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8748 Posts
On June 16 2010 08:17 dw wrote:
Finally beat it on impossible as P. I used a different strategy than Nony, as his is harder to pull off than mine.
I did 1 zealot to hold the reapers using building placement to block them from killing any probes.
I then made 2 robo's, 1 warp prism, then only immortal. eventually i get a support bay and shuttle speed. after the AI's final drop I load up and go straight for the CC.
Finished with 1 second left.
Props to Ouga for doing it as zerg.
Yeah that'd (probably) lose to cloaked banshees. They're pretty rare though. I think I only encountered them twice
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On June 16 2010 08:30 Liquid`NonY wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 08:17 dw wrote:
I did 1 zealot to hold the reapers using building placement to block them from killing any probes.
I then made 2 robo's, 1 warp prism, then only immortal. eventually i get a support bay and shuttle speed. after the AI's final drop I load up and go straight for the CC.
Finished with 1 second left.
Yeah that'd (probably) lose to cloaked banshees. They're pretty rare though. I think I only encountered them twice
Actually IMO cloak banshees are sort of easiest ones to handle - they come so late (like 1:30 left) that you can just ignore them if your technique is to do this with drops or banshees. I had banshees coming on my "kill", but just ignored them and went for the drop instead. I might have had more issues if it was MM drop actually, since 3-3 ups really make them tough to kill when there's 2 medics and they manage to stand next to wall so lings alone can't beat them in almost any numbers. I feel these can't be completely ignored though, since tank drops, late thor drop and mm drops all come at like 02-03min left.
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On June 16 2010 07:59 AWEadam wrote:
Would you be willing to share what your basic strategy/end unit composition was?
I'd throw rep since it'd be better than 1000 words, but suppose you can't view replays of this map? At least says "unable to load map" or something to me when I try.
But I can say pretty accurate BO and strat since I feel I tweaked the bo to pretty close to perfection until 4:30 push. Skip 4/5 of incoming jizz if you don't care about early game. BANEDROP IS THE KEY
15pool, 16hat
15->18 6lings, they spawn 1-3s before reapers are in. I probably could've slammed pool better, I always put it right next to hat on its right. Thus reapers usually came from left side, and I did my best to do some surround on them. About 50% of the time I got them bugged and lost 0 drones, but if even one got thru, it was usually 2-4 dead, never more tho.
While lings popped, did 2 gas, queen, cancelled other gas, 19/18 over. New queen from same hat when first is up.
Then just drones until 36/36. @ about 22-25/28 I did 2nd gas, @ 26-28/28 evo chamber.
First 100 gas to lair, 2nd 100 gas to +1 melee. Make sure to have 2nd gas instantly mining gas. You want to make sure you have the 200/200 available when lair finishes, and start droptech instantly, to have decent timing window to do the executor drops. I start my droptech @ 7:10 left.
After droptech, next gas to lingspeed, and then finally to overspeed. Timings are sick precise, I actually have +1 and lingspeed ready about 5sec prior to mm push/thor drop.
From 36/36 I'll do overs til x/68, and purelings. I have those 6 lings from prior, so I'll end up having (68-33)*2=70 lings if it goes perfectly. 20 of them are enough for the thor, I pick first ones there. I also have one lingscout so I know exactly when MM come, at the maxrange possible. Suppose ovie could do it too.
So the mm push is just countered by surrounding him with those ~40-50 lings. Usually I have some lings still popping when push comes. I'm pretty sure you can't push them back with lings alone without that +1, that medic alone keeps them up too long since lings would do 2dmg instead of 3 to 3armor mm. Also to be noticed, droptech is ready just before push comes so preferably one exe should've been saved at least when push is countered.
After that, it's around 4:00 to do the rest. I like to keep 5 ovies patrolling on top of executor spawn, to make him clickable asap to use less time in making him go into ovie. Last executor in theory could be done with before 1:00 left, which gives decent time to do the last attack.
I kinda feel Z has no good counter to beat those 3-3 upped units straight up, or well I just chose to try do it with banes. For like 20 tries I thought drop wasn't possible due to vikings, but hell ovies have so much hp that if you bring all your 15-20 ovies enough will survive. After all 20 banes is enough to take down the CC. I make the banenest @ 68/68, and just try to load them to make the drop from left side of the map when there's like 1:00 left and as many banes as possible, I had about 40 on successful try. In theory ofc those 20 would be enough, but it's hard to predict what ovies will go down to their antiair  You don't really need much extra defense after the push/thor have been taken out.
