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On January 08 2010 23:28 Kompicek wrote:His PvZ is topnotch but its impossible to clearly say its better than bisu and stork  he was better prepared for shine, he had the advantage of playing him later on.. Shine cant win a straightup game with any of the mentioned players.
Lol he had the advantage of playing him later on ? What is this advantage actually ? Playing a Bo5 ? And sorry , but Shine only really commited to a semi-allin / cheese in the first game vs Movie he straight up beat Stork , Bisu and played the rest of the series against Movie beating him in him the third game ... Stop making excuses why Bisu or Stork lost . They played bad and thus they lost .
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On January 09 2010 00:45 SuperArc wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 00:04 Oystein wrote:On January 08 2010 23:07 SuperArc wrote:On January 08 2010 21:27 Plexa wrote:On January 08 2010 20:41 Oystein wrote:On January 08 2010 20:29 Plexa wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Shine] +Wow Shine, way to choke. Kiss your high ranking spot in the PR goodbye Choke? He played the same way he did vs Bisu\Stork except his style has been figured out by movie. Ultimate ZvP sniper was a bit premature. + Show Spoiler +The way he played at key moments is pretty indicative that his nerves were getting to him =/
i.e. his hydra control during the cannon break in game 1 as opposed to his hydra control later on in game 1
and then in game 2 where he choked as he was dropped and movie was moving out
bleh Yeah, but Movie was at least as nervous as Shine was. It's both people's first Bo5. And Movie had to play against a good player on bad maps for him. He clearly showed his PvZ is way stronger than Bisu/Stork's is. How did he show that his PvZ is way stronger? Because he managed to beat Shine? Sure Movie has a very strong PvZ, but to draw the conclusion that he is way stronger at it than say Bisu who is 17-5 in his last 22 PvZ, a career winrate of 66.4% and on a 7 game winstreak vs Z is ignorant at best. While Bisu losing to Shine was bad, he did it during a time when Zergs was killing Protosses left and right and the tosses had yet found a good counter to the muta snipes. Yes, because he managed to beat Shine. Maybe you forgot, but zergs still keep killing protosses left and right. Movie was/is just an exception. And no one says Bisu isnt a zerg destroyer IN THE OLD DAYS. People blamed Bisu/Stork's losses to the maps, guess what? Movie won on the exact same maps (in fact he won on the Z>>>>>P maps). Bisu is generally a better player than Movie yes, better mechanics too. That's why he will also get better results. But in PvZ? It's been a long, long while since we had a "OMG Bisu!!!" moment in his PvZs. Movie is just playing better against zergs than Bisu is.
Lol just an exception? Unlike during the summer\autumn there are lots of people who wins PvZ. Hell Best is 6-4 in his last 10, so is Jangbi and even on a 6 game winstreak, Kal is 7-3 in his last 10, Bisu 8-2 and both Free and Stork at 5-5. There are lots of tosses who do good vs Zerg these days, unlike 3-6 months ago when ZvP was like around 70% Z favored over several months of time and even no name Zergs was taking down big tosses. Today however tosses are doing well vs Z all considered, since there always is a slight balance favor for Zerg regardless in the matchup.
In case you have not realized it yet, Shine is NOT a top ZvP player. Hes taken down 2 good tosses and done nothing else, look at his play today in game2,3,4 and tell me he is a top ZvP player...
Of course Movie got a strong PvZ and is playing kinda his own unique style and is probably a top3 PvZ player, but to rate him as the supreme best PvZer because he beats Shine just makes you look like an ignorant fool with no clue about what your talking about. PS. The maps are not Z>>>>>>>>>>>>>P, the only map that seems really Z favored is El Nino, but I got a feeling the stats for the map are rather skewed and its in fact not as bad PvZ as people think, and with a bigger sample size would even more out. Both Fighting and EOTS seems pretty balanced and the new HBR also seems to be pretty balanced, unlike the old version that favored Zerg. So while they favor Zerg, they are far from impossible to win on unlike say the map pool that was during Batoo (Chupung ROTK and TOTM all being terrible for PvZ).
Bisu only good in the old days? The guy is winning consistently as he has done most of his career and is looking solid as of lately and is on a 7 game winstreak (granted not vs the strongest opponents, tho it include your wonderboy Shine), and as I mentioned earlier is 17-5 in his last 22 PvZ, what more do you expect from him? To be Flash and win all 22? You are clueless if you think his PvZ is not top notch.
