EPTHe was in two finals, and people still think he shouldn't be ranked #1. I don't understand it.
Power Rank 01/31/2010 - Page 8
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J1.au
Australia3596 Posts
He was in two finals, and people still think he shouldn't be ranked #1. I don't understand it. | ||
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I_Love_Bacon
United States5765 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:34 dogabutila wrote: Elo accounts for more then the last month. Thus, not really applicable to justify a power ranking in a month. JD is 3:2 vs Flash, and has beaten harder opponents more convincingly. I'm not arguing about who may or may not be better; I just think it is impossible to justify claiming that Flash was stronger in January then JD was. How do people say this? Seriously, look at both of their months of January, I'll help out. Flash: 3-1 over Calm, FBH, Stork, 2-0 Best, 3-1 Kwanro, 3-1 Movie, Hero, Calm again, then Jaedong. He had a series loss against JD and an individual loss to Really. JD: Tester, 2-0 Stats, Kal, then 3-0 Kal, 3-1 Flash, and HoeJJa. He had a loss to Crazy-Hydra and Flash. Look at the names and games played for Flash. He earned and deserved #1. If Jaedong had more games and a better chance to dethrone Flash then his series win could be weighed more heaviliy. But he didn't, and his month outside of Flash wasn't so impressive as to make Flash's own monthly accomplishments look bad.... at all. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:57 dogabutila wrote: In a monthly power ranking, how else would you give determine who played better that...month? Look at games in previous months? or that simply that month? What you are looking for, as a general strength indicator of that player is elo. In that, Flash is ranked higher then JD and there is no argument there. He has done better and elo confirms that. However, in a monthly power ranking, in the month judged. JD has the advantage in heads up, and has a better record against better opponents. How is that awful reasoning? You are probably new to this site - the power ranking was never just monthly thing (Savior was for example ranked higher than Bisu even after Bisu destroyed him 3:0 in the infamous MSL finals). And for good reasons, one month just isn't enough to tell who is the better player. The difference between Elo and PR lies elsewhere. The Elo is just cold merciless results based math, whereas PR is made by people, who analyzed the games themselves and put them in a bigger picture. And vampyr, aren't you by any means a relative to azureye? It would explained a lot. | ||
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On_Slaught
United States12190 Posts
On February 01 2010 12:11 J1.au wrote: I think Flash has the most anti-fans on this site. No other player gets so much hate. He was in two finals, and people still think he shouldn't be ranked #1. I don't understand it. His hate isn't even close to bisu. | ||
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MountainDewJunkie
United States10346 Posts
 Really and  Kwanro. Second best terran and third best zerg still get no respect? Not sure about Flash over JD, either. On the one hand, Flash had a more impressive month overall. And yet on the other... On February 01 2010 03:49 Waxangel wrote: The #2 player on your rank BEAT the #1 player on the list in the most important situation. JD should be ranked first. But it doesn't matter either way. Uh... don't really care about the rest... It's been a crazy month. | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
federer won australia open this morning , not only because he is the best , but also because he was REALLY better in mental strenght , patience and psychology . this is important part of competition . jaedong WAS the best on this final , even flash said it . game 4 MSL was not a mistake from jaedong . jaedong is a player who have various builds and strategy , he loves experimenting and taking high risks . sometimes it pays , sometimes not . flash played really really great this game , there should not be any discussion about this game . flash just outplayed the poor jaedong . about their proleague match , the consume escuse ( that im agree with ) doesnt change the fact that flash won this game , he won the competition this day . jaedong played better all the game , there is no discussion about this , but he lost the competition . and it must matter on the PR . flash deserve his 1# spot . i just cant disagree . | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
In a series that most would consider Calm just outplaying Jaedong, but it also had a lot to do with schedule. I mean if you want to cite that rough patch in Jaedong's career, sure, but it's not helping your argument. | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
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Mykill
Canada3402 Posts
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Ideas
United States8169 Posts
so good to have him back :D | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
On February 01 2010 12:41 TwoToneTerran wrote: Jaedong got 1st in that PR, despite losing in MSL to Calm. In a series that most would consider Calm just outplaying Jaedong, but it also had a lot to do with schedule. I mean if you want to cite that rough patch in Jaedong's career, sure, but it's not helping your argument. as the hardest jaedong fan , i can tell you calm really really impressed me that day . he really did smart play , micro play , great play . i loved this series , and there was no escuse about jaedong losing . 0 loses does not exist in sport . federer lose , woods lose , ali lose . jaedong lose , oov lose , nada lose , savior lose , and flash lose YES !! | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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blade55555
