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Power Rank 07/02/2010 - Page 18

Forum Index > Polls & Liquibet
Post a Reply
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baller
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
527 Posts
July 02 2010 23:47 GMT
#341
i think when PR writer knows he has a bias, and theres a relatively close call (like flash/jd here), then the writer should automatically make the "non bias" choice -- jd #1

not that i think it was close lol
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
July 03 2010 00:48 GMT
#342
Really heated debate here. I think people should take this on a less personal level.

I would have been fine with Jaedong on first place this month, but I can understand why he let Flash keep his place.
This month was in between induvidual leagues and there was no do or die games.

Flash was so far ahead of everyone since october 2009 and he gets one mediocre month where no one else did anything spectacular and people get so fired up about things...
I'd understand it better had someone won a league or something.

If someone ever deserves the benefit of a doubt it is Flash this month. He was floating on 2400+ elo and made it to all finals. You can't even compare it to previous rankings because it has never happened before.

Ofcourse you can disagree with the rank but keep it civil please.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
LucasWoJ
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
United States936 Posts
July 03 2010 00:54 GMT
#343
On July 03 2010 09:48 StylishVODs wrote:
Really heated debate here. I think people should take this on a less personal level.

I would have been fine with Jaedong on first place this month, but I can understand why he let Flash keep his place.
This month was in between induvidual leagues and there was no do or die games.

Flash was so far ahead of everyone since october 2009 and he gets one mediocre month where no one else did anything spectacular and people get so fired up about things...
I'd understand it better had someone won a league or something.

If someone ever deserves the benefit of a doubt it is Flash this month. He was floating on 2400+ elo and made it to all finals. You can't even compare it to previous rankings because it has never happened before.

Ofcourse you can disagree with the rank but keep it civil please.


I don't believe you're following the discussion. Mostly everyone involved has conceded that they would have been fine (though only grudgingly) with Flash as number one had the only reason provided been "8 months utter domination. He gets a free month" or something along those lines. Jaedong very clearly outplayed flash this month, but out of respect for the records flash has been smashing over the last two seasons, he should be given the month off, so to speak.

Those who aren't intentionally trolling are arguing that plexa's reasoning for putting flash over jaedong is just awful. It's an attempt to rationalize a losing record and devalue jaedong's performance, both of which are completely unnecessary.
"Of all the words of mice and men, the saddest are it could have been." - Kurt Vonnegut
StylishVODs
Profile Joined December 2005
Sweden5331 Posts
July 03 2010 00:59 GMT
#344
Yeah I haven't read all replies...
From what I've read I see there are alot of people not willing to accept that arguement either.
Not accept would be fine but whats up with the crazy flaming.
According to Reach, he is the fastest learner he has ever seen. He start bw only like 2/3 years ago. Infact, his bw history knowledge is so limited, he didn't even know what the map Guillotine was.
MangoTango
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States3670 Posts
July 03 2010 01:00 GMT
#345
But Flash hasn't won an ace in a good long while now. He's cost his team 5 matches this round so far!
"One fish, two fish, red fish, BLUE TANK!" - Artosis
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5595 Posts
July 03 2010 01:01 GMT
#346
I was just about to feel sorry about all the Plexa bashing that has been going on in this thread. But then i re-red what he wrote about Effort shortly after he won the OSL last season. And I got to say that I feel that, with him doing the PR, we will never have an even remotely fare judgment of the players skill level. Just look what he wrote about Effort:

he just keeps keep using dirty tactics and getting lucky. Seriously, Effort is the worst kind of Zerg there is and him and all others like him should just retire and play SC2 (it's probably more suited to their talents, or lack of).

Expect Effort to drop out of the next OSL in the Ro16 0-3. He doesn't deserve anything else.


Now Effort isn't only a player who "excels at the vT matchup", but he also beat Flash in the late game which means that Flash almost won the game... In the blog he criticizes Effort for winning because of early aggression (which is only luck) and now he sees Effort's drawn out win vs Flash as a testament of Flash's skill. Also, in the same blog where Plexa condemns Efforts early aggression style he criticizes Jaedong for using builds that are greedy econ cheeses:

His entire gameplan was basically to exploit the other races being greedy and win.


