EPTWhat do you think of the Starleague's best of one Ro32 for…
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Moxz
United States3 Posts
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Prplppleatr
United States1518 Posts
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Shinespark
Chile843 Posts
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Gary Oak
Canada2381 Posts
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Oiseaux
United States676 Posts
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datcirclejerk
89 Posts
On June 18 2013 08:57 Oiseaux wrote: Bo1's shouldn't exist in SC2 in anything deeper than a Ro128, potentially a Ro64. Agreed. Because the game is fundamentally flawed and has a significant luck component, unfortunately. | ||
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Zykor
United States58 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19229 Posts
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LimitSEA
Australia9580 Posts
On June 18 2013 08:00 Shinespark wrote: Horrible format. Please OGN, leave my GSL alone! This ain't GSL, mate. This is OSL. And this is the format they've always used. | ||
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Verator
United States283 Posts
On June 18 2013 10:21 LimitSEA wrote: Not really fussed. There will be upsets which adds to the excitement, but overall the top tier players should still get through. This ain't GSL, mate. This is OSL. And this is the format they've always used. It is neither the GSL or OSL. Its WCS. And WCS, kind of sucks. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
On June 18 2013 08:00 Shinespark wrote: Horrible format. Please OGN, leave my GSL alone! Up & Downs is also Bo1 ... People forget that the last OSL ran fine with minimal upsets at the group stage and that was in a more volatile stage of SC2. If there's enough preparation and time between games Bo1 group play is not that prone to upsets. Just look at Dreamhack, plenty of upsets in a Bo3/Bo5 format, likely due to less preparation and playing a ton in a short period. | ||
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Alacast
United States205 Posts
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RaiKageRyu
Canada4773 Posts
On June 18 2013 12:27 Scarecrow wrote: Up & Downs is also Bo1 ... People forget that the last OSL ran fine with minimal upsets at the group stage and that was in a more volatile stage of SC2. If there's enough preparation and time between games Bo1 group play is not that prone to upsets. Just look at Dreamhack, plenty of upsets in a Bo3/Bo5 format, likely due to less preparation and playing a ton in a short period. Round Robins is another matter. Last time they didn't have to contend with proleague as well. | ||
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Scarecrow
Korea (South)9172 Posts
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asdfOu
United States2089 Posts
On June 18 2013 11:19 Verator wrote: It is neither the GSL or OSL. Its WCS. And WCS, kind of sucks. ^ this and please bring the gsl bak, im tired of all these event leagues people are trying to qualify for with code s. The big league (skill wise) is still code s but people think it's the wcs global. | ||
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Vault Boy
Germany131 Posts
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kochanfe
Micronesia1338 Posts
On June 18 2013 07:29 Moxz wrote: How can they play Bo1 when there's 2 players?? Nice first post! + Show Spoiler + BAN | ||
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Gaius Baltar
United States449 Posts
On June 18 2013 10:16 BisuDagger wrote: Love it. Love the drama. Deal with it. Bring on the brutal, Starleague. | ||
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Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
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KasPra
Estonia983 Posts
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Maegi
Finland174 Posts
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ne4aJIb
Russian Federation3209 Posts
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Ragnarork
France9034 Posts
And Bo3 are intersting because small series enable the mindgames that comes with multiple-games series. | ||
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LowEloPlayer
United States205 Posts
On June 18 2013 09:42 datcirclejerk wrote: Agreed. Because the game is fundamentally flawed and has a significant luck component, unfortunately. What are you talking about? What is this fundamental flaw? That not all maps are completely balanced? Or that people can win with cheese? I agree that the Bo1 format is pretty stupid, but what "fundamental" luck is there? | ||
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NEEDZMOAR
Sweden1277 Posts