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On January 09 2010 03:02 Oystein wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 00:45 SuperArc wrote:On January 09 2010 00:04 Oystein wrote:On January 08 2010 23:07 SuperArc wrote:On January 08 2010 21:27 Plexa wrote:On January 08 2010 20:41 Oystein wrote:On January 08 2010 20:29 Plexa wrote:+ Show Spoiler [Shine] +Wow Shine, way to choke. Kiss your high ranking spot in the PR goodbye Choke? He played the same way he did vs Bisu\Stork except his style has been figured out by movie. Ultimate ZvP sniper was a bit premature. + Show Spoiler +The way he played at key moments is pretty indicative that his nerves were getting to him =/
i.e. his hydra control during the cannon break in game 1 as opposed to his hydra control later on in game 1
and then in game 2 where he choked as he was dropped and movie was moving out
bleh Yeah, but Movie was at least as nervous as Shine was. It's both people's first Bo5. And Movie had to play against a good player on bad maps for him. He clearly showed his PvZ is way stronger than Bisu/Stork's is. How did he show that his PvZ is way stronger? Because he managed to beat Shine? Sure Movie has a very strong PvZ, but to draw the conclusion that he is way stronger at it than say Bisu who is 17-5 in his last 22 PvZ, a career winrate of 66.4% and on a 7 game winstreak vs Z is ignorant at best. While Bisu losing to Shine was bad, he did it during a time when Zergs was killing Protosses left and right and the tosses had yet found a good counter to the muta snipes. Yes, because he managed to beat Shine. Maybe you forgot, but zergs still keep killing protosses left and right. Movie was/is just an exception. And no one says Bisu isnt a zerg destroyer IN THE OLD DAYS. People blamed Bisu/Stork's losses to the maps, guess what? Movie won on the exact same maps (in fact he won on the Z>>>>>P maps). Bisu is generally a better player than Movie yes, better mechanics too. That's why he will also get better results. But in PvZ? It's been a long, long while since we had a "OMG Bisu!!!" moment in his PvZs. Movie is just playing better against zergs than Bisu is. Lol just an exception? Unlike during the summer\autumn there are lots of people who wins PvZ. Hell Best is 6-4 in his last 10, so is Jangbi and even on a 6 game winstreak, Kal is 7-3 in his last 10, Bisu 8-2 and both Free and Stork at 5-5. There are lots of tosses who do good vs Zerg these days, unlike 3-6 months ago when ZvP was like around 70% Z favored over several months of time and even no name Zergs was taking down big tosses. Today however tosses are doing well vs Z all considered, since there always is a slight balance favor for Zerg regardless in the matchup. In case you have not realized it yet, Shine is NOT a top ZvP player. Hes taken down 2 good tosses and done nothing else, look at his play today in game2,3,4 and tell me he is a top ZvP player... Of course Movie got a strong PvZ and is playing kinda his own unique style and is probably a top3 PvZ player, but to rate him as the supreme best PvZer because he beats Shine just makes you look like an ignorant fool with no clue about what your talking about. PS. The maps are not Z>>>>>>>>>>>>>P, the only map that seems really Z favored is El Nino, but I got a feeling the stats for the map are rather skewed and its in fact not as bad PvZ as people think, and with a bigger sample size would even more out. Both Fighting and EOTS seems pretty balanced and the new HBR also seems to be pretty balanced, unlike the old version that favored Zerg. So while they favor Zerg, they are far from impossible to win on unlike say the map pool that was during Batoo (Chupung ROTK and TOTM all being terrible for PvZ). Bisu only good in the old days? The guy is winning consistently as he has done most of his career and is looking solid as of lately and is on a 7 game winstreak (granted not vs the strongest opponents, tho it include your wonderboy Shine), and as I mentioned earlier is 17-5 in his last 22 PvZ, what more do you expect from him? To be Flash and win all 22? You are clueless if you think his PvZ is not top notch.
Just ignore him he is just another Bisu hater.
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Idd, Bisu still has by far the best PvZ in the world
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I believe that both Movies and Shines performances today were more influenced by the fact that it was their first Bo5 on a big stage rather than their strength in the specific matchup. Both made mistakes, but Movie played far better. And even with the mistakes he made, his PvZ looked rock solid. I also still believe that Shine is a really good ZvP player, he just choked under the pressure today.
but maybe in a few months time you can tell me to eat my words.
