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United States12607 Posts
On May 27 2009 23:53 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 21:06 puLs.ReADy wrote:
putting jaedong on 4th and zero before him is more than ridiculous. This is what happens when you want to receive credit for a landmark change in the PR (Putting Jaedong as not the first zerg in the PR since whatever date)
Yep, definitely a ploy to make myself universally loved. Just read through this thread to see how popular ranking Jaedong below ZerO made me! People can't get enough!! "Praise" is absoutely the word I would use to characterize the response to this PR.
...all according to plan.
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On May 27 2009 23:53 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 21:06 puLs.ReADy wrote:
putting jaedong on 4th and zero before him is more than ridiculous. This is what happens when you want to receive credit for a landmark change in the PR (Putting Jaedong as not the first zerg in the PR since whatever date)
I wish I could ban.
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On May 28 2009 05:55 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 23:53 AzureEye wrote:On May 27 2009 21:06 puLs.ReADy wrote:
putting jaedong on 4th and zero before him is more than ridiculous. This is what happens when you want to receive credit for a landmark change in the PR (Putting Jaedong as not the first zerg in the PR since whatever date) I wish I could ban.
Chill. I was only half serious
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On May 28 2009 07:49 AzureEye wrote:Show nested quote +On May 28 2009 05:55 fanatacist wrote:On May 27 2009 23:53 AzureEye wrote:On May 27 2009 21:06 puLs.ReADy wrote:
putting jaedong on 4th and zero before him is more than ridiculous. This is what happens when you want to receive credit for a landmark change in the PR (Putting Jaedong as not the first zerg in the PR since whatever date) I wish I could ban. Chill. I was only half serious
sounds like this power rank.
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On May 28 2009 05:48 JWD wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2009 23:53 AzureEye wrote:On May 27 2009 21:06 puLs.ReADy wrote:
putting jaedong on 4th and zero before him is more than ridiculous. This is what happens when you want to receive credit for a landmark change in the PR (Putting Jaedong as not the first zerg in the PR since whatever date) Yep, definitely a ploy to make myself universally loved. Just read through this thread to see how popular ranking Jaedong below ZerO made me! People can't get enough!! "Praise" is absoutely the word I would use to characterize the response to this PR.
Because it was just so very, very wrong. <3
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failzerg is epicly awesome
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On May 15 2009 13:48 JWD wrote:
OK, let me try to address what appear to be the major complaints thus far:
1) "JD isn't high enough / JD should be below ZerO"
I think this issue is mostly one of interpretation of what the Power Rank means, precisely. I wrote this Power Rank as a ranking of the last month's most powerful gamers, and that is all. Obviously hypothesizing about who could beat who is a useful check for deciding where to rank players, but I don't think it should be the prime determinant of rank - performance over the last month of SC play should come first (that means "JD won the OSL" isn't so valid!).
And in this area, I think ZerO, Bisu, and Fantasy are all just a cut above Jaedong. Plexa, I don't see how you can be so sure JD would beat Fantasy, for example, on "any given day of the week" considering they are 3-3 in recent meetings and Fantasy was especially impressive in their most recent. And yes JD's losses have been few and far between (and he definitely picked up his play towards the end of this PR period) but ZerO has an even better record while facing a decidedly more difficult set of opponents (Calm, Luxury, Kal3x, Yarnc, Leta, Bisu). Another key point that I think elevates ZerO above JD for this month is that he's beginning to rival Jaedong in ZvZ skill as well (what big Zerg didn't ZerO thrash over the past month?? Only JD) - he simply had a better month in terms of ZvZ play.
Another aspect of JD's play to consider is performance in clutch matches for OZ: his losses to Fantasy and Movie in PL weren't just uncharacteristic, they probably cost Hwaseung its matches against T1 and CJ - the two teams with which OZ is really competing at the top of the PL rankings right now. Bisu, Fantasy, and ZerO have, for the most part, been rock solid in their biggest PL matches (ZerO's fresh loss to Leta in the ace of Hite-WJ comes to mind, but remember he beat Yarnc earlier in the match to give WJ a shot at the 5set in the first place).
2) Calm missing from CBNC
Actually, this is my bad. Calm definitely deserves to be in CBNC. I had this eerie feeling I was forgetting someone, and he's it for sure. However, I did evaluate Calm for the 10-spot and found he came up short... (read on!!)
3) Thezerg in 10th
When Power Ranking, wins and losses shouldn't all be given equal weight - even if they're between the same players. Much has to do with the context or significance of those wins: are they in high-pressure situations? Are they contributing to some crucial trend in SC right now - like a new strategy's emergence, a SL title run, or a great PL streak?
The primary reason I gave Thezerg the nod over a slew of other players with admittedly similar records is that his recent performance reflects a major turnaround not only in his individual skill, but the strength of his entire team. T1's remarkable dominance in R4 of PL (no this is not blind fandom, I mean for fuck's sake SK Telecom T1 is in SECOND PLACE in Fantasy PL at the moment) would simply not have been possible without Thezerg, and that means that his wins over the past month mean just that much more than those of say, Calm or by.great.
by.great does deserve credit for taking out Bisu and free with his innovative strat on Neo Medusa, but check out his other recent opponents: they're all powderpuffs. Not to mention great is sitting on a 3-game losing streak and he dropped out of GOM to ZergBong. ZergBong!!
