EPTJaedong faces Flash with 2gas hivetech, against Flash's massive army. Flash was in the winning position even with swarm there, despite the fancy muta play.
Power Rank 01/31/2010 - Page 7
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TwoToneTerran
United States8841 Posts
Jaedong faces Flash with 2gas hivetech, against Flash's massive army. Flash was in the winning position even with swarm there, despite the fancy muta play. | ||
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Redshirt
434 Posts
On February 01 2010 10:51 dogabutila wrote: In a normal day, JD wins unless he makes a huge game ending mistake. How often do you think that happens? I dunno, it happened during the OSL Ro8 when Jaedong got loving smashed by Flash on Fighting Spirit. But you're going to make a excuse that whatever date that game was played wasn't a normal day, right? Protip: Starcraft progamers lose because they make mistakes. If they played a perfect game, they wouldn't lose would they? *I'm not even talking about the power rank because I don't care about it. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
On February 01 2010 10:54 Redshirt wrote: I dunno, it happened during the OSL Ro8 when Jaedong got loving smashed by Flash on Fighting Spirit. Did you see that game? It wasnt a normal day. It's pretty much the mental equivalent of G4 MSL. You could tell how tired and worn out he was in the booth pregame just watching the camera flick on to him. Basically, in the month of Jan, JD has the heads up advantage, and a better record against better opponents (defined by this same power rank) and is still ranked lower. I fail to see how this is justified. // On February 01 2010 10:54 Redshirt wrote: Protip: Starcraft progamers lose because they make mistakes. If they played a perfect game, they wouldn't lose would they? Sure, but JD makes mistakes and beats Flash anyways. Leaving ultras outside a swarm, etc. He only loses when he makes critical game ending mistakes like going guardians (nobody ever wins with guardians) or not having consume. | ||
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blue_arrow
1971 Posts
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Redshirt
434 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:00 dogabutila wrote: Did you see that game? It wasnt a normal day. It's pretty much the mental equivalent of G4 MSL. You could tell how tired and worn out he was in the booth pregame just watching the camera flick on to him. Basically, in the month of Jan, JD has the heads up advantage, and a better record against better opponents (defined by this same power rank) and is still ranked lower. I fail to see how this is justified. Doesn't matter dude. You can make the same excuse that Flash is pretty much dead having practised so hard that he produced blisters on his keyboard hand because he's just been in the OSL finals, had to prepare for his games against STX, and now prepare enough stuff in a week to beat the best zerg in the world. But those random bullshit doesn't matter because Flash at the end of the day lost the finals and was simply outplayed as a whole. On February 01 2010 11:00 dogabutila wrote: Did you see that game? It wasnt a normal day. It's pretty much the mental equivalent of G4 MSL. You could tell how tired and worn out he was in the booth pregame just watching the camera flick on to him. Basically, in the month of Jan, JD has the heads up advantage, and a better record against better opponents (defined by this same power rank) and is still ranked lower. I fail to see how this is justified. // Sure, but JD makes mistakes and beats Flash anyways. Leaving ultras outside a swarm, etc. He only loses when he makes critical game ending mistakes like going guardians (nobody ever wins with guardians) or not having consume. YES JAEDONG WANTED TO HAND FLASH FREE GAMES SO HE GOES GUARDIANS!!!!! Sorry dude, I'm not even talking about power rank here because I don't give a shit about it. Your whitewashing of Jaedong's games is hilarious however. I mean look at this quote: Sure, but JD makes mistakes and beats Flash anyways. He beat Flash in game 3 because Flash did more mistakes...tell me something new. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
And yea, Flash was simply outplayed, so again, I fail to see how the top two spots in the power rankings are justified. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals. Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters... | ||
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n.DieJokes
United States3443 Posts
On February 01 2010 10:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Imagine that exact situation -- Jaedong has consume, and a defiler at his Mineral only. He saves his mineral only with swarm, but still loses his third gas to the control group of MnM attacking it WHILE Flash pushed, and his fourth gas at bottom right which Flash had scouted. Jaedong faces Flash with 2gas hivetech, against Flash's massive army. Flash was in the winning position even with swarm there, despite the fancy muta play. Pure speculation; we have no idea when consume should have finished, I think Jaedong could have stopped Flash's army, it would have been very easy to get a group of lings around to the ramp in the havoc of darkswarm and I'm not sure Flash knew about the fourth and your assuming Flash makes both perfect decisions and micro's perfectly. What we do know was JD was at an advantage before Flash pushed out, we have no idea if that attack would have been the perfect han bang timing if consume finished on time and even if it was Flash would have lost his whole army while Jaedong had tons of drones, full tech, great up's and the ability to take back as many bases as he cared to do so much like in game 3 of the finals after JD lost those two gases (see I can speculate too) | ||
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Saracen
United States5139 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals. Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters... This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's. | ||
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Redshirt
434 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:06 dogabutila wrote: I dont think he practiced for games agaisnt STX. If you think Flash practiced significantly more then JD did then I'm done arguing. And yea, Flash was simply outplayed, so again, I fail to see how the top two spots in the power rankings are justified. What a silly thing to say. Of course Flash practiced more than Jaedong. Those two are the hardest working progamers in the business and Flash had the OSL finals and the MSL finals to prepare for. Of course he's going to be working harder since he has one more final to prepare for than Jaedong. Doesn't excuse the end result of their finals series however. | ||
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StylishVODs
Sweden5331 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:14 Saracen wrote: This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's. ok sry. How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-2 vs flash in recent games, Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals. Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters... | ||
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Lebesgue
