EPTBest GSL Format?
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Keype
Sweden455 Posts
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CreationSoul
Romania231 Posts
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Pixel.
Netherlands287 Posts
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cYaN
Norway3322 Posts
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GTR
51393 Posts
should have just used the dual tournament format that has been used for over nine years in the bw scene. pretty easy to understand and placings are always determined in five games. | ||
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pred470r
Bulgaria3265 Posts
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canucks12
Canada812 Posts
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storm8ring3r
Germany227 Posts
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Hoju
United States449 Posts
Tough to say. | ||
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uNiGNoRe
Germany1115 Posts
- the outcome of the groups is less predictable, thus more exciting - every single game counts - you get to see more different match ups - your favorite has two chances to advance, as the groups first or second I personally prefer the group play of GSL4. | ||
JayDee_
548 Posts
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seiferoth10
3362 Posts
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Dromar
United States2145 Posts
Technically there's no reason for there to be less one-sided games with the new format. BUT, that second game that would be completely boring, is instead a matchup against a different player, different race, etc, and so there's more of an illusion of "he could still win the game." There's also more of a feeling of "every game counts." Another thing that I actually kind of like is that the games are frontloaded by code A matches. It's like a salad before a meal; not that great, but it's filling, and it makes you appreciate the main course more. I think in general there's a positive response toward the new format, even if not because people actually like the format more, but rather because the games have been much better. Quite the majority of the code S games played in group stages were recommended by vote. | ||
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Roggay
Switzerland6320 Posts
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Aragos
France182 Posts
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liaf
Norway318 Posts
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Mikilatov
United States3897 Posts
On January 15 2011 19:48 GTR wrote: the group format would be fine if the matches determined after the initial two weren't so dumb. should have just used the dual tournament format that has been used for over nine years in the bw scene. pretty easy to understand and placings are always determined in five games. Exactly. I love the GSL format, but it'd be perfect if they did winners/winners and losers/losers instead of this messed up shit they're doing now. | ||
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Euronyme
Sweden3804 Posts
Saw the game with Nada vs Idra? It was just about who'd get second and first in the group, so nada went for a thor drop on metal, just to not reveal any more of his strategy. You kinda feel robbed off the epic epic epic show match you were in for. Other than that I do like group play, but imo it should only be for ro32. Switch it up to brackets in ro16!. | ||
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Kanil
United States1713 Posts
MSL-style groups > GSL3 bracket > GSL4 groups. | ||
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Heimatloser
Germany1494 Posts
On January 15 2011 22:22 Kanil wrote: I don't mind groups in theory, but the group format is awful. MSL-style groups > GSL3 bracket > GSL4 groups. at least ro32 should have been msl style. ro16 im fine with gsl style | ||
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.Carnage
United States99 Posts
On January 15 2011 20:11 canucks12 wrote: I like the GSL 4 format a lot better because it makes it possible for a good player, that just so happens to go up against a powerhouse, to still advance. It helps to ensure that the later rounds will be filled with quality players, and very few players that got lucky draws. I voted for GSL3 but arguments like this have really made me understand that the GSL4 format really is better, thanks. | ||
Plexa
Aotearoa39261 Posts
 the ODT groups (now MSL groups) would be sooo much better. The group from today would have played out so much differently, say something like this:+ Show Spoiler + MC > clide MKP > Jinro MC vs MKP Jinro vs Clide And if MKP and Jinro won, we'd have Jinro vs MC for the final set. Makes a lot more sense than the current format | ||
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Fraidnot
United States824 Posts
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OTIX
Sweden491 Posts
On January 15 2011 20:59 JayDee_ wrote: I wish they did a 32 person double elimination tourney. That would be most fair imo. I suppose that would take too many games? Double elim makes for some really anticlimactic finals. | ||
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MrMotionPicture
United States4327 Posts
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Karasandra
United States1 Post
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GrapeD
Canada679 Posts
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tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
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Cel.erity
United States4890 Posts
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chameleonism
United States31 Posts
The argument can be made that all you have to do is win and you will move on but the fact that it is group play yet you don't play everyone in the group seems competitively imbalanced. | ||
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blackbrrd
Norway477 Posts
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Kurr
