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On July 20 2011 17:01 Lunchador wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 06:17 Talin wrote:
Single elimination is standard in Starcraft, only recently some of the western SC2 tournaments have started experimenting with double elimination (and in most cases it went really bad, with all the double-BOX in the finals, extended series and stuff), so I can't see how it can be all that "wrong".
I'm pretty sure double elimination won't happen in Korea anyway. Or at least I hope. Double elimination gets you much better grand finals, and also greatly lowers the odds of a top player getting random'd out early in the tournament. Double elimination would work great for SC2 events. It's the extended series rulesets that are utter bull****.
But those rulesets always go hand in hand with double elimination because organizers always end up wanting to give the winners bracket finalist "an advantage". So it's either extended series, or worse - LB finalist having to win one BOX more. Either way, you get a dead grand finals where WB finalist is almost certain to win unless he gets drunk or something.
As for players getting knocked out earlier or later, as long as it's a BO5 series every result is legitimate. It's only the group play might be a bit dodgy, but real top players will overcome it 9 out of 10 times, and that 1 time they end up getting knocked out isn't a big deal anyway (if anything, it adds some flavor to it).
Players getting a second chance in a competitive environment feels wrong to me on a very fundamental level as well.
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On July 20 2011 02:36 p4NDemik wrote:
I don't particularly like the GSL Super Tournament huge single elimination format at all.
And I've never been a fan of the speed at which Code-A/Code-S are completed, and completed simultaneously. The storylines hardly seem to have any time to grow and develop, unlike the MSL and OSL where there is a build up for a few months before you get to the finals of a season. Each format Gom uses is far inferior in my eyes to OSL/MSL.
So by process of elimination I picked GSTL. As far as a team league goes it isn't optimal and is still way too short but its the thing I'm most interested in every week as far as Korean SC2 goes and it is headed in the right direction this season. Hopefully Gom will continue to expand the GSTL to 4-5 days a week and then begin to stretch out Code-A and Code-S.
Seriously, go Code-A for 3 weeks -> Up/Down for 1 week or whatever (I don't know how Up-down works anymore) -> then GSL Code-S for a month and a half/two months. You could follow players as they rise through Code-A/Code-S, have more time between matches to sufficiently build some hype, and have more time between tournaments to make them feel a little more prestigious.
i fully agree...well said!
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It seems there is a long line of new viewers to Gom voting, or that the new GSTL format is turning people off. The last vote was a land slide. GSTL took it at over 60%.
As far as my opinion goes, the new GSTL format could use a lot of work. They extended the season and hedged the games to two days a week. With some teams finishing up their regular season in early July, and others not beginning until Mid August.
I was a huge fan of the previous GSTL, and had high hopes for the new format. Turns out my hopes were severely let down. I have no idea who decided the scheduling but it is a travesty. Watching teams go head to head is the best part of any competitive scene, but they need a revamp because this is as dry as burnt toast. I was so excited when TL developed the Fantasy Team League but the current format has turned me off to the point where I don't even manage my team.
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On July 20 2011 00:13 tree.hugger wrote:
Where's the option for common sense seeding like OSL, MSL, and every other sport on the planet?
This plox
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As I've heard here before the thing I want changed is the GSTL happening more often. The guys mostly have empty scedules it seems so why not make them play more often? Make it like PL and I'll be happy.
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I actually like the Super Tourney style, or like the original few GSLs where there was a big qualifier and then it was single elim after that. It makes it exciting with a ton of money on the line.
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On July 20 2011 23:38 Talin wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 17:01 Lunchador wrote:On July 20 2011 06:17 Talin wrote:
Single elimination is standard in Starcraft, only recently some of the western SC2 tournaments have started experimenting with double elimination (and in most cases it went really bad, with all the double-BOX in the finals, extended series and stuff), so I can't see how it can be all that "wrong".
I'm pretty sure double elimination won't happen in Korea anyway. Or at least I hope. Double elimination gets you much better grand finals, and also greatly lowers the odds of a top player getting random'd out early in the tournament. Double elimination would work great for SC2 events. It's the extended series rulesets that are utter bull****. But those rulesets always go hand in hand with double elimination because organizers always end up wanting to give the winners bracket finalist "an advantage". So it's either extended series, or worse - LB finalist having to win one BOX more. Either way, you get a dead grand finals where WB finalist is almost certain to win unless he gets drunk or something. As for players getting knocked out earlier or later, as long as it's a BO5 series every result is legitimate. It's only the group play might be a bit dodgy, but real top players will overcome it 9 out of 10 times, and that 1 time they end up getting knocked out isn't a big deal anyway (if anything, it adds some flavor to it). Players getting a second chance in a competitive environment feels wrong to me on a very fundamental level as well.
I honestly don't see the difference between getting a second chance in having a loser's bracket and getting a second chance in having a Bo3.
