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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
On January 09 2011 20:04 Samurai- wrote:
progamers care for proleague more then individual leagues..
So if somene wins OSL but fails MSL and proleague , another one wins MSL, fails osl and proleague, and flash for example totally dominate proleague, and fails MSL and OSL, i dont see why flash wouldnt be first..
It's really hard to compare domination in PL due to playtime. You could be on the greatest tear in OSL, yet receive little to no playtime in PL simply cause your team has a lotta other players. Or in the cause of WL, someone else on your team might be killing everyone. Not everyone has an awful team like KT/OZ and needs JD/Flash to 3 kill like every game.
On the other hand, there's a clear cut winner in OSL/MSL. I can easily say that Player X and Player Y will win the OSL and MSL. Plus on the topic of PR, it's pretty much always been like this. A lotta emphasis put on individual leagues.
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So Flash is the undisputed best player for a long time.
He lost a few games and those happened to drop him from the leagues, maybe he had a few bad days or something, so he gets punnished on the PR. Thats fine.
Some of you reason that if he dominates in proleague he should get top 3 under those who dominate the leagues, but is PR only about results or who is the best player right now I can't really tell anymore.
If Flash is back in his normal mode, we'll be able to tell from winnersleague, he is obviously the best player again because we know that Flash in good shape is the best player right now (its not even close). That is atleast until someone proves otherwise and you can't really prove otherwise by beating someone that isn't Flash in a BoX.
So not putting a good shape flash back on nr1 just because he played a few bad games the previous month isn't really going to tell the truth.
That he lost those games the previous month will show alot in ranks like KeSPA.
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since fantasy did a 3 kill, he will probably be on PR next time . Also Flash saved KT again :D
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On January 10 2011 00:22 StylishVODs wrote:
So Flash is the undisputed best player for a long time.
He lost a few games and those happened to drop him from the leagues, maybe he had a few bad days or something, so he gets punnished on the PR. Thats fine.
Some of you reason that if he dominates in proleague he should get top 3 under those who dominate the leagues, but is PR only about results or who is the best player right now I can't really tell anymore.
If Flash is back in his normal mode, we'll be able to tell from winnersleague, he is obviously the best player again because we know that Flash in good shape is the best player right now (its not even close). That is atleast until someone proves otherwise and you can't really prove otherwise by beating someone that isn't Flash in a BoX.
So not putting a good shape flash back on nr1 just because he played a few bad games the previous month isn't really going to tell the truth.
That he lost those games the previous month will show alot in ranks like KeSPA.
I know what you mean.
Flash is 3-0 this month beating Bisu and Fantasy. Stork is 2-1 this month beating Bisu and 1-1 vs freaking Hiya. There's obviously no reason why any sane person would put Stork above Flash next month if this continues. Stork's inability to pad his record when his team wins 4-2 without him is what makes Stork a 2nd rate progamer to the likes of Flash.
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On January 10 2011 01:01 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 00:22 StylishVODs wrote:
So Flash is the undisputed best player for a long time.
He lost a few games and those happened to drop him from the leagues, maybe he had a few bad days or something, so he gets punnished on the PR. Thats fine.
Some of you reason that if he dominates in proleague he should get top 3 under those who dominate the leagues, but is PR only about results or who is the best player right now I can't really tell anymore.
If Flash is back in his normal mode, we'll be able to tell from winnersleague, he is obviously the best player again because we know that Flash in good shape is the best player right now (its not even close). That is atleast until someone proves otherwise and you can't really prove otherwise by beating someone that isn't Flash in a BoX.
So not putting a good shape flash back on nr1 just because he played a few bad games the previous month isn't really going to tell the truth.
That he lost those games the previous month will show alot in ranks like KeSPA. I know what you mean. Flash is 3-0 this month beating Bisu and Fantasy. Stork is 2-1 this month beating Bisu and 1-1 vs freaking Hiya. There's obviously no reason why any sane person would put Stork above Flash next month if this continues. Stork's inability to pad his record when his team wins 4-2 without him is what makes Stork a 2nd rate progamer to the likes of Flash.
For me to be no. 1 in PR you've got to go deep into individual leagues and do something to deserve it. If Flash made a semis and tears up in WL I could see him ranked first, but, he went out in RO32 and RO16, that's not enough for me to see him rise to first in PR.
