troops, so even if my water levels are static I think I'll keep my map name too.  Cyo, FarbrorAbavna pointed out that mineral patch mistake as soon as he played as well.  It's on the changelog to be fixed in the next version. The ledge behind the main was more intended for reapers. A tank can only get there if dropped, and I think a team of hydras, marines, or stalkers could deal with that pretty quickly, so I'm ok with it. What I'm more worried about is colossi, since they could retreat all the way down to the beach, be almost completely safe most of the time, and then come back up to attack whenever they like. We'll see if that's an issue too. I didn't have enough creativity initially to make the beaches a bit more interesting to look at, I'll try to think of some ideas. One thing about putting doodads underwater is the water appears very foggy on high and ultra graphics settings and you can't see to the bottom. Maybe it's just the type of water I used and that can be changed too. I'll see about blurring some textures on that patch of ground for the next version.A big thanks to you Cyoadventure for all that feedback and to anybody else who is testing the map with the editor, and thanks to everyone posting such encouraging comments.  At this rate I should be able to iron out a lot of kinks before beta returns and publish a really strong version of the map.Edit: On_Slaught, I guess I was taking a fairly large risk when I decided to split the entrances to the main and natural, but I was willing to because I think the long rush distance should give enough time to set up defenses. I'm thinking a protoss could wall at the main ramp and have some zealots ready to defend the natural ramp by the time he stationed a probe at the Xel'Naga tower to watch for backdoors. We'll see what happens after more testing. Madkipz, thanks for the tip. I'm driving my little sister to the beach today so I'll get on that when I get back. | ||
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Madkipz
Norway1643 Posts
map looks great, except that the backdoor ramps feel VERY big I had to use two supply depoes and two raxxes to wall it off entirely, same with the other ramp. not that i dont like it, because it adds incentive to not wall off at all. It just dosnt work outside of protoss warping in 4 pylons and a gateway just for ONE entrace xD. oh yea and that mineral bug probably exists somewhere within the other expansions as well, i will be checking for it next game. Also, the geysers are high yield yet there are pairs of vespene for every expansion. What do you wish to accomplish with this and why did you make them high yield? | ||
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zedrOne
France471 Posts
you need more texture work. far to empty, you see tiling at every level. i like the layout, maybe add more doodoads like some trees, LOS blocker and of course, some fish ! | ||
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FabledIntegral
United States9232 Posts
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Logo
United States7542 Posts
On June 16 2010 06:03 FabledIntegral wrote: Asthetically pleasing, but like every other map people seem to make it's filled with unnecessary chokes and too much unused space at the edges. There really isn't that much unused space... When you account for the map boundaries (vs the edge of what is shown in the screenshot) there's not much space. The most unused air space is around the island expos, but you want that. | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
ZedrOne, if you look quite carefully there are fish swimming around the sunken command center and a shark off the northeast beach. I'll add more fish in the next version and I have some ideas for beach doodads that won't have footprints. | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
If anybody has more tweaks to suggest, that would really help me kill some time and try to forget about my awesome new headset. Thanks! + Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/VideoSnapshot-1.jpg?t=1277137077) | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
Here I'll illustrate and explain the major changes. Center map:+ Show Spoiler + v1.0+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/mid10.jpg?t=1277911577) ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/midbefore.jpg?t=1277911623) v1.2![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/midafter.jpg?t=1277911687) The path was widened and I reduced the high ground area to curtail the power of terran turtling and make it easier for zerg armies to move through. Main entrances:+ Show Spoiler + v1.1 ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/mainentrancebefore.jpg?t=1277912273) v1.2![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/mainentranceafter.jpg?t=1277912304) It didn't seem very sensible to have two chokes leading to each grassy high ground area in the middle of the map, so I increased the width of the outer ramps to facilitate troop movement. The new angle and smaller width of the main ramp should make it easier to defend. It can be walled off by a single barracks with an addon and one supply depot as well as with a gateway, a pylon, and a zealot. 