EPT[SC2] Reunderstanding the game - Page 9
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ghermination
United States2851 Posts
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MoAT
Austria7 Posts
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closed
Vatican City State491 Posts
Basically, in a game where people would only make lings vs lings, the faster player will always be able to macro "better". If you miss just that one larvae injection you are dead. Seriously, blizzard should find a better click-sink. Messing with the economy sounds so unfair. In regular brood war you can do pretty well up to late game with 100apm. Of course your micro will be bad, but your macro should be ok. In SC2 you miss few larvae injections and you die? | ||
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Cheerio
Ukraine3178 Posts
On June 30 2009 05:13 zatic wrote: There is no metal anymore, it's either marines or marauders. incorrect. There is no metal yet. P.S. Good info, thanks. | ||
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Pape
Serbia419 Posts
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invy
Bosnia-Herzegovina41 Posts
On July 01 2009 04:57 closed wrote: I really dont like the larvae economy. It sounds really stupid. It gives super big advantage to faster players. Every X seconds you have to click on queen and do X. Of course in brood war the faster player can get an advantage (e.g. make that one more factory), but it doesnt happen every X seconds. Basically, in a game where people would only make lings vs lings, the faster player will always be able to macro "better". If you miss just that one larvae injection you are dead. Seriously, blizzard should find a better click-sink. Messing with the economy sounds so unfair. In regular brood war you can do pretty well up to late game with 100apm. Of course your micro will be bad, but your macro should be ok. In SC2 you miss few larvae injections and you die? Nice point, zerg player would want every X seconds to click queen and spawn larvae... for few hatcheries and queens it equals to robo mechanic style... and thats not fun after all and its not much of a skill either. This should be really somehow changed/improved. | ||
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808y
Germany2 Posts
But what about, if you connect the nat and the main with creep? And another thing: what about 2 queens using this injection on 1 hatchery does this work too? Imagine this: connecting the nat with the main with creep, and building 2 queens. Since the "cooldown" seems so low. I would make it possible to inject both queens at the nat, and move to the main, inject there again and move back to the nat. If the cooldown is about as long as the queen needs to move from the nat to the main: 9 Larvae @nat + 9 Larvae @main, with just 2 hatcherys and 2 queens. This would be fucking crazy. Can you comment on this? | ||
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Hieros
United States83 Posts
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butters742
Canada1 Post
but ur right they need to make micro better. i suck at it, but i know its a needed quality in SC | ||
zatic
Zurich15357 Posts
2 on 1 hatch doesn't work either since you have to wait the ~30 seconds until the extra larvae spawn before you can inject again. | ||
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Zzoram
Canada7115 Posts
On July 01 2009 05:04 Pape wrote: First UMS==> Starcraft 1 in 3d More likely, Greener TD or Defense of the XelNaga. | ||
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wrags
United States379 Posts
On July 01 2009 06:35 zatic wrote: As I mentioned in the updates, the queen does in fact need energy to inject the larvae. It is just enough to keep one hatchery saturated with extra larvae. 2 on 1 hatch doesn't work either since you have to wait the ~30 seconds until the extra larvae spawn before you can inject again. Did you try any combination of like 3 hatchery 2 queen, 5 hatchery 3 queen or does one queen suffice for everything? | ||
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SoleSteeler
Canada5455 Posts
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invy
Bosnia-Herzegovina41 Posts
On July 01 2009 07:10 SoleSteeler wrote: So the Queen basically means you need half as many hatcheries as you do in SC, would that be accurate to say? Hm how much time does it take Hatch to spawn 3 larvae ?! Less then 30, Hatch > Queen, more than 30, Queen > Hatch .. if you dont forget to click Queen. Queen dies easier than hatch, it spawns 3 larvae at the same time if I understood, which has its adv and disadvantages.. its different game than sc1 :p there will probably be some optimal mix hatch/queen discovered by practice. | ||
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kyama
United States118 Posts
On July 01 2009 06:03 808y wrote: Zatic, you say its more or less impossible to inject larvae with one queen into 2 hatcherys, because queens are so slow to move from the nat to the main. But what about, if you connect the nat and the main with creep? And another thing: what about 2 queens using this injection on 1 hatchery does this work too? Imagine this: connecting the nat with the main with creep, and building 2 queens. Since the "cooldown" seems so low. I would make it possible to inject both queens at the nat, and move to the main, inject there again and move back to the nat. If the cooldown is about as long as the queen needs to move from the nat to the main: 9 Larvae @nat + 9 Larvae @main, with just 2 hatcherys and 2 queens. This would be fucking crazy. Can you comment on this? I remember when they said there will be a limit to how many larvaes a hatchery can have. For example if you inject larvae and don't use it, it won't go over a certain amount of larvaes. So, to have two queens injecting larvae on 1 hatchery is impossible. Unless, they changed it with new build. | ||
Chill
Calgary25990 Posts
On July 01 2009 07:30 kyama wrote: I remember when they said there will be a limit to how many larvaes a hatchery can have. For example if you inject larvae and don't use it, it won't go over a certain amount of larvaes. So, to have two queens injecting larvae on 1 hatchery is impossible. Unless, they changed it with new build. He meant one Queen / Hatchery I believe. | ||
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MoAT
Austria7 Posts
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lokiM
United States3407 Posts
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AlwaysGG
Taiwan952 Posts
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Krikkitone
United States1451 Posts
They are both "cooldown" controlled as opposed to energy controlled Energy is a resource that must be balanced between multiple uses. Cooldown doesn't need to be balanced as it is a time limit. A key problem in the 'type' of cooldown you have for Protoss+Zerg is the 'exact timing' problem Zerg. If you have sufficient Queens, then you MUST cast Larve exactly every 30 sec. cast it every 35 sec. and you end up with too few larva you Can't cast it at 25 sec. For Zerg, I'd 1) Increase the energy cost of spawn Larva so that it is greater the amount of energy the Queen will regenerate in the amount of cooldown Casting spawn Larva has. 2) Allow Multiple Spawn Larvas on a Hatchery By increasing the energy cost you can balance it. Cooldowns might be a limiting factor but neither the "Queen cooldown" nor the "Hatchery cooldown" would be the limiting factor. It would be Queen Energy, a useful resource. For Protoss, The key thing I would do is allow "stacking" Proton charge. Right now, (assuming the time it lasts is 30 sec.) If you charge every 35 sec you lose potential minerals If you charge every 25 sec you waste energy That is because if you charge twice 25 sec apart you only get 55 sec of Boost If you charge twice Exactly 30 sec apart, you get the full 60 sec. If casting 'Proton charge'' on a probe Increased the duration of the probes charge by 30 sec. instead of Setting it to 30 sec, then the exact tedious timing would be gone.... If you charged your probes, you could just 'recharge' them whenever you had spare energy/spare time... as long a you didn't wait too long. | ||
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