Calm - strictly speaking he gets the 10th rank since Power Outage doesn't really count. But there were some really painful games played by calm this month. Such as his game against Yellow and Mind. If you recall what I said last month about Calm and that he needed to prove himself and prove that he had fixed the holes in his game to stay in the ranks. He failed at that - he went 6-6 overall with a number of those wins being poor, and a number of the losses being humiliating (e.g. vs Flash later on in the month, not in the OSL). That is why Calm, or rather Clam, did not feature this month.
Movie - Movie got to the OSL finals by playing well in December. He did not play well in January (and neither did Shine for that matter). Movie was unable to refine his play sufficiently and as a result has a negative record for the month (even if you remove his losses against Flash). Movie has great potential, and once he refines his game he will burst back into the ranks. At the end of the day, I can't give Movie a place on the ranks just because he made the OSL finals, even though other players were eliminated earlier - they improved and their skill has shone through in other areas. Movie has been unable to transfer his success to PL/WL and hence unless he refines his play I don't expect him to do well in the next OSL.
Guemchi - Not much to say. 6-0 in Winners League is pretty damned impressive. Keep it up and you'll get on the ranks but at the moment it's a bit premature.
Zero - Zero's play slipped during January and due to a rough December I couldn't justify keeping him on the ranks. He's here because he can still take games off the very best, but he's a little too inconsistent for top 10 at the moment. I'm confident that over February, however, he will be able to remedy the situation and winning games in the WL (no more losses to Gorush okay -.-)
pre-emptive rebuttal:
Bisu - Bisu may be the greatest player in the world, but if he's not performing I'm not going to cut him any slack 'just because' he's Bisu. Bisu went 2-2 in January, lost Ace duties to Best/Fantasy and just hasn't shown any signs of being the best anymore. Honestly, Best has played a lot better than Bisu over the past month (just compare their games against FBH even), and Best was sooo close to making CBNC this month. I'm sorry Bisu fans, but he's going to need to do a lot more work before he'll get back into the ranks.
Shine - Shine had a bad month. In December he was connecting, in January he struck out, and struck out badddd. There isn't much to say here other than go watch the games, since Shine just didn't perform to the same level he did in December.
Best/Fantasy - both players are almost there, but they lack consistency. Fantasy looked really promising, but yesterdays games really shook my confidence in him. Best looked good as well, but he simply lost too many games to 'average' opponents (in unspectacular fashion) over January.
On January 31 2010 19:48 Damian wrote: Sea no CBNC ?
Sea went 3-2 over the month, but he's playing the role of cleanup for MBC so its difficult to tell where his skill lives exactly. Him, Light and Best make up my CBCBNC list haha
On January 31 2010 19:49 De4ngus wrote: Edit: Is there a way to fix the names in the sidebar? It looks kinda weird and spaced out between some of the names.
I'm expecting some controversy over Stork's placement, haha.
I'm also happy to see really grasp a high ranking as an eStro fan, even if it seems a little high in my objective perspective (3rd best player in the world at the moment?), simply because he hasn't made a significant mark in an individual league yet. However, his raw skill clearly shows through his Winner's League performance and he'll definitely be a threat in the next OSL/MSL.
Your rankings are so unexpected. You seem to be a strictly monthly player with little reliance on statistics. Gah! I can't post. I keep receiving the "Wrong Input!" screen, asdlkfajl!@!# Finally!
On January 31 2010 19:54 InFdude wrote: You are going to get flamed soooo bad by stork fans.
he is 4-3 after all =/
On January 31 2010 19:59 Avidkeystamper wrote: Your rankings are so unexpected. You seem to be a strictly monthly player with little reliance on statistics.
I'm not strictly monthly, but anything before december I've completely 'forgotten' about. I tend to only go to the month before to decide between two players who played really well over the month. I beleive stats are a good starting point, indeed if you go by stats Stork leaves the PR, Kwanro sits around # 4-5 and so on. They can't tell you a complete story, so you have to watch all the games to know what those statistics mean. For instance, Storks win over Stats was garbage whereas Kals win over Leta was incredible.
You forgot the point that the maps are imbalanced when discussing an impromptu Bo5. This map pool was just as bad as Shinhan 3. The other point is that Bo5s are never impromptu so its irrelevant, Fantasy was a strong series player because of his preparation, that was the part that mattered and JD had way better prep during that finals considering both of them had the same preparation time with JD having a one day advantage. Btw the 3hat before pool on match point was only reactionary, a 9drone scout was sent before hand both by Killer + JD.
Also Plexa might you enlighten me on how and in what way are JD and Flash revolutionizing TvZ? I am just asking this question, the builds JD used in the finals are in no way viable in a standard situation and Flash has simply been playing textbook TvZ to perfection the past season with only better placement + better hard counters to guards and better MnM micro vs Mutas, with perfect macro with minimal unit loss. I dont see any revolution, simply godlike play here.
Overall its a fine power rank, and you did very well with it and all the positions are agreeable and the PO was a nice touch. It's really hard to do the bottom spots when there simply isnt much going on.
On January 31 2010 19:54 InFdude wrote: You are going to get flamed soooo bad by stork fans.
As a Stork fan, I'm going to say this. I don't mind Stork's placement if all other placements place heavy emphasis on this month's play(such as FBH coming out of nowhere for #8 and Really at #4).
Personally, as long as the ranking is consistent with a certain set of standard, I'm fine. And if the emphasis is heavy for this month, then Stork's rank seems appropriate.
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
I don't disagree, but if 50% of these players really are top 10 right now then there's really a lack of good players. I mean just listen to the names... Really, Leta, Kwanro, HiyA. Guys like that didn't use to be top 10 (except for Kwanro who cheesed his way on a couple of PRs with what I personally never agreed with ).
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
apart from game 4 where Jaedong foresaw Flash's 8rax, why is three hatch before pool not viable against rax expand? Even Xiaoxi managed to pull it off against Idra. And 12pool lair is always executable too.
They were not once in a lifetime BOs. I am pretty sure we're gonna see more three hatch before pool games in the future. 12 hatch 11 pool is just too weak.
Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
apart from game 4 where Jaedong foresaw Flash's 8rax, why is three hatch before pool not viable against rax expand? Even Xiaoxi managed to pull it off against Idra. And 12pool lair is always executable too.
They were not once in a lifetime BOs. I am pretty sure we're gonna see more three hatch before pool games in the future. 12 hatch 11 pool is just too weak.
3hat before pool is in no way new and it is a gimmick build unless you drone scout or you are playing on a huge map like katrina or zodiac. It is definitely viable against rax expand but its a bo loss vs an 8rax or any rax first build, which is why its mind blowing that JD out mind mind gamed Flash in those series, the same flash who bunker rushed 50% of his TvZ's that month in order to psyche out JD. If you dont scout first it's just another gimmick build like a 14cc vZ. 12pool lair 2hat muta yarnc style is a good build though and can be played well, and I don't know much about it due to the fact that only top 2hat muta progamers can even pull that build off. 12hat 11 pool is not weak, its just not good enough vs the best Terran in the world on imbalanced maps.
On January 31 2010 21:21 honey_badger wrote: Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
Might as well keep Bisu as top 5 every month if you are going to use that argument. I didn't see his non PvTs so I can't really comment on this though.
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
JD's builds had to be ridiculous because he had to beat ridiculous maps. On balanced maps like Fighting Spirit, I can't see him as disfavored.
Names seem to drop in and out of recent Power Ranks so easily unless you are Flash or Jaedong. I dislike how good players in the past month can just suddenly drop out because they played slightly worse this month. Half of the names are like... meh.
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
apart from game 4 where Jaedong foresaw Flash's 8rax, why is three hatch before pool not viable against rax expand? Even Xiaoxi managed to pull it off against Idra. And 12pool lair is always executable too.
They were not once in a lifetime BOs. I am pretty sure we're gonna see more three hatch before pool games in the future. 12 hatch 11 pool is just too weak.
3hat before pool is in no way new and it is a gimmick build unless you drone scout or you are playing on a huge map like katrina or zodiac. It is definitely viable against rax expand but its a bo loss vs an 8rax or any rax first build, which is why its mind blowing that JD out mind mind gamed Flash in those series, the same flash who bunker rushed 50% of his TvZ's that month in order to psyche out JD. If you dont scout first it's just another gimmick build like a 14cc vZ. 12pool lair 2hat muta yarnc style is a good build though and can be played well, and I don't know much about it due to the fact that only top 2hat muta progamers can even pull that build off. 12hat 11 pool is not weak, its just not good enough vs the best Terran in the world on imbalanced maps.
On January 31 2010 21:21 honey_badger wrote: Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
Might as well keep Bisu as top 5 every month if you are going to use that argument. I didn't see his non PvTs so I can't really comment on this though.
8rax beats the standard 12 hatch 11 pool too. And tell me apart from ACE members who goes 2rax or rax gas nowadays in TvZ? It's all about 1rax expand nowadays. This is what makes three hatch before pool a very viable build against almost any terran.
On January 31 2010 21:36 Manit0u wrote: Why no Light in CBNC or even the rankings? He's doing very well in WL and was doing good in PL. Overlooked player but overall very consistent.
He is there, just remember that he is the invisible Terran.
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
apart from game 4 where Jaedong foresaw Flash's 8rax, why is three hatch before pool not viable against rax expand? Even Xiaoxi managed to pull it off against Idra. And 12pool lair is always executable too.
They were not once in a lifetime BOs. I am pretty sure we're gonna see more three hatch before pool games in the future. 12 hatch 11 pool is just too weak.
3hat before pool is in no way new and it is a gimmick build unless you drone scout or you are playing on a huge map like katrina or zodiac. It is definitely viable against rax expand but its a bo loss vs an 8rax or any rax first build, which is why its mind blowing that JD out mind mind gamed Flash in those series, the same flash who bunker rushed 50% of his TvZ's that month in order to psyche out JD. If you dont scout first it's just another gimmick build like a 14cc vZ. 12pool lair 2hat muta yarnc style is a good build though and can be played well, and I don't know much about it due to the fact that only top 2hat muta progamers can even pull that build off. 12hat 11 pool is not weak, its just not good enough vs the best Terran in the world on imbalanced maps.
On January 31 2010 21:21 honey_badger wrote: Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
Might as well keep Bisu as top 5 every month if you are going to use that argument. I didn't see his non PvTs so I can't really comment on this though.
8rax beats the standard 12 hatch 11 pool too. And tell me apart from ACE members who goes 2rax or rax gas nowadays in TvZ? It's all about 1rax expand nowadays. This is what makes three hatch before pool a very viable build against almost any terran.
8rax does not beat the standard 12hat 11 pool, its a micro battle there, the build Flash has been using was the 7rax and not the 8rax. I never mentioned anything about 2rax or rax gas, im just talking about rax first builds like BBS,BSB,7rax,8rax which all kill 3hat before pool instantly. The most popular rush kills 3hat before pool easily, and its even vs 12hat 11pool. It is viable vs 1rax expand, but as soon as 3hat before pool becomes popular so will the 8rax, its simply a metagame counter shift, 12hat 11pool will always be the standard.
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
apart from game 4 where Jaedong foresaw Flash's 8rax, why is three hatch before pool not viable against rax expand? Even Xiaoxi managed to pull it off against Idra. And 12pool lair is always executable too.
They were not once in a lifetime BOs. I am pretty sure we're gonna see more three hatch before pool games in the future. 12 hatch 11 pool is just too weak.
3hat before pool is in no way new and it is a gimmick build unless you drone scout or you are playing on a huge map like katrina or zodiac. It is definitely viable against rax expand but its a bo loss vs an 8rax or any rax first build, which is why its mind blowing that JD out mind mind gamed Flash in those series, the same flash who bunker rushed 50% of his TvZ's that month in order to psyche out JD. If you dont scout first it's just another gimmick build like a 14cc vZ. 12pool lair 2hat muta yarnc style is a good build though and can be played well, and I don't know much about it due to the fact that only top 2hat muta progamers can even pull that build off. 12hat 11 pool is not weak, its just not good enough vs the best Terran in the world on imbalanced maps.
On January 31 2010 21:21 honey_badger wrote: Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
Might as well keep Bisu as top 5 every month if you are going to use that argument. I didn't see his non PvTs so I can't really comment on this though.
8rax beats the standard 12 hatch 11 pool too. And tell me apart from ACE members who goes 2rax or rax gas nowadays in TvZ? It's all about 1rax expand nowadays. This is what makes three hatch before pool a very viable build against almost any terran.
8rax does not beat the standard 12hat 11 pool, its a micro battle there, the build Flash has been using was the 7rax and not the 8rax. I never mentioned anything about 2rax or rax gas, im just talking about rax first builds like BBS,BSB,7rax,8rax which all kill 3hat before pool instantly. The most popular rush kills 3hat before pool easily, and its even vs 12hat 11pool. It is viable vs 1rax expand, but as soon as 3hat before pool becomes popular so will the 8rax, its simply a metagame counter shift, 12hat 11pool will always be the standard.
Lately terrans are winning more and more with 8rax vs 12 hatch 11 pool tho. And once 8rax becomes popular so will 9pool again. Like you said its simply a metagame shift. Terrans are overusing rax expand lately so I am pretty sure zergs will do the same with three hatch before pool.
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
The key word is "impromptu". Plexa thinks that if someone were to come up to Flash/Jaedong and told them they were playing a Bo5 -right now-, Flash would be the favorite due to the wave of raw ability he's riding on. Given how ridiculously Flash has been playing lately and how strong Jaedong's builds had to be in the MSL finals, i'm inclined to agree.
apart from game 4 where Jaedong foresaw Flash's 8rax, why is three hatch before pool not viable against rax expand? Even Xiaoxi managed to pull it off against Idra. And 12pool lair is always executable too.
They were not once in a lifetime BOs. I am pretty sure we're gonna see more three hatch before pool games in the future. 12 hatch 11 pool is just too weak.
3hat before pool is in no way new and it is a gimmick build unless you drone scout or you are playing on a huge map like katrina or zodiac. It is definitely viable against rax expand but its a bo loss vs an 8rax or any rax first build, which is why its mind blowing that JD out mind mind gamed Flash in those series, the same flash who bunker rushed 50% of his TvZ's that month in order to psyche out JD. If you dont scout first it's just another gimmick build like a 14cc vZ. 12pool lair 2hat muta yarnc style is a good build though and can be played well, and I don't know much about it due to the fact that only top 2hat muta progamers can even pull that build off. 12hat 11 pool is not weak, its just not good enough vs the best Terran in the world on imbalanced maps.
On January 31 2010 21:21 honey_badger wrote: Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
Might as well keep Bisu as top 5 every month if you are going to use that argument. I didn't see his non PvTs so I can't really comment on this though.
8rax beats the standard 12 hatch 11 pool too. And tell me apart from ACE members who goes 2rax or rax gas nowadays in TvZ? It's all about 1rax expand nowadays. This is what makes three hatch before pool a very viable build against almost any terran.
8rax does not beat the standard 12hat 11 pool, its a micro battle there, the build Flash has been using was the 7rax and not the 8rax. I never mentioned anything about 2rax or rax gas, im just talking about rax first builds like BBS,BSB,7rax,8rax which all kill 3hat before pool instantly. The most popular rush kills 3hat before pool easily, and its even vs 12hat 11pool. It is viable vs 1rax expand, but as soon as 3hat before pool becomes popular so will the 8rax, its simply a metagame counter shift, 12hat 11pool will always be the standard.
Lately terrans are winning more and more with 8rax vs 12 hatch 11 pool tho. And once 8rax becomes popular so will 9pool again. Like you said its simply a metagame shift. Terrans are overusing rax expand lately so I am pretty sure zergs will do the same with three hatch before pool.
Can you give me examples of recent T wins with 8rax vs 12hat 11pool(not 12hat 11gas 2hat muta) barring Flash and his 7rax? 3hat before pool is definetly a viable build if you use it sparingly, will it become standard? Unless we get gigantic maps like Katrina and Zodiac once more I don't think its possible. I hope the new Oz build on match point becomes popular 9drone scout if 1rax/14cc go 3hat before pool into 4hat, it looks like a fine build especially if executed right (with consume researched ofc). Blind 3hat before pools on 4 player maps are gimmicks and will not become popular. Also by that same logic Zergs overusing 12hat will bring back 14cc, but thats not happening due to the gimmicky nature of the 14cc which is the T equivalent of a 3hat except it puts them way ahead of Zerg( more so than a 3hat before pool that just gives 2-3 more drones + evo w/carapace)
On January 31 2010 21:21 honey_badger wrote: Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
Because PR is not about being able to defeat some player X or player Y, but about proven performance
Sick, i like Plexa's PRs a lot
On January 31 2010 22:35 Klive5ive wrote: And Jaedong continues to be undervalued. After a dominating MSL finals performance he should be number1... no question.
Yeah, so what if MSL finals weren't even run "properly", so what if JD got dominated by Flash ALL THE TIME except for MSL finals, so what that JD's overall record is WAY worse than Flash's. He should be #1 because his fanboy says so :|
On January 31 2010 21:21 honey_badger wrote: Stork at #9 are you kidding me? How could Leta or FBH even come close to beating him in a match? Maybe Kal, maybe Kwanrizzle, but he could be much higher.
Because PR is not about being able to defeat some player X or player Y, but about proven performance
On January 31 2010 22:35 Klive5ive wrote: And Jaedong continues to be undervalued. After a dominating MSL finals performance he should be number1... no question.
Yeah, so what if MSL finals weren't even run "properly", so what if JD got dominated by Flash ALL THE TIME except for MSL finals, so what that JD's overall record is WAY worse than Flash's. He should be #1 because his fanboy says so :|
lol@80%winrate being way worse than 80% winrate
You are being hypocritical here when mentioning monthly results and saying all the time, Flash beat JD in 1 game outside the MSL finals and it was not domination, it was a fuck up by Jaedong not researching consume after outplaying Flash the entire game. Do I think JD deserves no1 over Flash this month no, do I think JD showed he was a better player than Flash in a bo5 this season and has proved himself to be just as good as Flash in his weakest mu? Yes. Who cares, just appreciate that these 2 players are the greatest of all time and they are equal, + they are so much better than anyone else that its almost funny.
Seems like only Flash and Jaedong are playing steady these past few months. Every other player has been wildly swinging between 'omg X new bonjwa' threads and 'meh' mini-slumps, but Flash/JD are always ready to kick ass anywhere, anytime.
Almost makes me feel bad for Protoss. Flash's TvP is back up to par, and Jaedong just mercilessly rapes Protoss players to the point where in any Bo5 against a Protoss, I think the most likely result is 3-0 JD sweep.
On January 31 2010 22:23 majesty.k)seRapH wrote: personally, i think stork > fbh and kal > leta, but everything else i completely agree with.
hoping to see best/bisu start actually getting into at least cnbc though =(
Took the words right out of my mouth. Kal has actually been fighting some really hard opponents and owns in all 3 matchups. Leta has been playing scrubs and auto losing vs Protoss. I could accept Leta > Kal because it's very subjective.