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock expansions:+ Show Spoiler + v1.1 ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/hillexpobefore.jpg?t=1277912945) v1.2![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/hillexpoafter.jpg?t=1277912964) I widened the ramps to the blue mineral beach expansions because there was no need for them to be so skinny, and I increased the high ground area at the expansions to allow a more reasonable amount of space to build on. Island expansions:+ Show Spoiler + v1.1 ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/islandbefore.jpg?t=1277913514) v1.2![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/islandafter.jpg?t=1277913594) If zerg is still having trouble with the middle of the map, the newly wide paths to the naturals should play to their strengths. And by expanding the beach there, the island expansions needed to be pushed back, which greatly decreased the huge uncontested airspace at those two corners of the map. Beach edges:+ Show Spoiler + v1.1 ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/beachbefore.jpg?t=1277914074) v1.2![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/beachafter.jpg?t=1277914158) This change is purely cosmetic, but I felt like it was pretty necessary since I've never been to a beach that immediately dropped off nine feet. There is a layer of no pathing a few feet beyond the water edge, so the playable area hasn't changed. My hope is that since now the beaches extend regularly, the places on the beach that end in cliffs will look like ocean trenches. I'd be really happy to read any feedback on the new version. Hopefully if there are any glaring flaws I can fix them quickly before beta returns so I can publish a competent version right away. My main concern is whether or not it is possible to build defenses at the two entrances to the main quickly enough to be able to confidently defend rushes. The rush distance is long, but I'm still antsy about that, so any feedback about that issue would be especially appreciated. Thanks again! | ||
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Pandonetho
Canada321 Posts
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
On July 01 2010 02:06 Pandonetho wrote: You know what would really make this map awesome? To make the water rise (that's initially what I thought you did with the map). I don't think you can add trigger in a melee map (without making it custom). The map looks awesome, and the changes look good but it still needs to be tested online. | ||
Pholon
Netherlands6142 Posts
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
The naturals have no nearby cliffs for harassment options You might to consider adding those. | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
Actually my goal was to make a handful of slight adjustments to make them about the same difficulty to control, relative to each other, so that you'd have to decide which would be your third and which would be your fourth. The high ground expansion has the obvious advantage of the high ground, and now it has a little more room to build defenses. The low ground expansion already has tons of space to build defenses and is closer to your main if you're making air units to defend, so I feel like they're probably on pretty even footing now. You may even decide to completely wall off your main entrance and expand to your opponent's high ground expansion from your natural for your third. You may be feeling a little ballsy and note that the high yield expansion is a little closer to your main than the hill and blue mineral beach expansions, and take that as your third instead. If you can get into the main, you have a long cliff line from which to harass the natural. I think reapers could go pretty nuts there, actually. Another thing to consider would be using the area behind the los blockers as a staging ground for drops on the natural. And I would say that even if the naturals do prove hard to harass, they should still be easier to attack than the average natural since they don't share an entrance with the mains. | ||
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Antares777
United States1971 Posts
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
+ Show Spoiler + ![[image loading]](http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z144/harryspanner/newnatural.jpg?t=1278094960) I think it might play a little like the Desert Oasis natural, except the second entrance to the natural is a small ramp instead of a very wide choke. What do you guys think? | ||
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Andavari
Egypt18 Posts
Thats my input gl with your map  | ||
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ionlyplayPROtoss
Canada573 Posts
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RisingTide
Australia769 Posts
On June 15 2010 00:48 FrozenArbiter wrote: Please tell me the water will actually rise and it will be an island map half the time :D!?!? I like this idea. Unfortunately units can move around underwater if there is land for them to move on, so some other trigger that destroys units or something would be necessary. I had on early on in the beta about making a map where you destroy a destructible rock that acts as a damn and floods a portion of the map, narrowing a choke or something. This would work sort of similarly. Also, dunno why, but I really like the name of this map.... | ||
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Tazza
Korea (South)1678 Posts
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