• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:37
CEST 03:37
KST 10:37
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202552RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams7Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing RSL Season 1 - Final Week
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Post Pic of your Favorite Food! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 660 users

Power Rank 08/01/2010 - Page 16

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 66 Next
swanized
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Canada2480 Posts
August 11 2010 07:17 GMT
#301
On August 11 2010 16:10 Iplaythings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2010 15:56 raga4ka wrote:
On August 11 2010 15:37 johanes wrote:
If flash wins this WCG he is goat and bonwja and >ESPORTS, nobody can deny that


He won't be goat . Nada and Jaedong still have more titles then him .

they NEVER made it to every finals of a season. Flæsh won 4/6 of them, (So far, where 6/8 is possible, even though it's probally gonna be 1 lose 1 win final again lol.).
Not nessescarily GOAT but 100% best of the 09/10 season is flash, noone has been as consistent and dominating this season.
The only time where flash looked insecure and slumping was during his ace match failure run,


I don't think anyone can deny that Flash was the top dog of 09-10

looks like it is shaping up for flash at number 1 again T_T
Writer
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
August 11 2010 07:37 GMT
#302
Yeah especially with Jaedong after getting #1 again playing a bit shitty in his first 3 games lol. common Jaedong pull it together and win both osl and msl this season be the first player ever to do it :D
When I think of something else, something will go here
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-11 08:10:15
August 11 2010 08:10 GMT
#303
On August 11 2010 16:10 Iplaythings wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2010 15:56 raga4ka wrote:
On August 11 2010 15:37 johanes wrote:
If flash wins this WCG he is goat and bonwja and >ESPORTS, nobody can deny that


He won't be goat . Nada and Jaedong still have more titles then him .

they NEVER made it to every finals of a season. Flæsh won 4/6 of them, (So far, where 6/8 is possible, even though it's probally gonna be 1 lose 1 win final again lol.).
Not nessescarily GOAT but 100% best of the 09/10 season is flash, noone has been as consistent and dominating this season.
The only time where flash looked insecure and slumping was during his ace match failure run,

If by season you mean an individual league season, then Nada's won 3 in a season :O Yes, won, not just make the finals.
If by PL season, then Flash has only gotten 2/4 these past two SL seasons. I'm not sure what you're saying tbh.
Jaedong
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
August 11 2010 11:15 GMT
#304
Personally I think it's much more impressive making consecutive dual finals and winning half than making consecutive single finals and winning them all.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
Loffeman
Profile Joined June 2007
Sweden105 Posts
August 11 2010 11:31 GMT
#305
Saying that Flash is GOAT because of his recent dominance is as stupid as saying that Spain is GOAT in football for winning both the european cup 08 and the world cup this year.
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
August 11 2010 11:57 GMT
#306
On August 11 2010 20:15 StylishVODs wrote:
Personally I think it's much more impressive making consecutive dual finals and winning half than making consecutive single finals and winning them all.


Except that Flash must wrest the title from Nada who made dual finals and won them. True he didn't make consecutive dual finals, but Nada is just crazy. Flash has a while to go before he makes it to Nada's level for best career ever.
L0thar
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
987 Posts
August 11 2010 14:42 GMT
#307
On August 11 2010 17:10 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2010 16:10 Iplaythings wrote:
On August 11 2010 15:56 raga4ka wrote:
On August 11 2010 15:37 johanes wrote:
If flash wins this WCG he is goat and bonwja and >ESPORTS, nobody can deny that


He won't be goat . Nada and Jaedong still have more titles then him .

they NEVER made it to every finals of a season. Flæsh won 4/6 of them, (So far, where 6/8 is possible, even though it's probally gonna be 1 lose 1 win final again lol.).
Not nessescarily GOAT but 100% best of the 09/10 season is flash, noone has been as consistent and dominating this season.
The only time where flash looked insecure and slumping was during his ace match failure run,

If by season you mean an individual league season, then Nada's won 3 in a season :O Yes, won, not just make the finals.
If by PL season, then Flash has only gotten 2/4 these past two SL seasons. I'm not sure what you're saying tbh.


Which 3 individual leagues it were? I though Nada won 2 in a season.