But i don't even see how you could make a case for FBH > Stork, when all fbh did was put together a little WL streak. His play was absolutely terrible in R2.
On January 31 2010 19:48 Damian wrote: Sea no CBNC ?
Sea went 3-2 over the month, but he's playing the role of cleanup for MBC so its difficult to tell where his skill lives exactly. Him, Light and Best make up my CBCBNC list haha
On January 31 2010 19:49 De4ngus wrote: Edit: Is there a way to fix the names in the sidebar? It looks kinda weird and spaced out between some of the names.
I'm having a coder look into it
Shouldn't it be CBNCBNC?
On January 31 2010 20:53 SuperArc wrote: I agree with the ranking 100%, but why do you say Jaedong wont have a chance against Flash in a bo5?
He out thought him once, why not a 2nd time?
Cuz Flash had much less time to prepare for his MSL match than Jaedong (OSL is more important, after all). Plexa's just saying Flash has a better chance of winning with equal preparation.
Pretty good PR for a change, spot 3-10 is really hard to determine these days but now you are at least consistent in your criteria`s for the placements.
One issue I have, while not concerning the PR, is how on earth can you consider Best game vs FBH to be better played than Bisu`s? Best got a nice build order with a slight advantage and fails horribly losing 3 goons vs mines in their first battle which again leads to him take more damage than he should which again leads to him not having enough to stop the 6fac push coming. While Bisu did 1 mistake in his game letting the scouting SCV of FBH in to see him do expo 2gate robo which turned the game into a virtually impossible build order deficit to overcome when he double expod vs a 5fac no ebay scv cut push. Still Bisu almost did the impossible when he almost held it off, despite being badly outnumbered in units he manage to defuse all mines except one (that he barely defused by picking up the goon as it was about to blow up on before it reburrowed ant popped up again to detonate). This showed some insane micro by Bisu in a terrible position, but still you rate Bests failure above that? This shows me once again how you are lacking a lot of understanding about what happens in games you are watching, just like when you commented on a lot of Calms game last month.
I guess this is me hoping for Fakesteve to return as the PR writer :p
The only qualm I have with this Power Ranking is that it doesn't give enough credit to Jaedong beating Flash. As many people have stated, the maps were strongly terran favored, and Flash was screwing with Jaedong's mind the entire month before their BO5. In addition to overcoming the best TvZ player in the history of the game, Jaedong had a lot more against him.
I really like the Power Outage on #3. It feels very appropriate.
I totally agree with putting Power Outage as #3, both as a joke and as a symbolic way to show how much better Flash and JD are compared to everyone else. It's also cool to finally see Really get some recogniton for his fantastic play.
There are some things about the PR that I find a little weird at the first sight though, such as Stork's position. FBH has been awesome and I love the fact that he's on the PR again, but 2 days of great play and all of a sudden he's ahead of the Samsung ace player?
On February 01 2010 01:18 iamho wrote: if your going to put fbh at #8 just for going 6-2 in winners league, then you might as well put guemchi at #5. see how ridiculous these standards are?
Exactly, how does
On January 31 2010 19:30 Plexa wrote: The rest of the month was very very impressive from the Khan veteran. Since the start of the Winner's League he has gone 6-2;
and
On January 31 2010 19:30 Plexa wrote: 6-0 in Winners League is pretty damned impressive.but at the moment it's a bit premature.
On January 31 2010 19:54 InFdude wrote: You are going to get flamed soooo bad by stork fans.
As a Stork fan, I'm going to say this. I don't mind Stork's placement if all other placements place heavy emphasis on this month's play(such as FBH coming out of nowhere for #8 and Really at #4).
Personally, as long as the ranking is consistent with a certain set of standard, I'm fine. And if the emphasis is heavy for this month, then Stork's rank seems appropriate.
Other Stork fans look at the example set. I do agree with your statement as well. As long as the standard is the same from month to month. Im sure Bisu fans will find something to cry about as well.
Though i'm a huge Jaedong fan (I know you aren't), I can't really fault putting him behind Flash. Flash dominated everybody for the entire month, before just being pipped out by Jaedong.
To be honest, I'd pick Jaedong over Flash in a Bo5 any time, but if you had to pick somebody to win a game of starcraft to save your life... I doubt any of us would go past Flash.
Much better PR than last month I have to admit. However, I still question your placement of JD below Flash when it was clear who was playing better Starcraft. JD was also able to overcome the imbalances of those maps with extremely well thought out builds. You can't make any assumptions that JD would lose to Flash in an "impromptu" BO5. Not trying to flame you but the fact that JD beat Flash in their BO5 in a Starleague Finals should count for a lot (although yes, he made some silly errors in WL). Undoubtedly, both players are still playing superb Starcraft, leagues above anyone else.
I applaud you for listing HiyA in the PR because he really does deserve more recognition that he gets. Let's just hope he can bring his TvT and TvZ up to par.
I was also struck by how horrible Movie's performance was post-OSL...it's almost like the kid lost his will to play and hadn't showered or eaten for days. Hopefully he can pull his weight next month.
One thing I do disagree with is the placement of FBH on the PR but no Guemchi? Guemchi has a better record in WL yet FBH secures #8 for his performance in WL alone and Guemchi is nowhere to be found???
On February 01 2010 02:57 asdfTT123 wrote: Much better PR than last month I have to admit. However, I still question your placement of JD below Flash when it was clear who was playing better Starcraft.
In that single series maybe.
Then Flash beat Jaedong a few days later.
Look you can't possibly attempt to claim that someone that got a Gold + Silver in Individual leagues WHILE being a reliable ace for their team doesn't deserve number 1. I'm sorry but it's still no contest.
The two of them against each other is 50:50 but Flash simply had a more impressive month over all.
On January 31 2010 22:35 Klive5ive wrote: And Jaedong continues to be undervalued. After a dominating MSL finals performance he should be number1... no question.
Yeah, so what if MSL finals weren't even run "properly", so what if JD got dominated by Flash ALL THE TIME except for MSL finals, so what that JD's overall record is WAY worse than Flash's. He should be #1 because his fanboy says so :|
There's only one fanboy quoted in this post. And he's been dominating ALL THE TIME.
We had a discussion a while back about how if you beat someone in an important Bo5 you should be above them. It was the MSL finals, a lot was on the line, and Jaedong came out on top. He should be number1 this month.
i think flash deserve his 1#rank . his overall performance during january was the best . im starting to really hate this child , but i must admit it . but being 1# doesnt mean he is better than JD or something .
i ask you to believe me , im very objective about starcraft professional scene , even if i have a lot of preference and hate about progamers .
jaedong is better than flash , he has shown it during MSL finals and proleague match . flash won this game on match point because of JD mistake , flash won , congratulations to him , he didnt played so bad . but jaedong just confirmed in this game he play better starcraft than flash .
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
jaedong is really really better than he was in 2008 . jaedong is now the king of competition . you MUST admit that .
flash deserve the 1# spot for january , but he does NOT deserve the "best player" title . stop saying flash always dominate JD or flash is better , that is simply NOT TRUE .
You do not deserve to be above someone just because you beat them in a Bo5. There's a lot more to it than that. Clam wasn't ranked above JD when he trashed him, Iris wasn't ranked above Bisu etc. Flash at #1 is 100% correct because he accomplished more this season. I still think JD is just as good as Flash though.
On February 01 2010 04:08 vaMpYr wrote: i think flash deserve his 1#rank . his overall performance during january was the best . im starting to really hate this child , but i must admit it . but being 1# doesnt mean he is better than JD or something .
i ask you to believe me , im very objective about starcraft professional scene , even if i have a lot of preference and hate about progamers .
jaedong is better than flash , he has shown it during MSL finals and proleague match . flash won this game on match point because of JD mistake , flash won , congratulations to him , he didnt played so bad . but jaedong just confirmed in this game he play better starcraft than flash .
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
jaedong is really really better than he was in 2008 . jaedong is now the king of competition . you MUST admit that .
flash deserve the 1# spot for january , but he does NOT deserve the "best player" title . stop saying flash always dominate JD or flash is better , that is simply NOT TRUE .
Imo, Jaedong is better than FlaSh in multitasking and micro. But, FlaSh is a great player who THINKS, yes, he is a very smart player and his strategical play is awesome.
On February 01 2010 03:49 Waxangel wrote: What you believe will happen doesn't matter.
The #2 player on your rank BEAT the #1 player on the list in the most important situation. JD should be ranked first.
Flash accomplished more than Jaedong this month and this season, therefore Flash should be #1. Making both finals at the same time is such a difficult and rare feat that I don't think losing one takes much away from it. Especially considering he has also been the best performer in Proleague.
If Flash had lost in the semifinals his head to head record with Jaedong would look much better and he undoubtedly would still have received #1 on the strength of that and his OSL win. His overall achievements would be worse and Jaedong's, assuming he still won the MSL, would be the same. You want to bump Flash a rank for not losing to Kwanro?
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
I dont think the FvJ-ACE match should be an argument for placing Flash ahead of Jeadong! I agree with Flash at #1, but this argument is just poor this way. It should be the otherway around - jeadong fooling his win away keeps him below Flash, but not Flash winning this game keeps him ahead. And its clear to me that Jeadong should have been at #1, if he had not blundered that game. Thus I would go with betting on Jaedong in another Bo5 vs Flash.
So I am ok with Flash at #1, but dont like the FvJ-ACE interpretation.
On February 01 2010 04:14 Holgerius wrote: You do not deserve to be above someone just because you beat them in a Bo5. There's a lot more to it than that. Clam wasn't ranked above JD when he trashed him, Iris wasn't ranked above Bisu etc. Flash at #1 is 100% correct because he accomplished more this season. I still think JD is just as good as Flash though.
Agreed, and everyone fucking needs to understand how smashed flash would feel in game 4. Some poeple in TL.net is gonna say that since he is a professional, he needs to get his shit together. Well guys, I ain't gonna specialize from Korea. But that hit Flash hard obviously. That's what fucking matters. Noone would be unaffected, if all their support was expelled from the audience. Then come ahead and say that he's a whoss when he can't play to his best without results. If I were into mr Lee Young Ho's head, I would have feeled excited, happy and soo glad that his family took their time to travel all the way to Seoul. He said this before that he is shocked on how they come to support him. Then imagine what it'd be like for him to suddenly have them expelled from the audience. If I were him I'd sure the hell panick. + Show Spoiler +
To wrap it up; Flash was mentally BROKEN game 4. He tried to act sportslike because he and Jaedong are good friends. He doesn't want to ruin their friendship or make it any more awkward than nessescary
It's not as if Flash losing to Jaedong in a bo5 is groundbreaking. This is the same kind of argument Jaedong has had to fight against in the past. He loses the bo3, wins the bo5, and somehow it's rationalized that Flash is the better player in the end. This time we have the interesting little power outage twist to further blow smoke on things.
The rest of the PR this month seems to be taking the idea that it should have more focus on the players who were most active in the month... and running wild with it. I'm not sure this is the right strategy to go with during the WL part of the season.
Haha. Reading responses to the power rank is always amazing - other people's passion for certain players completely outdoes my own ._.
Glad to see Flash and Jaedong where they should be - at the top with a notable gap Glad to see Leta on the PR just in general, his consistency vs A class is something I admire, completely ignoring any claims about his lack of S class consistency - makes me feel as though he should be mid to low ranks on the PR -every month-, as long as he keeps such consistency up.
Too bad that Stork fell so far - but Stork was placed above Jaedong last month, so I guess us Stork fans should be able to deal with the low ranking for the month? Stork's play definitely wasn't as good as last month's anyways ._. Hopefully next month~
Anyways, an enjoyable read as always! Too bad PR's don't come out more often
On February 01 2010 05:51 ProoM wrote: This power rank is kinda lol... 5 of the 3-10 players should be in top 10 lol :D. Kal, stork, that's ok, but Kwandro? Really? FBH? cmon....
LOL are you kidding me? Really has deserved a spot on the PR since the start of the PL season.
I can kind of agree with FBH's appearance on here over Guemchi, which has absolutely NO basis though.
On February 01 2010 05:51 ProoM wrote: This power rank is kinda lol... 5 of the 3-10 players should be in top 10 lol :D. Kal, stork, that's ok, but Kwandro? Really? FBH? cmon....
LOL are you kidding me? Really has deserved a spot on the PR since the start of the PL season.
I can kind of agree with FBH's appearance on here over Guemchi, which has absolutely NO basis though.
Well, it does. Guemchi 2-0 over Ace, not as good as 3-1 against eSTRO imo. Furthermore, Guemchi only really exploded towards the end whereas FBH played strong against Flash at the start of the month and then the results followed after. FBH played better over the whole month, Guemchi played better right at the end.
I do agree with Flash at #1 and Jaedong at #2 (those two are monsters right now, Flash a little more so and that's coming from a giant Jaedong fanboy). But the rest of the ranking is just terrible. Obvious Terran bias for a start. 5/9 Terrans in the PR when Terrans have been getting destroyed all over the place and we haven't seen more than 2-3 in the PR for months? Good grief. Hiya/FBH maybe could have shown up in CBNC but don't deserve PR spots and Really/Leta should have low ranks somewhere. I really hate these ultra dynamic PRs where you just know half or more of the players will be off the rank next months and replaced with whoever happens to be on a hot streak right now.
All that said though, I'm a strong believer that whoever writes the PR makes the rules and if they want to draw names out of a hat to make the ranking then so be it (I'm not saying that this is what happened here).
So much Kwanro hate. Ya'll really don't like the fact that he's probably the 3rd best zerg in the world right now when it comes to results do you?
He lost to Flash. So has everyone else in this game except JD (who is still hit-or-miss against Flash himself).
Kwanro probably deserves to be higher than he currently is. Stop trying to piss away his play simply because you get rolled by people like him on iCCup and dislike it. His 3-0 rout of Light was brilliant, he has taken ace duties away from Zero recently, and has proven he is strong in every matchup in both short and long games.
Compared to last month this looks like a really spot on rank . Every player feels in the right place except for Kwanro who is kinda random at 7 , but i can't really think of any player who did something outstanding to replace him . If you ask me i still think Calm should be there instead of him even thought he has been struggling against terran . Calm has been a beast in ZvZ and his other MUs are decent at worst .
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
this is not showing any intelligence or something from flash . just showing that he improved a lot . what he did was really good play , i loved that trust me . but it was nothing really brillant or something , just beautiful . flash has weakness , he is not perfect . flash fanboys sees him as a god or something ? flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
You're an idiot.
I mean you're a blatant one, so much so that you're pretty troll worthy. What the hell makes you the foremost expert on who does and who doesn't have a personality in the pro scene...who the hell are you to claim that Flash isn't one of the most brilliant Terran players to ever play the game?
You basically claim he can't micro when Flash has the best MnM control in the WORLD. He has AMAZING micro.
You know what? Stop posting, seriously. You claim someone that says that Flash is better than Jaedong is blind when you spout a bunch of crap that you have no clue about.
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
You're an idiot.
I mean you're a blatant one, so much so that you're pretty troll worthy. What the hell makes you the foremost expert on who does and who doesn't have a personality in the pro scene...who the hell are you to claim that Flash isn't one of the most brilliant Terran players to ever play the game?
You basically claim he can't micro when Flash has the best MnM control in the WORLD. He has AMAZING micro.
You know what? Stop posting, seriously. You claim someone that says that Flash is better than Jaedong is blind when you spout a bunch of crap that you have no clue about.
flash has NOT the best MnM micro in the world . flash is NOT one of the most brilliant terran player to ever play the game . he is just some REALLY talented kid . that NOT makes him the best . you are just blind because he is young and he is lovely because of that and blabla . WATCH MORE STARCRAFT . he is VERY good with a big army ( maybe the best terran ever in this ) , he has MONSTER macro ( jaedong has too by the way ) , he is a VERY good player for sure . but he is NOT the best . YOU JUST CANT TELL ME FLASH IS BETTER THAN JAEDONG FOR NOW . maybe in some months jaedong will fall down and flash will be even better , and you will tell me that again . but for now , you just CANT .
STOP UNDERESTIMATE JAEDONG AND OVERESTIMATE FLASH . GET OBJECTIVITY PLEASE .
and by the way ,
"flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid ."
this was my subjective and emotive moment , i never said it was the true , its my personnal opinion .
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
You're an idiot.
I mean you're a blatant one, so much so that you're pretty troll worthy. What the hell makes you the foremost expert on who does and who doesn't have a personality in the pro scene...who the hell are you to claim that Flash isn't one of the most brilliant Terran players to ever play the game?
You basically claim he can't micro when Flash has the best MnM control in the WORLD. He has AMAZING micro.
You know what? Stop posting, seriously. You claim someone that says that Flash is better than Jaedong is blind when you spout a bunch of crap that you have no clue about.
flash has NOT the best MnM micro in the world . flash is NOT one of the most brilliant terran player to ever play the game . he is just some REALLY talented kid . that NOT makes him the best . you are just blind because he is young and he is lovely because of that and blabla . WATCH MORE STARCRAFT . he is VERY good with a big army ( maybe the best terran ever in this ) , he has MONSTER macro ( jaedong has too by the way ) , he is a VERY good player for sure . but he is NOT the best . YOU JUST CANT TELL ME FLASH IS BETTER THAN JAEDONG FOR NOW . maybe in some months jaedong will fall down and flash will be even better , and you will tell me that again . but for now , you just CANT .
STOP UNDERESTIMATE JAEDONG AND OVERESTIMATE FLASH . GET OBJECTIVITY PLEASE .
and by the way ,
"flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid ."
this was my subjective and emotive moment , i never said it was the true , its my personnal opinion .
lollllllll. what a fanboy -_-. Kal above Stork made me eye twitch but eh, it's ok cuz we all know who's the best toss
There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
2-2 vs flash even taking out the power outage game where he was ahead far and away. The two games flash won were not by his own strength but because JD made a mistake.
It would not have been surprising to see all of those games go to JD at all. So, how is it possible to say that flash is better then him? Cause flash can beat other players who are not as good? JD can beat them too. Lets not forget him destroying #6 Kal.
Demolishing the #1 player and #6 player and finishing #2 does not make sense when the #1 player hasn't done the same against anybody in the top 10 power rankings.....
I hate my fantasy team, i had Kwanro last round when he played well but my anti-team consisting on EffOrt, Calm, RorO and Sea (traded) drew my blood. Now i have FBH on anti...
Thus being said i am sorry for EffOrt or Violet not being in CNBC, but i am glad to see Movie, Shine, Bisu are out of hand. They were over hyped for months. I wonder what the hell fantasy and Best are in the CNBC since they lost alot and having Only a couple of good wins...
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
You're an idiot.
I mean you're a blatant one, so much so that you're pretty troll worthy. What the hell makes you the foremost expert on who does and who doesn't have a personality in the pro scene...who the hell are you to claim that Flash isn't one of the most brilliant Terran players to ever play the game?