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I hate the GSL, Super Tourney and the GSTL format. MSL/OSL format is great, and the SPL format this year with both winners league and proleague is the perfect teamleague format,
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On July 21 2011 11:32 Kalent wrote:
I hate the GSL, Super Tourney and the GSTL format. MSL/OSL format is great, and the SPL format this year with both winners league and proleague is the perfect teamleague format,
Totally agreed. Why try to reinvent the wheel when BW has solved the problem for you? SPL has been sick.
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On July 20 2011 02:36 p4NDemik wrote:
I don't particularly like the GSL Super Tournament huge single elimination format at all.
And I've never been a fan of the speed at which Code-A/Code-S are completed, and completed simultaneously. The storylines hardly seem to have any time to grow and develop, unlike the MSL and OSL where there is a build up for a few months before you get to the finals of a season. Each format Gom uses is far inferior in my eyes to OSL/MSL.
So by process of elimination I picked GSTL. As far as a team league goes it isn't optimal and is still way too short but its the thing I'm most interested in every week as far as Korean SC2 goes and it is headed in the right direction this season. Hopefully Gom will continue to expand the GSTL to 4-5 days a week and then begin to stretch out Code-A and Code-S.
Seriously, go Code-A for 3 weeks -> Up/Down for 1 week or whatever (I don't know how Up-down works anymore) -> then GSL Code-S for a month and a half/two months. You could follow players as they rise through Code-A/Code-S, have more time between matches to sufficiently build some hype, and have more time between tournaments to make them feel a little more prestigious.
Couldn't agree more.
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Going with the GSTL, Code A / S seems boring after a while.
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None of those  .
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BW-style Proleague is way better than GSTL right now, simply because all teams play everyone else. Doing it daily means more exposure for players and makes it easier to promote teams (also increasing possible sponsorship exposure; which can only be a good thing for companies wanting to invest in ESPORTS), while at the same time forces players to a create a more developed schedule and experience different play,styles. Also, right now, if the GSL rounds are stretched over a longer time period and are much deeper in digging for players like MSL's Survivor Tourney; given the volatility in SC2, we'll see the best have more chances to rise to the top; GSL Code A doesn't give enough chances for players to rise up the ranks.
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GSTL for sure, it's just a more exciting format. There was a similar poll previously and GSTL won that, I guess the season format isn't quite as exciting but if this poll came out right around playoff time I'm confident GSTL would win outright.
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On July 21 2011 19:40 LurkersGonnaLurk wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 11:32 Kalent wrote:
I hate the GSL, Super Tourney and the GSTL format. MSL/OSL format is great, and the SPL format this year with both winners league and proleague is the perfect teamleague format, Totally agreed. Why try to reinvent the wheel when BW has solved the problem for you? SPL has been sick.
Agreed too.
But if i have to chose, i'll say GSTL
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GSTL format make for a very exiting match between two teams.
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On July 20 2011 03:54 The Final Boss wrote:Show nested quote +On July 20 2011 00:48 GhandiEAGLE wrote:On July 20 2011 00:13 SpunXtain wrote:
Now half the time its just going to be teams like FXO being roflstomped each week, and the best teams will rarely meet. Well, not really, now that they are FXOKorea they have a chancce of winning some games, especially since FXOKorea can use Sheth (in case you are wondering, FXO has acquired team fOu, and they have joined FXO!) That's not true: - FXOKorea and FXOpen are different teams.
- Sheth is no longer in Korea and he won't be because he didn't enjoy it.
- Also the only team fOu or FXOKorea would ever beat reliably in the GSTL is FXOpen.
That being said, the only reason a third of the matches so far have been FXO getting smashed is because they're playing the first five weeks whereas the next five weeks should be more focused on Group A. Who isn't excited to watch more of SlayerS, MvP, oGs, TSL, Prime, and F. United (  THORZAIN FIGHTING!!!!!!!!). I'm sure the next five weeks will be more exciting games. That being said I wish that GSTL occurred more often than two days a week, I think I would enjoy it a lot more. GSTL got my vote.
FXOKorea and FXOpen are NOT different teams at all. They are all the same team, and players can choose to live and practice in either of their houses in Korea or Malaysia, as stated by Unstable.
EDIT: They exist as separate entities for this current GSTL, of course.
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Can't believe how close the votes are for Code S/A and GSTL. 
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On July 20 2011 00:13 SpunXtain wrote:
Would have been GSL in previous seasons; now they're trying to cater to allow more sh1tty teams in. It was better when it was the top 8; it gave teams a reason to train and prove they belonged not only as individuals, but as a cohesive group that can supplement eachother's strengths and weaknesses. Now half the time its just going to be teams like FXO being roflstomped each week, and the best teams will rarely meet.
LOL. Bet he feels stupid now that the top teams in each group are the new teams nsh/mvp and the past champs slayers are at the bottom. That and FXO allkilled IM
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voted code a/s. individual leagues are always cool, though maybe when i become a huge fan of a team ill prefer Team league
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EPT