Canada2338 Posts
Would be a lot more interesting with better mixing. | ||
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annYeong(o11)
Canada784 Posts
There are 2 games (1 and 2), after that we have two winners (1W and 2W) and two losers (1L and 2L) The next games are a winners match (1W vs. 2W) and a losers match (1L vs. 2L) The winner of 1W vs 2W advances, the loser of 1W vs. 2W faces the winner of 1L vs. 2L, and the loser of 1L vs 2L is out. The winner of W vs. L advances. Also, I;m not really a fan of having 2 rounds of group stages (spoiler for GSL Ro8 coming) + Show Spoiler + Because we can get odd rematches like another IdrA vs Jinro match, which we've already seen in the Ro32 What was so wrong witht eh MSL bracket system that they felt they had to change them? | ||
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
Good games everywhere. It's like my dream has come true! | ||
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mnck
Denmark1518 Posts
Fruitdealer going all the way through the brackets facing mostly Terrans, and cheesing his way to win against InCa. You got the feeling he was kinda lucky with the brackets. | ||
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Brewed Tea
United States124 Posts
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Silidons
United States2813 Posts
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bearhug
United States999 Posts
On January 16 2011 01:58 chameleonism wrote: A true round robin needs to be adopted otherwise you can have someone at a slight advantage and someone at a slight disadvantage since you may dodge someone in a group. I am sure MarineKing was thrilled that he didn't have to play the GSL3 champion, MC, who has been steam rolling everyone (up until last night at least). The argument can be made that all you have to do is win and you will move on but the fact that it is group play yet you don't play everyone in the group seems competitively imbalanced. mkp all killed ogs including mc on Jan 14th. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=184239 | ||
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Zim23
United States1681 Posts
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darklordjac
Canada2231 Posts
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ranjutan
United States636 Posts
Double elimination brackets. | ||
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supersoft
Germany3729 Posts
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TheKanAry
United States149 Posts
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Myles
United States5162 Posts
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TheDna
Germany577 Posts
On January 15 2011 22:22 Kanil wrote: I don't mind groups in theory, but the group format is awful. MSL-style groups > GSL3 bracket > GSL4 groups. I completely agree on the first part. I dont know MSL groups. But everybody should play against everyone in that group and ties should be played out that would be much better.. Look at poor jinro having to play MK.prime and MC twice.. While MK and MC got a free win from playing rainbow.. | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
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Sworn
Canada920 Posts
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Ownos
United States2147 Posts
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thopol
Japan4560 Posts
The GSL group format is terrible though. I have no idea what they were thinking. I remember casters saying that it was the best way to rank people 1-4 in fewer games, but MSL is waaaaaay better at doing that. All this said, I don't really care what the GSL does. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
A full round robin is the best, although I don't know if they'd have time for the tiebreakers. | ||
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Mista_Masta
Netherlands557 Posts
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Buddhist
United States658 Posts
If this tournament is going to have such a large prize pool, and be so prestigious, why does the format have to be SO TERRIBLE? Group format works too if every match is bo3 instead of bo1. That way one two players who could clearly both win the whole thing won't definitely get removed in ro8 (idra and jinro, for example). I really don't understand why any tournament that is trying to be serious isn't both bo>3+, AND double or triple elimination. It really makes no sense. Yes, it would take more time to do. It's worth it though with something so big. | ||
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darmousseh
United States3437 Posts
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havox_
Germany442 Posts
This format is still way better than a single elimination format! Best would still be a full Bo3 group format (with all players facing each other) or DE (Bo3s, Round of 16 Bo5). | ||
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xtfftc
United Kingdom2343 Posts
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notrangerjoe
110 Posts
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SilentDrop
Brazil29 Posts
For me, this is completely wrong and boring (GSL 4 format - BO1 grouping). All games should be at least BO3. Bad things about the current format: 1- Some players have to be prepared against one race only while others dont. 2- Its not a complete Round-Robin 3- You dont have enough games to figure your opponent out, leaving enough room for luck and randomness This game is not like chess or tennis, because it does have surprise elements, and it should always be at least a BO3. | ||
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Nizaris
Belgium2230 Posts
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Mortician
Bulgaria2332 Posts
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MadNeSs
Denmark1507 Posts
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LOLDOZER
Russian Federation24 Posts
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HavoK.