You basically claim he can't micro when Flash has the best MnM control in the WORLD. He has AMAZING micro.
You know what? Stop posting, seriously. You claim someone that says that Flash is better than Jaedong is blind when you spout a bunch of crap that you have no clue about.
flash has NOT the best MnM micro in the world . flash is NOT one of the most brilliant terran player to ever play the game . he is just some REALLY talented kid . that NOT makes him the best . you are just blind because he is young and he is lovely because of that and blabla . WATCH MORE STARCRAFT . he is VERY good with a big army ( maybe the best terran ever in this ) , he has MONSTER macro ( jaedong has too by the way ) , he is a VERY good player for sure . but he is NOT the best . YOU JUST CANT TELL ME FLASH IS BETTER THAN JAEDONG FOR NOW . maybe in some months jaedong will fall down and flash will be even better , and you will tell me that again . but for now , you just CANT .
STOP UNDERESTIMATE JAEDONG AND OVERESTIMATE FLASH . GET OBJECTIVITY PLEASE .
and by the way ,
"flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid ."
this was my subjective and emotive moment , i never said it was the true , its my personnal opinion .
Flash has a personality, as seen by his dozens of translated interviews on this very site. Flash has creativity -- he has created and performed cheeses that put Boxer's to shame, he has revolutionized every Terran match up, and on this site specifically he is exalted as a player by the more intelligent analysts for "teaching [us] something new everytime he plays."
This is not to say Jaedong is not creative. I have all the respect in the world for Jaedong, but Flash is the most pragmatically creative player in the game right now.
I will be happy to cite every intelligent and creative thing Flash has done for the Terran race that I can think of, if you want, but the list would be long and arduous because Flash is THE standard of every lasting metagame shift in TvX for the last 2 years.
Sweet, I'm happy to see HiyA finally crack the power rank. He has been playing solid this season in proleague. You would think Oz would be well off with a solid secondary contributer to Jaedong, but the Protoss line up has been trash.
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
You're an idiot.
I mean you're a blatant one, so much so that you're pretty troll worthy. What the hell makes you the foremost expert on who does and who doesn't have a personality in the pro scene...who the hell are you to claim that Flash isn't one of the most brilliant Terran players to ever play the game?
You basically claim he can't micro when Flash has the best MnM control in the WORLD. He has AMAZING micro.
You know what? Stop posting, seriously. You claim someone that says that Flash is better than Jaedong is blind when you spout a bunch of crap that you have no clue about.
flash has NOT the best MnM micro in the world . flash is NOT one of the most brilliant terran player to ever play the game . he is just some REALLY talented kid . that NOT makes him the best . you are just blind because he is young and he is lovely because of that and blabla . WATCH MORE STARCRAFT . he is VERY good with a big army ( maybe the best terran ever in this ) , he has MONSTER macro ( jaedong has too by the way ) , he is a VERY good player for sure . but he is NOT the best . YOU JUST CANT TELL ME FLASH IS BETTER THAN JAEDONG FOR NOW . maybe in some months jaedong will fall down and flash will be even better , and you will tell me that again . but for now , you just CANT .
STOP UNDERESTIMATE JAEDONG AND OVERESTIMATE FLASH . GET OBJECTIVITY PLEASE .
and by the way ,
"flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid ."
this was my subjective and emotive moment , i never said it was the true , its my personnal opinion .
Can you mention one terran player that has better MnM micro than Flash, that is more creative, that is just simply better than Flash? And just a hint: Jaedong plays Zerg.
If you can't then I have to conclude that you're either idiot or troll or both...
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
this is not showing any intelligence or something from flash . just showing that he improved a lot . what he did was really good play , i loved that trust me . but it was nothing really brillant or something , just beautiful . flash has weakness , he is not perfect . flash fanboys sees him as a god or something ? flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
Standard capitalization would do wonders for your credibility
On February 01 2010 08:34 dogabutila wrote: There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
Why are these justifications for anything? The better player ALWAYS wins and it just happened that Flash won his games in Winner's League and that game on Ultimatum because at the end of the day Jaedong played worse (forgetting consume is a massive mistake and don't assume it isn't).
Jaedong won the MSL finals and that simply means he was the better player that day but really they're more or less at the same level.
Flash had a great month. He did more than Jaedong, despite losing MSL to him. As others have stated, the rest of the ranking is somewhat up in the air so I have no real objection as to placements and those on the cusp whether they got in or not.
On February 01 2010 08:34 dogabutila wrote: There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
Why are these justifications for anything? The better player ALWAYS wins and it just happened that Flash won his games in Winner's League and that game on Ultimatum because at the end of the day Jaedong played worse (forgetting consume is a massive mistake and don't assume it isn't).
Jaedong won the MSL finals and that simply means he was the better player that day but really they're more or less at the same level.
Not to mention, there's no way anybody can look at G3 subjectively and say flash got destroyed when, despite the colossal failure that was the power outage, it was a fantastic game.
On February 01 2010 08:34 dogabutila wrote: There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
Why are these justifications for anything? The better player ALWAYS wins and it just happened that Flash won his games in Winner's League and that game on Ultimatum because at the end of the day Jaedong played worse (forgetting consume is a massive mistake and don't assume it isn't).
Jaedong won the MSL finals and that simply means he was the better player that day but really they're more or less at the same level.
In a normal day, JD wins unless he makes a huge game ending mistake. How often do you think that happens?
Flash drops a game against both calm and kwanro, who are ranked lower then Kal, and JD 3-0's Kal. I dont see any real justification in how flash can have a higher power rank then JD.
Really? WTF? Really is clearly inferior to Stork yet he is above him. I don't mind Stork's placement but to place really higher is really stupid. In a Bo5, I'll put my money on Stork.
Imagine that exact situation -- Jaedong has consume, and a defiler at his Mineral only. He saves his mineral only with swarm, but still loses his third gas to the control group of MnM attacking it WHILE Flash pushed, and his fourth gas at bottom right which Flash had scouted.
Jaedong faces Flash with 2gas hivetech, against Flash's massive army. Flash was in the winning position even with swarm there, despite the fancy muta play.
On February 01 2010 08:34 dogabutila wrote: There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
Why are these justifications for anything? The better player ALWAYS wins and it just happened that Flash won his games in Winner's League and that game on Ultimatum because at the end of the day Jaedong played worse (forgetting consume is a massive mistake and don't assume it isn't).
Jaedong won the MSL finals and that simply means he was the better player that day but really they're more or less at the same level.
In a normal day, JD wins unless he makes a huge game ending mistake. How often do you think that happens?
I dunno, it happened during the OSL Ro8 when Jaedong got loving smashed by Flash on Fighting Spirit. But you're going to make a excuse that whatever date that game was played wasn't a normal day, right?
Protip: Starcraft progamers lose because they make mistakes. If they played a perfect game, they wouldn't lose would they?
*I'm not even talking about the power rank because I don't care about it.
On February 01 2010 08:34 dogabutila wrote: There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
Why are these justifications for anything? The better player ALWAYS wins and it just happened that Flash won his games in Winner's League and that game on Ultimatum because at the end of the day Jaedong played worse (forgetting consume is a massive mistake and don't assume it isn't).
Jaedong won the MSL finals and that simply means he was the better player that day but really they're more or less at the same level.
In a normal day, JD wins unless he makes a huge game ending mistake. How often do you think that happens?
I dunno, it happened during the OSL Ro8 when Jaedong got loving smashed by Flash on Fighting Spirit.
Did you see that game? It wasnt a normal day. It's pretty much the mental equivalent of G4 MSL. You could tell how tired and worn out he was in the booth pregame just watching the camera flick on to him.
Basically, in the month of Jan, JD has the heads up advantage, and a better record against better opponents (defined by this same power rank) and is still ranked lower. I fail to see how this is justified.
//
On February 01 2010 10:54 Redshirt wrote:
Protip: Starcraft progamers lose because they make mistakes. If they played a perfect game, they wouldn't lose would they?
Sure, but JD makes mistakes and beats Flash anyways. Leaving ultras outside a swarm, etc. He only loses when he makes critical game ending mistakes like going guardians (nobody ever wins with guardians) or not having consume.
On February 01 2010 08:34 dogabutila wrote: There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
Why are these justifications for anything? The better player ALWAYS wins and it just happened that Flash won his games in Winner's League and that game on Ultimatum because at the end of the day Jaedong played worse (forgetting consume is a massive mistake and don't assume it isn't).
Jaedong won the MSL finals and that simply means he was the better player that day but really they're more or less at the same level.
In a normal day, JD wins unless he makes a huge game ending mistake. How often do you think that happens?
I dunno, it happened during the OSL Ro8 when Jaedong got loving smashed by Flash on Fighting Spirit.
Did you see that game? It wasnt a normal day. It's pretty much the mental equivalent of G4 MSL. You could tell how tired and worn out he was in the booth pregame just watching the camera flick on to him.
Basically, in the month of Jan, JD has the heads up advantage, and a better record against better opponents (defined by this same power rank) and is still ranked lower. I fail to see how this is justified.
Doesn't matter dude. You can make the same excuse that Flash is pretty much dead having practised so hard that he produced blisters on his keyboard hand because he's just been in the OSL finals, had to prepare for his games against STX, and now prepare enough stuff in a week to beat the best zerg in the world. But those random bullshit doesn't matter because Flash at the end of the day lost the finals and was simply outplayed as a whole.
On February 01 2010 08:34 dogabutila wrote: There is just no way that flash should be over JD. JD destroyed flash in the finals. Game 1 was simple. Game 2 was wtf greater spire, otherwise he wins easily. G3 he destroyed flash. G4 he destroyed flash. WL he outplays flash and doesnt research consume.
Why are these justifications for anything? The better player ALWAYS wins and it just happened that Flash won his games in Winner's League and that game on Ultimatum because at the end of the day Jaedong played worse (forgetting consume is a massive mistake and don't assume it isn't).
Jaedong won the MSL finals and that simply means he was the better player that day but really they're more or less at the same level.
In a normal day, JD wins unless he makes a huge game ending mistake. How often do you think that happens?
I dunno, it happened during the OSL Ro8 when Jaedong got loving smashed by Flash on Fighting Spirit.
Did you see that game? It wasnt a normal day. It's pretty much the mental equivalent of G4 MSL. You could tell how tired and worn out he was in the booth pregame just watching the camera flick on to him.
Basically, in the month of Jan, JD has the heads up advantage, and a better record against better opponents (defined by this same power rank) and is still ranked lower. I fail to see how this is justified.
Protip: Starcraft progamers lose because they make mistakes. If they played a perfect game, they wouldn't lose would they?
Sure, but JD makes mistakes and beats Flash anyways. Leaving ultras outside a swarm, etc. He only loses when he makes critical game ending mistakes like going guardians (nobody ever wins with guardians) or not having consume.
YES JAEDONG WANTED TO HAND FLASH FREE GAMES SO HE GOES GUARDIANS!!!!! Sorry dude, I'm not even talking about power rank here because I don't give a shit about it. Your whitewashing of Jaedong's games is hilarious however.
I mean look at this quote: Sure, but JD makes mistakes and beats Flash anyways. He beat Flash in game 3 because Flash did more mistakes...tell me something new.
How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
On February 01 2010 10:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Imagine that exact situation -- Jaedong has consume, and a defiler at his Mineral only. He saves his mineral only with swarm, but still loses his third gas to the control group of MnM attacking it WHILE Flash pushed, and his fourth gas at bottom right which Flash had scouted.
Jaedong faces Flash with 2gas hivetech, against Flash's massive army. Flash was in the winning position even with swarm there, despite the fancy muta play.
Pure speculation; we have no idea when consume should have finished, I think Jaedong could have stopped Flash's army, it would have been very easy to get a group of lings around to the ramp in the havoc of darkswarm and I'm not sure Flash knew about the fourth and your assuming Flash makes both perfect decisions and micro's perfectly. What we do know was JD was at an advantage before Flash pushed out, we have no idea if that attack would have been the perfect han bang timing if consume finished on time and even if it was Flash would have lost his whole army while Jaedong had tons of drones, full tech, great up's and the ability to take back as many bases as he cared to do so much like in game 3 of the finals after JD lost those two gases (see I can speculate too)
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
On February 01 2010 11:06 dogabutila wrote: I dont think he practiced for games agaisnt STX. If you think Flash practiced significantly more then JD did then I'm done arguing.
And yea, Flash was simply outplayed, so again, I fail to see how the top two spots in the power rankings are justified.
What a silly thing to say. Of course Flash practiced more than Jaedong. Those two are the hardest working progamers in the business and Flash had the OSL finals and the MSL finals to prepare for. Of course he's going to be working harder since he has one more final to prepare for than Jaedong.
Doesn't excuse the end result of their finals series however.
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
ok sry.
How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-2 vs flash in recent games, Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
Game 3 of MSL is really questionable. Jaedong was at the lead but who knows what would have happened. We just saw in WL that even a sizeable lead can turn into a loss.
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
ok sry.
How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-2 vs flash in recent games, Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
Elo accounts for more then the last month. Thus, not really applicable to justify a power ranking in a month. JD is 3:2 vs Flash, and has beaten harder opponents more convincingly.
I'm not arguing about who may or may not be better; I just think it is impossible to justify claiming that Flash was stronger in January then JD was.
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
Wrong! The OSL RO8 may happened in December, but: 1) It's just a couple of days back, you can't simply ingore it like that. Are you saying win on 31. December should be forgotten while win on 1. January should be put into consideration? I hope not... 2) It influenced many many things which are relevant in this PR. Like Jaedong having much more easier schedule than Flash (and therefore more time to study Flash games and prepare for MSL finals).
Just to show you the ridiculousness of this argument, imagine this hypotethical situation: Flash beat JD in December in BOTH OSL and MSL kicking him out. Then, at the end of the January, Flash has in one week MSL and OSL finals and ace game against Jaedong. He win both leagues but lose to JD in the ace game. Are you going to say Jaedong>Flash based on that ace game, because the OSL and MSL games are "things of the past"? Really?
And dogabutila, sorry, but your reasoning is simply awful.
i'm all for a bit of humor, but putting Power Outage at 3rd kind of makes a joke of the whole power rank system... and though its true that JD and Flash are so far ahead of everyone that there is a big buffer zone in between second and third... if "Power Outage" wasn't there it would free up another 10th spot for someone deserving of it... like even Guemchi or something who went 6-1 in January.
the fact that im a big Stork fan not withstanding... i don't know if putting Stork at 9th was a fair call... strictly speaking if there were a matchup between Stork and any of the players from 4-8 stork would be a slight favorite. Particularly vs Really, FBH, and Leta.
I guess I have to agree with the ranking, but having Leta on 5 leaves a bad taste in my mouth... Though it's all good with Kal, Kwanro, Firebathero and Hiya all making an appearance
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
Wrong! The OSL RO8 may happened in December, but: 1) It's just a couple of days back, you can't simply ingore it like that. Are you saying win on 31. December should be forgotten while win on 1. January should be put into consideration? I hope not... 2) It influenced many many things which are relevant in this PR. Like Jaedong having much more easier schedule than Flash (and therefore more time to study Flash games and prepare for MSL finals).
Just to show you the ridiculousness of this argument, imagine this hypotethical situation: Flash beat JD in December in BOTH OSL and MSL kicking him out. Then, at the end of the January, Flash has in one week MSL and OSL finals and ace game against Jaedong. He win both leagues but lose to JD in the ace game. Are you going to say Jaedong>Flash based on that ace game, because the OSL and MSL games are "things of the past"? Really?
And dogabutila, sorry, but your reasoning is simply awful.
In a monthly power ranking, how else would you give determine who played better that...month? Look at games in previous months? or that simply that month? What you are looking for, as a general strength indicator of that player is elo. In that, Flash is ranked higher then JD and there is no argument there. He has done better and elo confirms that.
However, in a monthly power ranking, in the month judged. JD has the advantage in heads up, and has a better record against better opponents. How is that awful reasoning?
flash is maybe the best in multitasking , but he sucks in many ways . he sucks in strategy and thinking , he is NOT the best in micro at all . ( he has good micro for sure , but not the best . check it harder , youll see ) . he sucks in mental strenght and psychologic .
WTF!!! Did you not watch game two of the MSL finals? Flash might have demonstrated some of the best strategic thinking in TvZ ever. JD turtled hard, quickly got 4 gas. Flash knows exactly how to counter this. JD flies in his mutas into flash's base and sees that Flash has double star ports with two addons, and tricks JD into thinking, "Okay, he's gonna get vessels so I can inflict a lot of damage with my guardians." So JD gets guardians and what does flash do? He gets two WRAITHS instead of two vessels. If he hadn't done that then JD would've inflicted HEAVY damage with his guardians. Flash makes his two science vessels afterwards. JD is still in a pretty good position at this point, he's sunkened heavily and only had one weak spot. So flash makes two dropships afterwards. JD knows that the only way flash is coming back is with drops, so he has scourge and zerglings patrolling his ridges. So flash D-mats two dropships and drops at JD's only weak point. Flash's thinking was perfect, his timing was even better. If he had dropped 15 seconds later, JD would've had way too much shit and he would've defended that drop easily.
flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid .
flash sucks in psychologic . flash sucks in creativity . flash sucks in intelligence . flash sucks in mental strenght . he is NOT a micro player like jaedong , bisu or boxer . he loves turtle . he is NOTHING . he just learnt starcraft copying progamers when he was 12 . he just SUCKS compare to jaedong .
i must agree that he deserve the 1#spot for january , but dont tell me he is better than jaedong . FOR GOD SAKE , DONT TELL ME THAT CRAP .
do you watch starcraft ? do you know starcraft ?
NOBODY on earth has the right to say that flash is now better than jaedong . that would be just BLINDNESS .
You're an idiot.
I mean you're a blatant one, so much so that you're pretty troll worthy. What the hell makes you the foremost expert on who does and who doesn't have a personality in the pro scene...who the hell are you to claim that Flash isn't one of the most brilliant Terran players to ever play the game?
You basically claim he can't micro when Flash has the best MnM control in the WORLD. He has AMAZING micro.
You know what? Stop posting, seriously. You claim someone that says that Flash is better than Jaedong is blind when you spout a bunch of crap that you have no clue about.
flash has NOT the best MnM micro in the world . flash is NOT one of the most brilliant terran player to ever play the game . he is just some REALLY talented kid . that NOT makes him the best . you are just blind because he is young and he is lovely because of that and blabla . WATCH MORE STARCRAFT . he is VERY good with a big army ( maybe the best terran ever in this ) , he has MONSTER macro ( jaedong has too by the way ) , he is a VERY good player for sure . but he is NOT the best . YOU JUST CANT TELL ME FLASH IS BETTER THAN JAEDONG FOR NOW . maybe in some months jaedong will fall down and flash will be even better , and you will tell me that again . but for now , you just CANT .