I believe with good control you could do this without dropping, but still with banes. That just requires tons of lings, all drones and greatly sharing them among the field while banetrain goes straight to CC. Just sucks that few tank hits on banes can fail the whole try
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8748 Posts
On June 16 2010 19:51 Ouga wrote:Show nested quote +On June 16 2010 08:30 Liquid`NonY wrote:On June 16 2010 08:17 dw wrote:
I did 1 zealot to hold the reapers using building placement to block them from killing any probes.
I then made 2 robo's, 1 warp prism, then only immortal. eventually i get a support bay and shuttle speed. after the AI's final drop I load up and go straight for the CC.
Finished with 1 second left.
Yeah that'd (probably) lose to cloaked banshees. They're pretty rare though. I think I only encountered them twice Actually IMO cloak banshees are sort of easiest ones to handle - they come so late (like 1:30 left) that you can just ignore them if your technique is to do this with drops or banshees. I had banshees coming on my "kill", but just ignored them and went for the drop instead. I might have had more issues if it was MM drop actually, since 3-3 ups really make them tough to kill when there's 2 medics and they manage to stand next to wall so lings alone can't beat them in almost any numbers. I feel these can't be completely ignored though, since tank drops, late thor drop and mm drops all come at like 02-03min left.
Hmm that's weird that they came that late. Maybe a bug? I never saw them that late.
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Hmm that's weird that they came that late. Maybe a bug? I never saw them that late.
The MM push comes @ 4:30, and has been handled with at like 4:00 right? I don't think any of the last harrasses absolutely have to be dealt with if they come after that? Even the 2nd thor drop, which probably comes out fastest, probably is there at 2:30-3:00 or so? As zerg I'd prolly be able to just transfer drones to expo to overcome this and thor would just shoot down lair and and gases. Other options are nuke (megarare), banshees (rare), mm drop and tank drop, but they don't come too early either. Seeing I pretty much could survive without income from last 2:00, I don't think handling them is absolutely necessary. Still worth taking down ofc, but imo playing expecting banshees costs too much compared to how often they come / how it's still possible to survive without antiair when they do. Ofc didn't play this as T/P to know is the income from <2:00 absolutely vital - would think banshee strat also relies mainly on units produced prior to 2:00. Not to mention, banshee strat definately has so much minerals that can afford to make towers, and I guess making obs with few stalk/sentries isn't much of a defense either. I didn't feel like making 2 spores made much sense against harrass that would only come 1/10 games.
I suppose thusfar only strat that involves straight up fight is yours, and might very well be that no one has thought of way to do working push as T/Z. I don't think any of the drop/air strats need resources from the last 1:30, since only toss can warp in last sec units - my drop can't wait to get the last reinforcements in.
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I finally managed to beat hard with Toss
Now gogo impossible
Banshees are really rare indeed ... i got them only 1-2 times.
@ time mine always came @ 3min left or so.
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United Arab Emirates492 Posts
Can we get this map on XX Impossible for people like Nony :D.
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Banshees are really rare indeed ... i got them only 1-2 times.
@ time mine always came @ 3min left or so.
That's different though, imo all waves come faster in "easier" modes. In that aspect impossible isn't all that bad Difficulty in impossible is that 2 waves come at same time @ 4:30 or so, but that automatically delays the 3rd wave a bit imo. In hard I guess MMM comes more like at 6:30 or even sooner? I know I always made spores on hard, because they felt like coming too fast to be ignored.
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Finally finished hard level.
Cloacked banshees are too strong, I just give up when they come, we need too many things to counter them which are not needed for the other drops (or nuke ).
By the way I can't look at my replays, I want to check my apms ! :/ Is there a way to do it (not using map editor) ?
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I can't beat this on hard for the life of me, I'm sure I could do it if I practiced a build that works well for this specific situation, it just seems absurd.
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poor, poor proberto 
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United States1659 Posts
On June 17 2010 02:40 Gunman_csz wrote:
Can we get this map on XX Impossible for people like Nony :D.
Impossible still has to be beatable (well, I guess they could make it unbeatable, but that wouldn't be much fun after a while).
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Noob question... how do you select a peon before creating any batiment ?
Playing this map, I saw that I lost a huge amount of time selecting a single probe from the mineral lines. Here is how I did it :
- centering screen on the main batiment (5 5, as I put a shorcut to it in 5)
- Drawing a little rectangle, hoping to get only one probe.
