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Turbovolver
Australia2396 Posts
On July 02 2010 01:18 Plexa wrote: 10 was the only spot I could justifiably give bisu. Anything higher would be assuming something more from bisu based on his history. He says, while blatantly using and admitting to using history for the sake of Flash #1. Awful. | ||
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QibingZero
2611 Posts
I mean, it's okay to put Flash on top in order to prove the point that your play itself is as important as the results. This is especially true since Flash hasn't dropped out of either individual league, and the games he lost ended up having no bearing on his team's proleague performance. It's also okay to put him on top to send the message that showing mediocre results is acceptable for a short time, and that the PR does take into account some amount of past play (even if it's not nearly as much as KeSPA rankings are). But instead you're complicating things by trying to argue Flash lost to only good opponents, while Jaedong only beat lower quality ones. You've been kinder to Jaedong than in the past Plexa, but your bias still shows here and it's not surprising that people are calling you out on it. A few other notes: free > stats > baby In this case, free > stats should be obvious, and baby has fallen out of the MSL while everyone else on the PR except for great is in both leagues still. Dropping Kal off the list completely while keeping Flash at the top is a ridiculous inconsistency. Kal's losses this month were to strong players, and he really didn't play terribly in any of them. He should at least be above Bisu, who really hasn't proven he's back in form yet. | ||
Waxangel
United States33571 Posts
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baller
527 Posts
On July 02 2010 10:10 Waxangel wrote: I'm kind of annoyed with this ranking because the criteria is not consistent enough with the past editions of power rank. In the past PR has been based very much on recent results, even the ones Plexa has written. It's kind of jarring to see it abruptly change to "overall power rank over unlimited period". if jd beat flash 3-0, then went 7-7 (losing every ace match) and flash went 8-1 with the only loss in a 2hr TvT vs Boxer (which is what the JD vs Yellow game was), would this PR still have JD on top? if the roles were reversed, plexa would have demoted JD and promoted flash in a heartbeat. that is what makes me sad. this rank is a clear case of player bias.  | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
Last Ten Games vs non-Flash T (vs Flash); Last Two Months vs non-Flash T (vs Flash)  EffOrt: 5-5 (vs Flash: 5-2) since March 31; 2-2 (5-2) since May 1 free: 7-3 (vs Flash: 1-3) since April 29; 7-2 (1-3) since May 1 Really: 4-6 (vs Flash: 1-1) since February 27; 2-1 (1-1) since May 1sKyHigh: 8-2 (vs Flash: 1-0) since February 22; 3-0 (1-0) since May 1BaBy: 7-3 (vs Flash: 1-3) since February 27; 2-0 (1-0) since May 1RuBy: 1-9 (vs Flash: 1-3) since February 9; 0-2 (1-3) since May 1HiyA: 5-5 (vs Flash: 1-0) since March 6; 2-3 (1-1) since May 1Points to Take From This 1) RuBy is a bad TvTer; Really and HiyA are on the mediocre side and EffOrt is clearly struggling recently. That makes 3 1/2 - free, sKyHigh, BaBy, and some allowance for EffOrt's peak - who would "normally" be a threat to in-form Flash. That also means Flash lost at least three games - against RuBy, Really, and HiyA - he shouldn't have. 2) Really, sKyHigh, and HiyA had not played Flash recently. Of the other four (EffOrt, free, BaBy, and RuBy) who had, only EffOrt had beaten Flash before this month. (BaBy's games vs Flash in the OSL, while not strictly within my 2-month limit, are close enough, and in the most recent starleague season, that I am making an exception in counting them as "recent".) That calculation also means at least three games - vs free, BaBy, and RuBy - in-form Flash shouldn't have lost. 3) Of the players he lost to, Flash had already beaten two of them - RuBy and Really - in regular sets. That leaves two games - vs RuBy and Really, naturally - that in-form Flash shouldn't have lost. Conclusion The overlap of these criteria adds up to five opponents - free, Really, BaBy, RuBy, and HiyA - Flash shouldn't have lost to if Flash was in starleague-winning, opponent-destroying form. The fact that he lost not just one - for instance to Really, whose TvT is a touch improved lately - not just two or three, but all five of those games indicates that Flash's level of play has slipped significantly - or his opponents have improved enough to significantly reduce Flash's edge - since his Terran-destroying rampage to the double finals. Either way, Flash's relative advantage and skill level has slipped. Whether or not Jaedong (or whoever) played well enough to overcome Flash's momentum to take #1 is of course a different calculation, but trying to pretend Flash #1 should be unquestioned - as some are still trying to do - is just silly. | ||