STOP UNDERESTIMATE JAEDONG AND OVERESTIMATE FLASH . GET OBJECTIVITY PLEASE .
and by the way ,
"flash is just a remake of iloveoov , i HATE that . nothing really special .
special players are the ones with PERSONALITY . flash has NOTHING .
special player is BOXER . special player is Nal_Ra . special player is jaedong . flash is nothing like them . nothing . just another monster kid ."
this was my subjective and emotive moment , i never said it was the true , its my personnal opinion .
Flash has a personality, as seen by his dozens of translated interviews on this very site. Flash has creativity -- he has created and performed cheeses that put Boxer's to shame, he has revolutionized every Terran match up, and on this site specifically he is exalted as a player by the more intelligent analysts for "teaching [us] something new everytime he plays."
This is not to say Jaedong is not creative. I have all the respect in the world for Jaedong, but Flash is the most pragmatically creative player in the game right now.
I will be happy to cite every intelligent and creative thing Flash has done for the Terran race that I can think of, if you want, but the list would be long and arduous because Flash is THE standard of every lasting metagame shift in TvX for the last 2 years.
boxer just said that the kid has started to think hard about his builds and finally find his own builds he like . flash has N O T H I N G to compare with boxer .
flash invented NOTHING in starcraft , just new macro builds . he just improved the nada builds . flash is just a cute child who plays great and beautiful starcraft , everyone love him . but he is just a CLASSIC player .
i dont hate flash , i just hate the fact he is so much loved and overestimated compare to jaedong .
flash plays beautiful starcraft , but he has NOT revolutionized ANYTHING . just IMPROVED some great macro builds .
[/QUOTE]
Can you mention one terran player that has better MnM micro than Flash, that is more creative, that is just simply better than Flash? And just a hint: Jaedong plays Zerg.
If you can't then I have to conclude that you're either idiot or troll or both... [/QUOTE]
i didnt say any terran was better than flash . flash IS the best terran of the world without any discussion . but his micro is NOT the best everywhere . boxer , nada , light , hawsin and upmagic have better MnM micro with 10 marines . with a big army , flash is better for sure . leta has a REALLY better wraith micro than flash . flash is clearly not the best with vulture micro , you can watch at nada and maybe others like fantasy , upmagic or light . flash is REALLY GOOD with goliaths , but again , i think boxer has better goliath micro , and maybe nada . the best SCV micro in history is boxer once again . flash is good with tank micro , but again , i dont see him as the best with that . i think boxer , nada and maybe fantasy are better . so clearly , flash has NOT the best micro . he has top level micro for sure , but NOT THE BEST .
terran players more creative than flash ? my god where do you come from ?
On February 01 2010 11:34 dogabutila wrote: Elo accounts for more then the last month. Thus, not really applicable to justify a power ranking in a month. JD is 3:2 vs Flash, and has beaten harder opponents more convincingly.
I'm not arguing about who may or may not be better; I just think it is impossible to justify claiming that Flash was stronger in January then JD was.
How do people say this? Seriously, look at both of their months of January, I'll help out.
Flash: 3-1 over Calm, FBH, Stork, 2-0 Best, 3-1 Kwanro, 3-1 Movie, Hero, Calm again, then Jaedong.
He had a series loss against JD and an individual loss to Really.
JD: Tester, 2-0 Stats, Kal, then 3-0 Kal, 3-1 Flash, and HoeJJa.
He had a loss to Crazy-Hydra and Flash.
Look at the names and games played for Flash. He earned and deserved #1. If Jaedong had more games and a better chance to dethrone Flash then his series win could be weighed more heaviliy. But he didn't, and his month outside of Flash wasn't so impressive as to make Flash's own monthly accomplishments look bad.... at all.
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
Wrong! The OSL RO8 may happened in December, but: 1) It's just a couple of days back, you can't simply ingore it like that. Are you saying win on 31. December should be forgotten while win on 1. January should be put into consideration? I hope not... 2) It influenced many many things which are relevant in this PR. Like Jaedong having much more easier schedule than Flash (and therefore more time to study Flash games and prepare for MSL finals).
Just to show you the ridiculousness of this argument, imagine this hypotethical situation: Flash beat JD in December in BOTH OSL and MSL kicking him out. Then, at the end of the January, Flash has in one week MSL and OSL finals and ace game against Jaedong. He win both leagues but lose to JD in the ace game. Are you going to say Jaedong>Flash based on that ace game, because the OSL and MSL games are "things of the past"? Really?
And dogabutila, sorry, but your reasoning is simply awful.
In a monthly power ranking, how else would you give determine who played better that...month? Look at games in previous months? or that simply that month? What you are looking for, as a general strength indicator of that player is elo. In that, Flash is ranked higher then JD and there is no argument there. He has done better and elo confirms that.
However, in a monthly power ranking, in the month judged. JD has the advantage in heads up, and has a better record against better opponents. How is that awful reasoning?
You are probably new to this site - the power ranking was never just monthly thing (Savior was for example ranked higher than Bisu even after Bisu destroyed him 3:0 in the infamous MSL finals). And for good reasons, one month just isn't enough to tell who is the better player. The difference between Elo and PR lies elsewhere. The Elo is just cold merciless results based math, whereas PR is made by people, who analyzed the games themselves and put them in a bigger picture.
And vampyr, aren't you by any means a relative to azureye? It would explained a lot.
It's bothersome that some people are dogging on Really and Kwanro. Second best terran and third best zerg still get no respect?
Not sure about Flash over JD, either. On the one hand, Flash had a more impressive month overall. And yet on the other...
On February 01 2010 03:49 Waxangel wrote: The #2 player on your rank BEAT the #1 player on the list in the most important situation. JD should be ranked first.
But it doesn't matter either way.
Uh... don't really care about the rest... It's been a crazy month.
the "flash was in both leagues finales , it was harder for him .. ect" escuse is pathetic . this is sport , this is competition . jaedong lost to calm in MSL semis last season because he was in both leagues semifinals , this is part of competition , jaedong said it himself , he was playing too many games a week during this time , he just cant win all , too many pression and training . THIS IS COMPETITION . i could argue jaedong has more pression than flash because of everyone was seeing easy flash as the favorite . this is wrong escuses . this is part of competition .
federer won australia open this morning , not only because he is the best , but also because he was REALLY better in mental strenght , patience and psychology . this is important part of competition . jaedong WAS the best on this final , even flash said it .
game 4 MSL was not a mistake from jaedong . jaedong is a player who have various builds and strategy , he loves experimenting and taking high risks . sometimes it pays , sometimes not . flash played really really great this game , there should not be any discussion about this game . flash just outplayed the poor jaedong .
about their proleague match , the consume escuse ( that im agree with ) doesnt change the fact that flash won this game , he won the competition this day . jaedong played better all the game , there is no discussion about this , but he lost the competition . and it must matter on the PR . flash deserve his 1# spot . i just cant disagree .
On February 01 2010 12:41 TwoToneTerran wrote: Jaedong got 1st in that PR, despite losing in MSL to Calm.
In a series that most would consider Calm just outplaying Jaedong, but it also had a lot to do with schedule.
I mean if you want to cite that rough patch in Jaedong's career, sure, but it's not helping your argument.
as the hardest jaedong fan , i can tell you calm really really impressed me that day . he really did smart play , micro play , great play . i loved this series , and there was no escuse about jaedong losing .
Yes! Power Outage #3. Anyways, I'm really liking FBH's recent play. It's really nice to see Khan doing well for a change cause Stork and FBH are playing like complete ballers these days. FBH dancing again, now that's a great sight to see.
On February 01 2010 12:41 TwoToneTerran wrote: Jaedong got 1st in that PR, despite losing in MSL to Calm.
In a series that most would consider Calm just outplaying Jaedong, but it also had a lot to do with schedule.
I mean if you want to cite that rough patch in Jaedong's career, sure, but it's not helping your argument.
as the hardest jaedong fan , i can tell you calm really really impressed me that day . he really did smart play , micro play , great play . i loved this series , and there was no escuse about jaedong losing .
Ugh, I can't believe I'm replying here, since I don't think you have said a single intelligent thing in this entire discussion but here it goes: Calm never outplayed Jaedong. Calm doesn't have better ZvZ than Jaedong (although he has improved to be probably the #2 ZvZ player by now). On most days I would expect Jaedong to 3-0 or 3-1 Calm in a Bo5. Sometimes there are circumstances outside the game that let the inferior player win and ignoring them is pure and utter stupidity. After the game Jaedong stated specifically that he did not, I repeat DID NOT, practice for the MSL because he was focused on ProLeague and OSL (for the golden mouse). Not only did he not practice but he was also utterly exhausted that day from the practice for the other games. He even said afterwards that he would have been disappointed to win that series. Meanwhile Calm had ample time to practice with no other games that week at all (in fact if I remember correctly he had about 2 weeks to prepare). It is hardly surprising how that series turned out, in fact it speaks volumes about his skill that Jaedong managed to even win a game in that series.
calm's zvz has actually been a lot stronger than jaedong's recently. hes actually one win from tying jd's best zvz streak that happened when jaedong was untouchable in that matchup.
not saying that flash should be nr2 under jaedong though. jaedong losing to stupid tvz shit still counts as being outplayed, and even h2h in recent games flash comes out ahead.
On February 01 2010 12:11 J1.au wrote: I think Flash has the most anti-fans on this site. No other player gets so much hate.
He was in two finals, and people still think he shouldn't be ranked #1. I don't understand it.
He also tends to have the most fanboys as well so it only makes sense.
No he doesn't. Not even remotely close to the amount of people who like Stork or Jaedong these days.
Really the most consistently hated progamers for really stupid reasons would probably be Bisu and Flash and no one really hates Bisu anymore because all the die hard Savior fanboys such as ForSC2 have pretty much disappeared and he's not playing at his peak level.
WTF is firebathero doing higher than #10 or CBNC??? He did a good job in his two winners league days, but before than he was something of a running joke of horribleness, and for good reason.
On February 01 2010 11:34 dogabutila wrote: Elo accounts for more then the last month. Thus, not really applicable to justify a power ranking in a month. JD is 3:2 vs Flash, and has beaten harder opponents more convincingly.
I'm not arguing about who may or may not be better; I just think it is impossible to justify claiming that Flash was stronger in January then JD was.
How do people say this? Seriously, look at both of their months of January, I'll help out.
Flash: 3-1 over Calm, FBH, Stork, 2-0 Best, 3-1 Kwanro, 3-1 Movie, Hero, Calm again, then Jaedong.
He had a series loss against JD and an individual loss to Really.
JD: Tester, 2-0 Stats, Kal, then 3-0 Kal, 3-1 Flash, and HoeJJa.
He had a loss to Crazy-Hydra and Flash.
Look at the names and games played for Flash. He earned and deserved #1. If Jaedong had more games and a better chance to dethrone Flash then his series win could be weighed more heaviliy. But he didn't, and his month outside of Flash wasn't so impressive as to make Flash's own monthly accomplishments look bad.... at all.
JD has dropped 2 games to a top 10 ranked player and has only had 3 losses overall out of 14 games. 78% winrate overall while playing vs top 10 65% of the time. 7-2 vs top 10 opponents - 76% winrate
Flash dropped 7 games out of 24. 70% winrate overall playing vs top 10 45% of the time, 6-5 vs top 10 - 54% winrate.
Tell me again which looks better? It's telling that Flash is 3-2 vs jaedong and 0-1 vs really who are the toughest competitors and his wins vs top 10 players are players who are lower ranking and still drops single games against them. Its clear that Flash just isn't doing as well as he was in his run up to the OSL and MSL finals.
on the flip side, JD is 3-2 vs Flash and 4-0 vs Kal who is a pretty damn good player. One that people seem to keep underrating....
On February 01 2010 11:10 StylishVODs wrote: How can you say Jaedong deserves a spot over flash? Going 3-4 vs flash in recent games Jaedong didn't repeatidly break 2400 elo (highest EVER) and get to BOTH finals.
Jesus what does flash have to do to get top rank without haters...
This isn't December Power Rank. He's 2-3 against Jaedong. The OSL RO8 is a thing of the past, and was used to justify last month's power rank. It shouldn't be used to justify this month's.
Wrong! The OSL RO8 may happened in December, but: 1) It's just a couple of days back, you can't simply ingore it like that. Are you saying win on 31. December should be forgotten while win on 1. January should be put into consideration? I hope not... 2) It influenced many many things which are relevant in this PR. Like Jaedong having much more easier schedule than Flash (and therefore more time to study Flash games and prepare for MSL finals).
Just to show you the ridiculousness of this argument, imagine this hypotethical situation: Flash beat JD in December in BOTH OSL and MSL kicking him out. Then, at the end of the January, Flash has in one week MSL and OSL finals and ace game against Jaedong. He win both leagues but lose to JD in the ace game. Are you going to say Jaedong>Flash based on that ace game, because the OSL and MSL games are "things of the past"? Really?
And dogabutila, sorry, but your reasoning is simply awful.
In a monthly power ranking, how else would you give determine who played better that...month? Look at games in previous months? or that simply that month? What you are looking for, as a general strength indicator of that player is elo. In that, Flash is ranked higher then JD and there is no argument there. He has done better and elo confirms that.
However, in a monthly power ranking, in the month judged. JD has the advantage in heads up, and has a better record against better opponents. How is that awful reasoning?
You are probably new to this site - the power ranking was never just monthly thing (Savior was for example ranked higher than Bisu even after Bisu destroyed him 3:0 in the infamous MSL finals). And for good reasons, one month just isn't enough to tell who is the better player. The difference between Elo and PR lies elsewhere. The Elo is just cold merciless results based math, whereas PR is made by people, who analyzed the games themselves and put them in a bigger picture.
Yet, in the OP poor performance in this single month is enough to drop say, shine out of the rankings completely, and a few shaky performances are enough to keep fantasy just outside the rankings as well. Then Movies OSL placement can't give him points but somehow it should count for Flash... I just don't understand why Flash gets so much benefit of the doubt simply because he preformed well last month, when other players have done well last month and struggled as Flash has this month and drop ranks or are even excluded.
i cant believe how much blind jd fanboys are, flash did get more impressive month than jaedong, he totally deserve #1 PR or we, he won the OSL , second place on MSL and only lost to really and to jaedong and thats it, counting he played more games than jaedong its a fact. jd fanboys are so inmature that when they saw a player beat another player start thinking: "omg sdsaidf > d9sidf and thats it" things are not absolute, you win a game or a match so what does that make better player than the other at certain moment? no, is your consistency against all the players and performance and of course your carreer as a progamer. and flash trully revolutionize many parts of terran current BO like tvp, and tvz atm, all these flash bashin is envy and senseless hating, and you are so inmature in not recognize it. there are others players than JD u know and these makes me hate the guy to all these hype ( jae this jae that blablabla , he is the best progamer currently but seriously leave the dude alone you are obsessed) even thou i was a JD fan for a certain time and admire his zvz. to end the discussion Nada&boxer > (insert all favorites progamers).
Put it this way. Taking out power outage and looking at vs top 5. JD = 7-2; Flash = 2-4. And Flash is doing better?
Look at it from a non-biased way. If Flash is really rolling people so hard left and right then isn't JD's MSL win that much more impressive? How many people gave JD a shot at winning the series? All the progamers picked Flash and all the commentators picked Flash (lolol kim carrier). How many people here had Flash winning 3-0 or 3-1? Yet JD goes and 3-1's Flash and even had a significant advantage in the game he ended up losing.
Flash revolutionary tvz being either 1 rax CC or 7/8 rax bunker rush? Meanwhile JD has not played a really standard opening in the last month. He toyed with pool first builds again where everybody is going 12hat, and had the balls to go 3hat pool twice in a row vs Flash. The same Flash who bunker rushes atleast once in a series.
despite that, I don't think HiyA should be so high really. Uhhh, FBH has been doing good, but I don't think he should be #8 exactly either. Leta is good, although I could see him a notch lower. Same with kwanro. Agree with flash and JD. Agree with really. I don't think stork should get -7 at all, but with some of the other players having done so well in the current top 10 I can't really blame you for having to put him beneath some of them.
What horrendous trolls there are lately, I swear this is all I read.
Flash's wins are so unfair all he does is cheese or turtle, he is a cheese turtle. All of Flash's losses are because he is so bad. If Flash were so good he would have won both leagues but he didn't so he is bad, even if he had won it would have been unfair and not count.
Im confused but when you have the #2 rank player beat the #1 ranked player in a bo5 final then its probably a sign to switch the 2 players in the rankings. Flash if my favourite player but JD deserves to be #1 for now.
On February 01 2010 01:05 vnlegend wrote: Terrible rankings. A power outage did not beat Flash, Jaedong did. Way to dismiss an MSL champion's accomplishments.
How am I supposed to believe that Kwanro is actually better than Stork??
On February 01 2010 15:18 Grobyc wrote: LOL power outage.
despite that, I don't think HiyA should be so high really. Uhhh, FBH has been doing good, but I don't think he should be #8 exactly either. Leta is good, although I could see him a notch lower. Same with kwanro. Agree with flash and JD. Agree with really. I don't think stork should get -7 at all, but with some of the other players having done so well in the current top 10 I can't really blame you for having to put him beneath some of them.
I completely agree with this. And no love for free? I thought he did pretty well this January~
On February 01 2010 16:02 ArsenalGunners wrote: Im confused but when you have the #2 rank player beat the #1 ranked player in a bo5 final then its probably a sign to switch the 2 players in the rankings. Flash if my favourite player but JD deserves to be #1 for now.
Somehow I doubt that Flash is your favourite player. You obviously haven't watched or followed any of his games during January.
On February 01 2010 14:54 dogabutila wrote: Put it this way. Taking out power outage and looking at vs top 5. JD = 7-2; Flash = 2-4. And Flash is doing better?
Look at it from a non-biased way. If Flash is really rolling people so hard left and right then isn't JD's MSL win that much more impressive? How many people gave JD a shot at winning the series? All the progamers picked Flash and all the commentators picked Flash (lolol kim carrier). How many people here had Flash winning 3-0 or 3-1? Yet JD goes and 3-1's Flash and even had a significant advantage in the game he ended up losing.
Flash revolutionary tvz being either 1 rax CC or 7/8 rax bunker rush? Meanwhile JD has not played a really standard opening in the last month. He toyed with pool first builds again where everybody is going 12hat, and had the balls to go 3hat pool twice in a row vs Flash. The same Flash who bunker rushes atleast once in a series.
I said JD would 3-0 or 3-1 easily.
Well, you can say Flash is better, it doesn't change the fact that JD might drop a random PL game here and there, maybe lose a Bo3 every now and then, but when it comes to Bo5 Jaedong is still the CLEAR favorite against every single player in the world. Yep, clear favorite even over Flash, in a Bo5. And in my opinion, Bo5 ability truly defines a progamer. Stare at the ELO losses from random PL matches all you want, JD is still not going to lose a Bo5 anytime soon.
