EPT
Flash2.
Stats3.
Jaedong4.
Fantasy5.
Horang26.
Baby7.
Stork8.
Firebathero9.
Bisu10.
RoroCBNC:
Movie, ZeroPower Rank 03/01/2011 - Page 17
| Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet |
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popzags
Poland604 Posts
Flash2. Stats3. Jaedong4. Fantasy5. Horang26. Baby7. Stork8. Firebathero9. Bisu10. RoroCBNC: Movie, Zero | ||
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4vvhiplash7
South Africa392 Posts
On March 28 2011 17:11 popzags wrote: 1. Flash2. Stats3. Jaedong4. Fantasy5. Horang26. Baby7. Stork8. Firebathero9. Bisu10. RoroCBNC: Movie, Zerothats works for me | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On March 28 2011 16:25 Iplaythings wrote: It's KeSPA rating... and he won an OSL whereas Flash / JD didn't even make a final, he's BOUND to be higher. Please dont judge with KeSPA, do Elo, please. Please! Also Putting Fantasy above Stats because of KeSPA is plain dumb, he beat Fantasy and made 2 all kills, played like a fucking monster truck PvP and played one of the best noone bisu PvZ vs Zero. How can Fantasy be above because of KeSPA rating (the dumbest system ever where only 2 persons can be above 1k or so, its retarded how on can be at 2k, another at 3k and then maybe 1-2 at 1000-2000 and then rest is below 1000. LOLOLOL KeSPA ranking isn't dumb at all. Don't go throwing hissy fits simply because your boy may be losing his top rank on there. | ||
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Hazard
Norway594 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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Elroi
Sweden5595 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
 But ya, Flash still definitely feels like the best player in the world, favourite against anyone. Jaedong had a pretty sick month, his hit-list includes Bisu, Stork and Fantasy and I think he's kinda getting back his scariness factor. I would probably favour him against anyone but Flash. Stats had the statistically best month of them (80% compared to 75, 75, 75, not that it matters much XD) and went on an awesome and impressive rampage, but he wasn't even on the PR last month. Dunno what to make of him at the moment. Fantasy has been amazing as well, obviously, but in my eyes getting smashed in both his head to head games vs the other Top 4 players that he encountered hurts a bit. Dunno. They're standing out from the rest at the moment, that's for sure though. After them I have no idea. There are just so many players doing kinda well, with random players delivering all-kills all of a sudden (like CH and Movie)... I haven't been able to watch all games played either due to work, so I'm not sure at all who deserves the spots 5-10.  | ||
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Tribulation
Norway86 Posts
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
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flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
I've been thinking about this issue more than I ought to and here's my first take on a list (and why): 1. Flash (9-3) Yes, Flash looked a bit vulnerable this month, dropping 3 games in SWL to Calm, Tyson and Baby. And I don't think he's had the best month of anyone either. But ask yourself this: how much of that is because Flash has become weaker and how much of that is because KT simply hasn't needed him as much? Cruising through his MST group with an easy 2-0, Flash is still the safest bet to win a Starleague and despite his horrible flop last December, his overall stats since the start of last season stand testament to that fact. 46-11. Flash is still winning 80% of his games. 2. Jaedong (9-3) I struggled a bit with who to put at #2. As far as I'm concerned there are 3 candidates. Ultimately I settled on Jaedong. It's not because Jaedong beat Fantasy in head-to-head (actually, until the end that game was very intense) and it's not because JD became the first Zerg to AK (I don't value JD's AK over either of Stats's). Last month we saw beautiful Starcraft from Jaedong and ever since that AK against Samsung he has had that aura about him again. I'm counting on another deep SL run from the dong. 3. Stats (12-3) Statistically nobody has had a better month than Stats, which is why Stats is my second #2. A couple players might have a higher win percentage but over fewer games. And it's not just the percentage -- look who he beat. And watch the games. Stats played like an S-class player and it should not come as a surprise that it was Stats who broke the ranks held by TBLS + Fanta + Hydra who all were over 2200 -- the only players over 2200 -- for months, plural, and is only 2 ELO points behind Stork. I asked earlier if Flash's lack of flair last month was really his fault and I think Stats is the answer. With Stats playing, Flash wasn't even needed. A burst of power at the end of the season catapulted this boy up to #3 in WL results (21-9, +12) behind only Flash (25-5, +20) and Bisu (28-10, +18) and #3 on my PR as well. EDIT: Stats is the only player whose rank could change based on tonight's results. 4. Fantasy (12-4) No question about it, Fantasy was a monster last month, proving himself worthy of last season's OSL gold. While Bisu was dropping the ball, Fantasy was picking up the slack. And if what Coach Oov said was correct, Fantasy is going to be rewarded for this effort with the coveted KeSPA #1 rank. I've seen Flash fans and Fantasy haters talking smack because of this and it's totally undeserved. What the KeSPA #1 rank means is that Fantasy has accomplished more recently than Flash has, which is true (remember that Bigfile MSL + KA2 OSL were more than 7 months ago now). And I think that there are a couple of things Fantasy actually does better than Flash. His vulture play, for instance, which was really spectacular in his recent game against the Dong. But there's a reason why Fantasy is down here and Flash is up there: there's still just a touch of scrappiness to Fantasy's game play that Flash simply doesn't have. Can Fantasy defend his new title or will Flash reclaim the throne? 