*I love the way a bo3 plans out, the mindgames and the way the players plan the series and not just for one game. *a bo1 is obviously more luckbased and all-ins/cheese will be more rewarding. *We wont see players adapt to their opponent on the fly in the same way. *Maps will have a huge impact. On the other hand: *Maps will have a huge impact *more players will be shown in one Cast. * groupstage wont take as much time which means that we'll be done with the bo1 silliness rather quickly. Im actually surprised that WCS kr is allowed to use a different setup than EU and AM. | ||
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Vanimar
220 Posts
They should seriously consider changing it. Change is possible you know, women may vote these days, men can care for children and some amerikans are atheists. We have to believe that change for the better is possible, even in Kespa! | ||
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Skytt
Scotland333 Posts
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Talionis
Scotland4085 Posts
With the GSL clusterfuck groups, not only do you have to practice for your opening map and matchup, you also have no idea what other maps you'll actually be playing. Add on the fact that you have to play one or two more series that day against opponents that aren't predetermined with such a selection of maps to play. eugh. More room for highly practiced builds, both standard and unorthodox. I'm cool with it. It's a nice change of pace. | ||
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YuiHirasawa
Japan220 Posts
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FrostedMiniWheats
United States30730 Posts
You don't get to even see if a player can adapt to his opponents over the course of several games and maps. I mean we've had numerous series where a player gets totally bopped in game 1 but then mounts a comeback in the series or at least makes it competitive. bo1 leaves me feeling like I don't have a good snapshot on the players and usually the first game of the series isn't the best. | ||
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19229 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:16 FrostedMiniWheats wrote: Hate it. It's not necessarily even just because of upsets it just all feels so underwhelming. Like a watered down GSL. From the last OSL, we didn't have too many upsets but the games sure sucked. You don't get to even see if a player can adapt to his opponents over the course of several games and maps. I mean we've had numerous series where a player gets totally bopped in game 1 but then mounts a comeback in the series or at least makes it competitive. bo1 leaves me feeling like I don't have a good snapshot on the players and usually the first game of the series isn't the best. Can't reference the last OSL where Kespa was very underwhelming in experience. And todays games were great. Did you not think so? | ||
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Lazzi
Switzerland1923 Posts
On June 18 2013 14:09 Vault Boy wrote: Its this "GomTV does BO3 so we do something different" again... Dude, OSL has been using this format for years. This has nothing to do with GSL. | ||
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datcirclejerk
89 Posts
On June 18 2013 23:17 LowEloPlayer wrote: What are you talking about? What is this fundamental flaw? That not all maps are completely balanced? Or that people can win with cheese? I agree that the Bo1 format is pretty stupid, but what "fundamental" luck is there? Well, in part, it is the fact that incomplete information can lead to build order losses. But this is only the most glaring flaw. The rest I don't feel like arguing. | ||
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Zenbrez
Canada5973 Posts
On June 19 2013 02:36 datcirclejerk wrote: Well, in part, it is the fact that incomplete information can lead to build order losses. But this is only the most glaring flaw. The rest I don't feel like arguing. You can easily avoid the chances of a build order loss by picking a wellrounded build. | ||
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why
United States215 Posts
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Waxangel
United States33339 Posts
they are cutting down on match day lengths, but it could be even more! | ||
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Cam Connor
Canada786 Posts
User was temp banned for this post. | ||
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rift
1819 Posts
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esReveR
United States567 Posts
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hoburame
Netherlands48 Posts