On February 01 2010 16:02 ArsenalGunners wrote: Im confused but when you have the #2 rank player beat the #1 ranked player in a bo5 final then its probably a sign to switch the 2 players in the rankings. Flash if my favourite player but JD deserves to be #1 for now.
Somehow I doubt that Flash is your favourite player. You obviously haven't watched or followed any of his games during January.
Oh, you compare them. Did you forget JD vs Kal, for instance? Gues Flash was a better noob-basher this month, but what does that really matter? Nothing.
On February 01 2010 14:42 champignones wrote: i cant believe how much blind jd fanboys are, flash did get more impressive month than jaedong, he totally deserve #1 PR or we, he won the OSL , second place on MSL and only lost to really and to jaedong and thats it, counting he played more games than jaedong its a fact. jd fanboys are so inmature that when they saw a player beat another player start thinking: "omg sdsaidf > d9sidf and thats it" things are not absolute, you win a game or a match so what does that make better player than the other at certain moment? no, is your consistency against all the players and performance and of course your carreer as a progamer. and flash trully revolutionize many parts of terran current BO like tvp, and tvz atm, all these flash bashin is envy and senseless hating, and you are so inmature in not recognize it. there are others players than JD u know and these makes me hate the guy to all these hype ( jae this jae that blablabla , he is the best progamer currently but seriously leave the dude alone you are obsessed) even thou i was a JD fan for a certain time and admire his zvz. to end the discussion Nada&boxer > (insert all favorites progamers).
R u for rela?
First of all, boxer and Nada would get humiliated by Jaedong.
Second, last month Flash was 17-7, dropping games to Movie, Calm, Really and Jaedong. People can keep saying that Flash won the OSL all they want. Of course they are right, but it was against Movie, and the series that made Flash win the OSL(vs JD) Flash played in december.
Still, he actually managed to drop a game to Movie whereas Jaedong beat a much better Protoss 3-0. In addition to that, Jaedong actually beat Flash in the MSL finals. Yes, you can keep talking about the random PL game JD lost(which he lost only because he got his consume too late, but we can even ignore the fact..), the fact is that Jaedong still annihialated Flash when it mattered.
In addition to those 2 games he lost to Flash, he lost to Crazy-Hydra. I guess that's a pretty bad loss, but I guess I'd argue that it still is ZvZ. Even with that, Jaedong was 11-3, having a far superior win percentage last month than Flash, in addition to beating him in a Bo5.
Even if you might have valid arguments for having Flash be at #1, it definitely isn't "crazy" or anything to say that Jaedong should have been #1. At all. In fact, I believe every single one of your arguments are terrible. Obsessed with Jaedong? Hell yes! So what?
Well, you can say Jaeding is better, it doesn't change the fact that Flash might drop a Bo5 every now and then, but when it comes to PL and Bo3's Flash is still the CLEAR favorite against every single player in the world. Yep, clear favorite even over Jaedong, in a Bo3/1. And in my opinion, Bo3/1 ability truly defines a progamer (because 95% of your matches will be Bo3/1!).
Kind of an elaborate troll but you get my point. You can't declare one type of gameplay the only important kind, especially when it's the kind of gameplay you play the LEAST of.
It's more impressive when it happens, but it's so subjective and it's kind of disingenuous towards their aggregate games and the fact that the only reason the OSL didn't affect Jaedong this month is because Jaedong got kicked out of the OSL by Flash. MSL isn't all important, at best it's as important as the OSL and PL, where Flash is better. =\
I know it's easy to write off what I say off as bias, but there's more to the PR than who beat who -- context is very important.
On February 01 2010 17:12 TwoToneTerran wrote: Well, you can say Jaeding is better, it doesn't change the fact that Flash might drop a Bo5 every now and then, but when it comes to PL and Bo3's Flash is still the CLEAR favorite against every single player in the world. Yep, clear favorite even over Jaedong, in a Bo3/1. And in my opinion, Bo3/1 ability truly defines a progamer (because 95% of your matches will be Bo3/1!).
Kind of an elaborate troll but you get my point. You can't declare one type of gameplay the only important kind, especially when it's the kind of gameplay you play the LEAST of.
It's more impressive when it happens, but it's so subjective and it's kind of disingenuous towards their aggregate games and the fact that the only reason the OSL didn't affect Jaedong this month is because Jaedong got kicked out of the OSL by Flash. MSL isn't all important, at best it's as important as the OSL and PL, where Flash is better. =\
I know it's easy to write off what I say off as bias, but there's more to the PR than who beat who -- context is very important.
Well, the decisive games of the individual leagues are Bo5. Also, it is pretty well-known that having more games in a series reduces the amount of luck and variability and allows the best player to win. If you disagree, you don't know much and are merely twisting facts for your own purposes.
I believe Jaedong is a favorite vs every single progamer in a Bo3 as well, just not guaranteed to win like he is in a Bo5. Bo1's I don't really know how much they matter in the end.
It's not about who beat who, JD just actually played better.
EDIT: Let's say you have a solid, tight-aggressive poker player and a super-aggressive poker player. The tight-aggressive player might win against every single weak table and solidly gain profit whereas the super-aggressive player might at times lose even large amounts of money to weaker players. Even so, the super-aggressive player would yearly make significantly more money. Would you say that the tight-aggressive player is the better player?
Right, but the decisive game of the series had a goddamn power outage. Jaedong only won 2 games.
edit: and frankly Flash was playing just fine in that series, and you'd be dumb to think otherwise. Game 2 was amazing and game 3 was great from both until the power outage. Game 1 and 4 were one sided, but that seemed a bit build order impaired, just like Flash's win on HBR in the OSL.
On February 01 2010 12:54 TwoToneTerran wrote: Right, but my point was, you can lose to people below you on the PR and...still be above them on the PR. Even in Bo5s.
When Jaedong lost to Calm, he was also in the same month playing in the OSL and Proleague finals. He won the golden mouse in that month, and there was no way Calm was going to be placed over Jaedong. In fact, Calm wasn't even 2nd - fantasy was (for his PL Finals heroics). That was a much, much harder month to make a decision in. This one seems tame by comparison.
As for bo3 vs bo5, it should be beyond obvious which is a better indicator of skill. They don't play bo5 in the semis and finals just so the fans get to see more games, you know. The fact you're even attempting to argue otherwise is telling of your bias. I mean, you're making even the #1 Jaedong anti-fan himself - Plexa - look reasonable here.
On February 01 2010 17:27 TwoToneTerran wrote: Right, but the decisive game of the series had a goddamn power outage. Jaedong only won 2 games.
edit: and frankly Flash was playing just fine in that series, and you'd be dumb to think otherwise. Game 2 was amazing and game 3 was great from both until the power outage. Game 1 and 4 were one sided, but that seemed a bit build order impaired, just like Flash's win on HBR in the OSL.
He was the better player in every game, and would have won G2 too if he had left 2 guardians home. Doesn't matter, since I watched the games. Also, I trust my B rank friend Solum on JD having absolutely no chance of losing G3, he tends to know his stuff.
Yeah, but of course Flash wasn't in the OSL finals or in PL at all in the same month Jaedong beat him. And he definitely didn't win the OSL AND PL considering Jaedong only won OSL while losing PL and MSL.
See where the distinction here is?
PL Finals is of course more important than regular PL, but Flash still won his games.
On February 01 2010 17:27 TwoToneTerran wrote: Right, but the decisive game of the series had a goddamn power outage. Jaedong only won 2 games.
edit: and frankly Flash was playing just fine in that series, and you'd be dumb to think otherwise. Game 2 was amazing and game 3 was great from both until the power outage. Game 1 and 4 were one sided, but that seemed a bit build order impaired, just like Flash's win on HBR in the OSL.
He was the better player in every game, and would have won G2 too if he had left 2 guardians home. Doesn't matter, since I watched the games. Also, I trust my B rank friend Solum on JD having absolutely no chance of losing G3, he tends to know his stuff.
rofl, your B ranked friend, okay.
And "Jaedong would've won Game 2 if--" means nothing. He didn't win game 2, just like Flash didn't win game 1 or 4. No one won game 3 and your B rank friend is not a high level analyst. And frankly that comment is anecdotal garbage. A lot more people who are a lot smarter have commented on whether or not Flash was still in that game and I'd be quicker to agree with Kwark or Idra (Who disagree) then a faceless, pointless friend of yours.
On February 01 2010 17:30 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah, but of course Flash wasn't in the OSL finals or in PL at all in the same month Jaedong beat him. And he definitely didn't win the OSL AND PL considering Jaedong only won OSL while losing PL and MSL.
See where the distinction here is?
PL Finals is of course more important than regular PL, but Flash still won his games.
On February 01 2010 17:27 TwoToneTerran wrote: Right, but the decisive game of the series had a goddamn power outage. Jaedong only won 2 games.
edit: and frankly Flash was playing just fine in that series, and you'd be dumb to think otherwise. Game 2 was amazing and game 3 was great from both until the power outage. Game 1 and 4 were one sided, but that seemed a bit build order impaired, just like Flash's win on HBR in the OSL.
He was the better player in every game, and would have won G2 too if he had left 2 guardians home. Doesn't matter, since I watched the games. Also, I trust my B rank friend Solum on JD having absolutely no chance of losing G3, he tends to know his stuff.
rofl, your B ranked friend, okay.
And "Jaedong would've won Game 2 if--" means nothing. He didn't win game 2, just like Flash didn't win game 1 or 4. No one won game 3 and your B rank friend is not a high level analyst. And frankly that comment is anecdotal garbage. A lot more people who are a lot smarter have commented on whether or not Flash was still in that game and I'd be quicker to agree with Kwark or Idra (Who disagree) then a faceless, pointless friend of yours.
Right, so he's better than Idra, Kwark, Flash himself, Jaedong, Kespa Refs (Again, they agree, but that isn't my point), and frankly anyone who's actually a name in the field?
It's not that he'd be wrong for saying "jaedong won that game," but you don't give any good reasons and there's TONS of people way more educated on the game than your friend who have posted actual reasons. Saying "I think Jaedong won game 3 because this guy I know said so," isn't a point, it's an anecdote.
It's fair for anyone to have differing opinions on that game, and that's the context of why it wasn't a clean Bo5 win. If you think Flash was still in the game, then it's a 2-1 win and a disappointing series, which frankly doesn't help Jaedong's case when he loses in WL later in the month.
This doesn't have to be your opinion -- that's fine! I'm okay with people thinking Jaedong was the clear winner in that third game, but you've got to be understanding of people who don't think so. In their minds -- some of which aren't actually insane Flash fans like myself -- that puts Jaedong at 2-1 before WL, and therefore 2-2 after WL. Making them even for the month, but giving Jaedong more "important" wins over Flash. But, then you have to consider that Flash also 2-0'd STX, won an OSL, and frankly dominated anyone not Jaedong all season (And did some of that to boot). It's not an automatically right opinion, but it's a fair one and it's the one Plexa seems to have.
There shouldn't be any real outrage here -- disagreeableness, sure, there should always be disagreeableness, but this isn't some travesty of logic where everyone forgoes context and says "But the #2 beat the #1 in a Bo5, absolutely pristinely, surely their spots MUST swap!"
That's always what's bugged me about PR complaints, people always seem to just consider pure record and accomplishment as opposed to context of the record and accomplishment.
Can't you say that Flash deserves #1 just because he won the OSL and got silver in the MSL even though it looks like JD would beat him right now. I don't think anyone here would pick Kwanro or FBH (lol...) as a favourite vs any other player in the power rank... But atleast Kwanro deserves the spot based on results.
So, how many JD fans wanted to see Clam be above JD just because he stomped him in MSL in a Bo5? No one, because JD was making fucking history by getting the Golden Mouse. Similarly Flash was making history by reaching 2 simultaneous finals while setting a fantastic ELO record and being the clear #1 in PL (with a quite rough schedule, he played a lot more games in January than JD did).
Stop being so fucking greedy, your guy has been #1 on the PR soooo much. Let someone else shine for a second, why dontcha?
Movie has played very poorly in January, he's just not creative against protoss. CJ is playing Samsung Khan next, I hope Movie proves me wrong and shows that he is a three-dimensional player if he can somehow beat Jangbi or Stork.
On January 31 2010 20:15 samachking wrote: You forgot the point that the maps are imbalanced when discussing an impromptu Bo5. This map pool was just as bad as Shinhan 3. The other point is that Bo5s are never impromptu so its irrelevant, Fantasy was a strong series player because of his preparation, that was the part that mattered and JD had way better prep during that finals considering both of them had the same preparation time with JD having a one day advantage. Btw the 3hat before pool on match point was only reactionary, a 9drone scout was sent before hand both by Killer + JD.
Also Plexa might you enlighten me on how and in what way are JD and Flash revolutionizing TvZ? I am just asking this question, the builds JD used in the finals are in no way viable in a standard situation and Flash has simply been playing textbook TvZ to perfection the past season with only better placement + better hard counters to guards and better MnM micro vs Mutas, with perfect macro with minimal unit loss. I dont see any revolution, simply godlike play here.
Overall its a fine power rank, and you did very well with it and all the positions are agreeable and the PO was a nice touch. It's really hard to do the bottom spots when there simply isnt much going on.
your very much wrong about that flash prepared for a tvp and if we look at when his osl win was compared to hte msl only a 4 day difference 19 23? you either didnt research or something meaning jd had way more time to prepare lets consider when your in the mind set of tvp and you planned builds for that and then had to reset your game plan asap and start a tvz gamepaly paln against jaedong who msot likely jsut brushed aside kal like nothing and thought he could meaning he put in a few more days of practice verses flash which is huge in a progamer world
On February 01 2010 17:37 TwoToneTerran wrote: Right, so he's better than Idra, Kwark, Flash himself, Jaedong, Kespa Refs (Again, they agree, but that isn't my point), and frankly anyone who's actually a name in the field?
It's not that he'd be wrong for saying "jaedong won that game," but you don't give any good reasons and there's TONS of people way more educated on the game than your friend who have posted actual reasons. Saying "I think Jaedong won game 3 because this guy I know said so," isn't a point, it's an anecdote.
It's fair for anyone to have differing opinions on that game, and that's the context of why it wasn't a clean Bo5 win. If you think Flash was still in the game, then it's a 2-1 win and a disappointing series, which frankly doesn't help Jaedong's case when he loses in WL later in the month.
This doesn't have to be your opinion -- that's fine! I'm okay with people thinking Jaedong was the clear winner in that third game, but you've got to be understanding of people who don't think so. In their minds -- some of which aren't actually insane Flash fans like myself -- that puts Jaedong at 2-1 before WL, and therefore 2-2 after WL. Making them even for the month, but giving Jaedong more "important" wins over Flash. But, then you have to consider that Flash also 2-0'd STX, won an OSL, and frankly dominated anyone not Jaedong all season (And did some of that to boot). It's not an automatically right opinion, but it's a fair one and it's the one Plexa seems to have.
There shouldn't be any real outrage here -- disagreeableness, sure, there should always be disagreeableness, but this isn't some travesty of logic where everyone forgoes context and says "But the #2 beat the #1 in a Bo5, absolutely pristinely, surely their spots MUST swap!"
That's always what's bugged me about PR complaints, people always seem to just consider pure record and accomplishment as opposed to context of the record and accomplishment.
Dude I haven't spent half an hour discussing the possible situations or what would be likely to happen in what cases or what Flash would do etc with any of the people you mentioned, but it appeared like he was confident even he could beat Flash in that situation. He also is way better than you, at least that I can be quite certain of.
Kwark agreed that JD had a great advantage, what's your source? So did Idra, he just didn't agree with the decision to give the win instead of a rematch. Flash's opinion isn't really too useful, of course he'd think that he's ahead. Where did JD say that Flash was in a good position? I missed this completely.
You should also consider that the maps they played on were heavily Terran-favored. In fact, just about every single map is T-favored right now, at least in TvZ. The fact that Jaedong can do so well on these maps is quite impressive. But yeah sure, let's pretend that every SINGLE map in the MSL finals, for instance, was not heavily Terran favored vs Zerg. The fact that Flash map-imbas his way to victory vs 17 out of 24 people isn't all that impressive to me, to be honest.
No one considers maps anymore? O.o
I don't understand what you're talking about with the chances of JD in game 3, but 5 potential bases vs 1 min only in the middle of the map with swarm on the way seems quite clear. As my friend said, whenever JD decides to attack, Flash's only mining base is forced to lift and it's gg right there. If you're going to use this as your argument, please show me where the people say that JD didn't have a clear advantage, since I have seen at least both Kwark and Idra say the opposite.
On February 01 2010 21:48 StylishVODs wrote: I don't think the mappool is as imbalanced as some people may think. Fighting favours Zerg. Matchpoint is pretty balanced. Oddeye favours terran.
Ultimatum, i don't know that much about and there has been few games on it. Without flash and jaedong the map is 3-3 TvZ.
Luckily I asked my friend to analyse the maps while we were watching the finals together ^_^
Rough translation from finnish: "Ultimatum: Looks horrible for Zerg. The bases are extremely difficult to muta harrass, easy min only that T can take relatively easily, and island expansions nearly always favor Terran in TvZ, as well as difficult-to-defend additional gases"
And I'll always believe him until proven wrong ^_^ Also, "The 2. game was 100% Jaedong's if he split his guardians in half and left the other half to defend his base". BTW, this isn't comparable to saying "Flash would have won game 1 if blabla" because... Jaedong was light years ahead, and if he had done that, he'd have been in an unloseable position. It's not like Flash ever was waaay ahead in game 1 and just threw it with one decision. Still, JD played way better the early parts of the game on an imba map like that, which is really impressive.
Also, I love your VODs, but your match point should be "favors Terran", it's not balanced at all. And your "favors Zerg" map has these stats: "TvZ: 21-18 (53.8%)" Get real.
I'm going to hold that Fighting Spirit is almost perfectly balanced until there's reason to think otherwise. (I suspect that's why Flash thumbed it down and cheesed on it; it's the balanced map of the pool.)
Well I don't want to get into discussing the games played, but I'd like to put it out there that Fighting spirit actually favours zerg and matchpoint is not imbalanced at all. It favours zerg in the early game and terran in the lategame.
Fighting spirit is a big map with lots of gasexpansions that are easily defendable. Muta harass is effective and terran will have a hard time taking a forth base while stopping zerg from taking 5 bases.
If terran gets 4 bases its hard to defend main, 3rd and 4th at the same time due to zerg easily taking 5 gas ultraling and drops from opposit sides of the map.
You can say it's balanced I guess, but saying it's Z-favored is just ridiculously biased. I guess it favors Terran the least, so it must be balanced. Boo-hoo Flash is better than JD because he's only 2-3 vs him on ridiculously T-favored maps, man that's an accomplishment.
EDIT: Yeah I won't put any reasons out either but I'll say that all the maps favor Terran.