Calm has a great record over the past month and he does deserve props for being alive in MST (though that may only be because his group isn't complete yet), but he's faced a similarly weak host of opponents. Young2x, RorO, Anytime, MVP, oDin, go.go2x, Tempest?? These are not players we should be impressed to see Calm beat. The nail in Calm's coffin for this PR was his absolutely pathetic performance against Bisu in MST...damn was that sad to watch.
Thezerg, on the other hand, has dealt with JangBi, HiyA, GoRush (yeah, GoRush is decent these days, especially in ZvZ on Battle Royal), and, most significantly in my mind, gave Leta a real series in the OSL Ro36. Yes he ended up getting embarrassed by wraith play, but do you honestly think Calm or by.great would have even taken a game from Leta? I'm a skeptic.
you talk as if calm vs leta would be a 2-0 pummeling, but like you said for casy, you can't predict or give credit to certain players before the game is played. your logic is horrendous, and just because bisu/fantasy are good doesn't equate to failzergs status going up. calm > thezerg, just an insult to PR adding failzerg to the rankings above more qualified players. at least when fakesteve adds sea, he is actually A GOOD PLAYER.
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Jaedong 9-1 last 10. I'd love to see another "JD is slumping" and him at like 5th place in PR ^_^
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United States11393 Posts
On May 31 2009 04:21 Shikyo wrote:
Jaedong 9-1 last 10. I'd love to see another "JD is slumping" and him at like 5th place in PR ^_^
Of course Jaedong is slumping.
He lost a game.
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Sure it was in a series that he eventually won but he lost *ONE*, count it, one game. No Bonjwa can lose one game!
Disgraceful, JD. I expect TheZerg to take his place as top zerg now.
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On May 26 2009 18:50 raga4ka wrote:
1.Jaedong/Bisu
2.
3.Flash/Leta/Fantasy
4.
5.
6.Effort
7.Skyhigh
8.Stork
9.JangBi
10.Kwanro/Calm maybe
Yeah I agree, something along those lines would be cool.
Not putting too much thought into it I would probably go:
1.Jaedong - 10-1 this month; the game he lost didn't even matter as he came back 2-1.
2.Bisu - 7-1 this month; losing the mirror match to Violet drops him just below JD imo.
3.Effort - A whopping 14-2 this month, only losing to Bisu and Yarnc. Including a dominating 2-0, 2-0 in his OSL campaign. Since his disappointing winners league performances; this dude is on a rich vein of form.
4. Flash - Lots of tough games this month, he did beat Fantasy and Skyhigh this month so I would struggle to place him lower.
5. Leta - 7-3 this week. Recently he looks like he's got some of his confidence back.
6. Skyhigh -
7.Kwanro - The notion of Kwanrolled! appears in many recent threads. Dominated in individual leagues this month. Gom... check, OSL...check, MSL...check
Teach them well, Savior does.
8.Fantasy - losses to calm, hogil and pure unfortunately.
9.JangBi - This master of lightning probably deserves to be higher.. but when you lose mirror games to Jaehoon and YoonJoong it's hard to make a case.
10.Stork/Iris/TheZerg
Edit: Dam I forgot about Zero, he slots in somewhere.
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why is iris in tenth. Did he play any games recently?
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He's been doing well in Gom and is still 8th in ELO for what it's worth. He's not getting near as much time in PL as Skyhigh though.
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I wouldn't even place thezerg in CBNC for next month.
I wouldn't have placed him in CBNC this month either but thats just me...
he's a "bad" zergplayer..
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On May 31 2009 07:02 Solidus_315 wrote:
why is iris in tenth. Did he play any games recently?
Yeah he won all his Gom games and he beat Leta earlier this month. His also won his MSL survivor game.
On May 31 2009 09:00 StylishVODs wrote:
I wouldn't even place thezerg in CBNC for next month.
he's a "bad" zergplayer..
You're right, I don't know why I thought he could go 10th.
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I think Bisu should be #1, Jaedong #2.
Bisu lost to Violet, Jaedong lost to jjonga. I mean, who the hell is jjonga, and how did he beat Jaedong on Medusa (a Z>P map)? Advantage Bisu, IMO.
Other than that, they are more or less equal. The only other real difference between the two, is Jaedong's team is playing in GOM, and Bisu's team isn't.
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On May 31 2009 14:26 Sentenal wrote:
I think Bisu should be #1, Jaedong #2.
Bisu lost to Violet, Jaedong lost to jjonga. I mean, who the hell is jjonga, and how did he beat Jaedong on Medusa (a Z>P map)? Advantage Bisu, IMO.
Other than that, they are more or less equal. The only other real difference between the two, is Jaedong's team is playing in GOM, and Bisu's team isn't.
Medusa Zerg>Toss map? Since when? Count the total number of wins. The factor that made Medusa "hard" (LOL) for protoss was the proxy hatch option, now it is removed.
