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On May 19 2009 15:19 Avidkeystamper wrote:
It doesn't need a definition, each writer defines it their own way. FS's PRs were about the most powerful player at the moment.
But you see it doesn't make sense to make a ranking just to measure one month's results , especially for entertainment value (which PR is) when ranking and debating about the strongest overall players is so much more subjective and fun.
I say JWD made a mistake this month. He failed to consider what the majority of TL (including Etter, FakeSteve, OneOther, and Manifesto) already understand PR to be. Why would you rank specifically one month when its more interesting in almost every way to rank the better player overall?
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These rankings are epic fail. KeSPA is obviously deserving of #1 on PR. Look at this: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=93583
KeSPA is a veritable fucking force. Half of its matches are in the past two months and it won all of them so thoroughly that they had to change the rules. CHANGE THE RULES. 7 victories in 2 months including wins over Leta, Luxury and GoRush.
Fuck dude. You badly underestimate the power there. KeSPA is a clear cut above the best, let alone the rest.
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On May 19 2009 17:11 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 04:45 fanatacist wrote:On May 19 2009 03:09 Geo.Rion wrote:On May 19 2009 02:54 fanatacist wrote:
And more assholes come here to post that as if rubbing it in his face, even though he took the time to write the rank and he tried to explain it throughout the threads. God damn.
Also, don't forget Sea[Shield] #1. that was obviously a joke... ? You're obviously a joke... + Show Spoiler +
Transmit my sincere condolences to your parents...
Read above: I thought you were talking about my post.
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On May 19 2009 19:28 fanatacist wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 17:11 Geo.Rion wrote:On May 19 2009 04:45 fanatacist wrote:On May 19 2009 03:09 Geo.Rion wrote:On May 19 2009 02:54 fanatacist wrote:
And more assholes come here to post that as if rubbing it in his face, even though he took the time to write the rank and he tried to explain it throughout the threads. God damn.
Also, don't forget Sea[Shield] #1. that was obviously a joke... ? You're obviously a joke... + Show Spoiler +
Transmit my sincere condolences to your parents...
Read above: I thought you were talking about my post.
hmm, okey than.
I guess we should pay more attention while reading
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I personally think this PR is the best in the long time solely based on the criteria that it's run up 22 pages of controversy in about a week. Seriously, if the PR just makes everybody go "meh, gj FS" (or whoever), what's the point?
That said, Zero doesn't belong in the May PR, so I'll grant him his moment of glory for now.
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Calgary26003 Posts
JWD has said what the Power Rank means. There's no value in discussing it because he's already said it.
Edit: So by all means keep making polls, but it doesn't affect anything.
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So much anger over some Power rank...
Great read...
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Putting Jaedong as 4th behind especially Zero after going 8-2 last 10 just after winning the OSL doesn't make sense. JWD doesn't have enough objective judgement to make these kinds of PR's, I have no idea how he even got to make one in the first place. He just seems like a fanboy, overrating certain players(namely SKT, and watch the SKT vs eSTRO thread for something more about this), and underrating others(Hwaseung, CJ come to mind) for no reason other than his fanboyism.
Objective judgement is required for the PR, and he certainly lacks it, as I think has been shown time and time again. But if this is now the trend for the PR's, hey, how about we have Realpenguin make the next PR? I'm sure that's going to be accurate.
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or how bout artosis. you wont find anyone but a terran on the top 10
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United States12607 Posts
On May 20 2009 01:40 Shikyo wrote:
JWD doesn't have enough objective judgement to make these kinds of PR's, I have no idea how he even got to make one in the first place. He just seems like a fanboy, overrating certain players(namely SKT, and watch the SKT vs eSTRO thread for something more about this), and underrating others(Hwaseung, CJ come to mind) for no reason other than his fanboyism.
Objective judgement is required for the PR, and he certainly lacks it, as I think has been shown time and time again. But if this is now the trend for the PR's, hey, how about we have Realpenguin make the next PR? I'm sure that's going to be accurate.