United States172 Posts
On January 15 2011 19:48 GTR wrote: the group format would be fine if the matches determined after the initial two weren't so dumb. should have just used the dual tournament format that has been used for over nine years in the bw scene. pretty easy to understand and placings are always determined in five games. Legit i completely agree | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
Why can't A hit C and B hit D? Or A and D and B and C? | ||
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Mainland
Canada551 Posts
MC vs Nada Clide vs MK Idra vs Jinro With the groups format, all of those players got to advance. If it were single elim, then we'd be seeing 3 of them gone before ro32 and 3 of LiveForever, LegalMind, Inca, SanZenith, Ensnare, and Check (although I like the last two) in their places | ||
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Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
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Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
What I'd like to see: mix brackets more, so in RO16 -> RO8 you are guaranteed not to play those you played RO32. BO1 kind of sucks. groups with 3 of one race, is unfair towards those 3 players, since they need to practice 2 MU vs the 4th guy's 1. But it feels like this format is however better in sending good players forward, since it's unlikely that a 'bad' player can move forward by meeting only 'bad' players(and in same fashion, it's less likely superb players will be knocked out by meeting only superb players). | ||
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caelym
United States6421 Posts
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Wood
United Kingdom6 Posts
The MSL group stages style still has the same inherent flaws as the GSL group stage system, and the round robin idea has the problem of tie breakers and too long days of competition. Going into brackets in the ro32 just seems like the right thing to do. I guess it's because every tournament in existence (maybe a slight exaggeration) seems to do it this way. | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
For those unfamiliar it's: Game 1: A vs B Game 2: C vs D Game 3: Winner of Game 1 vs Winner of Game 2 Game 4: Loser of Game 1 vs Loser of Game 2 Game 5: Loser of Game 3 vs Winner of Game 4 Game 6: Winner of Game 3 vs Winner of Game 5 Game 7: If the winner of game 5 wins game 6, then rematch of game 6. Basically it's a "true" double elimination bracket. | ||
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splidge
United Kingdom1 Post
The disadvantage of a full DE tournament is that it's not as exciting to watch - the grand final is quite often a repeat of an earlier game, with the earlier winner having to only win one match out of two as well as the improved chances having won earlier. Conversely, the current GSL brackets are set up to ensure the final is never a repeat of an earlier game; this has the unfortunate side effect of causing repeats earlier in the tournament (like the Idra v. Jinro rematch). | ||
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Froadac
United States6733 Posts
On January 15 2011 23:35 Plexa wrote: The groups are better, but they leave much to be desired the ODT groups (now MSL groups) would be sooo much better. The group from today would have played out so much differently, say something like this:+ Show Spoiler + MC > clide MKP > Jinro MC vs MKP Jinro vs Clide And if MKP and Jinro won, we'd have Jinro vs MC for the final set. Makes a lot more sense than the current format zomg. That's intuitive. | ||
Chill
Calgary25970 Posts
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Ironical
United States25 Posts
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AndAgain
United States2621 Posts
Ideally, you would have 1 big group where everybody played each other. Sense that's impractical, the current format (GSL4) is pretty good. | ||
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Black Gun
Germany4482 Posts
im also not entirely sure if the group format should be used for the ro16 or if bracket format would be better from there on. but im quite happy with the current system. | ||
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frozt_
United States234 Posts
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zerat00l
United States100 Posts
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Dangnabit
Canada6 Posts
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Yazilliclick
13 Posts
That said they could improve it like previously mentioned by making the groups be guaranteed 5 games (win-win, loser-loser, then the 1:1 players play). I'm guessing it just didn't occur to them? So far loving it though. GSL has shown they're working to change and improve each month whether it be changing the format, improving streams, hiring additional people to support it, helping foreign players etc... I just hope it gets to be profitable (or is it already?) and thus insures it's future. | ||
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latan
740 Posts
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joheinous
Iceland522 Posts
maybe they've just had enough time to distinguish themselves from the rest a bit more though so I dunno. | ||
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DarkGeneral
Canada328 Posts
Do people really prefer the jumbled and confusing GSL4 vs the straight forward GSL3? O,.o | ||
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Jampackedeon
United States2053 Posts
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Madsquare
Germany157 Posts
-they should still be BO3 -It should be full round robbin, not the stuff we have right now cheers, madsquare | ||
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BrahCJ
Australia659 Posts
On January 18 2011 23:47 DarkGeneral wrote: When I voted, I expected a 90% to 10% result in favor of GSL3... boy was I shocked O.o Do people really prefer the jumbled and confusing GSL4 vs the straight forward GSL3? O,.o Absolutely! After watching a night or two of the GSL4 format, there isn't really a reason why you shouldn't understand it. The GSL format means that someone can run into a VERY strong player, but still live to fight another day. I use the example of Marine King v Jinro. Two VERY good players. Jinro lost to Marine King, but that doesn't mean his journey ends. He gets a chance at redemption, and Marine King still needs to prove himself once (or twice) more. It takes away the "polarization" from each match. Say you're in a round of 32. Player D is better than player S. That doesn't mean player S shouldn't get a chance to progress through the season (provided he is good enough) and win more prize money. For all we know, in the round of 32, Player D could take the whole lot out. Player S could be a worthy second place contender. | ||