It's 47-46 total, including the proxy hatch wins....
I said this already, JD dropping the first game in a series wont make me even consider he's slipping, even if the player he lost to is a noname. It had zero impact on the future. While Bisu's loss meant SKT lost to thier nemesis. OFC Violet >> Jjonga but still, this doesnt mean anything, as long as JD beat Jjonga after all. Ofc that's just me. Placing Bisu first is reasonable.
and btw why is everyone putting FLash 3rd/4th? Because he won 2 TvTs?
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The placement of #1 is 100% subjective at this point. We'll need to see more games.
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On May 31 2009 15:02 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2009 14:26 Sentenal wrote:
I think Bisu should be #1, Jaedong #2.
Bisu lost to Violet, Jaedong lost to jjonga. I mean, who the hell is jjonga, and how did he beat Jaedong on Medusa (a Z>P map)? Advantage Bisu, IMO.
Other than that, they are more or less equal. The only other real difference between the two, is Jaedong's team is playing in GOM, and Bisu's team isn't. Medusa Zerg>Toss map? Since when? Count the total number of wins. The factor that made Medusa "hard" (LOL) for protoss was the proxy hatch option, now it is removed. It's 47-46 total, including the proxy hatch wins.... I said this already, JD dropping the first game in a series wont make me even consider he's slipping, even if the player he lost to is a noname. It had zero impact on the future. While Bisu's loss meant SKT lost to thier nemesis. OFC Violet >> Jjonga but still, this doesnt mean anything, as long as JD beat Jjonga after all. Ofc that's just me. Placing Bisu first is reasonable. and btw why is everyone putting FLash 3rd/4th? Because he won 2 TvTs?
http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/202_Neo_Medusa
ZvP: 16-9 (64%)
Medusa is considered a Z>P map because of the breaking down the back door->doom drop strategy, that is very hard to stop. Proxy-hatch shit is imba too, but not the main reason.
I also think dismissing Jaedong's loss, because he ended up winning the series, is a flawed way of looking at things, but I've already talked alot about that earlier in this thread anyway (with Jaedong dropping a game in a previous series lolol). A loss is a loss, and losing to jjonga on Medusa is a big "WTF" in my eyes when you are Jaedong.
Also note I didn't say Jaedong was slumping, or slipping. Saying he should go from #4 to a close #2 is saying that I think he is still one of the best in the world, and is playing like it. Just that I think Bisu is playing slightly better.
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On May 31 2009 15:23 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On May 31 2009 15:02 Geo.Rion wrote:On May 31 2009 14:26 Sentenal wrote:
I think Bisu should be #1, Jaedong #2.
Bisu lost to Violet, Jaedong lost to jjonga. I mean, who the hell is jjonga, and how did he beat Jaedong on Medusa (a Z>P map)? Advantage Bisu, IMO.
Other than that, they are more or less equal. The only other real difference between the two, is Jaedong's team is playing in GOM, and Bisu's team isn't. Medusa Zerg>Toss map? Since when? Count the total number of wins. The factor that made Medusa "hard" (LOL) for protoss was the proxy hatch option, now it is removed. It's 47-46 total, including the proxy hatch wins.... I said this already, JD dropping the first game in a series wont make me even consider he's slipping, even if the player he lost to is a noname. It had zero impact on the future. While Bisu's loss meant SKT lost to thier nemesis. OFC Violet >> Jjonga but still, this doesnt mean anything, as long as JD beat Jjonga after all. Ofc that's just me. Placing Bisu first is reasonable. and btw why is everyone putting FLash 3rd/4th? Because he won 2 TvTs? http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/maps/202_Neo_MedusaZvP: 16-9 (64%) Medusa is considered a Z>P map because of the breaking down the back door->doom drop strategy, that is very hard to stop. Proxy-hatch shit is imba too, but not the main reason. I also think dismissing Jaedong's loss, because he ended up winning the series, is a flawed way of looking at things, but I've already talked alot about that earlier in this thread anyway (with Jaedong dropping a game in a previous series lolol). A loss is a loss, and losing to jjonga on Medusa is a big "WTF" in my eyes when you are Jaedong. Also note I didn't say Jaedong was slumping, or slipping. Saying he should go from #4 to a close #2 is saying that I think he is still one of the best in the world, and is playing like it. Just that I think Bisu is playing slightly better.
PvZ wise Medusa and Neo Medusa are the SAME, only deviation being the proxy hatchery option which now IS REMOWED. artosis spoke about how insignificant losing one game in a series is, and style depndent also, listen that, i wont try to explain anything, but to come up with the Neo Medusa stat and trying to look smart by giving map-analysis is just pathetic. It's like you take the first 30 games from destination (say at that point Destination was updated to Neo destination and the mapmakers changed sg which concerns only TvP) and say, well Destination is fucking imba 64% for toss, because they can easely turtle and storm the bridges, and hydra breaks are so hard... And if you look on the Destination all-time stat is 50%, perfectly balanced.
There are periods when one race is owning the other for a while, than they figure out sg and start to own and so on and so fort. You dont have to blame the map always
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EPT