You're ignoring the wealth of objective information (facts) I've used to back up my rank. Suppose for a moment I was too biased to produce an objectively defensible PR (which seems to be your contention) - wouldn't it be super easy for you to demonstrate that my PR was obviously the result of bias as opposed to careful thought and consideration? Please lay out your argument...so far you've done nothing but attack my integrity.
And what, I can't even cheer for anyone in LR threads anymore? I find it hilarious that you're pointing people to other threads here to prove that I like SK Telecom T1...their logo is in my fucking signature.
How can you even suggest I "underrated" CJ? Jeebus, they have the 6th and 7th slot in the rank. What other CJ players are near PR-worthy?
PS: re: "I have no idea how he even got to make one in the first place", actually I have FakeSteve locked up in my basement right now. I made him publish my rank at gunpoint. Then I went and masturbated at my shrine to Bisu, Fantasy, and Thezerg.
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I for one think the power rank is just fine. Zero over Jaedong was questionable, sure, but it gives people something to talk about. I think great should probably have not been dismissed on the basis of his team, especially since Samsung Khan really wasn't doing that badly, either.
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United States3824 Posts
Sucktasticism is the best word I have ever seen. Kudos
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I like. As for butthurt fanboys, meh. Who cares about them.
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On May 19 2009 17:38 MoRe_mInErAls wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2009 15:19 Avidkeystamper wrote:
It doesn't need a definition, each writer defines it their own way. FS's PRs were about the most powerful player at the moment. But you see it doesn't make sense to make a ranking just to measure one month's results , especially for entertainment value (which PR is) when ranking and debating about the strongest overall players is so much more subjective and fun. I say JWD made a mistake this month. He failed to consider what the majority of TL (including Etter, FakeSteve, OneOther, and Manifesto) already understand PR to be. Why would you rank specifically one month when its more interesting in almost every way to rank the better player overall?
false dichotomy yo
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On May 20 2009 03:03 JWD wrote:
PS: re: "I have no idea how he even got to make one in the first place", actually I have FakeSteve locked up in my basement right now. I made him publish my rank at gunpoint. Then I went and masturbated at my shrine to Bisu, Fantasy, and Thezerg.
IMO this gives JWD more than enough street cred to write the power rank.
Awesome, well thought out ranking JWD, good job! I'm not saying mine would have been the same, but if you people want a completely objective ranking, go look at the KESPA rank. But why don't you? because it would be boring - just because JWD has difference opinions than you does not mean he is a blind fanboy. All of his placements (even Zero and TheZerg) he has backed up with reasoning, an so even if its apparent that they are 'incorrect' I don't think it much matters.
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I think the issue most people has is how he introduced Zero. It didn't start out with "Zero had an incredible month, outperforming Jaedong or matching him in just about everything," or something like that, but with "For the first time in forever, a Zerg is now over Jaedong in the Power Rank!"
Which is kind of a spit in the face to Jaedong fans. It's technically true, but it really is only because the criteria changed because there's a new PR writer. He made it out to be some coronation for Zero, when it wasn't. His specific Power Rank criteria (which many disagree with but it's not up for us to decide) makes Zero technically higher placed because he seems to stress pure performance and people KNOW if this were the old Power Rank that introduces new hotshots a bit more cautiously and gives leeway to big stars who stumble a bit but regain their footing, Jaedong would obviously be over him.
That's not ALL of the reason why people take issue with it. A big argument could be made for his strict "monthly performance" talk meaning jack because he's willing to bend the rules for a funny tidbit like Kespa, or, in his own words, toss DA ZURG a bone when there were undisputably people who performed better than him through pure statistics and through gameplay itself -- Great is one, but Calm who he specifically forgot to even include in CNBC comes to mind the most. Calm had probably the second best "month" of any zerg and saying TheZerg deserves the spot over him based on his criteria he set forth as a reason to have Zero over Jaedong seems sketchy at best.