Im not arguing that flash is better than jaedong or vice versa, they're both equal. Flash accomplishements is better than Jaedongs was last month thats why he's first.
I'm not biased it's the truth. Fighting spirit is good for zerg vs terran.
Like a few other reasonable people have said, Flash over Jaedong is simply not even a question.
Skill-wise, they are equal or nearly so, and I don't believe that either one of them is a clear favorite against the other. It's like watching a great dance of ballet -- these two players watch the other, adapt to him, and drive each other to heights they would not be able to reach were it not for the other player. That's why they're such a joy to watch.
At the end of this month, Flash won gold and silver, and Jaedong won gold and nothing. There is no justification not to give Flash the number 1 spot when he has gotten much better results with his 2 medals, and it cannot be proven that Jaedong is significantly better than him (no more than it is provable that Flash is better, either).
(And as someone has already pointed out, there have been lots of times in the history of the PR when the top-rated player who lost a final nonetheless still retained number 1 the following month. I don't remember anyone complaining when Savior kept being 1 after Bisu 3-0'd him in that legendary MSL...).
Edit: Don't cry, Jaedong fanboys. If JD is as good as you think he is, he will win the next Starleague, and by then I don't think there will be any reason not to put him first. Just realize that for this month, it would be a huge injustice to Flash, who worked harder, played more games, nearly won 2 Starleagues, and broke an ELO record. But these two will meet again, and soon. Just keep watching, I know I will be.
On February 01 2010 17:04 Shikyo wrote: Well, you can say Flash is better, it doesn't change the fact that JD might drop a random PL game here and there, maybe lose a Bo3 every now and then, but when it comes to Bo5 Jaedong is still the CLEAR favorite against every single player in the world. Yep, clear favorite even over Flash, in a Bo5. And in my opinion, Bo5 ability truly defines a progamer. Stare at the ELO losses from random PL matches all you want, JD is still not going to lose a Bo5 anytime soon.
This point needed to be made. I'm not even against Flash being #1 in the ranking since he appeared in two finals and won one of them, but putting a Bo5 on the same level as a proleague game -- that's what the "3-2 in the month" argument amounts to -- is fairly ridiculous.
Just something that seems to have been overlooked by all you zealous arguers: Jaedong broke an ELO record too.
I'm not saying that the #1 and #2 placements are incorrect, just something else to consider...
And honestly, regardless of play, I felt that the #1 slot belonged to whoever won the WL match. I said that before and I stand by it even though I prefer Jaedong.
Honestly, we would be in a Bonjwa era if it wasn't for the fact that we have two of them. Perhaps a new term for this dual-ownership thing needs to be established?
A lot of people here say that when JD lost to Flash it was because of JDs own mistake, and when he won it was because he played better. Let just analyze some games. In WL if JD was so much better than Flash, how come when Flash came out he had a much bigger army than JD and obliterated him (without the dark swarm). JD did inflict some economic damage during the game, but it was late (Flash already had 6 barracks, factory, starport). With 3hatch muta you need some early damage. That game boils down to the question whether JD would be able to save his 3 rd gas (4 th exp) if he had researched DS in time, which we will never now. Second, MSL game 1. Flash lost because he had not built a single turret in his main in time. You could argue then that JD won because of Flash's mistake there. MSL game 2. JD could have built those guardians in his base and his turtling would have probably worked. He didn't, and lost. MSL game 3. Flash completely outplayed JD in the mid game (destroying two gas expansions). If the power outage happened then, imagine who would be awarded the win. Then he made a mistake and lost a bunch of MnM that he could've easily just let in place of the JDs third expansion. Still he was so close to killing the seven o'clock where JDs defiler popped just in time to cast a single Dark Swarm and defend with a few ultras. Take a look at that situation again, if you don't trust me. Flash was so close to killing that defiler when it popped out of NC. So if Flash hasn't lost that bunch of MnM so easily (at the 3 o'clock) He might be able to take down the 7 o'clock. MSL game 4. Flash had to play after all that crap after the outage. He made several mistakes in that game (especially when he suicided a bunch of MnM on sunkens) and lost. My point is, there is no point in arguing about who made a mistake in what game. They obviously make each other make mistakes. What meters in the end is who won. JD went 3-2 against Flash in January with a really weird MSL finals. In the end, a single game difference is not enough to place JD ahead especially after Flash won OSL, broke ELO record and played well in PL. It just doesn't make any sense.
i agree with flash over jaedong for one reason, he has gold osl and silver msl while dominating. jaedong was dominating too but only one gold and beat flash pretty impresively.
flash has accomplished more this month, but by no means is a better player than jaedong.
jaedong's ability to prepare for matches along with crazy ability to bounce back from devastating loses i believe makes him a better player. his mental fortitude and ability to endure also.
flash is crazy good. his macro is jaw dropping, his quick decision making is awesome. but he was read like a book by jaedong. he still has a bit to go to accomplishing himself as the best damn player in the world. jaedong i believe still holds this title. just not this month.
Reading this thread and seeing Jaedong fans arguing that JD should be #1 this month feels awfuly similar to reading this and seeing Realpenguin arguing that GuemChi is bonjwa.
Only difference is, Realpenguin was joking and his post is hilarous whereas JD fans are serious and their posts are...well, hilarous.
I was going to rage about "Power Outage" being number three but I accept the explanation "Jaedong and Flash are so far ahead of everyone else at the moment that it's sickening.". I've been thinking about this a lot. If one of them were to not exist the other one would be real close to being called a bonjwa.
And I most definitely don't agree with one of them being below Stork in the last Power Rank.
EDIT: Now I read the thread and realized that it's pretty much all about what I posted ^^
Zero just beat Jaedong, he should obviously have been #2 guys!
lets stop with the ridiculous argument between #1 and 2, its been going on for this entire thread +most of the last one. Getting old.
In other news, zero may not deserve #2, but he definitely deserves someplace higher than Firebathero, leta, and Hiya. Zero has had some tough draws (like having to play only eventual finalists in both starleagues, Flash and Movie), but he at least takes games off of people like Flash and JD. Unfortunately in every instance i can remember, he cannot beat Killer, and that is sad.
jaedongs on his 15 win streak in zvp making a new record zvp and in general elo vp still holds best zvz peak (and probably will remain that) and vz as general vs terran flash is miles away but if u compare that u have the zvt of flash to jaedong zvp zvz vs the tvt and zvt of jaedong vs flash tvp and he just took the best terran in a best of 5 when flash will take stork in a best of 5 than we can say he is the best player if u follow this logic (i know it looks like trolling and it started with that intention but since it makes logic and it helps my fav player i'll stick to it )
What's with these bad facts that have been plaguing some of these power ranks and featured threads lately? 3hatch before pool was shown to be a viable build since a long time ago and Zergs used it a lot, particularly on Katrina. The build was never ever thought to be a non-viable build. These little oopsies never really bothered me much but since that thread where there was that "lol what is this Canata stupid build" these things have been really annoying me. That build has been used since freaking Blue Storm by Hwasin, and Hwasin has used that build time to time ever since.
Hmm.. Interesting rank. I honestly think that in an impromptu best of 5 Jaedong would rape Flash like he did in Gom with his amazing mutalisk micro. I honestly feel that Flash put just as much if not more preparation into that MSL.
This thread is so funny. 2 more pages of Flash fanboys arguing for Flash #1 spot and they will say that JD won the MSL cause the maps were slighty Z>T favored and he even cut the power off when in game 3 Flash was so ahead.
Dude, these power rankings suck. I know how to get someone on top. Just get Flash and TossGirl to have a baby, and bam: Number One. Hey, it worked in Chinese basketball and now we've got Yao Ming.
I agree with this. I was trying to point out that these maps are not so imbalanced as people might believe, talking about how jaedong beat flash on terran-favoured maps.
Nothing new, but yet people claim that these maps are the most imbalanced maps against Zergs in ZvT. Hope this will stop some of them from posting that over and over again.
These power rank comments are hilarious lol, I really enjoyed reading.
Nothing better than a good old troll war between people with no clue about the game or esports in general.
Plexa made this rank, this is what he thinks about the current top 10 players, and he states the reasons why he thinks so. Some people take this all way to serious, and go into useless troll wars about something that will always be subjective.
If you want a totaly objective rank, go watch the player elo chart, no emotions, no analyses just pure ruthless math based on win/lose ratio's and we all know nothing is more fair than that.
On February 02 2010 06:20 TwoToneTerran wrote: I'm complaining that people complain about people complaining.
That is hypocrisy, not irony.
well it's more sarcasm but you can go ahead and have a big ol stick up your butt.
Actually there is nothing sarcastic at all about it, unless when you were complaining you weren't actually meaning to complain or criticize.
Sarcasm is a form of irony where the literal meaning and intended meaning are different. ie if I were to say "Good job at replying in a calm manner without any personal attack", that would be sarcastic, as it's not what I actually mean with the sentence. Legitimately complaining about something is not sarcasm, unless by saying "I don't like it when you do X" you really mean "I love it when you do X".
On February 02 2010 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: I was sarcastically pointing it out. It is my thing.
No, you don't like the fanboy back and forth and were thus legitimately complaining about it. If you had said "I love all the fanboy back and forth, it's terrific, please keep it up." that would be sarcasm.
On February 02 2010 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: I was sarcastically pointing it out. It is my thing.
No, you don't like the fanboy back and forth and were thus legitimately complaining about it. If you had said "I love all the fanboy back and forth, it's terrific, please keep it up." that would be sarcasm.
There isn't one way to do sarcasm?
like, pointitively, I noticed the complaining infinite circle and intentionally added to it in a sarcastic manner to show the ridiculousness of it.
urgh. Really don't agree with Stork falling that low for obvious reasons. And I REALLY don't agree with Leta/Kal being placed that high. To me, Leta is consistently overrated simply because his team sends him out a bunch to clean up B-teamers. He folds like a house of cards vs TaekBangLeeSsang.
Jaedong is on a 17 game ZvP winning streak. I love how Plexa didnt mention that at all.
Its about to surpass Flash's TvT superiority since like Flash's TvT I just cant see a protoss beating Jaedong. And it has long surpassed Flash's TvZ dominance.
On February 02 2010 05:00 4Servy wrote: These power rank comments are hilarious lol, I really enjoyed reading.
Nothing better than a good old troll war between people with no clue about the game or esports in general.
Plexa made this rank, this is what he thinks about the current top 10 players, and he states the reasons why he thinks so. Some people take this all way to serious, and go into useless troll wars about something that will always be subjective.
If you want a totaly objective rank, go watch the player elo chart, no emotions, no analyses just pure ruthless math based on win/lose ratio's and we all know nothing is more fair than that.
Why does Plexa get to have all the fun. Shit, I'll make my own power rankings and then there will be a real troll war.
On February 02 2010 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: I was sarcastically pointing it out. It is my thing.
No, you don't like the fanboy back and forth and were thus legitimately complaining about it. If you had said "I love all the fanboy back and forth, it's terrific, please keep it up." that would be sarcasm.
There isn't one way to do sarcasm?
like, pointitively, I noticed the complaining infinite circle and intentionally added to it in a sarcastic manner to show the ridiculousness of it.
But you didn't add to it in a sarcastic manner. You are saying that simply adding to it in a normal manner is sarcasm: I've already shown that your addition, in isolation, is not sarcasm.
Adding to the complaining cycle with regular complaining is also not sarcasm. That would be parody. Your parodied the complaining by adding to it.
Power rank is always a little inconsistent. Sometimes just the performance for the month is considered. Sometimes it's looked at in the longer context. Keeping in mind those inconsistencies, I'm ok with Flash over Jaedong. Although, winning an MSL dropping just 1 game is somewhat unprecedented. GOM doesn't count.
On February 02 2010 05:00 4Servy wrote: These power rank comments are hilarious lol, I really enjoyed reading.
Nothing better than a good old troll war between people with no clue about the game or esports in general.
Plexa made this rank, this is what he thinks about the current top 10 players, and he states the reasons why he thinks so. Some people take this all way to serious, and go into useless troll wars about something that will always be subjective.
If you want a totaly objective rank, go watch the player elo chart, no emotions, no analyses just pure ruthless math based on win/lose ratio's and we all know nothing is more fair than that.
Why does Plexa get to have all the fun. Shit, I'll make my own power rankings and then there will be a real troll war.
;-)
You may have something there. Maybe TL can give us the ability to each make our own ranking with the rankings being weighted towards how long one has been a member of the community. And then have a popular PR to go with Critics choice PR which is what PR currently is. What do you think?
On February 02 2010 10:22 WWJDD wrote: Power rank is always a little inconsistent. Sometimes just the performance for the month is considered. Sometimes it's looked at in the longer context. Keeping in mind those inconsistencies, I'm ok with Flash over Jaedong. Although, winning an MSL dropping just 1 game is somewhat unprecedented. GOM doesn't count.
1) Dropping a single game isn't unprecedented in a final. Many finals have been 3-0, in fact.
2) Flash got 1st place in OSL, 2nd in MSL. Jaedong Got 1st place in MSL, out in quarters of OSL (by Flash). How can Jaedong be considered above Flash? Winning a circus of an MSL isn't anywhere near close enough.
On February 02 2010 10:22 WWJDD wrote: Power rank is always a little inconsistent. Sometimes just the performance for the month is considered. Sometimes it's looked at in the longer context. Keeping in mind those inconsistencies, I'm ok with Flash over Jaedong. Although, winning an MSL dropping just 1 game is somewhat unprecedented. GOM doesn't count.
1) Dropping a single game isn't unprecedented in a final. Many finals have been 3-0, in fact.
2) Flash got 1st place in OSL, 2nd in MSL. Jaedong Got 1st place in MSL, out in quarters of OSL (by Flash). How can Jaedong be considered above Flash? Winning a circus of an MSL isn't anywhere near close enough.
I think he means that JD dropped a single game the whole MSL
also I think flash should be above JD just because he's beat the crap out of more opponents
though maybe he had more opportunities to do so...
On February 02 2010 06:35 TwoToneTerran wrote: I was sarcastically pointing it out. It is my thing.
No, you don't like the fanboy back and forth and were thus legitimately complaining about it. If you had said "I love all the fanboy back and forth, it's terrific, please keep it up." that would be sarcasm.
There isn't one way to do sarcasm?
like, pointitively, I noticed the complaining infinite circle and intentionally added to it in a sarcastic manner to show the ridiculousness of it.
But you didn't add to it in a sarcastic manner. You are saying that simply adding to it in a normal manner is sarcasm: I've already shown that your addition, in isolation, is not sarcasm.
Adding to the complaining cycle with regular complaining is also not sarcasm. That would be parody. Your parodied the complaining by adding to it.
Parodies by nature are sarcastic? Non serious, mocking etc etc. You're dwelling too hard on sematics.
I dunno, I always felt preparation and intelligence are a big part of Starcraft. JD beat Flash in a bo5 starleague finals, the biggest possible test of skills between two players. Doesnt matter if you think he cant repeat a win with the same build cus in fact he didnt win only because of these exact builds, but because of his superior understanding of the metagame which made him come up with the better builds and won the mind game. Next Bo5 theyd meet, hed still have the advantage of better mind games/metagame understanding and would still be able to prepare better builds. Maybe you can argue that flash owns other people harder and more consistently than JD does right now, but if you directly compare Flash and JD its kinda ridiculous not to give JD the edge when he just steamrolled Flash 3-1 in a friggin SL finals...
On February 02 2010 18:44 damenmofa wrote: I dunno, I always felt preparation and intelligence are a big part of Starcraft. JD beat Flash in a bo5 starleague finals, the biggest possible test of skills between two players. Doesnt matter if you think he cant repeat a win with the same build cus in fact he didnt win only because of these exact builds, but because of his superior understanding of the metagame which made him come up with the better builds and won the mind game. Next Bo5 theyd meet, hed still have the advantage of better mind games/metagame understanding and would still be able to prepare better builds. Maybe you can argue that flash owns other people harder and more consistently than JD does right now, but if you directly compare Flash and JD its kinda ridiculous not to give JD the edge when he just steamrolled Flash 3-1 in a friggin SL finals...
But dont forget flash won the "other" final jaedong wasnt even in, because flash knocked him OUT! 2 starleague finals at the same time happens like once in billion times a you want to give edge to JD. Sorry, no.
On February 02 2010 18:44 damenmofa wrote: I dunno, I always felt preparation and intelligence are a big part of Starcraft. JD beat Flash in a bo5 starleague finals, the biggest possible test of skills between two players. Doesnt matter if you think he cant repeat a win with the same build cus in fact he didnt win only because of these exact builds, but because of his superior understanding of the metagame which made him come up with the better builds and won the mind game. Next Bo5 theyd meet, hed still have the advantage of better mind games/metagame understanding and would still be able to prepare better builds. Maybe you can argue that flash owns other people harder and more consistently than JD does right now, but if you directly compare Flash and JD its kinda ridiculous not to give JD the edge when he just steamrolled Flash 3-1 in a friggin SL finals...
It was a butchered finals, and Flash won 2-0 in OSL. Therefore putting them at 3-3, + the recent WinnersLeague game that Flash won, I would say Flash even has the head to head edge. I realize that OSL was in late December, but the thing is that Flash's elimination of Jaedong allowed him to easily go on and win the tournament.
On February 02 2010 07:53 SuperArc wrote: Jaedong is on a 17 game ZvP winning streak. I love how Plexa didnt mention that at all.
Its about to surpass Flash's TvT superiority since like Flash's TvT I just cant see a protoss beating Jaedong. And it has long surpassed Flash's TvZ dominance.
Yes, but ZvP is slightly imbalanced compared to TvT or TvZ.
T>Z just as much as Z>P. It doesn't really matter though, it's still very impressive because no one else is able to abuse this slight imbalance as well as Flash and JD are doing.
I think Flash's TvT dominance is the coolest and really proves how much better than all other Terrans he is because TvT is a mirror MU which means that there is no map imba or anything like that to take into account, it has very little to do with luck and allows epic comebacks which means the better overall player generally wins. It's a little sad that JD has to play ZvZ which has that element of luck in it, or else his winrate would probably be even more insane than it already is.
FBH gets to play so much in Khan that he HAS to win some times... like his 6-2 record recently, he will probably be able to do that again, in a year or something. I mean statistically speaking it's not that strange, he actually wins one third of his games lol.
On February 03 2010 04:38 Elroi wrote: FBH gets to play so much in Khan that he HAS to win some times... like his 6-2 record recently, he will probably be able to do that again, in a year or something. I mean statistically speaking it's not that strange, he actually wins one third of his games lol.
On February 02 2010 10:22 WWJDD wrote: Power rank is always a little inconsistent. Sometimes just the performance for the month is considered. Sometimes it's looked at in the longer context. Keeping in mind those inconsistencies, I'm ok with Flash over Jaedong. Although, winning an MSL dropping just 1 game is somewhat unprecedented. GOM doesn't count.