I don't doubt that he's the player who should be feared most right now but I believe PR needs to reflect results as well. Like it or not Stork is alive in both leagues right now. That said at the end of this month I could see Flash go to maybe 3rd if he continues to do well.
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On January 10 2011 01:22 revy wrote:
I don't doubt that he's the player who should be feared most right now but I believe PR needs to reflect results as well. Like it or not Stork is alive in both leagues right now. That said at the end of this month I could see Flash go to maybe 3rd if he continues to do well.
There's really no doubt that he should be 3rd as of right now, even to someone who really hates Flash. In fact, I think he should've been above JD last month because he really hadn't shown a decline in play except in 3 games, while JD has been sucking for a while now. But the fact that he lost in the SLs and won't be able to prove himself against the greatest players is something that can't be ignored, even after 2 months have passed. 3 maybe, but 2 is a bit too soon.
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On January 09 2011 22:00 ShadeR wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 20:04 Samurai- wrote:
progamers care for proleague more then individual leagues..
So if somene wins OSL but fails MSL and proleague , another one wins MSL, fails osl and proleague, and flash for example totally dominate proleague, and fails MSL and OSL, i dont see why flash wouldnt be first.. Because we all know the claim by by various Aclass and above players that proleague is more important to than individual league is not entirely true. Can you imagine the social backlash Flash or Jaedong would recieve if they said they didnt care very much for the team as long as they kept winning titles on their own? I'm not going to accuse any players of lying but life is also a game and to be sucessful at 'life' in most cultures an expression of selflessness is desired rather than one of selfishness.
Well except you know, Flash and Jaedong actually shows result in proleague while winning Starleagues. The A class+ players you said also shows better result in proleague then they do in Starleague as well. You can argue that because they have more playtime there but what is their excuse of not passing preliminary and qualifier/survivor? The B teamer will use more of their time to practice for starleague, that is a reason I would think that they would have some advantage on those A class players and knock them out.
On January 10 2011 00:22 StylishVODs wrote:
Some of you reason that if he dominates in proleague he should get top 3 under those who dominate the leagues, but is PR only about results or who is the best player right now I can't really tell anymore.
You're not also taking into account that those who will win msl/osl can also do good or dominate for their team in SWL. So they would have more of an advantage on those that won't win it.
If Flash fan keeps on going around about how "no one can beat flash in a Bo5" "he is still the best player right now" then this is just getting old. For people to beat him in a Bo5 maybe he should get his ass there first(lol I know he has for the last 6 league), some of you guys used this argument for Stork fans tries to say that Stork can probably beat Flash but you guys replies that he needs to get to the Bo5 against Flash first then prove it in previous PR. I'm just using it back.
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On January 10 2011 01:43 Monkeyshark wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2011 22:00 ShadeR wrote:On January 09 2011 20:04 Samurai- wrote:
progamers care for proleague more then individual leagues..
So if somene wins OSL but fails MSL and proleague , another one wins MSL, fails osl and proleague, and flash for example totally dominate proleague, and fails MSL and OSL, i dont see why flash wouldnt be first.. Because we all know the claim by by various Aclass and above players that proleague is more important to than individual league is not entirely true. Can you imagine the social backlash Flash or Jaedong would recieve if they said they didnt care very much for the team as long as they kept winning titles on their own? I'm not going to accuse any players of lying but life is also a game and to be sucessful at 'life' in most cultures an expression of selflessness is desired rather than one of selfishness. Well except you know, Flash and Jaedong actually shows result in proleague while winning Starleagues. The A class+ players you said also shows better result in proleague then they do in Starleague as well. You can argue that because they have more playtime there but what is their excuse of not passing preliminary and qualifier/survivor? The B teamer will use more of their time to practice for starleague, that is a reason I would think that they would have some advantage on those A class players and knock them out. Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 00:22 StylishVODs wrote:
Some of you reason that if he dominates in proleague he should get top 3 under those who dominate the leagues, but is PR only about results or who is the best player right now I can't really tell anymore. You're not also taking into account that those who will win msl/osl can also do good or dominate for their team in SWL. So they would have more of an advantage on those that won't win it. If Flash fan keeps on going around about how "no one can beat flash in a Bo5" "he is still the best player right now" then this is just getting old. For people to beat him in a Bo5 maybe he should get his ass there first(lol I know he has for the last 6 league), some of you guys used this argument for Stork fans tries to say that Stork can probably beat Flash but you guys replies that he needs to get to the Bo5 against Flash first then prove it in previous PR. I'm just using it back.