(I think most people would say this applies much more to Flash's style than to Jaedong's... but it's besides the point) Plexa seems to think that all Jaedong's and Efforts wins are due to luck. They are always basically free wins in his opinion or else they are unfair in some other way, like when he writes about Jaedong that he is "destroying people by any means necessary". The interesting thing is that we see the same thing in this Power Rank: Jaedong's wins are free wins. The only difference is, as many posters have already shown, that here Plexa is hiding this obvious fanboyism behind a strange logic that becomes less and less coherent for every Power Ranking he writes.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Numy
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
South Africa35471 Posts
July 03 2010 01:14 GMT
#347
I think Plexa is far smarter than most of the bashing makes him out to be. His choice in this PR seems to imply he knows exactly how to create a good PR. People enjoy the controversy. Would most of you guys read or reply to this PR if it was the perfect representation of skill in that month? He knows he's bias and he uses that to his advantage when writing these.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8097 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-03 01:26:12
July 03 2010 01:26 GMT
#348
On July 02 2010 21:45 moochu wrote:
where's the hiya love?


omg rofl

hiya went 11-3 and almost no one noticed

he belongs above effort really
Free Palestine
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
July 03 2010 03:01 GMT
#349
On July 03 2010 10:26 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2010 21:45 moochu wrote:
where's the hiya love?


omg rofl

hiya went 11-3 and almost no one noticed

he belongs above effort really


I noticed, but between Flash/Jaedong and then BaBy, free, Stats, and great all being misplaced, some wildly, it just wasn't worth bringing it up.

Plus HiyA's still a little fluky, he'll probably go 4-9 next month or something.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
July 03 2010 03:23 GMT
#350
On July 03 2010 10:26 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 02 2010 21:45 moochu wrote:
where's the hiya love?


omg rofl

hiya went 11-3 and almost no one noticed

he belongs above effort really


I noticed. I also noticed that he was a complete baller.

I would've kicked great off to make some room for hiya at 9 or 10.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
July 03 2010 03:38 GMT
#351
On July 03 2010 12:23 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2010 10:26 Ideas wrote:
On July 02 2010 21:45 moochu wrote:
where's the hiya love?


omg rofl

hiya went 11-3 and almost no one noticed

he belongs above effort really


I noticed. I also noticed that he was a complete baller.

I would've kicked great off to make some room for hiya at 9 or 10.


Gotta love it when people notice one player's good month and decide he's better than another player who did fantastic, just because.

What about Stats? Can we kick Stats off and put HiyA on? Now that would make sense.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
_awake_
Profile Joined August 2007
196 Posts
July 03 2010 03:50 GMT
#352
On July 02 2010 07:22 DarkMatter_ wrote:
Why even wait till the end of the month to post the PR if the results of that month are going to completely disregarded? It sounds like Flash's spot was already decided beforehand simply based on his overall performance over the past year.

If this is how the PR is done, I can already give you the number 1 and 2 spots for July's PR.

1. Flash - Flash may or may not have an atrocious record this month...he might even end up losing every single game, but it's going to take more than a couple of bad months to take away from Flash's overall dominance over the past year. This is the Power Rank after all, not the Monthly Statistics Rank and as such, Flash is still here to stay at the top spot.

2. Jaedong - Jaedong has been looking really strong lately and could end up having another really solid month, but looking at the results alone can be a bit misleading. Jaedong's opposition this month includes the likes of Tyson and Ssak, so even if Jaedong wins those games, you can't really credit that to his skill level since technically, they're like free wins. Until Jaedong can maintain a dominant form over a prolonged period against better players, he is still #2.

Am I doing this right?


exactly what i thought
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-03 04:11:26
July 03 2010 04:10 GMT
#353
On July 03 2010 12:38 Musoeun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2010 12:23 Mindcrime wrote:
On July 03 2010 10:26 Ideas wrote:
On July 02 2010 21:45 moochu wrote:
where's the hiya love?


omg rofl

hiya went 11-3 and almost no one noticed

he belongs above effort really


I noticed. I also noticed that he was a complete baller.