1) Dropping a single game isn't unprecedented in a final. Many finals have been 3-0, in fact.
2) Flash got 1st place in OSL, 2nd in MSL. Jaedong Got 1st place in MSL, out in quarters of OSL (by Flash). How can Jaedong be considered above Flash? Winning a circus of an MSL isn't anywhere near close enough.
Quarters of the OSL...
First of all, happened in December, not January.
Second, was Bo3 instead of Bo5. Bo5 minimizes variation and is more reflective of the players' relative skill.
Third, more recent performance is more important than past performance. Do you think Jaedong losing to Rock and Jaedong having a 15-or-17-or-whatever game win streak in ZvP have similiar value?
Even though Flash won the OSL, I don't think that either Calm or Movie were the kind of players you'd expect to face that that stage of an OSL. I guess it's still a nice accomplishment by him, even though it was kind of an autowin after he defeated Jaedong. (Also think it'd have been an autowin for JD if he beat Flash even if Calm beat him before, but that could have been interesting)
Jaedong can be considered above Flash because 1. He's totally unstoppable in ZvP and is still the clear favorite in any ZvZ BoX even though he's been dropping quite a few ZvZs as of late. I guess Flash's TvZ is almost comparable to JD's ZvP and Flash's TvT to JD's ZvZ.
Now, the thing is, ZvT is by far Jaedong's weakest match-up, also being a historically imbalanced MU. Flash's TvZ is his stronger non-mirror MU. By far, if I may. Let's imagine for a moment that Jaedong's ZvP skill became his ZvT skill, and Flash's TvP skill and TvZ skill switched places. I don't think it's a stretch to say that Jaedong would crush Flash just about every time. It just so happens that the players' match-up profiencies favor Flash.
And even with that, Jaedong still defeated Flash in a Bo5! On the most imbalanced maps since Arena MSL. All these things considered, even if the score was something like 3-3, hell, even 4-3 in the favor of Flash, I still would consider that a plus for Jaedong on his ability to overcome such map imbalance, in his weakest match-up, in a historically imbalanced match-up. It also helps that Jaedong's vP is far superior to that of Flash.
I'm not saying that Jaedong should be above Flash in the power rank, btw. I am saying that it isn't unreasonable to all to believe so, and listed numerous reasons for why people might believe that. Seems like many people are confused by my intentions with these posts; I'm not saying JD should be above Flash, I am just listing reasons for why people would believe that to be the case and why it's not dumb.
Rofl, Calm totally isn't a player worthy of a semifinal? That's audacious.
Also you're taking points to the extreme. Something that happened late in December is obviously more relevant than something that happened 3 years ago. Just like how in 3 years, these games won't affect the power rank. Usually things out of the month that are still worth remembering are achievements that happened during the same season.
can't believe flash over jaedong You talk about if they played again, sure if they played again on the same biased tvz maps flash would with out a doubt have the upper hand, but its about now. Flash said when he lost that he new jaedong was the superior player QQ
On February 03 2010 10:25 Shikyo wrote: And even with that, Jaedong still defeated Flash in a Bo5! On the most imbalanced maps since Arena MSL. All these things considered, even if the score was something like 3-3, hell, even 4-3 in the favor of Flash, I still would consider that a plus for Jaedong on his ability to overcome such map imbalance, in his weakest match-up, in a historically imbalanced match-up. It also helps that Jaedong's vP is far superior to that of Flash.
I don't understand, I'm a flash fan, but if your logic for monthly games is how you rank people, shouldn't Jaedong beat flash because he played better this month?
On February 03 2010 12:03 jakel wrote: Where did you learn that match point is Z>T and I don't think Jaedong even played a game on that map
First of all don't write 4 posts in a row. You could have included everything is one post.
Second of all, look closer to the post I quote. FYI, Miracle is a progamer, and roMAD just quoted his opinion regarding the maps. Moreover, both Flash and Fantasy stated on numerous occasions that Match Point and Fighting Spirit are good maps for Zergs.
On February 03 2010 10:25 Shikyo wrote: And even with that, Jaedong still defeated Flash in a Bo5! On the most imbalanced maps since Arena MSL. All these things considered, even if the score was something like 3-3, hell, even 4-3 in the favor of Flash, I still would consider that a plus for Jaedong on his ability to overcome such map imbalance, in his weakest match-up, in a historically imbalanced match-up. It also helps that Jaedong's vP is far superior to that of Flash.
While it is certainly possible that this is true, I don't think that quoting a Terran on TvZ map imba is really valid. I'm sorry but I've followed what pros have said about maps and they always skew the imba so that it's against whatever race they play (not surprising). Find me a quote from any Zerg pro that any of the maps favour Zerg and it would have much more meaning.
On February 03 2010 15:31 TwoToneTerran wrote: And so is a power outage that leaves only a 2-1 conclusively.
Well, to me it doesn't matter too much if Flash decides to hold on GGing for 20 seconds longer or not. Doesn't really change anything for me. Also, JD was winning in proleague before he forgot consume(same trend that was in game 2 in finals), so that's actually a pretty amazing thing(stupid mistakes easy to fix are a lot better way to lose games than just being outclassed normally because the mistakes can be polished off with a little bit of time and after that JD will just defeat Flash every game). You can choose to not believe players far better than you if you're blinded by your fanboyness, not my problem really.
Uh, wasn't that like exactly the point he was trying to make?
He spent the entire post pointing out how right it is to think Jaedong should be #1, and how much of a better player Jaedong is, so any middle ground he proposed is a bit of a sham. And did so on top of being a dick about it ("you can choose to not believe players far better than you about it" and the blind fanboy garbage, despite the fact he can't apparently admit Flash, too, happens to be good at Starcraft).
On February 03 2010 10:25 Shikyo wrote: And even with that, Jaedong still defeated Flash in a Bo5! On the most imbalanced maps since Arena MSL. All these things considered, even if the score was something like 3-3, hell, even 4-3 in the favor of Flash, I still would consider that a plus for Jaedong on his ability to overcome such map imbalance, in his weakest match-up, in a historically imbalanced match-up. It also helps that Jaedong's vP is far superior to that of Flash.
While it is certainly possible that this is true, I don't think that quoting a Terran on TvZ map imba is really valid. I'm sorry but I've followed what pros have said about maps and they always skew the imba so that it's against whatever race they play (not surprising). Find me a quote from any Zerg pro that any of the maps favour Zerg and it would have much more meaning.
Well, the same argument applies to Zerg players as well when they say T>Z on a particular map.
On February 03 2010 10:25 Shikyo wrote: And even with that, Jaedong still defeated Flash in a Bo5! On the most imbalanced maps since Arena MSL. All these things considered, even if the score was something like 3-3, hell, even 4-3 in the favor of Flash, I still would consider that a plus for Jaedong on his ability to overcome such map imbalance, in his weakest match-up, in a historically imbalanced match-up. It also helps that Jaedong's vP is far superior to that of Flash.
While it is certainly possible that this is true, I don't think that quoting a Terran on TvZ map imba is really valid. I'm sorry but I've followed what pros have said about maps and they always skew the imba so that it's against whatever race they play (not surprising). Find me a quote from any Zerg pro that any of the maps favour Zerg and it would have much more meaning.
Well, the same argument applies to Zerg players as well when they say T>Z on a particular map.
Oh I even missed this, but I believe that his statement can be translated to T > Z on MP T > Z on FS, T >>> Z on OE and T >>> Z on Ulti.
Fighting spirit is the most even imo, match point still seems to definitely favor terran if not for the harrassins possibilities which still aren't too amazing, and those 2 others are just ZvT graveyards.
Uh, wasn't that like exactly the point he was trying to make?
He spent the entire post pointing out how right it is to think Jaedong should be #1, and how much of a better player Jaedong is, so any middle ground he proposed is a bit of a sham. And did so on top of being a dick about it ("you can choose to not believe players far better than you about it" and the blind fanboy garbage, despite the fact he can't apparently admit Flash, too, happens to be good at Starcraft).
? Look, I could put together a similiar post about Flash as I did about Jaedong. It doesn't have to be my opinion, but those are just reasons for why people who like that specific player might believe that JD deserves to be #1. What's hard to get? Have you never tought objectively without regarding your opinion on the matter?
And yes, I believe the players I was referring to are better than you, better than me as well.
Sorry for writing four posts I was being very stupid. However, my point remains. If we are to look at this month's games, Jaedong should be above flash. The author himself says that one of the reasons flash is over jaedong is because he feels that in another best of five Flash would win.
This completely misses the point. IN THE FUTURE, flash may win, but for now, Jaedong won. And instead of revealing his Flash fanboyism why not put Jaedong over Flash because right now, Jaedong deserves it.
Oh and which is more reliable? Map statistics, or two terrans regarding a map imbalance?
IMHO, let Shikyo and jakel do next months power rank!! Flash who? I think we will see Jaedong from spots 1-10! TBH he sure deserves it, I mean come on he totally outplayed all his opponents in all matches but falling on his own mistakes in the few matches he lost =( slash (/ <---(slash)) Sarcasm
I must admit though that it's pretty amusing to read all the arguments for or against Jaedong/Flash as #1. The arguers are trying so desperately to display their point of views in a way to show that it's the only right view on the matter. At the same time they are trying to make their whole argue look so unbiased as possible. 15 pages argumentation, in only three days!?
I ask because I think he's a fucking truck. Fuck Boxer.
What? And why would you be stupid enough to randomly insult one of, if not the, greatest SC player of all time? At least thats what I gather by your post.
On February 04 2010 10:49 Jonten wrote: IMHO, let Shikyo and jakel do next months power rank!! Flash who? I think we will see Jaedong from spots 1-10! TBH he sure deserves it, I mean come on he totally outplayed all his opponents in all matches but falling on his own mistakes in the few matches he lost =( slash (/ <---(slash)) Sarcasm
I must admit though that it's pretty amusing to read all the arguments for or against Jaedong/Flash as #1. The arguers are trying so desperately to display their point of views in a way to show that it's the only right view on the matter. At the same time they are trying to make their whole argue look so unbiased as possible. 15 pages argumentation, in only three days!?
I can write a(n unofficial) power rank for next month.
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
you're so clever even if he lost second game it wouldт't matter, because there is still opportunity to win BUT after Power Outage FlaSh was mentally broken and last game does't matter
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
you're so clever even if he lost second game it wouldт't matter, because there is still opportunity to win BUT after Power Outage FlaSh was mentally broken and last game does't matter
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
Besides, some people determined that unlike thought, flash may actually have had a mid sized army much larger then jaedongs, and instead of 5 gas Jaedong was soon to be on 3.5.
Dunno how you can fit "mid sized army" and "much larger than Jaedong's" in the same sentence but whatever you say.
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
I'm pretty sure everyone realized that Flash wasn't going to win that game.
Anyway, They are so even at this point, they should really both be placed at the #1 spot on the rank if that could be done at all. It's just ridiculous how far ahead these two are of everyone else.
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
In his SC Weekly Artosis said something along the lines of "he definitely could not have come back from that, especially not against a player like Jaedong". So I don't know where you get that from. Not that I see Flash GGing 20 seconds after the blackout, considering how long a lot of progamers tend to take until they do that (which Artosis also happened to bring up).
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
being mentally broken is flash's fault. jaedong kept it together.
we all know flash was going to lose. 5 medics, 8 marines, and only 2 vessels(which just wasted mp on ultra irradiates) vs stream of units coming to 7, 2 ultras, 2 defilers that would have forced flash to lift his only running expo? yeah. flash had a chance my ass.
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
By them both being terran
You know, playing for one race doesn't automaticaly make you a retarded biased fanboy which lack any objectivity whatsoever. But that's probably too hard to imagine, right?
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
As i watched Artosis's weekly news at SC for all , i'm pretty sure Artosis said that Kespa made the right decision by giving Jaedong the win and that Flash in no way was going to comeback not against a player of Jaedong's caliber .
Edit: didn't see someone pointing out the same thing as me a coulple of comments above mine .
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
you're so clever even if he lost second game it wouldт't matter, because there is still opportunity to win BUT after Power Outage FlaSh was mentally broken and last game does't matter
Flash said the last game was totally his loss meaning he had planned to go 7rax before the blackout.
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
By them both being terran
You know, playing for one race doesn't automaticaly make you a retarded biased fanboy which lack any objectivity whatsoever. But that's probably too hard to imagine, right?
That's the only reason I could think of for such good players to be so wrong, but it appears that they didn't even say so in the first place and this guy was just making it up.
I bet it was really hard for Jaedong to keep it together after that confidence shattering decision where he was given a free win in a starleague finals. I feel so sorry for Jaedong , he had to go through that.
On February 05 2010 03:00 fallingdream wrote: I bet it was really hard for Jaedong to keep it together after that confidence shattering decision where he was given a free win in a starleague finals. I feel so sorry for Jaedong , he had to go through that.
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
By them both being terran
You know, playing for one race doesn't automaticaly make you a retarded biased fanboy which lack any objectivity whatsoever. But that's probably too hard to imagine, right?
That's the only reason I could think of for such good players to be so wrong, but it appears that they didn't even say so in the first place and this guy was just making it up.
You did the same thing with Miracle (and Flash and Fantasy too I think) opinion about the maps. Dismiss player opinion just because they play one particular race is rather silly.
On February 04 2010 04:54 dnosrc wrote: kinda funny that msl is suddenly more important than osl when jaedong wins it ...
It isnt, beating super Flash in a bo5 on imba maps is.
+1
Forgot With Power Outage's help...
Yup, it helped him gg 20 seconds earlier than he might actually have
When most the good players like Idra or Artosis around here say "he was at a disadvantage but definitely still in the game," how does that translate to him being on the absolute verge of GGing?
By them both being terran
You know, playing for one race doesn't automaticaly make you a retarded biased fanboy which lack any objectivity whatsoever. But that's probably too hard to imagine, right?
That's the only reason I could think of for such good players to be so wrong, but it appears that they didn't even say so in the first place and this guy was just making it up.
You did the same thing with Miracle (and Flash and Fantasy too I think) opinion about the maps. Dismiss player opinion just because they play one particular race is rather silly.
Oh that's a map balance thing, although I wasn't being too serious there. Still, when talking about map balance they all make it seem like the maps are worse for their race than they actually are. For example, I'm sure a Zerg player wouldn't say MP and FS are Z>T.
Flash, during his interview after beating Jaedong in OSL, pointed out how he thought Fighting Spirit was T favored and that he had to win it, otherwise he'd be in trouble because HBR was Z favored. You can most certainly expect some players to be truthful about how hard it is to play on a map.
On February 05 2010 05:48 TwoToneTerran wrote: Flash, during his interview after beating Jaedong in OSL, pointed out how he thought Fighting Spirit was T favored and that he had to win it, otherwise he'd be in trouble because HBR was Z favored. You can most certainly expect some players to be truthful about how hard it is to play on a map.
So we have Flash saying FS is T favoured, but he didnt want to play twice on the map and Miracle is saying its Z>T.
Also, at the beginning of last season, after he won against Kwanro in the proleague he said in the interview that he think FS is difficult for Terran against Zerg.
Flash really doesn't like HBR. I think he meant that FS is much more Terran friendly than HBR. But who knows. A lot might have been lost in the translations.
On February 05 2010 10:41 Plexa wrote: Flash thumbed down FS against Jaedong and Kwanro, and he 8raxed in both games - I don't think he likes the map very much
Well... when the rest of the map pool is like that, how much can you judge from that, though? I guess he could thumb down match point, but...
On February 05 2010 15:37 TwoToneTerran wrote: Thumbing down FS meant he thought Match Point was better for TvZ than it, but that doesn't really say everything.
I know. My point was that looking at the rest of the map pool, it doesn't mean much if he thumbs down Fighting Spirit, since with the other maps I'd just leave my thumb down unused since they are so good for T.
Nobody is questioning third game (except hard core Flash fans). Forth game was a joke. There's no way in hell Flash could play that at the top level after what happened few minutes earlier. But again, JD fans need to believe that it was a fair game, couse anything else would mean that JD actually won a Bo3 match.
No one will know why he always thumbs it down until he says so himself.
Just see July and what he thinks of himself and HBR. If July was in a boX zvp and thumbs downed HBR then everyone would be like omg wtf?? Flash and FS could just be a mental block. Who knows.
- You showed a good play in the final set ▲ I think I'm just bad on Heartbreak Ridge. I think I played okay on Byzantium 3. I think Heartbreak Ridge just doesn't fit me. All the other Zerg players seem to win on that map. I don't know why I lose even though I watch my replays.
On February 05 2010 19:51 Harem wrote: No one will know why he always thumbs it down until he says so himself.
Just see July and what he thinks of himself and HBR. If July was in a boX zvp and thumbs downed HBR then everyone would be like omg wtf?? Flash and FS could just be a mental block. Who knows.
- You showed a good play in the final set ▲ I think I'm just bad on Heartbreak Ridge. I think I played okay on Byzantium 3. I think Heartbreak Ridge just doesn't fit me. All the other Zerg players seem to win on that map. I don't know why I lose even though I watch my replays.
The other three maps were more favorable to Terran than Fighting Spirit, it's natural that Flash would rather thumbs down Fighting Spirit.
On February 05 2010 10:41 Plexa wrote: Flash thumbed down FS against Jaedong and Kwanro, and he 8raxed in both games - I don't think he likes the map very much
Its also the map where he 7raxed Calm in the ace match and almost lost in the OSL Ro4 against Calm.
This is the Power Rank not the BO5 Rank. Flash was clearly more powerful in January, playing in TWO Starleague finals. Unfortunately the Jaedong fanboys in this thread are incapable of accepting this.
Flash stated in his interview that Z was a hard race to play. There you have it from one of the best players to ever play the game.
Jaedong didn't just get over map imba. He got over race imba, hands imba (Flash has bigger hands. Also, Jaedong is forced to use only the 1-7 keys because of his small hands) and even playability imba. (Flash himself said Zerg is a hard race to play).
I have no beef with the power rankings. But the reasoning about impromptu BO5s does not hold water. The entire careers of pro-gamers revolves around maps and opponents. The only time one doesn't really know his opponents beforehand is the Winner's league where a winning player has to all-kill and he has no idea who's coming next. Every other league gives a player ample time to prepare. In my opinion, the impromptu comment doesn't hold water.
On February 05 2010 23:36 J1.au wrote: This is the Power Rank not the BO5 Rank. Flash was clearly more powerful in January, playing in TWO Starleague finals. Unfortunately the Jaedong fanboys in this thread are incapable of accepting this.
EDIT: Month clarification.
Movie is not that good against T. So winning over movie is not that impressive. Especially because this is not Flash's first final. If he's really better than the Dong, he should have won the MSL when it was in his favor. Even then I have no beef with the rankings thanks to the ridiculous play of Power Outage.
In a way if you look at it, this is the best possible outcome. Flash fanboys like you can claim he's better and Dong fanboys like me can claim that the Dong is clearly better.