Except Stork has nothing on Flash as was proven during they vs. games...
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On January 10 2011 01:01 baubo wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 00:22 StylishVODs wrote:
So Flash is the undisputed best player for a long time.
He lost a few games and those happened to drop him from the leagues, maybe he had a few bad days or something, so he gets punnished on the PR. Thats fine.
Some of you reason that if he dominates in proleague he should get top 3 under those who dominate the leagues, but is PR only about results or who is the best player right now I can't really tell anymore.
If Flash is back in his normal mode, we'll be able to tell from winnersleague, he is obviously the best player again because we know that Flash in good shape is the best player right now (its not even close). That is atleast until someone proves otherwise and you can't really prove otherwise by beating someone that isn't Flash in a BoX.
So not putting a good shape flash back on nr1 just because he played a few bad games the previous month isn't really going to tell the truth.
That he lost those games the previous month will show alot in ranks like KeSPA. I know what you mean. Flash is 3-0 this month beating Bisu and Fantasy. Stork is 2-1 this month beating Bisu and 1-1 vs freaking Hiya. There's obviously no reason why any sane person would put Stork above Flash next month if this continues. Stork's inability to pad his record when his team wins 4-2 without him is what makes Stork a 2nd rate progamer to the likes of Flash.
"1-1 vs HiyA" isn't anything to be ashamed about. HiyA was pretty consistently in the argument for #3 TvP after Flash and fantasy for a long time, and whatever his proleague issues he'd played well in the starleagues. And Stork did win the series so w/e.
In fact, I'd argue Flash > fantasy and Stork > Bisu are roughly equivalent, as are Flash > Bisu and Stork > HiyA, so the biggest difference is that Flash beat Ssak while Stork dropped a game to HiyA. Flash gets a little extra for the 3-kill + saving KT (again); Stork gets extra credit for advancing in the league. So far, I'd say Flash and Stork are about equal on the month (and I might point out that Stork didn't have to play last night, but that's more KHAN vs KT comparison than Stork vs Flash).
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Common Flash fans, let other people have some fun for once. Everyone's tired of having Flash at undisputed #1, it's much more refreshing to reward others who stepped up. Besides this is just subjective one guy opinion. There is always Elo and KeSPA rankings that are far more fair and accurate pictures of who's doing the best.
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I'm much more concerned with the condition of Flash's arm than with his PR placement tbh... =/
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On January 10 2011 01:22 revy wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 01:01 baubo wrote:On January 10 2011 00:22 StylishVODs wrote:
So Flash is the undisputed best player for a long time.
He lost a few games and those happened to drop him from the leagues, maybe he had a few bad days or something, so he gets punnished on the PR. Thats fine.
Some of you reason that if he dominates in proleague he should get top 3 under those who dominate the leagues, but is PR only about results or who is the best player right now I can't really tell anymore.
If Flash is back in his normal mode, we'll be able to tell from winnersleague, he is obviously the best player again because we know that Flash in good shape is the best player right now (its not even close). That is atleast until someone proves otherwise and you can't really prove otherwise by beating someone that isn't Flash in a BoX.
So not putting a good shape flash back on nr1 just because he played a few bad games the previous month isn't really going to tell the truth.
That he lost those games the previous month will show alot in ranks like KeSPA. I know what you mean. Flash is 3-0 this month beating Bisu and Fantasy. Stork is 2-1 this month beating Bisu and 1-1 vs freaking Hiya. There's obviously no reason why any sane person would put Stork above Flash next month if this continues. Stork's inability to pad his record when his team wins 4-2 without him is what makes Stork a 2nd rate progamer to the likes of Flash. For me to be no. 1 in PR you've got to go deep into individual leagues and do something to deserve it. If Flash made a semis and tears up in WL I could see him ranked first, but, he went out in RO32 and RO16, that's not enough for me to see him rise to first in PR. I don't doubt that he's the player who should be feared most right now but I believe PR needs to reflect results as well. Like it or not Stork is alive in both leagues right now. That said at the end of this month I could see Flash go to maybe 3rd if he continues to do well.
This is the problem and is why it's going to be hard to write the next PR.
Flash dominated for a year getting into every finals. He dominated more than anyone ever has before. Then for a few games he lose before he quickly gets back owning everyone again and some say he won't be able to get #1 for a few months because of those 3-4 losses.
The players above him didn't even beat him.