flamewheel
FREEAGLELAND26782 Posts
On July 02 2010 10:38 Musoeun wrote: 3) Of the players he lost to, Flash had already beaten three of them - RuBy, BaBy, and Really - in regular sets. Reasonably, allowing for BaBy's overall TvT level, that still leaves two games - vs RuBy and Really - that in-form Flash shouldn't have lost. Actually just to correct a small mistake--Flash didn't face BaBy when KT played FOX. Flash beat Midas and BaBy beat Stats to bring FOX back in from 0-2 before taking down Flash in the Ace. On July 02 2010 04:21 Aesop wrote: This is a very ... forceful powerrank. Finally some heated debate, yay! 225 comments, man. There's good discussion, fanboyism, and Plexa-bashing. The discussion is a must, the fanboyism tolerable, but please can we stop bashing on Plexa for the sake of bashing on Plexa? On July 02 2010 10:10 Waxangel wrote: I'm kind of annoyed with this ranking because the criteria is not consistent enough with the past editions of power rank. In the past PR has been based very much on recent results, even the ones Plexa has written. It's kind of jarring to see it abruptly change to "overall power rank over unlimited period". This may be the case, and as many Flash fans pointed out he seemingly got a "free month." Maybe somewhere it would be nice if each writer of the PR defined/outlined exactly how he was going to write it; that would save a lot of trouble, no? | ||
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On July 02 2010 11:01 flamewheel wrote: Actually just to correct a small mistake--Flash didn't face BaBy when KT played FOX. Flash beat Midas and BaBy beat Stats to bring FOX back in from 0-2 before taking down Flash in the Ace Ah, thanks for the catch. Fixed now. | ||
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
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snarl
Canada812 Posts
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Mortality
United States4790 Posts
This is news to me... | ||
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catabowl
United States815 Posts
It's simple, JD lost to Flash 3-0 in the MSL finals. It will have to take more than 1 month of looking better to get the #1 spot from Flash. | ||
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Taekwon
United States8155 Posts
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Musoeun
United States4324 Posts
On July 02 2010 11:18 Mortality wrote: Really couldn't beat an in-form Flash? Then how come he ended Flash's 22 game win streak in an even more convincing fashion than his recent win? This is news to me... Did I say "Really can't beat Flash"? No. I said in-form Flash "should" win. This - I thought obviously - means Flash (certainly "good Flash") is favored against Really. I don't think anyone would argue this; if you would, I think that makes one person. Flash is 4-2 all-time against Really, although now only 1-2 in 2010. Both games were on Match Point - but except against Really, Match Point is one of Flash's best maps against Terran (6-1). Really is even better on the map (7-1 vs not-Flash, 2-0 vs Flash). I guess you can call Really+Match Point Flash's TvT kryptonite? But I still don't think you can say, with a straight face, that an in-form Flash like we saw wreck last season's MSL and OSL is not a huge favorite vs. Really. | ||
tree.hugger
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
On July 02 2010 11:01 flamewheel wrote: 225 comments, man. There's good discussion, fanboyism, and Plexa-bashing. The discussion is a must, the fanboyism tolerable, but please can we stop bashing on Plexa for the sake of bashing on Plexa? There's no reason to personally attack someone, but it's a fair criticism, I think, to accuse Plexa of bias when it comes to making this ranking. In other words, he made up the ranking first based on subjective personal judgements, and then tried to justify the placements later. Just as JWD was often rightly accused for a SKT bias, Plexa's anti-zerg feelings are well-known, and prevalent in this ranking. | ||
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holyhalo5
United States187 Posts
if his record worsens over the next month, though..... | ||
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Vasoline73
United States7833 Posts
