EPTPower Rank 12/14/2008 - Page 7
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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TheYango
United States47024 Posts
On December 15 2008 01:42 raga4ka wrote: Or 3.) There are more deserving players then him ... Enlighten me, please. Leta instead of FBH? Come on, FBH's match list in the last month has been far more impressive than Leta's. | ||
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Avidkeystamper
United States8552 Posts
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
1 and 2 are obvious choices, and good job not keeping stork as number 1 (again, for obvious reasons). Flash is a top 5 player at almost all times. I have no problem with him at #3. Your rankings after this are just way too reactionary I think. I would put way more weight on the games themselves, rather than simply results. Don't get me wrong, I can see how rough it is to sort out all these protoss players. I don't even necessarily disagree with the jangbi-free-best-kal order (though I was more impressed by free's games than anyone's this past month). The main problem revolves around Jaedong, and how much his recent games seem to have impacted the ranking. I think you're placing too much weight on a few losses Jaedong has coughed up lately. First of all, FBH beating Jaedong twice really shouldn't catapult him up the rankings like that. Especially after his laughable exit from the MSL 3-0 to Bisu (in which the only good thing he did the entire series was block that proxy), and failure to qualify for the OSL. It's also a huge insult to Sea for FBH to be that high, as Sea is playing out of his mind right now, and looking infinitely more consistent (breezing through to the individual leagues, great games in PL). Sea at 6 and FBH at 10 is much more realistic. There's a real point to be made here about Jaedong, though. Yeah, he's lost some games recently, but most of those games were amazing. His losses vs free, FBH (first one), and Sea were fucking crazy good games on both sides. Easily some of the best games of the last quarter. Could a single zerg out there right now play any better than that? I don't think so. Hype Effort and the wonder (read: failure) twins all you want, Jaedong is still the best zerg out there - by far. Just being the best zerg doesn't mean he should be on the PR, of course, but I still think he's a top 5 player. I can't believe people are saying things like 'I don't know who on the top 10 Jaedong could even beat right now'. That's just absolutely ridiculous, and proof positive that people are thinking too much about results and not about play. I'll put my money on Jaedong any day. It's one thing when Sea plays well and loses and doesn't make the PR some months, but it's another thing to drop someone like Jaedong down a bunch of spots because he lost a few ridiculously epic games. Results get you to the top, but it should take a bit to knock you down once you're up there (see Stork's inconsistent play since the OSL win, and how he still deserves that high spot). Also note how Jaedong and Flash have been unquestionably the top players of their races for over a year now, and that hasn't changed even when they each have been 'slumping'. | ||
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Krigstar
Sweden77 Posts
On December 14 2008 04:30 Hot_Bid wrote: Steve's right about your idea being stupid, he has to take into consideration all the games up to that point. It's the best solution for a PR that doesn't come on the first of the month. Also, there's a respectful way to say "hey lets release it on time please!" instead of yelling it like some unappreciative douche. Consider this a warning. loooooool First of all, ITS A PERSONAL TOP 10 LIST! Nothing else! Secondly, the rank has been late like every month in 2008. Originally this was a monthly rank so I think it's a very valid question to ask. Warning wtf :D Some of you take yourselves and this list waaaaaay seriously. It's difficult not to make fun of you, specially when Fakesteve actually thinks he has authority for getting his top ten list published for the public. Loosen up a bit. Also Steve, if you are going to continue to analyze games and pretend to be good at it at least tell us your ICCup rank rather than your amount of watched games so we can see if there is anything to back up your arrogance when discussing with those who don't agree with you. A ground course in methodology wouldn't hurt either. | ||
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Manit0u
Poland17238 Posts
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brjdrb
United States577 Posts
On December 15 2008 04:12 Krigstar wrote: loooooool First of all, ITS A PERSONAL TOP 10 LIST! Nothing else! Secondly, the rank has been late like every month in 2008. Originally this was a monthly rank so I think it's a very valid question to ask. Warning wtf :D Some of you take yourselves and this list waaaaaay seriously. It's difficult not to make fun of you, specially when Fakesteve actually thinks he has authority for getting his top ten list published for the public. Loosen up a bit. Also Steve, if you are going to continue to analyze games and pretend to be good at it at least tell us your ICCup rank rather than your amount of watched games so we can see if there is anything to back up your arrogance when discussing with those who don't agree with you. A ground course in methodology wouldn't hurt either. obviously you've never seen the crotchmaster play :p. and anyway, i don't think that his iccup rank really has anything to do with it. perhaps it makes some small difference in understanding, but to imply that unless he's some arbitrary rank (B or up, w/e u are thinking) he can't determine whichplayers are doing the best, then