Power Rank 08/01/2010 - Page 44

On September 02 2010 19:50 Elroi wrote:
Just realized that after the final of this OSL, Jaedong will have the most achievements in TLPD. He is tied right now with Boxer, Yellow and Nada on 15.

Gz Jeadong

On September 01 2010 20:27 Plexa wrote:
Mmmm I wasn't suppose to be writing PR this month but some things came up and my replacement will have to start next month. I'll wait until OSL semis are over then I'll release a PR - hope that's okay with everyone!

On September 02 2010 00:06 SuperArc wrote:


Actually I'd rather you wait a whole month then.

To only include the semi-finals would give next month's PR even less meaning

On September 02 2010 00:06 SuperArc wrote:


Actually I'd rather you wait a whole month then.

To only include the semi-finals would give next month's PR even less meaning

On September 03 2010 01:27 Plexa wrote:
You actually have a very very good point. While I'd hate to delay even longer, september could possibly only have one more game. So... I guess I'll wait until OSL is over =/

On September 03 2010 02:14 SuperArc wrote:
Yeah it sucks, but I think thats the best solution.

On September 02 2010 00:06 SuperArc wrote:


Actually I'd rather you wait a whole month then.

To only include the semi-finals would give next month's PR even less meaning

On September 02 2010 00:06 SuperArc wrote:


Actually I'd rather you wait a whole month then.

To only include the semi-finals would give next month's PR even less meaning

On September 02 2010 05:34 darkmetal505 wrote:


SuperArc is just pointing out that both Fantasy/Light "[have] the skill required to take down Flash/JD, but choked when it mattered the most." Both series went 3-2 also, if you didn't notice.

How do you qualify more impressive? I'm guess you have this preset notion that Jaedong must play "Jaedong-esque" to be considered impressive. In which case, I'll say again, what obligation does Jaedong have to you for him to play "Jaedong-esque" every game? So Jaedong has to go out into mid/late game for him to be considered impressive? If Jaedong really did play like "some random decent Zerg" AND beat Stork, what does it say about Stork?

Like you pointed out, all of Jaedong's wins did come from Stork's shortcomings in the games. If the opponent messes up why would not grab the opportunity to win? In Game 1, would you have had JD just waltz his lings outside the natural until Stork got his cannons up? In Game 4, JD should have not built so many sunkens to stall Stork till mutas came and let the timing attack work, right? Similarly, you can say that Stork's win in Game 2 was not "impressive" because all he did was rush zealots into JD's third similar to lings breaking down the front. That was because JD got greedy and didn't build more sunks.

I hate all this ignorant accusing of X player of being "cheap" or "cheesy" because YOU want them to play otherwise. The thing is I know exactly where this hate comes from: it's because you're an anti-fan of a certain player or you want the other guy to win, not because you truly think the style is gay. For instance, if Hoejja somehow beat Stork in a similar fashion in a Bo5, we would have exponentially less KT fans complaining about zergling aggressiveness. I've been guilty about it also. I hate it when Flash turtles and builds a massive army for the win, but it's not because I think it's a lame strategy, it's because I don't want Flash to win. If it was Iris or Skyhigh doing the same thing, I wouldn't complain about it at all.

In the end, the player does what he has to in order to win. If a strategy works, why not use it? If they other guy doesn't anticipate it, it's his problem.

edit

Stork is my favorite Protoss and he played some amazing games. In the end, his inattentiveness to the amount of zerglings cost him the game. I would've also liked a long, drawn-out brawl between them, but JD won in the end, so I'm happy.

On September 02 2010 05:42 Mortality wrote:


I cut the post down to this because we keep producing walls of text, which probably is not fair to people only interested in the Power Rank discussion.

The changes, as you say right here, are "less volatile" than the changes the bonjwas made. Yes, that's exactly the point!

Because the changes were so "volatile" as you say, it was much more difficult to adapt. Which is why so many legends who pioneered ridiculous amounts of Starcraft might have only had 2-3 seasons where they even qualified for a Starleague. And some players who pioneered a lot and were famous in there day didn't even play in a Starleague! (Some of them, of course, simply did not go to Korea.) An example of this would be [GG69]NTT.



What I'm saying, regarding bonjwas, is that in past eras, I do not think Flash's level of dominance was even possible. There were too many different things a player would have to account for. Of course if Flash went back in time from today, his win rate would be nearly 100% (although maybe not during 1.07 patch where spawning pool was only 150 minerals and playing against Zerg was fucking impossible unless you were Giyom!... which is only a slight exaggeration, unfortunately).

So to say that his higher win rates and back-to-back possibly -to-back dual finals appearances automatically puts him ahead of the bonjwas is wrong.

Something you will notice if you take a trip back through time is that the each bonjwa has successively been "greater" in peak form force/dominance than the one before. (And yes, I'd argue that Savior was ahead of Oov -- lower overall win-rate, yes, but less favorable maps and ZvZ was only starting to become "less coin-flippy" towards the end of Savior's reign and is still today more of a coin-flip than TvT.) So does that mean Boxer < NaDa < Oov < Savior (at peak ability)? Not at all. The rules of the game had changed. And they've changed since.



As you said, Flash epitomizes the modern gamer. But each of the bonjwas before him epitomized "the modern gamer" when back when they were modern.

And this takes us to "Greatest of All Time." This title can only be earned, in my opinion and the opinions of many others, by one who has proven that they can cross generational boundaries and stand out as a rivaling the top player of that era (for NaDa, this means dual finals YATGK/IOPS during the Oov era: something even Oov did not do; Shinhan-2/Shinhan-3 back-to-back OSL finals then winning OSL Masters over Savior).