4542 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:14 Saracen wrote: This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's. Game 3 of MSL is really questionable. Jaedong was at the lead but who knows what would have happened. We just saw in WL that even a sizeable lead can turn into a loss. | ||
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SimonB
United States1088 Posts
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AlTheCake
Canada1071 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:01 blue_arrow wrote: Really... really? Yes, REALLY. | ||
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:18 StylishVODs wrote: ok sry. How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-2 vs flash in recent games, Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals. Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters... Elo accounts for more then the last month. Thus, not really applicable to justify a power ranking in a month. JD is 3:2 vs Flash, and has beaten harder opponents more convincingly. I'm not arguing about who may or may not be better; I just think it is impossible to justify claiming that Flash was stronger in January then JD was. | ||
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L0thar
987 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:14 Saracen wrote: This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's. Wrong! The OSL RO8 may happened in December, but: 1) It's just a couple of days back, you can't simply ingore it like that. Are you saying win on 31. December should be forgotten while win on 1. January should be put into consideration? I hope not... 2) It influenced many many things which are relevant in this PR. Like Jaedong having much more easier schedule than Flash (and therefore more time to study Flash games and prepare for MSL finals). Just to show you the ridiculousness of this argument, imagine this hypotethical situation: Flash beat JD in December in BOTH OSL and MSL kicking him out. Then, at the end of the January, Flash has in one week MSL and OSL finals and ace game against Jaedong. He win both leagues but lose to JD in the ace game. Are you going to say Jaedong>Flash based on that ace game, because the OSL and MSL games are "things of the past"? Really? And dogabutila, sorry, but your reasoning is simply awful. | ||
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jblack
Canada14 Posts
the fact that im a big Stork fan not withstanding... i don't know if putting Stork at 9th was a fair call... strictly speaking if there were a matchup between Stork and any of the players from 4-8 stork would be a slight favorite. Particularly vs Really, FBH, and Leta. just my two cents. | ||
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MisteR
Netherlands595 Posts
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dogabutila
United States1438 Posts
On February 01 2010 11:37 adelarge wrote: Wrong! The OSL RO8 may happened in December, but: 1) It's just a couple of days back, you can't simply ingore it like that. Are you saying win on 31. December should be forgotten while win on 1. January should be put into consideration? I hope not... 2) It influenced many many things which are relevant in this PR. Like Jaedong having much more easier schedule than Flash (and therefore more time to study Flash games and prepare for MSL finals). Just to show you the ridiculousness of this argument, imagine this hypotethical situation: Flash beat JD in December in BOTH OSL and MSL kicking him out. Then, at the end of the January, Flash has in one week MSL and OSL finals and ace game against Jaedong. He win both leagues but lose to JD in the ace game. Are you going to say Jaedong>Flash based on that ace game, because the OSL and MSL games are "things of the past"? Really? And dogabutila, sorry, but your reasoning is simply awful. In a monthly power ranking, how else would you give determine who played better that...month? Look at games in previous months? or that simply that month? What you are looking for, as a general strength indicator of that player is elo. In that, Flash is ranked higher then JD and there is no argument there. He has done better and elo confirms that. However, in a monthly power ranking, in the month judged. JD has the advantage in heads up, and has a better record against better opponents. How is that awful reasoning? | ||
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vaMpYr
France119 Posts
On February 01 2010 09:10 TwoToneTerran wrote: Flash has a personality, as seen by his dozens of translated interviews on this very site. Flash has creativity -- he has created and performed cheeses that put Boxer's to shame, he has revolutionized every Terran match up, and on this site specifically he is exalted as a player by the more intelligent analysts for "teaching [us] something new everytime he plays." This is not to say Jaedong is not creative. I have all the respect in the world for Jaedong, but Flash is the most pragmatically creative player in the game right now. I will be happy to cite every intelligent and creative thing Flash has done for the Terran race that I can think of, if you want, but the list would be long and arduous because Flash is THE standard of every lasting metagame shift in TvX for the last 2 years. boxer just said that the kid has started to think hard about his builds and finally find his own builds he like . flash has N O T H I N G to compare with boxer . flash invented NOTHING in starcraft , just new macro builds . he just improved the nada builds . flash is just a cute child who plays great and beautiful starcraft , everyone love him . but he is just a CLASSIC player . i dont hate flash , i just hate the fact he is so much loved and overestimated compare to jaedong . flash plays beautiful starcraft , but he has NOT revolutionized ANYTHING . just IMPROVED some great macro builds . [/QUOTE] Can you mention one terran player that has better MnM micro than Flash, that is more creative, that is just simply better than Flash? And just a hint: Jaedong plays Zerg. If you can't then I have to conclude that you're either idiot or troll or both... [/QUOTE] i didnt say any terran was better than flash . flash IS the best terran of the world without any discussion . but his micro is NOT the best everywhere . boxer , nada , light , hawsin and upmagic have better MnM micro with 10 marines . with a big army , flash is better for sure . leta has a REALLY better wraith micro than flash . flash is clearly not the best with vulture micro , you can watch at nada and maybe others like fantasy , upmagic or light . flash is REALLY GOOD with goliaths , but again , i think boxer has better goliath micro , and maybe nada . the best SCV micro in history is boxer once again . flash is good with tank micro , but again , i dont see him as the best with that . i think boxer , nada and maybe fantasy are better . so clearly , flash has NOT the best micro . he has top level micro for sure , but NOT THE BEST . terran players more creative than flash ? my god where do you come from ? BOXER ? BOXER ? BOXEEERRRR ??????????????????????????? NADA ? UPMAGIC ? and maybe .. ( more discutable ) MIDAS ? SEA ? LIGHT ? REALLY ? FANTASY ? ( indeed , its not fantasy ideas , its boxer and oov ideas =) ) | ||
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