• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 06:25
CEST 12:25
KST 19:25
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced21BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
[Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 743 users

What do you think of Naniwa vs Nestea? - Page 3

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
liberal
Profile Joined November 2011
1116 Posts
December 13 2011 17:38 GMT
#41
People should play this game because they love to play it, because they have a passion for it and because they ENJOY it. The fact that Naniwa didn't try because the "results didn't matter" simply implies that he lacks the capacity for enjoying the game regardless of the consequences or outcome. What is the point of even being a pro gamer if you don't passionately love the game and play it because you enjoy playing it?

Does he treat his practice matches with the same disdain, because they don't really matter? Why couldn't he treat it as simply another opportunity to practice, while treating his fans to a show? If it's all about results and money then go get a real job and quit wasting the fans time.
Perfect
Profile Joined August 2010
United States322 Posts
December 13 2011 17:41 GMT
#42
WHO CARES. its the equiv. to a touchdown dance.
Psotnik
Profile Joined August 2011
Poland14 Posts
December 13 2011 17:42 GMT
#43
how is that game different from playing game 4 and 5 in BO5 after it's 3:0? bad format + emotions = 7probes, ppl should stop spaming postd over it.
I play SC since Broodwar, never cheesed or allin - ed, sc2 as Terran, never even 111 allined, im like mother %$#^ SC - sait
ReturnStroke
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
United States801 Posts
December 13 2011 17:42 GMT
#44
really close results. nice poll
say1988
Profile Joined April 2011
9 Posts
December 13 2011 17:42 GMT
#45
On December 14 2011 02:38 liberal wrote:
People should play this game because they love to play it, because they have a passion for it and because they ENJOY it.

Even if they don't enjoy (and Nani probably does the vast majority of the time) it, as soon as you are being paid to do a job, you do it when you feel happy and when you don't.
XIJABERWALKIX
Profile Joined December 2010
United States27 Posts
December 13 2011 17:43 GMT
#46
Naniwa has shown time and time again that the only thing he cares about is winning and making money. He cares nothing of furthering the sport. His argument is pathetic. You should never visibly "stop-trying" in a professional/televised match. However to be fair, he is correct. If he would have 4 gated, nothing would have been said.

Naniwa doesn't get that doing the things he does (probe rushing, bad interviews, etc) actually hurt the credibility of e-sports. Other professional sports teams play time and time again in "pointless" games, however they play them and they play them with a decent amount of effort. Sure they might try harder if things were on the line, but they still want to win. It's about pride. Possibly even more than that, it's about credibility and heart of the game. No one wants to put money into a league where everyone except the top teams/players start quitting because they have little to no chance of advancing. If that were the case, every single sporting format would be something like elimination style tournaments, there would be no "seasons." Leagues and especially teams need to start coaching players on proper professional etiquette if eSports is to continue to grow at the rate it has been. There are no excuses for things like that anymore. We're so close to the big leagues, it would be a shame for something like that to hold us back.
"The measure of who we are is what we do with what we have. -VINCE LOMBARDI
NKexquisite
Profile Joined January 2009
United States911 Posts
December 13 2011 17:47 GMT
#47
It's disappointing for those of us who pay for the pass to watch the games...
Whattttt Upppppppp Im Nesteaaaaaa!!
Loweryder
Profile Joined September 2011
Canada11 Posts
December 13 2011 17:56 GMT
#48
There should be an option between 'completely unacceptable' and 'disappointing, but no big deal'. What Naniwa did was extremely unprofessional and immature. If everyone considered starcraft 'just a game', then this type of behaviour would be perfectly fine, however everyone is clamoring to have starcraft be recognized as an esport, as a legitimate enterprise. If people want to take starcraft seriously, this is the kind of behaviour that can't be condoned. In a game, you can do whatever the hell you want, but in the 'world of esports', some degree of professionality is assumed.

On the other hand, saying that Naniwa should no longer be a progamer is completely ridiculous, he did not cheat and everything he did was 'within his rights' to do, it was just quite disappointing for the majority of his fans. While I never was a Naniwa fan to begin with, it will be even harder now for me to cheer for him as the 'foreigner hope'.
AbstractRDK
Profile Joined December 2011
Greece4 Posts
December 13 2011 18:00 GMT
#49
I don't think enough people understand what it really means to give the game away like that. So let me tell you what i think.

I think its completely unacceptable, that a professional player, throws a game away in a big event like that. Many people don't seem to realize what it means to be professional in any kind of sport. You are getting paid to do what you're doing, so unless something really important stops you from doing that, you have to play the game. I don't care if he would have tried to actually win the game or not, and that's not the point. The point is, apart from playing games, you're there to do a job.

People saying that GOM should have a better format are right. But that doesn't give the right to Naniwa (or anyone else) to not play the games he is supposed to play. Naniwa agreed to play in this tournament and he was aware of the format before the tournament started.

Can you imagine if u went to watch a Tennis game, and the game didn't have any impact on the tournament, and u had to watch for 15 minutes one player throwing the ball outside the court all the time? Can you imagine if u went to watch a football game, and one team doesn't care about the result, and they score own-goals for 90 minutes?