It will be wierd to have the bonjwa at lower than #1 place, specially if he shows bonjwa play for that month like he almost always does.
Taking only league results into account is KeSPAs job, PR should be able to determine whos the strongest player right now.
And people think Flash isn't because he lost to classic ssak and hyuk once? After all he has shown us? Players we know he beats easily on a normal day.
Stork is playing well though and maybe they can meet in winnersleague but all this "If Flash plays in his God-mode for the month he MIGHT get 3rd!" is just silly.
Do you know what flash god-mode is and who the hell is better than Flash in god-mode?
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Dominating Proleague is always much easier if you're not in leagues, just as dominating leagues is much easier if you're not in Proleague. (Which normally doesn't happen, but can for Proleague finals.) The more games you've got to practice for (and actually show up to play) the harder it is to keep winning.
As long as Stork looks like he'll win double golds, he's a clear #1. Proleague/Winner's League domination can't make up for that. Although even if Stork doesn't drop either league, I don't see why Flash couldn't be #2.
It's also early a little early in the month to judge positions.
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Russian Federation327 Posts
Everyone's tired of having Flash at undisputed #1
I'm not =) Kinda weak argument to place Flash at #5 place.
Anyway I always consider FPL's players cost far more reliable source of power ranking.
Power rank charts are always strange and/or extremely biased (Fantasy's absence is really beyond sanity).
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Anyway I wouldn't wanna be Flash. He only gets credit if he does whats nearly impossible and as soon as someone even predicts a slight decline of his godlike performance all he did is forgotten.
Stork has never been above 2300 ELO and Flash hasn't been under it for years.
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The PowerRank is kinda stupid this month. Not making OSL/MSL doesn't warrant a drop to #5 when you're THE Bonjwa, justified by him immediately 3:0 others including your #2 on the misjudged list.
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On January 10 2011 06:49 Crt wrote:
The PowerRank is kinda stupid this month. Not making OSL/MSL doesn't warrant a drop to #5 when you're THE Bonjwa, justified by him immediately 3:0 others including your #2 on the misjudged list.
Obviously I agree with you, after being on top for so long then, he loses some matches in the individual leauges, and lo and behold all of a sudden Kal is better than Flash.... Kal is better than Flash(does that sound anything remotely ressembling the truth. 18-2 PL has to count for something. WIth Winners leauge coming up if Flash does not go up at least one, this PR is a joke, never to be taken seriously again
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Canada2480 Posts
I see so many KT tags to whine about this ranking now that Flash 3 killed
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On January 10 2011 07:39 swanized wrote:
I see so many KT tags to whine about this ranking now that Flash 3 killed
I don't think that many has a problem with Flash dropping to 5 after a month where he actually didn't perform as good as he normally do. Since it's monthly and all..
It's about the months after this, if he cannot climb when he's bonjwa that would be wierd :/
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Canada2480 Posts
On January 10 2011 07:58 StylishVODs wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 07:39 swanized wrote:
I see so many KT tags to whine about this ranking now that Flash 3 killed I don't think that many has a problem with Flash dropping to 5 after a month where he actually didn't perform as good as he normally do. Since it's monthly and all.. It's about the months after this, if he cannot climb when he's bonjwa that would be wierd :/
Yes I totally agree with you I was talking about these
On January 10 2011 06:49 Crt wrote:
The PowerRank is kinda stupid this month. Not making OSL/MSL doesn't warrant a drop to #5 when you're THE Bonjwa, justified by him immediately 3:0 others including your #2 on the misjudged list.
On January 10 2011 07:31 FlashIsHigh wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2011 06:49 Crt wrote:
The PowerRank is kinda stupid this month. Not making OSL/MSL doesn't warrant a drop to #5 when you're THE Bonjwa, justified by him immediately 3:0 others including your #2 on the misjudged list. Obviously I agree with you, after being on top for so long then, he loses some matches in the individual leauges, and lo and behold all of a sudden Kal is better than Flash.... Kal is better than Flash(does that sound anything remotely ressembling the truth. 18-2 PL has to count for something. WIth Winners leauge coming up if Flash does not go up at least one, this PR is a joke, never to be taken seriously again
On January 10 2011 05:13 Yodo wrote:I'm not =) Kinda weak argument to place Flash at #5 place. Anyway I always consider FPL's players cost far more reliable source of power ranking. Power rank charts are always strange and/or extremely biased (Fantasy's absence is really beyond sanity).
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EPT