And saying that Bisu is not a PvZ beast anymore is ridiculous.
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No JangBi in the CBNC 
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On January 09 2010 08:24 Malinor wrote:
I believe that both Movies and Shines performances today were more influenced by the fact that it was their first Bo5 on a big stage rather than their strength in the specific matchup. Both made mistakes, but Movie played far better. And even with the mistakes he made, his PvZ looked rock solid. I also still believe that Shine is a really good ZvP player, he just choked under the pressure today.
but maybe in a few months time you can tell me to eat my words.
No, I can tell you to eat your words right now. WATCH HIS GAMES + Show Spoiler +especially the recent one vs Jangbi
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On January 09 2010 13:48 writer22816 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 09 2010 08:24 Malinor wrote:
I believe that both Movies and Shines performances today were more influenced by the fact that it was their first Bo5 on a big stage rather than their strength in the specific matchup. Both made mistakes, but Movie played far better. And even with the mistakes he made, his PvZ looked rock solid. I also still believe that Shine is a really good ZvP player, he just choked under the pressure today.
but maybe in a few months time you can tell me to eat my words.
No, I can tell you to eat your words right now. WATCH HIS GAMES + Show Spoiler +especially the recent one vs Jangbi
+ Show Spoiler +So he played bad one day after the worst defeat of his life? Shocking. My words are not fully cooked yet, so give me some more time to eat them.
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On January 09 2010 17:27 sethlin wrote:
Nice first post. Welcome to TL.
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Oh please, Bisu's pvz crown is gone. Movie is the top dog now. He is by far the most dangerous Protoss in PvZ.
Movie's 2-base strong aggression is kicking 5-hatch hydra's ass. Don't forget he also beat Zero 2-0, who is a strong management zerg. So his style works well vs both aggressive and macro styles.
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On January 10 2010 00:08 vnlegend wrote:
Oh please, Bisu's pvz crown is gone. Movie is the top dog now. He is by far the most dangerous Protoss in PvZ.
Movie's 2-base strong aggression is kicking 5-hatch hydra's ass. Don't forget he also beat Zero 2-0, who is a strong management zerg. So his style works well vs both aggressive and macro styles.
..you're comparing Bisu's top 10 PvZ since FOREVER vs Movie's GOOD FOR THE LAST MONTH PvZ?
bisu's PvZ has been impressive since forever
Movie's PvZ has been wow'ing TL for .. what. a month?
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United States8841 Posts
For about 2 seasons when he traded a lot of games with Jaedong via using really interesting and impressive builds.
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Plexa your such a self-righteous, opinionated and poor writer with garbage logic. Definitely the worst on team liquid. Plexa YOU SUCK.
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On January 10 2010 01:55 DreaM)XeRO wrote:Show nested quote +On January 10 2010 00:08 vnlegend wrote:
Oh please, Bisu's pvz crown is gone. Movie is the top dog now. He is by far the most dangerous Protoss in PvZ.
Movie's 2-base strong aggression is kicking 5-hatch hydra's ass. Don't forget he also beat Zero 2-0, who is a strong management zerg. So his style works well vs both aggressive and macro styles. ..you're comparing Bisu's top 10 PvZ since FOREVER vs Movie's GOOD FOR THE LAST MONTH PvZ? bisu's PvZ has been impressive since forever Movie's PvZ has been wow'ing TL for .. what. a month?
Bisu vs Movie Bo5 to settle once and for all who has the best PvZ!
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3 Lions
United States3705 Posts
On January 10 2010 06:11 yunicyarblejellythou wrote:
Plexa your such a self-righteous, opinionated and poor writer with garbage logic. Definitely the worst on team liquid. Plexa YOU SUCK.
proof?
wow lol, way to be hypocritical and not back up your own logic
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Hey Plexa! Congrats on your first anti-fan =).
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motbob
United States12546 Posts
On January 10 2010 06:11 yunicyarblejellythou wrote:
Plexa your such a self-righteous, opinionated and poor writer with garbage logic. Definitely the worst on team liquid. Plexa YOU SUCK.
"you're"
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Fenrax
United States5018 Posts
no surprise, JD keeps onbeing close to 70% while Stork keeps on being close to 60% like in november and dezember; such a fail rating
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stork 10-6 jaedong 16-4 since december...
I mean, it would be pretty ballsy to put stork at 3rd on the december PR.
Why did you have to push him above jaedong:O
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EPT