5. Baby (10-4) It should be said right now that there's a pretty big gap between 4 and 5. Big, but not huge. Not long after Stats, Baby also slid into the 2200 club and has cemented his place with wins over Sea, Kal, Stork and Flash and all around solid play. And despite taking a loss, his game against Zero was something to behold. I feel that Baby has been something of a dark horse of late, falling 1-2 last season in OSL to Kal and 1-2 to the group that killed Flash in MSL and attaining results that were... good but not great in PL. But being a dark horse has its advantages. If Baby can continue fighting top players on even ground then I see no reason why he can't -- finally -- make it somewhere in individual league. 6. Firebathero (7-3) This placement surprises me, but it must be understood that as big as the gap is between 4 and 5, it pales next to the gap between 5 and 6. FBH had a big month, scoring big wins against big names and playing shockingly impressive SC, but one would be hard placed to call him a favorite to make big results next season considering that his new found power comes after and 11 game loss streak, the longest in his career. FBH has been instrumental in restoring dignity to Ace and he has momentum right now, but can he produce results? Does he have the skill to go somewhere in SL? Hard to say, but he did qualify for the MST so he will have that chance. 7. Horang2 (6-1) Another placement that is something of a surprise. I've always regarded Horang2 as a sniper, plain and simple, but this past month he has shown more depth than I gave him credit for, tearing his way through almost everybody he's faced, 10-1 if you count the offline MST where he tackled hyvaa, 3-killing Grape, Great and Stork on Khan and dismantling his MST group 2-0. Like with FBH I fear this momentum may be short lived, but there's not question that Horang2 is hot right now. And oh yeah, his one loss? FBH. 8. Stork (5-6) If PR were a results rank then Stork wouldn't even be here right now. And surely, at first glance he looks like he's in a big slump, only once last month being able to string 2 wins together despite being the star for his team. But look who the players are who toppled him: JD, Horang2, Flash, Zero, Baby, Shuttle, which is practically a who's who list of Protoss killers. By skill, Stork fans don't really have that much to worry about and I would suggest Stork as a strong candidate for a good season. The issue here is momentum, which Stork hasn't been able to find. It might not seem fair to blame Stork for Samsung Khan's misery, but without him scoring multikills, Khan finished there season with an LL on the score table for three weeks in a row. In WL, where a single player can carry a team, this isn't something we want to see. 9. Bisu (5-4) Bisu... what happened? One might argue that Bisu should be higher, and indeed it's hard to see anything in particular that's wrong with Bisu's play, except perhaps that Bisu's HT play seems to be lagging behind the competition. He's still winning more than he's losing, pulling through his MST group... but his last win in SWL was on March 8. Where Free embarrassingly dismantled him with two unscouted, undefended hidden expos (in 2005 an acceptable loss, in 2011?). 10. Zero (7-5) Like Stork, Zero has been struggling a little to get momentum, although unlike Stork he's a bit of a dark horse. IMO Zero is one of the most underrated players in Starcraft. By ELO, Zero remains the #2 ranked ZvT and #2 ranked ZvP and if you've watched his games it shows. His win over Baby, his win over Flash the month before, his 5-0 record over Stork in 2011... If only Zero could square around his ZvZ he'd pose a serious threat for a SL gold. CBNC Free - welcome back. We didn't see you at all in February. Last month we saw some spectacular play from you and so horrendous play. Get some more consistency if you want to move up. Sea - similar to Stork, you've been forced to try to carry a team without support and similarly you've displayed great strength but you keep getting blocked from multikills by strong players. Without momentum I can't really put you on the list. WL is a time for heroes and despite the name of your team you haven't succeeded in being on. Roro - is one of those players who tends to get thought of as an S-class indicator. His play always seems to solid and well-rounded, but it's hard to call him spectacular. He consistently turns out solid results, but then he has lopsided records like 0-7 against Bisu, 0-5 against Flash, 1-8 against Jaedong. He really needs to prove himself against one of these three players before he will truly cement himself alone. | ||
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mnesthes
5433 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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Oystein
Norway1602 Posts
On March 29 2011 09:01 Mortality wrote: 9. Bisu (5-4) Bisu... what happened? One might argue that Bisu should be higher, and indeed it's hard to see anything in particular that's wrong with Bisu's play, except perhaps that Bisu's HT play seems to be lagging behind the competition. He's still winning more than he's losing, pulling through his MST group... but his last win in SWL was on March 8. Where Free embarrassingly dismantled him with two unscouted, undefended hidden expos (in 2005 an acceptable loss, in 2011?). While I am probably always kind of biased when I talk about Bisu I still think I am rather objective for a fanboy. Anyhow I would probably put him a bit higher and just give him some benefit of the doubt. While his record this month is kinda shaky, the PR have always been more than just results and stats and there have not been much of a decline in his play outside of his PvP (and even there I think it