Like someone else said in this thread, the power rank has always, to me, seemed like something a betting site would use to give odds with. #1 is the player you would least likely to bet against in a series or important game... seeing as Flash just 3-0'ed his closest competition and is still the favorite in any series (except maybe Effort at this moment who seems to have the mental edge right now?  ) I see alot of reasons to keep Flash as the player with the most "power" in the SC scene. I also see alot of reasons to assume Jaedong has the most "power" in the SC scene. I can see it both ways, but I think when it comes down to it and the leagues start rolling around, this Power Rank will make more sense than JD @ #1. I think Flash not double finaling again (or at least semi final/finaling) would be very surprising... and I can't say the same for Jaedong who will probably drop out of one league in the Ro8 or something... which would probably surprise no one really. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ A few side notes: 1)I don't get why people think Bisu should be higher than #10. I personally think it's pretty generous of Plexa to even put him on the PR in the first place instead of CBNC. He has literally been bad this whole 09-10 PL season in the individuals and PL... that's like, 6 months (huge amount of time imo) of being completely irrelevant and doing nothing important other than lose in Ro32s consistently. Is he improving? Obviously, but if you really believe that, then just be happy he made the list now and hopefully he'll be higher on the list next time. Personally I would love to see Bisu make a comeback, but his season has been so mediocre that it's hard for me to even want him in the PR this month. Instead of complaining that Plexa doesn't trust Bisu or "omg you use Flash's history but not Bisu's" (even though Flash's history is recent and Bisu's good history is almost ancient in SC scene terms) I think you guys should realize Plexa is actually putting some faith in Bisu by putting him @ 10. Maybe I'm overthinking that one though. 2) Where is ForGG? I know everyone thinks he is garbage because of his lackluster PvT, but he is in both leagues and I think he will be advancing. Seems strange to not even see him in CBNC when his record has been good, he breezed through his MST group, and his games themselves haven't been terrible (although against Guemchi he didn't look all that great.) I would be very surprised if ForGG didn't sweep Action tonight in their OSL Bo3 and I am pretty sure he is probably the best vZ sniper there is right now due to his ability to mix up his play and consistently use different all in's. lol. Personally I think ForGG fits #10 better than Bisu, but I guess with his liability vP it's hard to hold him in a good light. I think he can reach Ro8 in the OSL again though. 3) Flash's ace match loses were not really important and I don't understand people saying that "it's only retroactively" not important because STX started sucking also. KT could have lost 1st place, but the point is they were locked for 1st or 2nd, not stuck in 5th or 6th (or 7th) and therefore they had a ton of slack no matter how STX did. They weren't stuck brawling for a good spot in the playoffs. KT sealed the deal for first with only 2 wins this round and even though Flash didn't know STX would suck in his 1st or 2nd ace, the next couple of ace's were obviously not as bad because he was aware that STX was biting the dust just as hard as KT was. And after KT beat STX, the deal was again, pretty much sealed. In my honest opinion Flash probably started off round 5 celebrating his good fortune, took a break and lost some focus. Not a huge surprise when your team is locked for 1st or 2nd and you just beat your biggest rival 3-0 in a hyped up revenge match. You can afford to take the break and honestly, it's probably good for him. Obviously he just didn't know how long his lack of focus would last, hence his surprised face at recent ace matches. He'll be back in time for the PL finals and he won't lose to anyone short of Bisu in S Class mode (SKT v KTF curse) | ||
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Kyuukyuu
Canada6263 Posts
Who the fuck is this kid and what is he doing above Yoon Yong Tae. The next 4 or so players are all about the same level Stats equal to baby/effort/fantasy... k... he's a good player, solid 50%+ in all three matchups and did pretty well this month but uhh. The three players he is being compared with plus the one below him all defeated "still a bonjwa despite 50% and losing to Ruby" Flash this month. Now I know Stats is on the same team but we all know he wouldn't stand a chance against Flash. | ||
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poutipou
Canada30 Posts
jaedong respected again, and bisu back on pr. lets see bisu arise now =D | ||
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dani_caliKorea
730 Posts
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
EDIT: or maybe that was this power rank. | ||
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