United States17423 Posts
On February 01 2010 12:11 J1.au wrote: I think Flash has the most anti-fans on this site. No other player gets so much hate. He was in two finals, and people still think he shouldn't be ranked #1. I don't understand it. He also tends to have the most fanboys as well so it only makes sense. | ||
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Roffles
Pitcairn19291 Posts
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Goragoth
New Zealand1065 Posts
On February 01 2010 12:47 vaMpYr wrote: as the hardest jaedong fan , i can tell you calm really really impressed me that day . he really did smart play , micro play , great play . i loved this series , and there was no escuse about jaedong losing . Ugh, I can't believe I'm replying here, since I don't think you have said a single intelligent thing in this entire discussion but here it goes: Calm never outplayed Jaedong. Calm doesn't have better ZvZ than Jaedong (although he has improved to be probably the #2 ZvZ player by now). On most days I would expect Jaedong to 3-0 or 3-1 Calm in a Bo5. Sometimes there are circumstances outside the game that let the inferior player win and ignoring them is pure and utter stupidity. After the game Jaedong stated specifically that he did not, I repeat DID NOT, practice for the MSL because he was focused on ProLeague and OSL (for the golden mouse). Not only did he not practice but he was also utterly exhausted that day from the practice for the other games. He even said afterwards that he would have been disappointed to win that series. Meanwhile Calm had ample time to practice with no other games that week at all (in fact if I remember correctly he had about 2 weeks to prepare). It is hardly surprising how that series turned out, in fact it speaks volumes about his skill that Jaedong managed to even win a game in that series. | ||
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iamho
United States3347 Posts
not saying that flash should be nr2 under jaedong though. jaedong losing to stupid tvz shit still counts as being outplayed, and even h2h in recent games flash comes out ahead. | ||
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Redshirt
434 Posts
On February 01 2010 13:05 blade55555 wrote: He also tends to have the most fanboys as well so it only makes sense. No he doesn't. Not even remotely close to the amount of people who like Stork or Jaedong these days. Really the most consistently hated progamers for really stupid reasons would probably be Bisu and Flash and no one really hates Bisu anymore because all the die hard Savior fanboys such as ForSC2 have pretty much disappeared and he's not playing at his peak level. | ||
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
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TarsTarkas
United States169 Posts
I also have similar feelings about Leta | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
On February 01 2010 12:19 I_Love_Bacon wrote: How do people say this? Seriously, look at both of their months of January, I'll help out. Flash: 3-1 over Calm, FBH, Stork, 2-0 Best, 3-1 Kwanro, 3-1 Movie, Hero, Calm again, then Jaedong. He had a series loss against JD and an individual loss to Really. JD: Tester, 2-0 Stats, Kal, then 3-0 Kal, 3-1 Flash, and HoeJJa. He had a loss to Crazy-Hydra and Flash. Look at the names and games played for Flash. He earned and deserved #1. If Jaedong had more games and a better chance to dethrone Flash then his series win could be weighed more heaviliy. But he didn't, and his month outside of Flash wasn't so impressive as to make Flash's own monthly accomplishments look bad.... at all. JD has dropped 2 games to a top 10 ranked player and has only had 3 losses overall out of 14 games. 78% winrate overall while playing vs top 10 65% of the time. 7-2 vs top 10 opponents - 76% winrate Flash dropped 7 games out of 24. 70% winrate overall playing vs top 10 45% of the time, 6-5 vs top 10 - 54% winrate. Tell me again which looks better? It's telling that Flash is 3-2 vs jaedong and 0-1 vs really who are the toughest competitors and his wins vs top 10 players are players who are lower ranking and still drops single games against them. Its clear that Flash just isn't doing as well as he was in his run up to the OSL and MSL finals. on the flip side, JD is 3-2 vs Flash and 4-0 vs Kal who is a pretty damn good player. One that people seem to keep underrating.... On February 01 2010 12:32 adelarge wrote: You are probably new to this site - the power ranking was never just monthly thing (Savior was for example ranked higher than Bisu even after Bisu destroyed him 3:0 in the infamous MSL finals). And for good reasons, one month just isn't enough to tell who is the better player. The difference between Elo and PR lies elsewhere. The Elo is just cold merciless results based math, whereas PR is made by people, who analyzed the games themselves and put them in a bigger picture. Yet, in the OP poor performance in this single month is enough to drop say, shine out of the rankings completely, and a few shaky performances are enough to keep fantasy just outside the rankings as well. Then Movies OSL placement can't give him points but somehow it should count for Flash... I just don't understand why Flash gets so much benefit of the doubt simply because he preformed well last month, when other players have done well last month and struggled as Flash has this month and drop ranks or are even excluded. | ||
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