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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
Interesting thought - suppose Savior runs right over all the other opponents and completely embarrasses them en route to winning the OSL. Suppose that you had to do Power Rank right after that, ignoring like the MSL stuff.
How high would you rank Midas? Is it justifiable to give him second even though he's in ODT and at least 7 other people finished ahead of him in OSL? I'm really curious what you guys think of that.
On February 09 2007 12:56 omgbnetsux wrote:
That was a response to the person above me calling for objective measures in a Power Ranking. Needless to say, Sir Etter provides justification and his personal rationalization for his decisions, both of which are subjective. What's your point?
He does, I just don't agree with the rationalization for some of it =)
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If Savior proceeds to embarass everyone, Midas did go 2-2 with him overall this OSL. It's hard to take Midas down a lot if Savior proceeds to crush everyone. Iris will lose anyways so Nada or Casy will take on Savior, meaning they will probably rise in rank a lil bit next PR. Hell, Casy can honestly go to #2 if he beats Nada and is ready to take on Savior...
Midas is a hard case this month because he fell to the #1 ranked, and very narrowly, leaving upcoming performances in the air...
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
The relevant question that I debated with Aphelion is whether or not you'd think the same way if Savior had lost to Midas and Midas went on to win OSL...judging strictly from OSL, would he be any lower than no.2 or maybe no.3?
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Bet you feel silly now that you didnt put bisu at 10th
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im korean
who is write to this rank ??
this is bad sucking !!!
real rank=
1,savior- absolutely ,king of king, perfect lord, ... he called by nickname "the maestro of zerg"
2.nada -the genius is resurrectioning now!!
3 midas- the engine
4.bisu- next generation best protoss
5casy
6,hwasin
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This is a ranking about which players are playing best at the moment, not a list of the most skilled/promising players. Your list is bad either way.
Also, what the hell does it matter if you're Korean?
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On February 10 2007 10:03 fidelwhisk wrote:
im korean
who is write to this rank ??
this is bad sucking !!!
real rank=
1,savior- absolutely ,king of king, perfect lord, ... he called by nickname "the maestro of zerg"
2.nada -the genius is resurrectioning now!!
3 midas- the engine
4.bisu- next generation best protoss
5casy
6,hwasin
cute <3
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Again, I will say that anyone in the top 10 to 20 are capable of beating the other. The only standouts at the moment are Savior, and dare I say it, NaDa. Rankings are just for funsies anyway.
It's really like the current tennis situation. There's Federer, and dare I say it, Nadal. The rest are capable of beating each other.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
such a comparison is insulting to federer, who has been number one in the world every week for 2 years, reached 16 of 17 finals in tournaments he played in 2006, and has been 246-15 since the end of 2003
current ATP ranking points race:
1 Federer 8120
2 Nadal 4755
3 Davydenko 2825
so savior has a way to go =)
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He is talking about current skill distribution and not about the whole career.
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GrandInquisitor
New York City13113 Posts
still, midas went 2-2 with him this OSL
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I didn't say that he is right.
But if you switch Midas with Nada then it's pretty accurate.
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I'm going to get flamed but I think Midas is seriously overrated. Yes he has amazing game mechanics but his mental strenght is just very poor and that's as important as skill when playing at high lvl. Midas just can't take the heat eventhough he's such a juggernaut when his pants are dry. I would rank him 5 or 6th personally but that's just me.
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Fair enough. I can deal with people saying Midas should be lower. I personally would keep him at #2, but if you guys honestly think he didn't push Savior to win, or that the victory was incredibly significant to Savior, you are wrong. I keep him at #2 because I remember Savior's expression post game, and how close... HOW CLOSE he was from OSL elimination. Please don't forget, Savior is barely in the OSL cuz Midas barely lost.
Of course that doesn't take away future merit in his Much Stomp and future Iris-stomp.
Also, I can understand people's love of Nada, but when this PR was made, he was up against Yarc on maps that we expected every Z to really struggle and lose with. Also, Nada didn't even do well in group stages, finishing 3rd with a losing record.
He did well in WildCards but... who's a challenge in Wild Cards to anyone who should be on PR?
All the players on the list are favorites at the wild card stage imo.
So far, honestly, I consider Yarc vs Nada the only tough series Nada's played so far. Yarc killed Oov, but I'm not sure how much that means right now. However, after seeing the games, Savior seems so much a favorite imo. However, this could be because I consider Midas one of the best TvZ's, and a lot of people say no but look at his record vs Savior. No other terran comes CLOSE to Midas' record against Savior. They are so close to break even, Savior is pulling like 60% or 55% against Midas. Sorry, no one else is near that. Everyone else is 30% or worse vs Savior pretty much.