you are fairly narrow-minded. we know that steve's analysis is probably more complete than what most of us could do, and he even manages to make it entertaining. he's also doing this as a service, on his own time, so stop acting like u deserve it. instead, be thankful that someone more informed than you is giving u a rough idea of who's playing well in starcraft | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On December 15 2008 04:28 brjdrb wrote: Isnt that the question? To which level he is informed? To which level he is biased? And why would we be thankful? There are many, many people on this site, fully willing and capable of doing the PR- on a timely basis. No one begged and pleaded for FS to do the PR rank, it is simply a feature of the site. Criticism is utterly valid. Groveling is not.instead, be thankful that someone more informed than you is giving u a rough idea of who's playing well in starcraft | ||
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brjdrb
United States577 Posts
On December 15 2008 04:52 Dazed_Spy wrote: Isnt that the question? To which level he is informed? To which level he is biased? And why would we be thankful? There are many, many people on this site, fully willing and capable of doing the PR- on a timely basis. No one begged and pleaded for FS to do the PR rank, it is simply a feature of the site. Criticism is utterly valid. Groveling is not. Then perhaps those who are doing the criticism should try it themselves. I'm not saying that steve's PR shouldn't be scrutinized. Hell, as a Stork fan I refuted his rankings of him because I thought he was biased. What I am saying is that I don't think that his ICCUP rank is important. I'm personally a D player (D+ last season, but that was probably a fluke. lol) but I do watch most of the kespa-sanctioned games, and I think that I've gained as much knowledge doing that as I would in getting to a B- or higher rank. Steve's been doing it for alot longer than I have, and his PR's have been well-informed in the past. Sure he's not perfect, but try doing it yourself before you question his methods | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
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brjdrb
United States577 Posts
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Krigstar
Sweden77 Posts
On December 15 2008 05:15 brjdrb wrote: You don't have the authority to make your own thread? And even if you don't actually go through with making it, I'm sure that going through and actually watching the games and doing all of the research that going into a PR, official or not, would give you a good idea of whether or not steve is qualified. In fact, I can't think of a better way of deciding. I like the way Fakesteve does the rank. He is a good writer and has interesting thoughts. He is however, not better than anyone else when it comes to make a personal top 10 list and because of this I don't like his attitude towards others. It was cute at first, but now it has obviously gone over his head and he seems to overrate himself like an idiot. He is not cute, he is arrogant like hell. His lists are not better because he watches 1000 games every week and analyzes every game. I can tell my grandmother to do that too and it still wouldn't increase her knowledge of the game enough. What's the point of watching all games, when you can't watch it with an open mind. And he obviously can't watch the games with an open mind since he believes that those who don't agree with him are clueless. You have to understand that doing the list in 10 hours or 1 hour is irrelevant. If anything it must be worse for the credibility to let a mediocre player analyze a game on a pro level and actually think he can do it good. I understand the power rank, but I hate the fact that people get warnings and fakesteve talks like he is better than anyone else at making top ten lists. It's just bizarre the whole situation. Again, it's a fucking top ten list from one single person lol. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
On December 14 2008 20:42 Geo.Rion wrote: you use the offliners against Best, but you dont mention Pusan failed both MSL and OSL prelims. Try to be rational. Best has to be above JD, Pusan has nothing to do with PR nor Mind, Magma and Up might reach CBNC, but even that might be too early. FBH being too high, that might be, replacing with Leta, no. Startin your post with "Lool" doesnt help either, it makes you look like a 13 yeras old child. Pusan made it to the finals of both groups where he lost to a zerg player, can't remember the MBC one but in OSL he lost to maGma 1-2  is that really that bad considering how well maGma is playing? Pusan also has had an impressive winlist, just watch his game against Stork and you'll see just what i mean. Pusan may not deserve top 10 - but he's definitely CBNC material | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On December 15 2008 05:15 brjdrb wrote: Clearly I watch a lot of SC, I know a shitload about the game- and im probably about Fakesteves skill level, and im not fucking good at Starcraft. Im as qualified as FS is to make these lists. I know full well though, that despite watching a LOT of starcraft and analyzing to the best of my ability, reading strategy and so on, I am NOT qualified to say for certain who is the top ten. I understand the game in theory, not in actual application, I don't know the truly in depth. Nor does fakesteve, or yes, he would be above D rank. I could easily make a power rank, and it would not be entirely different from this one.You don't have the authority to make your own thread? And even if you don't actually go through with making it, I'm sure that going through and actually watching the games and doing all of the research that going into a PR, official or not, would give you a good idea of whether or not steve is qualified. In fact, I can't think of a better way of deciding. The attitude is the fucking problem, along side the *extreme* lateness of the PR. For MONTHS now. | ||