I would've kicked great off to make some room for hiya at 9 or 10.


Gotta love it when people notice one player's good month and decide he's better than another player who did fantastic, just because.

What about Stats? Can we kick Stats off and put HiyA on? Now that would make sense.

(P)Stats went 6-4 in major leagues with his best wins against EffOrt, Kwanro, and ZerO.
(T)HiyA went 7-3 in major leagues with his best wins against EffOrt, Calm, Flash and forGG.

Yeah, I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that Plexa just completely forgot about HiyA. Not that Stats at #6 wasn't odd enough anyway, but still.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
July 03 2010 04:11 GMT
#354
On July 03 2010 12:38 Musoeun wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 03 2010 12:23 Mindcrime wrote:
On July 03 2010 10:26 Ideas wrote:
On July 02 2010 21:45 moochu wrote:
where's the hiya love?


omg rofl

hiya went 11-3 and almost no one noticed

he belongs above effort really


I noticed. I also noticed that he was a complete baller.

I would've kicked great off to make some room for hiya at 9 or 10.


Gotta love it when people notice one player's good month and decide he's better than another player who did fantastic, just because.

What about Stats? Can we kick Stats off and put HiyA on? Now that would make sense.


Great did not do fantastically compared to hiya. They've produced very similar results recently except for that fact that hiya is still alive in a league.

I think stats is too high, but I'm not totally against him being on the pr. :|
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
July 03 2010 04:19 GMT
#355
I highly disagree with comparing Effort to July. If there's a Zerg player that is comparable to July then it is Jaedong. July has been one of the greatest Zerg players to play the game but his success was due to how good his instincts were, not necessarily due to a layout of systematic decisions. July's methods couldn't be adopted by other Zergs because July's play could only be imitated by himself. Jaedong follows this vein as the style of ZvZ that he innovated couldn't be imitated by other Zergs for an extremely long time, and the same goes for his ZvT and ZvP. Jaedong is able to pull it off because he is Jaedong. Effort isn't really like this. Both him and Zero have a far more systematic and measurable way of playing. Their success comes from a more rudimentary and fundamental understanding and innovation rather than something of more pure instinct like Jaedong.
Neverhood
Profile Joined August 2009
United States5388 Posts
July 03 2010 04:44 GMT
#356
I think the bias is pretty obvious just by reading Flash and Jaedong's paragraphs; JD's paragraph ismostly downplaying his record and performance, and Flash's defending his losses etc. And it didn't even mention his 0-5 record in ace matches which i would assume would play a huge factor in determining how a player is doing. I mean lets face it, with MSL/OSL only in its early stages, ACE matches in R5 should be considered the best wins or worst losses. I also think losing 2 ZvZs is alot more forgiving that losing 5 TvTs.

IMO:
1. Jaedong
2. Flash
3. Fantasy

and TBH i think the gap between 1 and 2 is greater than 2 and 3 (for this month).
Jaedong :D
asdfTT123
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States989 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-07-03 05:12:12
July 03 2010 05:11 GMT
#357
Umm...Flash lost to everyone, their moms, and their dogs. And he's still #1 when Jaedong went 8-1? Roflzzzzz.

Plexa, you have no credibility at all. Soooo bias.
n.Die_Jaedong <3
Cpadolf
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden1199 Posts
July 03 2010 05:36 GMT
#358
Jaedong = #1 ELO :D
SimonB
Profile Joined September 2008
United States1088 Posts
July 03 2010 05:38 GMT
#359
After like 10 months, JD will take a lead in ELO.

Enjoy it while it lasts.
cemlions
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada43 Posts
July 03 2010 05:43 GMT
#360
I think, a clear understanding of the importance of individual criteria towards the ranking should be made. Anyways, flash at one is okay, would have liked bisu a bit higher maybe 8 or something, and am hoping stork starts playing like the player I think he is. It seems protoss vs zerg is becoming more and more difficult for protoss as time goes by.
I knew I wasn't a noob cause I just didn't feel good when I was noobing out
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