And I guess he is refering to this PL season. During it, there were (started and ended) 6 finals - 2 OSL, 2 MSL, Winners league finals and PL finals. Flash was in every single one of them and won 4 of them. Yes, WL and PL are team leagues, but only fool would deny that KT won them mainly thanks to Flash. I believe it's the best season of every progamer ever, just think about it...every single final this whole season, that's ubelievable
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
August 11 2010 14:58 GMT
#308
On August 11 2010 17:10 Avidkeystamper wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 11 2010 16:10 Iplaythings wrote:
On August 11 2010 15:56 raga4ka wrote:
On August 11 2010 15:37 johanes wrote:
If flash wins this WCG he is goat and bonwja and >ESPORTS, nobody can deny that


He won't be goat . Nada and Jaedong still have more titles then him .

they NEVER made it to every finals of a season. Flæsh won 4/6 of them, (So far, where 6/8 is possible, even though it's probally gonna be 1 lose 1 win final again lol.).
Not nessescarily GOAT but 100% best of the 09/10 season is flash, noone has been as consistent and dominating this season.
The only time where flash looked insecure and slumping was during his ace match failure run,

If by season you mean an individual league season, then Nada's won 3 in a season :O Yes, won, not just make the finals.
If by PL season, then Flash has only gotten 2/4 these past two SL seasons. I'm not sure what you're saying tbh.

WL, SPL, Ever OSL, Nate MSL, korean air OSL 1, Hanna Daetoo MSL is what I meant and when I talk "season" i mean year, if you count gomtv its even more... (but now I only counted "KeSPA" sanctioned events.

Nada didnt make all of them. Even though he's still the only who won 2 individual leagues at the same time.
In the woods, there lurks..
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
August 11 2010 16:18 GMT
#309
NaDa won 2002-2003 Baskin Robbins MSL, 2002-2003 Panasonic OSL and 2003 GhemTV SL all at the same time (GhemTV was an actual "Starleague" in every sense of the word -- a different tv channel that was competing with OnGameNet and MBC Game, but it went bankrupt in late 2003/early 2004). This is the famous "Gold Grand Slam," a feat no one else has ever achieved.

NaDa also went Gold/Silver in You Are the Golf King MSL and IOPS OSL, again both in the same season.

And what makes NaDa so great isn't that he's won 6 Starleagues or that he made 10 finals. It's not that he Gold Grand Slammed. It isn't that he spent 8 years in the KeSPA top 30 and most of that time in the top 5.

What makes NaDa the GOAT is that he has risen up to challenge the throne of both of the bonjwas who came after him. The YATGK/IOPS run was right after Oov won Ever 2004 OSL. Then NaDa challenged Savior by winning Shinhan-2 OSL then facing Savior in Shinhan-3 OSL. He lost, but came back to win over Savior in OGN Masters a month later, making him the first Terran to win a bo5 over Matler.

When you consider both his dominance (new records set, high win rates over lengthy time period, tournament achievements, etc.) and his influence on the metagame, Jaedong and Flash don't come close. And with SC2 already out, it's unclear if they will ever even have the chance to vie for that throne.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
August 11 2010 16:48 GMT
#310
I agree that Nada is too far away beyond everybody to really call Flash the best ever.

However, unless Flash flames out pretty quickly these last four months, I'd say fairly comfortably he's had the best year ever.

Of course, there are too many zerg fans to ever acknowledge him as bonjwa, even though he's probably already had a better career than Savior (betting or no betting), and certainly a better peak
Loffeman
Profile Joined June 2007
Sweden105 Posts
August 11 2010 18:16 GMT
#311
I'ts hard to define "greatest" but I think it's important winning a lot of starleagues and at this point there are several people far ahead of Flash in that matter
ghrur
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States3786 Posts
August 11 2010 22:30 GMT
#312
Yes Nada is a beast; yes, Flash is amazing, but the more important question here is... WHEN WILL MAGIKARP EVER MAKE THE PR? T_T
darkness overpowering
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-11 22:48:56
August 11 2010 22:48 GMT
#313
On August 12 2010 03:16 Loffeman wrote:
I'ts hard to define "greatest" but I think it's important winning a lot of starleagues and at this point there are several people far ahead of Flash in that matter


If by several you mean 4. (Nada 6, Jaedong 5, Oov 5, Savior 4, Flash 3, Boxer 3, Bisu 3).
Remember Violet.
revy
Profile Joined September 2009
United States1524 Posts
August 11 2010 22:56 GMT
#314
On August 12 2010 07:48 TwoToneTerran wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 12 2010 03:16 Loffeman wrote:
I'ts hard to define "greatest" but I think it's important winning a lot of starleagues and at this point there are several people far ahead of Flash in that matter


If by several you mean 4. (Nada 6, Jaedong 5, Oov 5, Savior 4, Flash 3, Boxer 3, Bisu 3).