has more to do with the competition getting better at the matchup + some bad luck\getting predictable in BO). Looking at his losses they come from an in form Jaedong, where he lost simply due to trying to cut some corners against the best ZvP player on the planet and skip the second cannon (he also was insanely close to scouting the hydras in the center with his DT). One straight up build order loss vs Leta with a 1gate expo build vs 2fac, tho this can also be attributed to Bisu simply being predictable in PvT (hes used this same 1gate->lot->range goon->expo in lots of his PvT games lately). He got another loss against an in form player in Stats where he once again was at a build order disadvantage and Stats never gave up his advantage playing a rock solid game beating him pretty soundly. His game vs Free was pretty bad tho. Beside a rather scrappy game against Perfectman he looked rock solid in all his wins, and really nothing in his wins gives any indication of worse play than hes been putting up earlier in Winners league. The only 2 games you can really look at and say "well Bisu is playing bad" is his games against Free and Perfectman. If you look at him overall hes got one matchup that is light years ahead of everyone else (PvZ), and one matchup where hes one of the best. While it might not always look pretty you can`t argue with the results his putting up in PvT (17-3 in his last 20 PvTs with losses against Flash, Hiya and Leta) and currently tied in #1 PvT ELO with Stork. His PvP have been kinda shaky lately, but beside his 2 last losses against Free and Stats Bisu have been beating everyone not named Kal or Stork for a looong time in PvP, in fact ever since he lost to Stats in the PL finals in August. Hes still #2 in PvP ELO despite losing 4 of his last 5 PvPs. Do we really think that its gonna be harder to play against FBH or Horang2 than its gonna be against Bisu? If we do value short term result heavily he should at least be placed above Stork, who is performing similarly "bad". | ||
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Holgerius
Sweden16951 Posts
No #3 for him. | ||
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HopLight
Sweden999 Posts
1. Flash 2. Jaedong (The 1-2 ]Natural order is restored)3. Fantasy4. Bisu (yes, that's right Bisu is still scary despite a few setbacks but he needs to play better to get even higher)5. BaBy6. Stats (I could actually see dropping Stats even further)7. Stork8. Horang29. firebathero10. RorO | ||
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POWEROUTAGE
Singapore884 Posts
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popzags
Poland604 Posts
Flash 2. Jaedong3. Fantasy4. Stats5. Firebathero6. Baby7. Stork8. Bisu9. Horang210. RoroAfter corrections, this got to be it with Zero, Movie and Reality as CNBC. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
On March 29 2011 13:43 Oystein wrote: While I am probably always kind of biased when I talk about Bisu I still think I am rather objective for a fanboy. Anyhow I would probably put him a bit higher and just give him some benefit of the doubt. While his record this month is kinda shaky, the PR have always been more than just results and stats and there have not been much of a decline in his play outside of his PvP (and even there I think it has more to do with the competition getting better at the matchup + some bad luck\getting predictable in BO). Looking at his losses they come from an in form Jaedong, where he lost simply due to trying to cut some corners against the best ZvP player on the planet and skip the second cannon (he also was insanely close to scouting the hydras in the center with his DT). One straight up build order loss vs Leta with a 1gate expo build vs 2fac, tho this can also be attributed to Bisu simply being predictable in PvT (hes used this same 1gate->lot->range goon->expo in lots of his PvT games lately). He got another loss against an in form player in Stats where he once again was at a build order disadvantage and Stats never gave up his advantage playing a rock solid game beating him pretty soundly. His game vs Free was pretty bad tho. Beside a rather scrappy game against Perfectman he looked rock solid in all his wins, and really nothing in his wins gives any indication of worse play than hes been putting up earlier in Winners league. The only 2 games you can really look at and say "well Bisu is playing bad" is his games against Free and Perfectman. If you look at him overall hes got one matchup that is light years ahead of everyone else (PvZ), and one matchup where hes one of the best. While it might not always look pretty you can`t argue with the results his putting up in PvT (17-3 in his last 20 PvTs with losses against Flash, Hiya and Leta) and currently tied in #1 PvT ELO with Stork. His PvP have been kinda shaky lately, but beside his 2 last losses against Free and Stats Bisu have been beating everyone not named Kal or Stork for a looong time in PvP, in fact ever since he lost to Stats in the PL finals in August. Hes still #2 in PvP ELO despite losing 4 of his last 5 PvPs. Do we really think that its gonna be harder to play against FBH or Horang2 than its gonna be against Bisu? If we do value short term result heavily he should at least be placed above Stork, who is performing similarly "bad". One key point here is that skill != hotness. I think we can safely be 99+% confident that Bisu is more skilled than Horang2 and FBH, which is why I commented that I feel I they may be too high on my ranking. Nevertheless, both of them were undeniably hot last month, attracting a lot of attention for their strong results against strong players. | ||
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VGhost
United States3613 Posts
I'm trying to decide whether ACE's great showing in the MST is due to increasing skill on ACE, declining overall skill, or both. | ||
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