I hate Midas for doing what he did... but who's to say he never had a chance? If he did win, you know he is in the finals of the tournament, and up against the weaker bracket half. Plus, honestly, can you rank 4 people better than Midas atm? I honestly cannot.
On February 10 2007 07:54 TheGreatOne wrote:
Bet you feel silly now that you didnt put bisu at 10th
And to defend etter, although there is no need to defend here. I believe Bisu pulled out a "???!!! Nice!" series out against Ra. However, who HONESTLY expected that. EVERYONE was very surprised. Bisu played great, and Etter said he was nearly on the PR, and that the bottom 3 on this list could be very inter-changable. Or maybe I said that... but you get the point. I thought about it, but watching Bisu play before vs Ra was.. so-so.
Come on -_-;; He's a protoss... You can't put 3 toss on the list when they suck -_-;;. No Toss representation this season. GJ Bisu.
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Im curious if Jaedong should make it there.
He has not shown up in OSL MSL yet, but his pro league results are amazing. I think he is a player to look at.
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Proleagues been over for awhile
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On February 11 2007 16:35 SuperJongMan wrote:
Also, Nada didn't even do well in group stages, finishing 3rd with a losing record.
I thought PR is monthly issue. If so group stage in OSL is previous month (December) and should not be considered.
He did well in WildCards but... who's a challenge in Wild Cards to anyone who should be on PR?All the players on the list are favorites at the wild card stage imo.
Well, Nada beat Light, who happens to be above him!
"and a combination of maps and good luck might be enough for him to continue advancing, but his skill is much, much lower than it was last season." - DJEtterStyle
January Nada has played these games:
Nada > Shinhwa
Nada > Shinhwa
Nada > Dongrae
Nada > Dongrae
Nada > Firebathero
Nada > Light
Nada > Upmagic
Nada < Upmagic
I truly don't understand "combination of maps and good luck" part. 6 out of 8 games were TvT, and AFAIC one game vs Shinhwa was on pretty balanced Blitz X. And we're not discussing if Nada's power is less or more than it was last season, but where is Nada's skill now toward other PRO's.
I find 9th place is not right.
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On February 12 2007 03:03 One Page Memory wrote:Show nested quote +On February 11 2007 16:35 SuperJongMan wrote:
Also, Nada didn't even do well in group stages, finishing 3rd with a losing record. I thought PR is monthly issue. If so group stage in OSL is previous month (December) and should not be considered.
Yes, it's a monthly issue, but obviously results and skill displays from the past will matter in ranking the players. Savior has been the best for so long, he can afford to have a slightly worse month (like the last) and still be ranked 1. Midas might not play a single televised game this month, but he could still be on the power rank.
Show nested quote +He did well in WildCards but... who's a challenge in Wild Cards to anyone who should be on PR?All the players on the list are favorites at the wild card stage imo. Well, Nada beat Light, who happens to be above him!
Light is #8 (which I consider to be a bit high as well btw) because of his TvP and TvZ, both of which are very good. TvT is his weak spot, and Nada's best mu right now, so him losing to Nada is no surprise. Light also lost to Hwasin. :p
I truly don't understand "combination of maps and good luck" part. 6 out of 8 games were TvT, and AFAIC one game vs Shinhwa was on pretty balanced Blitz X. And we're not discussing if Nada's power is less or more than it was last season, but where is Nada's skill now toward other PRO's.
I find 9th place is not right.
Although he had good results, if you look at the games individually, he did not play very well in most of them. He played scared, and was lucky to win in more than one of those games. I think I've said it somewhere in this thread before, Silver had a huge win streak during the first month of the power rank, reaching the MSL finals and winning in Proleague, and he wasn't even in the PR.
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On February 12 2007 03:03 One Page Memory wrote:
I truly don't understand "combination of maps and good luck" part.
You have to read what I wrote. Those things might be enough for him to continue advancing. I was not calling his past wins luck-based. The maps, being good for Terran, meant that there was a high probability that he would, in his upcoming games, get favorable matchups (such as a Bo3 TvZ on Longinus, HitchHiker, and RLT). That's where the luck comes in.
Beyond that, his streak of TvT wins was against a bunch of sort of "meh" players. Jesus, I hope Nada can still handle Dongrae and Light (whose TvT has always been his Achille's heel). The only semi-capable TvT player he beat before Up was FirebatHero, and winning those games is what got him on the PR.
As the tournament has gone on, however, Nada's been playing better and better. He'll probably move up again next month, even though I'm expecting him to lose to Casy 3-1. 
Added:
And PR is a monthly update, not a monthly consideration. I certainly weigh current results more heavily than ones from the past few months, but I look at more than the 4-10 games that a player might play over the course of 30 days. I usually go back a few months, but I do try to keep a "short memory" on players whenever possible.
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NaDa beat Casy 3-2, put him higher! lol
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EPT