Naniwa eventually admitted that he should have gone for a 4gate, and imo any build that would end the game as quickly as possible while giving the crowd something to see would have been totally acceptable. You can lose the game however you want, you can lose it quickly in many ways, but at least do what you're supposed to do.

If we want e-Sports to be taken seriously in the future, we have to show good sportsmanship, good tournament formats and professionalism.
Wherewolf
Profile Joined December 2010
United States353 Posts
December 13 2011 18:08 GMT
#50
I don't really get why GOM would make them play that out, televised.
sc14s
Profile Joined March 2011
United States5052 Posts
December 13 2011 18:15 GMT
#51
On December 13 2011 23:46 Massing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 13 2011 23:43 carloselcoco wrote:
On December 13 2011 23:11 Grimmjow wrote:
such a big deal over a match that meant nothing in this tournament..


Still means a lot for sponsors and teams though.
Quantic and GomTV are paying Nani to play, not give up for free his game.


then they should figure out a system where played games have a sense

well it does up his overall win rate if he wins more games xD
Engore
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States1916 Posts
December 13 2011 18:16 GMT
#52
He should have just 4 gated like he said in the interview. That was my first thought when I heard about this. Not sure where people stand on if this was "fixed" or not. I mean he obviously wanted to end it quick, but he could claim that he was trying to win with probe rush too. It wasn't like CoCa just leaving while he was ahead.
EG | Liquid | Dignitas | FXO | SlayerS | TSL | iS | Fan of pretty much all players ^_^ | SeleCT <3 forever! Axslav <3
strength
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United States493 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-12-13 18:16:50
December 13 2011 18:16 GMT
#53
There was no reason for a professional to do this. We dont see NFL players who dont make it into the playoffs walk around in games and just throw it away.... this makes no sense.
Scorch
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Austria3371 Posts
December 13 2011 18:24 GMT
#54
I understand why Naniwa did it, but I find it unacceptable for a professional gamer to act like that. Then again, I won't lose any sleep over a matter like that.
I guess 3 poll options fit me.
Giants92
Profile Joined October 2011
16 Posts
December 13 2011 18:27 GMT
#55
There was a lot of hype for the Naniwa vs. Nestea match, and even though it meant nothing I'm sure a bunch of fans would have loved to see it. Unfortunately, Naniwa acted without thinking and threw a game in front of thousands of people. He was given a great opportunity to compete, and he acted very unprofessionally. It's really too bad.
FidoDido
Profile Joined March 2011
United States1292 Posts
December 13 2011 18:33 GMT
#56
I don't understand why this argument is still in progress.
The verdict has already been handed out by GomTV(not publicly, but there is no need to announce it publicly to stir up more debates in the foreign community anyways), there isn't anything anyone here can say that will be read to change the decision made.
I won't go into details but you can be sure GomTV won't make the same mistake twice with the same player.
LGIMSeed FantasyToss~~ Hipster Seed fan before he made Code A
Slusher
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States19143 Posts
December 13 2011 18:43 GMT
#57
I personally laughed.
Carrilord has arrived.
RouaF
Profile Joined October 2010
France4120 Posts
December 13 2011 18:50 GMT
#58
If this was a random tournament forfeiting or rushing with probes wouldn't have mattered. But this was broadcasted and played on stage.
Novalisk
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Israel1818 Posts
December 13 2011 18:58 GMT
#59
It's a bad decision and just shows once again how easily Naniwa can lose touch with reality, and make stupid decisions on a whim. Even if it had no significance in the tournament standings, you should never forfeit a match when:

1. Thousands of people are watching, including your fans.

2. You are up against one of the best players in the world in a pressure-filled environment. Much better practice than ladder.
/commercial
eSu.Matix
Profile Joined March 2011
Bulgaria22 Posts
December 13 2011 18:59 GMT
#60
I don't like Nani but it's not a big deal at all...
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 15 16 17 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Krystianer vs sOs
SKillous vs ArT
MaNa vs Elazer
Spirit vs Gerald
Clem vs TBD
uThermal vs TBD
Reynor vs TBD
Lambo vs TBD
RotterdaM938
ComeBackTV 937
IndyStarCraft 397
CranKy Ducklings145
Rex120
3DClanTV 108
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 938
IndyStarCraft 397
Rex 120
ProTech68
StarCraft: Brood War
Horang2 13672
Hyuk 4277
Hyun 919
Barracks 689
firebathero 655
Larva 641
Mini 601
BeSt 382
EffOrt 245
sorry 71
[ Show more ]
ZerO 67
Last 63
Shinee 57
zelot 48
Free 39
scan(afreeca) 35
Noble 33
soO 23
NaDa 20
Soulkey 18
yabsab 12
Sacsri 12
Sharp 9
Movie 8
Bale 6
ajuk12(nOOB) 5
Dota 2
XcaliburYe672
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K933
shoxiejesuss629
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor240
Other Games
gofns12937
Happy492
Beastyqt461
SortOf98
ZerO(Twitch)13
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH318
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota2266
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3h 36m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
7h 36m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 23h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.