3 Bonjwa's and his greatest rival, he's for sure among good company.
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
August 12 2010 00:32 GMT
#315
On August 12 2010 01:18 Mortality wrote:
When you consider both his dominance (new records set, high win rates over lengthy time period, tournament achievements, etc.) and his influence on the metagame, Jaedong and Flash don't come close. And with SC2 already out, it's unclear if they will ever even have the chance to vie for that throne.

Ofcourse I agree that you can't compare Flash's career with NaDa's but when talking about new records set and high winrates over lengthy time period I think Flash is ahead of Nada.
Saying that he doesn't come close is abit unfair.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
August 12 2010 00:50 GMT
#316
Flash has broken more records than anyone if only because of how good he was for his age. He's still behind Nada though because Nada won four titles by the time he was Flash's age and Flash has only won 3. Now Flash could go on to be the first 18 year old with 5 titles if he wins 2 within the next like, 4 years I think? Something like that.

I think Flash will eventually surpass Nada if BW lasts. If you want to count Ghemtv you might as well count GOMs, too, which Flash has 2 of.
Remember Violet.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
August 12 2010 01:55 GMT
#317
You could just count their entire achievements list then.
Jaedong
RandomAccount#49059
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2140 Posts
August 12 2010 02:05 GMT
#318
--- Nuked ---
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
August 12 2010 02:17 GMT
#319
On August 12 2010 10:55 Avidkeystamper wrote:
You could just count their entire achievements list then.


Which is why it's simpler to just use major leagues. Leagues that have died aren't at the same level obviously.
Remember Violet.
Mortality
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
United States4790 Posts
August 12 2010 03:49 GMT
#320
Each successive bonjwa breaks old records, many of which were set by old bonjwas and many of those records last a long time. This is one of the hallmarks of a bonjwa and its one of the reasons for excitement surrounding Flash. However, I do not at all agree that Flash even comes close to NaDa's records of maintaining high win rates. Flash's best results are all clustered around two time periods, neither one of which is all that long, although the recent one in particular has featured some pretty jaw dropping statistics. NaDa has had more steady dominance than any other player.

It's also important to note as an aside that the nature of records and their meanings changes. For instance, the value of WCG as a tournament has oscillated quite a bit over time (in the very early years where player funding came from prize money won, WCG had some worth, but that worth petered to almost nothing as sponsors started giving regular salaries, meanwhile progamers had limited interest in slugging it through a lengthy qualification process, while in recent years that process has been trimmed down considerably and now some players put some stock into it again -- although not Jaedong apparently!).

Regarding SL titles, I did not count GhemTV. Or ITV Ranking League. Or KTF Premier League. Or OGN Masters. NaDa has a total of 27 trophies next to his name. Only Boxer has more (30). Though NaDa has more gold and more wins in more important venues. Anyway, as I said, trophy count is not what makes NaDa GOAT. It's just another piece of the puzzle.
Even though this Proleague bullshit has been completely bogus, I really, really, really do not see how Khan can lose this. I swear I will kill myself if they do. - nesix before KHAN lost to eNature
Prev 1 14 15 16 17 18 66 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 9h 23m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 270
RuFF_SC2 79
StarCraft: Brood War
sSak 122
Sexy 64
NaDa 62
Icarus 6
Dota 2
monkeys_forever1145
League of Legends
JimRising 561
Counter-Strike
Coldzera 248
Super Smash Bros
AZ_Axe278
Other Games
summit1g12969
tarik_tv8375
Day[9].tv851
shahzam698
ViBE237
C9.Mang0236
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 15 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 120
• davetesta44
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• HerbMon 28
• Azhi_Dahaki7
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Day9tv851
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
9h 23m
Serral vs Cure
Solar vs Classic
OSC
12h 23m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 12h
CSO Cup
1d 14h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 16h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
[ Show More ]
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.