EPTPower Rank 07/02/2010 - Page 16
| Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet |
|
Samurai-
Slovenia2035 Posts
| ||
|
ChaosSmurf
United Kingdom175 Posts
| ||
|
Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On July 02 2010 21:19 ChaosSmurf wrote: Ruby and Yellow not in this month's power rank? What is it, some kind of thing not based on single results in a month but over a longer period of time? YellOw went 3-1 and hasn't been good for a while. RuBy, other than beating Flash once, has been average or worse. I think. Maybe I should go look... | ||
|
moopie
12605 Posts
On July 02 2010 15:47 SlayerS_BunkiE wrote: lol what should we call effort's reverse sweep of flash in the osl then? Having some tea and discussing the finer points of strategy. | ||
|
Loffeman
Sweden105 Posts
| ||
|
moochu
Australia374 Posts
| ||
|
Mooncat
Germany1228 Posts
On July 02 2010 19:31 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: this MONTHLY power ranking....it SHOULD be 1.Jaedong 2.Bisu 3.Flash 4.Fantasy SHOULD be, but someone is obviously a flash fanboy Bisu #2? You just lost all credibility if you ever had any. This is not a monthly statistics rank. If you don't have a clue, don't join the discussion please. People might get the wrong idea and think you're trolling... *cough* | ||
|
Bwenjarin Raffrack
United States322 Posts
I know you think that your somewhat snarky quoting served as a sort of rebuttal, but I stand by what I said. As far as I can remember, Plexa has consistently used the current and previous month to make his ranks. Maybe to everyone's consternation, and maybe he's never outlined his particular rubric, but that has always seemed to be the case when I read his PRs. Wax's "unlimited period" is simply just exaggeration. Despite the surreality making it easy to forget, Flash did 3-0 Jaedong in the MSL just days prior to the month in question. Sure, maybe Plexa always errs on the side of Flash, and I may personally disagree with his final decision, but they're still relevant results, in my opinion. Relevant enough that all of the caterwauling and bloodlust in the comments is unjustified. On July 02 2010 20:59 Musoeun wrote: + Show Spoiler + Just for comparison, I thought I'd look back at what happened when Jaedong knocked Bisu off the PR: Bisu had a terrible month, going 3-6. However, he lost to HiyA (one of the world's best TvPers), a Bo5 to Stork (the world's other best Protoss at that point), and finished off by winning 3rd place in the OSL over UpMagic. Jaedong went 11-2, with a single loss to Sea in Proleague and losing one game to Stork in an OSL finals victory. So we had both requirements for exchanging #1 after a long run: a poor month by the previous player, and a dominating month by the challenger. Well, Jaedong was dominating, but apparently Flash going 7-7 and losing 5 ace matches isn't poor enough. ---- Let's try again: When Bisu finally knocked sAviOr off #1, sAviOr had gone 4-6 in the Shinhan Masters and Superfight leagues (aka totally meaningless games), while Bisu went 5-2 in the KeSPA Cup (as well as 4-0 through OSL Prelims and 2-0 in the Superfight, but like I said, meaningless games). And his losses were to Casy (I kid you not) and fOrGG. In other words, with basically no benchmark for how good sAviOr was, and Bisu showing terrible terrible PvT even if he was solid otherwise, the judgment was made that Bisu was #1. Apparently 7-7 is close enough to "some" benchmark that Jaedong's 8-1 in regular leagues, 5-1 through OSL prelims, doesn't count as enough "domination" to knock Flash off for the month. Now, if that was 7-7, and Flash had done his (more normal) lose-in-regular-set-dominate the ace match, we'd have no problems with Flash #1. He'd just have been making it harder for himself again, which we're used to. Flash losing ace matches is completely out of character even for sloppy Flash. EDIT: Thought I'd mention this while I'm at it. Flash made #1 last month - in my book - by making dual finals twice, and by beating Jaedong soundly, with a side of, "If he hadn't played like an ass he should have beaten EffOrt". But at the same time, his Proleague play was less than convincing, going 4-3, losing two ace matches (though to fantasy and Snow, not nearly the level of fail he demonstrated this month). Now, how you interpret this will depend a little on your viewpoint (aka who you like). IMO the Proleague shakiness plus throwing away the match against EffOrt meant Flash #1 was already suspect, held up only by his domination of Jaedong. I was, in other words, already ready to ditch Flash as #1 if he showed signs of struggling - but then, I follow Proleague more than the individual leagues. (On the other hand, if he had won both finals, I would have been willing to leave him up here for the next three months even if he went 4-27 over that time and dropped a league, because winning two finals is just that ridiculous. Well, next two months, anyway.) On the other hand, Plexa (and others) seem to have taken the point of view that the Proleague struggles last month were just due to "prioritizing", and that therefore the fact they've continued (when Flash has nothing else to do) is coincidental and shouldn't actually affect the rank at all. You know, whatever. This is an interesting analysis, and I always respect your posts, but one thing to note is that comparing PRs between different writers (and their various criteria and biases) is close enough to a fruitless endeavor that I'd discourage it almost completely, at least in the context of trying to derive criteria based on precedent. As you say, you may not regard the individual leagues as highly, but I found the results of the MSL finals to be very eye-opening. I'm not sure why everyone seems to have forgotten or written it off, exactly. Everyone considered Jaedong in a Bo5 as Flash's insurmountable hurdle to greatness, and he overcame in a resoundingly dominating fashion. Say what you will about it being a fluke, I still consider it monumental enough to keep Flash in contention. Maybe I wouldn't put him at number one, but I wouldn't scream for Plexa's resignation if he were. | ||
|
Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On July 02 2010 21:57 Bwenjarin Raffrack wrote: As you say, you may not regard the individual leagues as highly, but I found the results of the MSL finals to be very eye-opening. I'm not sure why everyone seems to have forgotten or written it off, exactly. Everyone considered Jaedong in a Bo5 as Flash's insurmountable hurdle to greatness, and he overcame in a resoundingly dominating fashion. Say what you will about it being a fluke, I still consider it monumental enough to keep Flash in contention. Maybe I wouldn't put him at number one, but I wouldn't scream for Plexa's resignation if he were. Everyone considered the vs Jaedong Bo5 to be Flash's personal hurdle - and it was. I don't think anyone would dispute that. But to me it looks like Flash finally beat that hurdle... and decided to just coast along for a while. He's lost that white-hot edge. Plexa thinks he should be allowed to coast. I think he should be slapped down for it. I don't think he needs to maintain perfection every month... but, say, a 9-5 record instead of 7-7, and not losing to RuBy and HiyA, would have done a lot to convince me Flash was really still on top. Of course, I'm harder on Flash than on some other players, because I want him to be the best. If he's not playing like the best, I can't call him the best, it makes me dishonest. I'd probably cut Jaedong or Bisu a little more slack than I'm giving Flash, because I don't care about them as much. On the other hand, if it were my actual favorite player (free) up on top, I can't say how I'd react. So yeah, a bunch of it's subjective (but that doesn't make me wrong!  ). | ||
|
Shikyo
Finland33997 Posts
@above post, 14cc in every game, that Jaedong failed to adapt to. It's not too likely to happen again, believe it or not. They've taken the last 2 months into account only when Jaedong wasn't in question, in which case the PR only took the worse of the 2 months into account. | ||
|
Kuzmorgo
Hungary1058 Posts
Another factor which must be taken into account is who Flash is losing to. Every single one of Flash's losses has come to a player who excels at the vT matchup. Further, Flash's ace match losses are to teams who have excellent Zerg aces who weren't sent for the ace match. The jist of it is, Flash has been playing really good opponents - a good winrate against these guys would make any player happy with their results. I just want to point out that Flash lost to: Really, Ruby, Hiya, and in his game against baby, baby didnt have a BO advantage. and his wins were also mostly against bad opponenets. I dont want to get into the debate, i can live with this PR, but i think Jaedong performed as was expected from him, while Flash did not. Anyway, I can understand and appreciate that you dont want to drop some1 who has beaten everybody in the past few months. I hope that the upcoming month will decide if Flash could keep up with being the best, or he will continue this tendency: Dominate for a few months, slump for twice as many, repeat.... Agree completely with all positions except Effort. I would drop him completely from PR if I was one making it Post OSL slump? He beat Flash. Again! Which still means something (even with the Flash of today (which shows that Flash is still a force to be reckoned with)). | ||
swanized
Canada2480 Posts
last month -damn I can't believe Effort beat Flash,so fluky... he cheesed, EFfort sucks, I hate zergs... only zergs can cheese(BBS, 8 rax, ayumi, sparks?) http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/blogitems.php?site=schrei&page=2 5 min after posting -wait a minute! now that I look at Effort's record... YEAH, If I discard that blog I can put Jaedong to 3, AWESOME Effort rocks! this month -Damn...Flash had an awfull month, looks like I'll have to put Jaedong number 1.*sigh* wait a minute... Flash only loses in very drawn-out and long TvT(how rare)...and he only fought lost against top-tier players(Hiya,Ruby?) and... Jaedong only beat weak players, he even had a free-win against forU(of course Backho is not free win)(and free win =no win...of course).haha only 8-1...what a noob, I can dump him to no2. | ||
|
DarkMatter_
Canada1774 Posts
On July 02 2010 19:28 Shikyo wrote: Oh reading these past PR's is absolutely hilarious, the PR about december having JD #3 behind Stork although to me it seemed like he should even be above Flash, because "his play hasn't looked that strong" Oh man, why was I even surprised about this PR? Maybe I'll just have to wait until the next PR writer, hopefully that person will have looked "objective" up in the dictionary. EDIT: okay, october PR seems surprising, maybe I was wrong after all. Even so, this month's PR should either have Flash, JD, Effort, Fantasy or JD, Flash, Fantasy, Effort, can't have what it does now or it's not consistent about what period of time it's gauging. October PR was by riptide, not Plexa. The fact that Plexa points out in his very first PR that he would've liked to award Flash both the #1 and #2 spots pretty much says it all. | ||
|
Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
| ||
|
khellian
Korea (South)922 Posts
On July 02 2010 19:31 Crimson)S(hadow wrote: this MONTHLY power ranking....it SHOULD be 1.Jaedong 2.Bisu 3.Flash 4.Fantasy SHOULD be, but someone is obviously a flash fanboy As much as I love Bisu I just have to "lol" at you for this. He still has a long ways to go, even it it has been VERY nice to se him dominating some games again. | ||
|
On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
| ||
|
Avidkeystamper
United States8556 Posts
| ||
|
TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
I think it's a bit subjective but if someone plays an awesome game with which there's no doubt it was an impressive display, they'll probably get credit. In the same vein, I don't think anyone would hold games likes that one Pusan played against gogo when they were both eliminated from their group already and he was just fucking around, etc. | ||
|
jalstar
United States8198 Posts
| ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26781 Posts
On July 02 2010 20:39 ]343[ wrote: Mmm I think since this is the second day PR has been out, lots of people will be coming to flame Plexa and/or Flash and not want to be spoilered... Hmmm well if you're coming in to flame who cares if you're going to get spoilered. On July 02 2010 21:45 moochu wrote: where's the hiya love? What I totally forgot about this. Magikarpu! | ||
| ||