But sometimes I got 2 probes at once, or I had to wait for a probe to go in my rectangle and then I loose the runnig probe .
So my solution was to assign a shortcut to a mining probe (I used 2), in order not to loose any time selecting it. But is it viable on a real game, when you have to keep 1 and 2 for your armies ?
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On June 20 2010 21:41 Heziva wrote:Noob question... how do you select a peon before creating any batiment ? Playing this map, I saw that I lost a huge amount of time selecting a single probe from the mineral lines. Here is how I did it : - centering screen on the main batiment (5 5, as I put a shorcut to it in 5) - Drawing a little rectangle, hoping to get only one probe. But sometimes I got 2 probes at once, or I had to wait for a probe to go in my rectangle and then I loose the runnig probe .
As Inori said you'll get better at it with practice. Keep in mind that if you select two probes and issue an order to build something to both only one will go. So when you select more than one probe by mistake it's always better in terms of speed to order both to build (since only one will go) rather than deselecting one or something.
So my solution was to assign a shortcut to a mining probe (I used 2), in order not to loose any time selecting it. But is it viable on a real game, when you have to keep 1 and 2 for your armies ?
Why not use 3? ^^
Many good players used to have a 'builder' probe hotkeyed in Bw, if it suits you I don't see why not do it in sc2.
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Bosnia-Herzegovina439 Posts
On June 20 2010 21:41 Heziva wrote:
So my solution was to assign a shortcut to a mining probe (I used 2), in order not to loose any time selecting it. But is it viable on a real game, when you have to keep 1 and 2 for your armies ?
Hotkeys are there so you can use them in whatever way you can find it helpful. In this case you should definitely hotkey the running probe and one working probe.
It's nice have a system of hotkeying buildings and units but it's also nice to be flexible and to alternate hotkeys and use different schemes.
It's almost irrelevant what keys you use for what you need. Sure it's better to use some keys that you'll easier find without looking but if you get used to some key it doesn't matter if the PROs use some other because you have the same result.
And one more thing, hotkeys are about control. When you need a full control over something hotkey it. Dumb example : say you are a noob, and the only key you are able to press without totally losing yourself is 1. When you scout keep your scouting probe on 1. If you have some army and want to attack get your army on 1. You made your warp prism and want to drop something get your warp prism on 1. This is exaggerated scenario but i hope you get my point.
Obviously in hotkey trainer you have several simultaniously equally important tasks so you need 5-7 hotkeys.
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I don't know if this has been said already, but in version 0.93 - the only one I've played so far - there's a bug with Tassadar: if you have overlords hanging above his spawn area, he will stay neutral so you can't pick him up. You have to fly away with your overlords and return and only then he will say his "Khassar de templari" so you can pick him up. Pretty confusing and frustrating in the midst of total chaos.
But that's just a detail. Overall this map is great, well balanced, and - although a little frustrating at times - it's fun! Good job, keep it up!
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On June 29 2010 05:16 Migi wrote:
I don't know if this has been said already, but in version 0.93 - the only one I've played so far - there's a bug with Tassadar: if you have overlords hanging above his spawn area, he will stay neutral so you can't pick him up. You have to fly away with your overlords and return and only then he will say his "Khassar de templari" so you can pick him up. Pretty confusing and frustrating in the midst of total chaos.
I haven't messed around with it, but that could be a game bug rather than a map bug. If a new unit spawns next to one of your units, it can't be "acquired" by it until you move out and back into capture range.
The way to get around this is to place your first overlord on a patrol over tassadar (e.g., back and forth across tassadar's circle) and place subsequent overlords off to the side. The patrolling overlord will recapture fresh tassadars as they respawn.
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On June 29 2010 05:16 Migi wrote:
I don't know if this has been said already, but in version 0.93 - the only one I've played so far - there's a bug with Tassadar: if you have overlords hanging above his spawn area, he will stay neutral so you can't pick him up. You have to fly away with your overlords and return and only then he will say his "Khassar de templari" so you can pick him up. Pretty confusing and frustrating in the midst of total chaos.
A bug or not, I overcame it by putting all ovies on patrol above that spot. A bit to side and back to spawnpoint, enough to make him go allied from neutral. Also ovie moves a bit towards beacon after you make npc go into ovie due to patrolling. Thus I'd like to think I countered the bug by making my life easier
edit: meh, 5h idle window and somehow I was beat in solving the prob :p
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EPT