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durron597
United States12 Posts
On January 15 2011 22:22 Kanil wrote: I don't mind groups in theory, but the group format is awful. MSL-style groups > GSL3 bracket > GSL4 groups. +1 | ||
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hellohilo
United States68 Posts
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demitris
United States65 Posts
On January 15 2011 23:35 Plexa wrote: The groups are better, but they leave much to be desired the ODT groups (now MSL groups) would be sooo much better. The group from today would have played out so much differently, say something like this:+ Show Spoiler + MC > clide MKP > Jinro MC vs MKP Jinro vs Clide And if MKP and Jinro won, we'd have Jinro vs MC for the final set. Makes a lot more sense than the current format I think you mean Rainbow, Clide was in Idra's group. On January 17 2011 11:19 On_Slaught wrote: You can keep a group system but for the love of god match up the groups differently after the RO16.... Why can't A hit C and B hit D? Or A and D and B and C? I like the group system but its formatting is sightly flawed as you said. Players shouldn't be able to play each other in the Ro32 groups and than again in the Ro8. This is the sign of a bad system. Players should only have the chance to meet a second time in the tournament in the semi finals or finals. This is how the sytem should be setup: Key: place group round ex: 1A32 = 1st place of group A in the round of 32 Round of 16 Group A 1A32 1B32 2C32 2D32 Group B 1C32 1D32 2A32 2B32 Group C 1E32 1F32 2G32 2E32 Group D 1G32 1E32 2E32 2F32 Round of 8 Left Bracket 1A16 2D16 1B16 2C16 Right Bracket 1C16 2B16 1D16 2A16 | ||
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Angry.Zerg
Mexico305 Posts
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tritonice
United States119 Posts
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Goidelic
United States4 Posts
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Lotar
132 Posts
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Hikko
United States1126 Posts
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mardi
United States1164 Posts
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BigJoe
United States210 Posts
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kash2k
139 Posts
And later when game standard will be raised fights for Code S survival will be AMAZING! | ||
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Esp1noza
Russian Federation481 Posts
On January 15 2011 19:48 GTR wrote: the group format would be fine if the matches determined after the initial two weren't so dumb. should have just used the dual tournament format that has been used for over nine years in the bw scene. pretty easy to understand and placings are always determined in five games. My thought EXACTLY. Their current group format is SOOO dumb. And there are games not meaning much in this format, like Nada vs Idra, Nada even says in interview he make a BO that didn't work anymore, because that game didn't mean much. I think I wouldn't watch these meaningless games anymore. | ||
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Ajunta
Germany522 Posts
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Turgid
United States1623 Posts
On January 18 2011 23:47 DarkGeneral wrote: When I voted, I expected a 90% to 10% result in favor of GSL3... boy was I shocked O.o Do people really prefer the jumbled and confusing GSL4 vs the straight forward GSL3? O,.o I find GSL4 pretty easy to understand. What is difficult to get about the group stages for you? | ||
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ThunderGod
New Zealand897 Posts
On January 15 2011 22:47 Heimatloser wrote: at least ro32 should have been msl style. ro16 im fine with gsl style Agree 100%. msl group stage is more fair and always 5 games which is good. | ||
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Foresteye
United States23 Posts
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
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Alou
United States3748 Posts
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Manit0u
Poland17231 Posts
It's damn annoying that the vote is sitting there and glaring back at me and there's no option I could click... | ||
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Chill
Calgary25970 Posts
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corumjhaelen
France6884 Posts
On January 25 2011 03:57 Chill wrote: That's a pretty ridiculous request. So you want every poll about SC2 to have some tangential "I don't care about SC2" option? Well, I do feel obliged to click at random at those poll, because it is indeed annoying. And I'm not alone I see. It might even change the results marginally (well, it is not really important I guess). You could add the same option to all bw related poll too, or even those who are not related to any of the two I guess. Well provided those (still) exists. Or an option to hide polls (and why not PR, TSL, TPLD while we're at it). Well, I won't blame anyone if it doesn't happen^^ | ||
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BetterFasterStronger
United States604 Posts
On January 15 2011 19:37 Keype wrote: I just got to say this format is better since it gives people who face the beasts still have a chance to go out second place from the group. In the open seasons many good players were elimanted by the best early on. Just my vision on it as a whole. And ofc we can se more MUs of each player with groups. this sums it up | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
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Chill
Calgary25970 Posts
On January 25 2011 04:20 corumjhaelen wrote: Well, I do feel obliged to click at random at those poll, because it is indeed annoying. And I'm not alone I see. It might even change the results marginally (well, it is not really important I guess). You could add the same option to all bw related poll too, or even those who are not related to any of the two I guess. Well provided those (still) exists. Or an option to hide polls (and why not PR, TSL, TPLD while we're at it). Well, I won't blame anyone if it doesn't happen^^ If none of the choices are applicable to you, don't vote. Take that as your "Don't care" option. I have several polls left unvoted because I don't care about them. | ||
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Glimred
China888 Posts
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Eko200
United States101 Posts
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
GO GO GO GSL. love it so far ^^ SC2 Fighting. | ||
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danbel1005
United States1319 Posts
TYLER FIGHTING^^ Also, cant wait to watch Mondragon's games. | ||
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