It's true, he can do whatever the hell he wants with his Rank, but people have full right to take issue with it because it is so radically different from past ranks and, hell, in and of itself has a few problems some (like me) could think of.
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On May 20 2009 04:13 TwoToneTerran wrote:
That's not ALL of the reason why people take issue with it. A big argument could be made for his strict "monthly performance" talk meaning jack because he's willing to bend the rules for a funny tidbit like Kespa, or, in his own words, toss DA ZURG a bone when there were undisputably people who performed better than him through pure statistics and through gameplay itself -- Great is one, but Calm who he specifically forgot to even include in CNBC comes to mind the most. Calm had probably the second best "month" of any zerg and saying TheZerg deserves the spot over him based on his criteria he set forth as a reason to have Zero over Jaedong seems sketchy at best.
Re-read the CBNC. He addresses this completely.
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After the fact, was the point I was making. If he really couldn't remember Calm for CNBC in the first place, how was he so sure when putting thezerg in the PR?
Point stands that his criteria shifted further down. It wasn't "admittedly similar records," Calm had, pure record wise, the second best month next to Zero for zergs. He continues on about how TheZerg is part of the reason SKT1 is doing so well which is pretty trivial when his main reason for dropping Jaedong was "record record record." It wreaks of making excuses -- "Gorush is doing good on Battle Royal!" I'm a big fan of the oldbies but that is definitely not worth mentioning. The only other people he mentions are a superbly slumping Jangbi (like most of Calm's guys, not even on the rank this month) and Hiya's weak TvZ. TheZerg did nothing special -- nothing more than Calm. His record isn't as good. His play isn't as good. There is nothing beyond "He helped SKT1 this round" that should put him over Calm and if that's the sole reason, then he's pretty flip floppy on his reasons.
To Summarize:
He stresses record for putting Zero over Jaedong but immediately dismisses Calm's near spotless record in favor of TheZerg because SKT1 is doing well. Claims of 'evaluating' Calm and saying he wasn't quite good enough for the top 10 after forgetting about him entirely for CNBC wreaks of backtracking. Also mentioning gameplay for TheZerg vs Leta -- if we take 1 performance as a measuring stick, then Jaedong's recent games before the PR where he bounced back in true badass playing form should've count for something, but didn't get a passing mention.
His PR, his call, but people have every right in the world to find issue with this. The people getting all uppity about others voicing their opinion about this should drop it since there's a really legitimate argument.
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JWD, fakesteve or whoever is doing the next PR.
Is it possible to do an earlier PR this time or a later PR so that the PR will be out in the 1st of a month.
If its 1st one month it will be much easier to keep making them the 1st of each month, instead of like the 15th each month. Its still 1 month between the PRs.
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On May 20 2009 03:56 TarsTarkas wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2009 03:03 JWD wrote:
PS: re: "I have no idea how he even got to make one in the first place", actually I have FakeSteve locked up in my basement right now. I made him publish my rank at gunpoint. Then I went and masturbated at my shrine to Bisu, Fantasy, and Thezerg. IMO this gives JWD more than enough street cred to write the power rank. Awesome, well thought out ranking JWD, good job! I'm not saying mine would have been the same, but if you people want a completely objective ranking, go look at the KESPA rank. But why don't you? because it would be boring - just because JWD has difference opinions than you does not mean he is a blind fanboy. All of his placements (even Zero and TheZerg) he has backed up with reasoning, an so even if its apparent that they are 'incorrect' I don't think it much matters.
" but if you people want a completely objective ranking, go look at the KESPA rank."
Erm..you'll lose all credibility if you say that. Are you saying FS's power ranks, besides his placements for Sea[Shield] aren't objective? Because they sure are fun to read.
To quote a 5-star poster: "false dichotomy yo".
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EPT