On February 05 2010 23:36 J1.au wrote: This is the Power Rank not the BO5 Rank. Flash was clearly more powerful in January, playing in TWO Starleague finals. Unfortunately the Jaedong fanboys in this thread are incapable of accepting this.
EDIT: Month clarification.
There is a pretty simple argument to make. Flash was in the OSL final thanks to good wins in PREVIOUS months. THIS month Jaedong has a better win % and beat Flash in a Bo5.
Now you can argue that Flash still played at a higher overall level (I don't agree) but still you can't deny the validity of the argument as simply "fanboy".
Just look at the power rank in august. JD lost to Calm in MSL semis, lost to Fantasy in PL Finals, lost to Stork in Korea WCG, lost to Hyuk, but won the fucking OSL. He was first in Power Rank and nobody complained. Flash lost only to JD in January (in a weird MSL finals) won the OSL, played great in PL and WL. Why are we even discussing the number one spot?
If you want a rank decided by statistics, I suggest you check out the ELO. Flash is #1 on that too.
If Jaedong had won his OSL games versus Flash, he would've been in two finals. I strongly suspect, that he would've won the OSL and lost the MSL to Flash under these circumstances. I'd also guess that none of you would be here arguing that Flash deserves the #1.
On February 05 2010 23:36 J1.au wrote: This is the Power Rank not the BO5 Rank. Flash was clearly more powerful in January, playing in TWO Starleague finals. Unfortunately the Jaedong fanboys in this thread are incapable of accepting this.
EDIT: Month clarification.
There is a pretty simple argument to make. Flash was in the OSL final thanks to good wins in PREVIOUS months. THIS month Jaedong has a better win % and beat Flash in a Bo5.
Now you can argue that Flash still played at a higher overall level (I don't agree) but still you can't deny the validity of the argument as simply "fanboy".
You're being foolish if you think that good play from a previous month shouldn't influence who is hot this month. A power rank that is only who plays best for 1 month at a time is worthless. No gamer plays enough games in a single month for you to draw any statistical conclusions (people get lucky sometimes). A power rank that considers only who historically is the best ever is worthless too. The real key is some sort of blend, particularly for the high ranking positions. Myself I think that it should be loosely weighted something like this 55% this month, 35% last month, 10% 2 months ago.
Don't just dismiss me as a Flash fan here, I stick to my viewpoint. Look back at the October* PR, I argued that after Flash's 10-0 October he should be ranked below Jaedong because JD won the last 2 OSLs.
*Edit, It was October, I was discussing what the rankings would be for November
On February 06 2010 17:12 InFdude wrote: Oh yeah ? In previous months Jaedong has 5 SL titles .How much does Flash have ? Imo the rank is OK Flash did win in WL (which in fact was more Jaedong loosing in WL ) so let him be first . But quit brining back old stuf.
There's so much wrong with your post, but I'll ignore the spelling. Jaedong won his 5 SL titles over three years (I guess you could count it in months, but nobody does that when you can do it in years). He's three years older than Flash, but debuted only a year earlier. Jaedong won his first SL at age 17. Flash at 17, already has two to his name.
On February 06 2010 17:12 InFdude wrote: Oh yeah ? In previous months Jaedong has 5 SL titles .How much does Flash have ? Imo the rank is OK Flash did win in WL (which in fact was more Jaedong loosing in WL ) so let him be first . But quit brining back old stuf.
There's so much wrong with your post, but I'll ignore the spelling. Jaedong won his 5 SL titles over three years (I guess you could count it in months, but nobody does that when you can do it in years). He's three years older than Flash, but debuted only a year earlier. Jaedong won his first SL at age 17. Flash at 17, already has two to his name.
JD won 5 titles in 2 years >.>, the fastest record to ever do that. The age argument is too speculative and meaningless, as only history will tell. Flash is certainly a prodigy of BW, probably one of the greatest to ever play the game. However, so is JD who is fighting for the GOAT position now only 3 people have 5 or more SL wins, and the other two are the greatest and most dominant players to play the game.
Though he was a recognized threat since 2006. You can look at it as him winning 5 titles in the last 2 years, or 5 titles over the +3 years of his career.
Flash won a title only a yearafter his debut, more or less, like Jaedong. And has obviously not gotten 5 titles yet.
To be fair, if he keeps up this rate of 1 title a year, he'll end up having 5 titles by the time he's 20 like Jaedong, as well. SC2 will probably stop it before then, though.
If Flash's recent performance is anything to go by, he will most likely have more than 5 SL titles by 20. Not to take anything away from Jaedong, but he is getting old. If anything, his career will be downhill from here. Flash however, is far from it. The only thing I can see limiting him from being the greatest ever is the death of Starcraft.
On February 05 2010 23:36 J1.au wrote: This is the Power Rank not the BO5 Rank. Flash was clearly more powerful in January, playing in TWO Starleague finals. Unfortunately the Jaedong fanboys in this thread are incapable of accepting this.
EDIT: Month clarification.
There is a pretty simple argument to make. Flash was in the OSL final thanks to good wins in PREVIOUS months. THIS month Jaedong has a better win % and beat Flash in a Bo5.
Now you can argue that Flash still played at a higher overall level (I don't agree) but still you can't deny the validity of the argument as simply "fanboy".
He won a gold and got a silver. There is no discussion necessary. It's a fanboy argument, especially considering the schedules, Flash's later win against Jaedong and the like. Please...
On February 06 2010 06:38 nimoraca wrote: Just look at the power rank in august. JD lost to Calm in MSL semis, lost to Fantasy in PL Finals, lost to Stork in Korea WCG, lost to Hyuk, but won the fucking OSL. He was first in Power Rank and nobody complained. Flash lost only to JD in January (in a weird MSL finals) won the OSL, played great in PL and WL. Why are we even discussing the number one spot?
That was because no one was playing at his level. At the moment, Jaedong and Flash are pretty even.
lol if we're only going by month by month basis for Power Rank, I don't think Jaedong or Flash should be 1st or 2nd. Jaedong's best effort was a 3 kill and Flash is basically a bench warmer because KT is pretty much demolishing everyone left and right. Both players have had pretty uneventful months so far.
Seriously, I think Guemchi deserves to be in the power rank either way. Yeah he'll probably do poorly in individual leagues but the kid is seriously saving Woongjin's ass in proleague.
On February 10 2010 08:52 De4ngus wrote: On February 06 2010 06:38 nimoraca wrote: Just look at the power rank in august. JD lost to Calm in MSL semis, lost to Fantasy in PL Finals, lost to Stork in Korea WCG, lost to Hyuk, but won the fucking OSL. He was first in Power Rank and nobody complained. Flash lost only to JD in January (in a weird MSL finals) won the OSL, played great in PL and WL. Why are we even discussing the number one spot?
That was because no one was playing at his level. At the moment, Jaedong and Flash are pretty even.
On February 10 2010 08:52 De4ngus wrote: On February 06 2010 06:38 nimoraca wrote: Just look at the power rank in august. JD lost to Calm in MSL semis, lost to Fantasy in PL Finals, lost to Stork in Korea WCG, lost to Hyuk, but won the fucking OSL. He was first in Power Rank and nobody complained. Flash lost only to JD in January (in a weird MSL finals) won the OSL, played great in PL and WL. Why are we even discussing the number one spot?
That was because no one was playing at his level. At the moment, Jaedong and Flash are pretty even.
LOL
+ lost to Effort in GOM in the previous month
his 3000++ kespa points were like WTF
KeSPA has a particular formula. OSL is weighted very highly by that formula.
I expect to see Fantasy high in next month's ranking. Since January, he's gone 12-4, with all 4 losses coming from very strong opponents (Really, Skyhigh, Leta, Stork), and his wins coming against a high level of opposition (Upmagic, Really, Jangbi, Sea, Zero, Firebathero --- plus a win against Calm in late December that I didn't count into the 12-4 stat). He's the pillar of SKT in winner's league right now, which is hardly what you'd expect from Fantasy; typically his great strength has been individual league preparation, with Bisu being the WL powerhouse and the stronger player overall. Now Fantasy has tied Bisu for his Elo spot after Flash and Jaedong, and he's looking extremely sharp in all matchups. I hope that Fantasy will play well enough over the rest of the month to land him a 3rd place spot on the PR; he's certainly on the right track.
On February 10 2010 08:52 De4ngus wrote: On February 06 2010 06:38 nimoraca wrote: Just look at the power rank in august. JD lost to Calm in MSL semis, lost to Fantasy in PL Finals, lost to Stork in Korea WCG, lost to Hyuk, but won the fucking OSL. He was first in Power Rank and nobody complained. Flash lost only to JD in January (in a weird MSL finals) won the OSL, played great in PL and WL. Why are we even discussing the number one spot?
That was because no one was playing at his level. At the moment, Jaedong and Flash are pretty even.
LOL
+ lost to Effort in GOM in the previous month
his 3000++ kespa points were like WTF
KeSPA has a particular formula. OSL is weighted very highly by that formula.
how can you not be on power rank when you are 6-0 for the month? I don't get the reasoning for that, is he not listed because he has not been listed before and has to prove more ? That would be anything else but a MONTHLY power rank
I'm pretty sure Plexa works with a 2 month judgment criteria. Also, the impression you get from Guemchi currently is not the same at the beginning of the month.
Guemchi isn't on the power rank because nobody would have even remotely considered him until about 6 days before the rank came out (not sure of the exact time frame).
However, what is truly baffling is that firebathero was mentioned on the ranking at all - it seems to me that if firebathero somehow made it onto the rank, the same criteria should propel Guemchi to the rank as well.
Personally, I think they both merit CBNC, with decent rankings next month of they continue performing awesomely - you can't do well right at the end of the month and expect to be ranking over players consistently good over the entire month.
FBH made it onto the rank because he beat Bisu and Best which is better than Effort and the rest of CJ, especially when you consider it's FBH. Beating Bisu and Best.
On January 31 2010 21:10 Xinliben wrote: I'm expecting good things from Really, his play has been so good lately.
I agree, his terran skills are going strong, ande even made it past the Korean Air OSL prelims, im expecting him to at least make it into the Ro.8, and if he gets lucky, Semis.
On February 14 2010 15:43 Avidkeystamper wrote: "so good" and "lately" are the understatements of the year. Edit: initially read that as Flash. >_> Don't let Harem get wind of this.
Right after everyone jumped on the Really bandwagon he goes on an epic losing streak. It looks like he's the next in a the long line of Terran players who can't win a game to save their lives outside of Pro League.
Flash is a demon in the body of a seventeen year old kid. Unstoppable. On the bright side he's pretty definitively staying at #1 unless Jaedong all kills next week and Flash loses his first match, which would even them up a bit (Well then Flash would be 7-2 in WL And Jaedong would be 10-5 so atleast a similar differential).
Guess who has a winning record against JD now? That's right; Storkuuuuu! <3 What an epic way of ending JD's ZvP streak.
And ya, Flash isn't human. All-killing SKT is impressive as hell, and all of a sudden he's around 80 ELO points above JD. :O He's also getting close to reaching his own TvP ELO record. It's awesome to see him beating S-class Tosses within like 10 minutes. Turtle Flash is no more! I can't wait to see how he does against Samsung. An all-kill there will be nearly impossible IMO.
On February 20 2010 17:10 Holgerius wrote: Guess who has a winning record against JD now? That's right; Storkuuuuu! <3 What an epic way of ending JD's ZvP streak.
And ya, Flash isn't human. All-killing SKT is impressive as hell, and all of a sudden he's around 80 ELO points above JD. :O He's also getting close to reaching his own TvP ELO record. It's awesome to see him beating S-class Tosses within like 10 minutes. Turtle Flash is no more! I can't wait to see how he does against Samsung. An all-kill there will be nearly impossible IMO.
But I like Turtle Flash... T.T
No, really I do. People don't understand how much skill there is in playing a defensive game. All they see is tanks not moving, and not the positioning they've been placed in. I love to watch players throw everything they've got against him and still come up short.
On the other hand, it's pretty fucking cool to see Flash dismantle people early on, too. Remember, he was cheddar before he was a turtle, and now his TvP has taken a slightly more aggressive Hiya/Forgg-like Timing push style.
On February 21 2010 01:57 Djabanete wrote: Flash's TvP is looking like his TvZ did a couple months ago --- people can't even last 15 minutes against him.
It's crazy how good he is right now... it's just crazy. Best TvT, best TvZ by a mile, and his TvP is goddamn ferocious.
Elo differentials says it all.
89 point above 2nd best TvT'er (Leta) 112 points above 2nd best TvZ'er (Sea) 84 points above 2nd best TvP'er (Fantasy)
He is the best Terran by miles. If you compare elo player by player the differences are even more impressive.
The best terran in the world crushing the best protosses in the world. The best protoss in the world killing the best zerg in the world. And the best zerg in the world winning 3-1 against the best terran in the world in MSL finals. Now that's what I call a balanced game!
Well, and the best terran raping the best zerg in OSL round of 8, and the best toss raping the best terran in group stages, and the best zerg taking down the best protoss in WCG, and let's not forget the--
On February 23 2010 22:25 TwoToneTerran wrote: Well, and the best terran raping the best zerg in OSL round of 8, and the best toss raping the best terran in group stages, and the best zerg taking down the best protoss in WCG, and let's not forget the--
They all trade games pretty regularly.
I think he wasn't being sarcastic. Normally people complain about P>T>Z>P, so he was pointing out that it wasn't universal.
Why Stork above Jaedong now all of a sudden? Just because stork took a game off him? Jaedong and Flash was ridiculously far ahead from everyone else 1 month ago, and I can agree that atleast jaedong is pulled back alittle bit by those three zerglosses recently, but not enough to drop a spot to someone who went 5-3 this month so far, nothing special.
According to many at the beginning of the month, nothing but the previous month matters in Power Rank, so I look forward to hearing all the same people arguing Guemchi for #1 in March.
On February 25 2010 00:24 SimonB wrote: According to many at the beginning of the month, nothing but the previous month matters in Power Rank, so I look forward to hearing all the same people arguing Guemchi for #1 in March.
He was knocked out of both the MSL and the OSL this month. Hardly inspired form.
This is a really hard month to rank, we'll have to see what happens in the final week.
Flash is number1 after bouncing back from the MSL and looking indestructible. At the moment Jaedong doesn't look good for spot 2. He hasn't had many games and compared to the way he hyped himself up in an interview with Flash has underachieved.
Just off the top of my head Stork, Zero, Hyun and Light have been playing really well this month. They could slot mid table or maybe higher if they keep it up.
Edit: Add Baby to that list, he's had a powerful month xD
On February 25 2010 23:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah man, that's totally failing, winning seven games in a row in winner's league only to drop a game to a dt rush.
Yeah man, that's totally failing, not having any sense of humor and being a miserable, childish dumbass. congrats
On February 25 2010 23:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah man, that's totally failing, winning seven games in a row in winner's league only to drop a game to a dt rush.
Yeah man, that's totally failing, not having any sense of humor and being a miserable, childish dumbass. congrats
half the people who dog on Flash for that loss are serious as all hell, but on the bright side you made up for it by being a jerk when someone misinterprets.
edit-- basically, my point is before jumping to gatling fire of insults just calm down and understand some people might not get internet sarcasm sometimes, especially when what you're doing is pretty damn gray considering Flash gets more hate than anyone when he WINS, much less when he has an embarrassing loss.
The joke was fine but you really shouldn't go out of your way for being mean when it, admittedly, goes over my head and I take it seriously. =\ My comment wasn't even inflammatory so much as defensive.
I think Zero should be on the list. He passed his MST group, went 3-1 against OZ (with a win against Jaedong), 2-1 against MBC (with a win against Sea), 2-0 against STX (winning the ace match), and 0-1 against Wemade. Overall a good record; certainly much better than e.g. Calm's.
On February 25 2010 23:38 TwoToneTerran wrote: Yeah man, that's totally failing, winning seven games in a row in winner's league only to drop a game to a dt rush.
Yeah man, that's totally failing, not having any sense of humor and being a miserable, childish dumbass. congrats
lol congrats on not having any empathy and being a huge douchebag instead of just being like "Twotone I was jk ^^" when you replyed to him.
On February 26 2010 03:51 okum wrote: I think Zero should be on the list. He passed his MST group, went 3-1 against OZ (with a win against Jaedong), 2-1 against MBC (with a win against Sea), 2-0 against STX (winning the ace match), and 0-1 against Wemade. Overall a good record; certainly much better than e.g. Calm's.
He is not on the list because he did not perform that during the month of January. Look forward to him being on the list for March.
On February 26 2010 03:51 okum wrote: I think Zero should be on the list. He passed his MST group, went 3-1 against OZ (with a win against Jaedong), 2-1 against MBC (with a win against Sea), 2-0 against STX (winning the ace match), and 0-1 against Wemade. Overall a good record; certainly much better than e.g. Calm's.
He is not on the list because he did not perform that during the month of January. Look forward to him being on the list for March.
I should use the quote feature more liberally (it was in response to o[twist]'s list, and definitely about the upcoming rank).
On February 27 2010 00:17 Holgerius wrote: What the fuck? Put that in a spoiler tag yo, you have just ruined the entire element of surprise that I find so tantalizing about a new PR. You suck.
By quoting Plexa's text, you defeat the purpose of him spoiler-tagging it...
There's no way it can be anybody other than Flash at #1. Jaedong may even have slipped below No. 2. His ZvP streak is also broken thanks to that ridiculously good game against Stork. I'd say he's slipped. I just can't think of anyone to place above him atm.
All part of the plan. JD's pre StartLeague mini-slump.
Flash is clearly #1. By far. 10-2 in WL, looking uber dominant. Fantasy has been making a good case to return to his #2 spot among Terrans. Light and Puma have been pleasant surprises from the Terrans. Leta/Really/Hiya/Baby all at +3 isn't so unexpected.
Lately, I think that Kal is making a case for being the most convincingly strong Protoss. Of course I'm content with Stork as top Protoss as well -- Stork is clearly the more well-rounded player at the moment. As far as the other top Protosses go, all I can say is "What the hell?" Such inconsistent results.
Zerg... JD is still the strongest. Then Calm. Then Zero. And right now, I think Kwanro is the #4 Zerg. Effort seems to have fallen off a bit.
This is the month of Terran. To be honest, I expect to see Flash and Fantasy both in the top 4 and probably two more Terrans in the top 10 and perhaps another 2 more in CBNC.
On February 28 2010 13:53 funnycide93090 wrote: My Prediction for March PR: 1. Flash 2. Stork 3. Fantasy 4. Jaedong 5. Kal 6. Sea 7. Zero 8. Great 9. Killer 10. Power Outage
I'm sorry but Jaedong has won a SL in the last 3 seasons. Argue that it shouldn't count all you want but that's impressive and that earns him the benefit of the doubt. JD had an unimpressive October too but he emerged from that.
EPT
But I beleive there are some spelling errors.
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/players/444.jpg)
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