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brjdrb
United States577 Posts
On December 15 2008 05:44 Krigstar wrote: I like the way Fakesteve does the rank. He is a good writer and has interesting thoughts. He is however, not better than anyone else when it comes to make a personal top 10 list and because of this I don't like his attitude towards others. It was cute at first, but now it has obviously gone over his head and he seems to overrate himself like an idiot. He is not cute, he is arrogant like hell. His lists are not better because he watches 1000 games every week and analyzes every game. I can tell my grandmother to do that too and it still wouldn't increase her knowledge of the game enough. What's the point of watching all games, when you can't watch it with an open mind. And he obviously can't watch the games with an open mind since he believes that those who don't agree with him are clueless. You have to understand that doing the list in 10 hours or 1 hour is irrelevant. If anything it must be worse for the credibility to let a mediocre player analyze a game on a pro level and actually think he can do it good. I understand the power rank, but I hate the fact that people get warnings and fakesteve talks like he is better than anyone else at making top ten lists. It's just bizarre the whole situation. Again, it's a fucking top ten list from one single person lol. Ok. If you're not going to try it for yourself, then there's no point in arguing with you. Anyway, I agree with the PR for the most part. I just don't think there's any real reason to have Kal at #9. His play just seems so unspectacular to me. I'm glad to see 3 Khan players doing so well though. | ||
]343[
United States10328 Posts
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Jaeden
Romania1489 Posts
On December 15 2008 05:53 Dazed_Spy wrote: Clearly I watch a lot of SC, I know a shitload about the game- and im probably about Fakesteves skill level, and im not fucking good at Starcraft. Im as qualified as FS is to make these lists. I know full well though, that despite watching a LOT of starcraft and analyzing to the best of my ability, reading strategy and so on, I am NOT qualified to say for certain who is the top ten. I understand the game in theory, not in actual application, I don't know the truly in depth. Nor does fakesteve, or yes, he would be above D rank. I could easily make a power rank, and it would not be entirely different from this one. The attitude is the fucking problem, along side the *extreme* lateness of the PR. For MONTHS now. then go on and show us ur PR. No need for a new thread, just post it here, I`m really curious. | ||
Aesop
Hungary11282 Posts
On December 15 2008 05:53 Dazed_Spy wrote: Clearly I watch a lot of SC, I know a shitload about the game- and im probably about Fakesteves skill level, and im not fucking good at Starcraft. Im as qualified as FS is to make these lists. I know full well though, that despite watching a LOT of starcraft and analyzing to the best of my ability, reading strategy and so on, I am NOT qualified to say for certain who is the top ten. I understand the game in theory, not in actual application, I don't know the truly in depth. Nor does fakesteve, or yes, he would be above D rank. I could easily make a power rank, and it would not be entirely different from this one. The attitude is the fucking problem, along side the *extreme* lateness of the PR. For MONTHS now. The whole thing required for PR appear to be: 1) Create a ranking that is reasonable 2) Put forward good arguments for that ranking but in reality it's rather: 0) Write up a ranking, and make the wording, so that there will be discussion and controversy for a whole month. Sometimes drop into the thread to re-ignite the discussion. Maybe you can do 1,2. But are you respected and skilled enough to do 0? | ||
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Dazed.
Canada3301 Posts
On December 15 2008 08:37 Jaeden wrote: then go on and show us ur PR. No need for a new thread, just post it here, I`m really curious. 1. Bisu 2. Stork 3. Flash 4. Jangbi 5. Free 6. Best 7. FBH 8. Jaedong 9. Kal 10. Leta CBNC pusan, sea, yarnc, calm On December 15 2008 08:53 Aesop wrote: Creating flame bait, which will inevitably lead to me, the PR writer, coming off as a condescending arrogant asshole, throwing around threats of banning etc- well, thats not conducive to a healthy website. So I would not even attempt to do that. The whole thing required for PR appear to be: 1) Create a ranking that is reasonable 2) Put forward good arguments for that ranking but in reality it's rather: 0) Write up a ranking, and make the wording, so that there will be discussion and controversy for a whole month. Sometimes drop into the thread to re-ignite the discussion. Maybe you can do 1,2. But are you respected and skilled enough to do 0?  | ||
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Aesop
Hungary11282 Posts
On December 15 2008 09:04 Dazed_Spy wrote: Creating flame bait, which will inevitably lead to me, the PR writer, coming off as a condescending arrogant asshole, throwing around threats of banning etc- well, thats not conducive to a healthy website. So I would not even attempt to do that. It is not simply flame-bait. It is rather voicing a reasonable opinion in a way that creates discussion and keeps it alive. As you saw, your Powerrank would be similar. But nobody would want to discuss it throughout almost 1000 comments. Why is that so? | ||
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