Blizzard just makes a league to unify the skill, have great story lines and create a well known pro league franchise in the Starcraft 2 world. The league in KR will be run with both OGN and GomTV. So far so good. And then: Maps are not the same in every league. What is the unity in there ? The players don't even play on the same field ! And now, OGN is allowed to run an other format than the WCS. Unify everything to just blow it all over again ? So you make a league and you don't standardize anything... You make things global and unfair. How is this a league I can trust to bring the best champion forward ? How is this even one league ? You are basically making 3 open brackets for the major event you want to hold and change the rules of every bracket to enter the main event. ( I would give so much to see some major tourney doing this and watch the community react. ) What is Blizzard doing in all this ? I want to know and have updates on what they are doing to fix this but they are not publicly announcing anything. When you set up a league, you have to monitor it. You announced it, you promised something good and unifying, now you better make it happen. This is how real professionals would do it. This looks even worse than amateur work. It's nothing to be proud of. Be fucking professionals guys and make it happen. Or pay me, I'll gladly do it. | ||
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Tuczniak
1561 Posts
And on top of that bo3/5/7 is way more fun to watch than bo1. | ||
nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
On June 18 2013 10:16 BisuDagger wrote: Love it. Love the drama. Deal with it. ^this. Also so far there are no surprises. I think in Bo1 format players are less willing to gamble. | ||
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Salivanth
Australia1071 Posts
Since the maps are randomised, maps don't make much of a difference in this calculation. The more lopsided the maps, even lopsided equally (Such as a map pool comprised of two maps in a TvZ, one with a 90% win-rate for Terran, one with a 90% win-rate for Zerg) the better this is for the less skilled player, but the maps aren't THAT lopsided. The main reason I dislike the change is simple: Less games to watch. + Show Spoiler + Maths shown in spoiler. The possible outcomes are: Red 2-0 Blue: 36% chance. 60% * 60% = 36%. Blue 2-0 Red: 16% chance. 40% * 40% = 16%. Red 2-1 Blue: 28.8% chance. Blue wins g1, Red wins the next two: 40% * 60% * 60% = 14.4% Red wins g1, Blue wins g2, Red wins g3: 60% * 40% * 60% = 14.4% Blue 2-1 Red: 19.2% chance. Red wins g1. Blue wins the next two: 60% * 40% * 40% = 9.6% Blue wins g1, Red wins g2, Blue wings g3: 40% * 60% * 40% = 9.6% Total chance of Red winning the Bo3: 64.8%. Green 2-0 Yellow: 64%. 80% * 80% = 64%. Yellow 2-0 Green: 4%. 20% * 20% = 4%. Green 2-1 Yellow: 80% * 80% * 20% = 12.8%. Total of 25.6%. Yellow 2-1 Green: 20% * 20% * 80% = 3.2%. Total of 6.4%. Green's chances: 89.6%. | ||
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y0su
Finland7871 Posts
EDIT: This has nothing to do with the Higher BO rewarding the player with the better chance to win (mathematically). But, I like how a series plays out between two players. The possibility of long term head games. The comeback after being down 0-2. ETC. | ||
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Sjokola
Netherlands800 Posts
But I don't like the inconsistency between the wcs regions. I think it's best to let OSL be seperate from wcs. I like their format but not for wcs | ||
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Too_MuchZerg
Finland2818 Posts
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Thor.Rush
Sweden702 Posts
The thrill of new strategies and fast paced games. sure fair point. | ||
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garbanzo
United States4046 Posts
I think this is also good for the metagame because players will have to spend more effort into practicing to defend the "standard" cheeses, but at the same time it will encourage well-prepared snipe builds. | ||
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oneill12
Romania1222 Posts
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vesicular
United States1310 Posts
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midnight999
United States257 Posts
On June 18 2013 14:09 Vault Boy wrote: Its this "GomTV does BO3 so we do something different" again... Proly not. OSL used this format for years. | ||
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nimdil
Poland3748 Posts
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Kabras
Romania3508 Posts
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Sated
England4983 Posts
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BisuDagger
Bisutopia19229 Posts
On June 20 2013 23:46 Sated wrote: This can happen in a Bo3, especially when the loser picks the next map. Someone can easily prepare a strategy for a specific map and then pick that map if they lose a game. Seeing how someone deals with losing to a prepared strategy, timing or all-in is interesting, which is why I like BoX better when X > 1. It's all about reactions and longevity for me, not single map strategies. EDIT: BisuDagger said they "love the drama". I would argue that a Bo3 has more drama than a Bo1, as you have the possibility of seeing someone go full-tilt after losing to a prepared strategy or all-in in the first game etc. which you will rarely get to see in a Bo1 format. I actually am saying I love the drama. Not sure who this "they" is. And the drama I'm referring to is all you people out there freaking out about bo1's. It amuses me to hell. So thank you all for picking up some pitch forks and getting angry cause the more drama the better. | ||
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EonShiKeno
United States122 Posts
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KivTM
Australia90 Posts
(I can only imagine how many OSL's Bisu might have had if GSL format was used.) | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7801 Posts
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KivTM
Australia90 Posts
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jeffvip
211 Posts
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jinsanity
United States137 Posts
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Angelavenger
United States59 Posts
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PVJ
Hungary5214 Posts
It's an unbelievably tense and great format. | ||
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zelderan
United States163 Posts
On June 21 2013 17:37 Angelavenger wrote: I really dislike this format. Players often staying in games they would normally leave in a bo3 or just cheesing all the time. Really prefer the gsl format. Exactly. People like Stardust who go for the baserace end up wining, which might be exciting at the time, but cheesers end up winning in the long run, wich is boring :\ | ||
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Hall0wed
United States8486 Posts
On June 18 2013 11:19 Verator wrote: It is neither the GSL or OSL. Its WCS. And WCS, kind of sucks. Not only this but also this is Starcraft 2, not Broodwar. People seem to forget this important fact when talking about how "OSL has always been this way". I don't care too much about the format though. BO3 is better, but BO1 is not the worst thing ever. | ||
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Savko
Canada45 Posts
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BrainPaste
United States18 Posts
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BrainPaste
United States18 Posts
On June 21 2013 19:02 PVJ wrote: Disappointing results to be honest. It's an unbelievably tense and great format. I agree. Even in the Finals, a Bo7 I think is too much. Best of 5 would be just fine. Makes the games more important, more intense, makes every encounter and mistake that much more magnified. | ||
digmouse
China6329 Posts
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iyasq8
113 Posts
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GinDo
3327 Posts
On June 18 2013 10:16 BisuDagger wrote: Love it. Love the drama. Deal with it. I know. BO1 bring about great moments in SC History. ^_^ | ||
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Tx3Jorge
United States32 Posts
Bo1 matches in a group in ro32 is fine. Players have to win twice and are are allowed to lose once if they want to advance to ro16. Sound familar? Winning twice and losing once is the same as a bo3. If Bo3 in ro32 in a 32-player bracket format tournament is fine, then why would bo3 ro32 group-format tournament be any different? They're both the same. People who are disgusted that its "bo1" format don't know how to put things in perspective. | ||
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Deadlyeye
Germany14 Posts
wcs should have bo3 because its blizzards intention to provide a tournament in every region so viewers can tune in for the evening. in a bo1 theres 5 matches... include some all ins and its over in an hour (aditional 2 hrs for advertising, ok). anyway, ONE format for wcs (at least in one region). esl and mlg (probably nasl too) stick to the gsl bo3 system, so we have wcs eu/na bo3, wcs kr bo3 when goms in charge and one stray dog. | ||
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Daswollvieh
5553 Posts
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Targe
United Kingdom14103 Posts
I hate the way in a Bo3 you can go for a quick all in or go super eco if you're a game ahead. | ||
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Grumbels
Netherlands7031 Posts
I think for the purpose of qualifying (especially with sc2 being reasonably volatile, and the fact there are only 4 seasons per year) they should have a more dense qualifying process with more games played. However, if the Ro32 is going to be part of the main tournament I actually prefer the best of 1, simply because it allows us to have two groups per day and drastically shorten this part of the tournament. | ||
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tns
1054 Posts
On June 18 2013 10:16 BisuDagger wrote: Love it. Love the drama. Deal with it. drama makes people sad T^T fortunately it can makes few laugh... but still... thought WCS was a whole blizzard tournament? why wcs.eu premier bo3 and wcs.kr bo1 allowing koreans to compete other region to equalize foreigners skills... oh it makes sense... more games for foreigners to improve and catch up with koreans... but still... it's such a chaotic format bracket... | ||
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karlkarlson
26 Posts
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