The Progamers participating in Superfight #5 have been finalized.
They are: Lee Yoonyeol(nada), Choi Yunsung(oov), and Jun Sangwook(midas) from Terran, Ma Jaeyoon(savior), Park Sungjoon(july), and Lee Jaedong from Zerg, Kim Taekyong(bisu), Kang Min(nal_ra), and Oh Youngjong(anytime) from Protoss.
The coaches for each race were selected among the team coaches whose player is not participating in Superfight #5. They are: Lee Jaegyun of Hanbit for Terran, Kim Gaeul of Samsung for Zerg, and Lee Daniel of eSTRO for Protoss. Since they carry out a vital role in strategically arranging the match roster accordingly, they also receive the same prize money as those progamers do.
Three maps were selected among seven candidate maps for the next Proleague undergoing a practice run within all teams for various testing. These three were recommended because they showed promising balancing. However, none of them are yet selected as the next Proleague map, although it is highly probable that, assuming they display exciting matches in this Superfight, they will be part of the next Proleague.
I will save my boring introductions and analogy to the maps, for it is much better for us to take a look for ourselves and evaluate and discuss about it.
Geometry
Monty Hall
Nemesis
As much as I am excited about this upcoming Superfight, I am just as well excited about one of the map creators in OMAT to come forward and offer us(just like last time with Hitchhiker and so on) the full-featured analyzation with history and background stories. I will be more than willing translate those articles for they are so intuitive and informational.
But anyways, for the time being, Superfight #5. And, /nick nada_rinizim period.
this inflationary accumulation of new superfights sucks. they have already become rather boring.
but it's cool to see the next maps beforehand and hopefully this way there won't be any new biforsts and paradoxx'. geometry and nemesis look cool. but monty hall can not stay like that. zerg won't win a game there. on the other hand this map might stop this fast-expo-all-the-time trend for t/p.
On March 23 2007 03:23 Asta wrote: this inflationary accumulation of new superfights sucks. they have already become rather boring.
but it's cool to see the next maps beforehand and hopefully this way there won't be any new biforsts and paradoxx'. geometry and nemesis look cool. but monty hall can not stay like that. zerg won't win a game there. on the other hand this map might stop this fast-expo-all-the-time trend for t/p.
Actually, using the 2 drone 1 drone hop mineral glitch thingy would work quite well here.
Geometry looks like they just incorporated the battlefields from Shin Peaks of Baekdu, which is not such a bad idea since that map was considered very balanced from the results. But its also a pain tin the you know what to write reports on maps like this because it involves mini skirmishes everywhere.
Monty Hall I think those three gas naturals would be a real pain to defend from muta harass.
Nemesis seriously brings me an odd nostalgic feeling. (Not the map, Nostalgia). It has a very Forte feel with a little Blade Storm added into it?
i've been spoiled, i think these maps all mediocre at first glance the maps are all aesthetically boner-killing. nemesis looks terrible and cheap, while geometry is a hideous peaks of baekdu four player adaptation crossed with a little intothedarkness. the actual games on this map could be very, very interesting and promising but by itself geometry seems remarkably uninspired. i am curious as to how the balance of monty hall plays out because it looks pretty bad too.
i'd really like to read the mapmakers' comments on these maps
Shit ass maps, first one looks like a modification of NFZ only ground, the 2nd looks like a stretched out blue vagina(and probably the only interesting one, zerg is gonna have a bitch, and 3rd looks like a neo forte on crack, without all the expoes and cliffs.
All these maps seem to favor protoss, but that's just my take.
on a second thought, 2nd one is so ROFL. some guy could get 4 gas well into the late phases ._.
Ok. JD is a big surprise. From the votes I thought YarnC was in for sure. He and GoRush were battling for 3rd, but then comes JD. Maybe YarnC's weakness in ZvP is what slowed him down, while JD generally showed no weakness.
Mida/Oov doesn't surprise me, and neither does Ra/AnyTime, though it surprised me that Much got 0 votes from the officials.
As for the maps..... what the hell? Geometry looks like some noobie-made money map or something. The multiple gas ramps are somewhat interesting, but a very boring look to it.
MontyHall seems like death once you get contained. Put a camp force on any of the three entrances and you automatically have the middle nat sieged on (as terran), dismantling 2 expansions.
The fact that there's not route that connects the 3 roads in the middle really kills the idea. If you attack one way, see them coming out the other and decide you need to fight head on, you have to come all the way home and change routes.... then realize they did the same?
Nemesis also looks boring. Might as well call it Macro-Whore.
Perhaps we should wait and see the results on these maps... maybe they will be great. But from first look, highly disappointing.
I think you guys dismiss the maps too easily. I actually like Geometry a lot. I liked Peaks and the plateau battles, made for some fun PvZ.
It's nice to have a throw back style map with easy double natural. They aren't as typical as most maps and the ability to hide expos is nice. At least there will be different variety, also the lack of expos besides the main bases will make it fun.
And what can I say about Monty Hall? It's a new concept and it looks cool.
"die to a contain" my ass lol. The side paths have twice as many as the center path and the pathways are HUGE. I know it will be a crazy macro map but there wll be interesting enough late game choices with 3 paths, 3 sets of expos, and all the room to move around on.
And good player choices. Terran team is gonna have a field day.
Geometry looks like Peaks adapted for 4 players, with an uglier tileset. Nemesis seems like it has insanely close rush-distances at the top and bottom. Monty Hall (great name) looks cool. I agree though that they're over-doing it with these superfights, but at least they changed the maps, even though 2 of them look pretty awful.
Maps: TvP on geometry will be lol Nemesis , flanking map and no more bases to take except mains will be hard for... terran?
lets wait and see.. i hope pro-gamers can make them interesting.
There will be no muta harassment on Nemesis =( And the rushing pos on nemesis up vs down is close but wont matter so much since you cant rush the exp:D And yeah i think it'll turn out to be some kind of island oriented map with def@the choke and then drops:D
first impression; wow what noob made these maps? ...
Geometry looks like peaks of baekdu vs neo forbidden zone;; Monty Hall looks like a generic mineral block island map from bwmaps.. looks the best of the 3 maps though! Nemesis looks like neo forte vs blade storm
Well, here are my first impressions of the maps: Geometry - Checkers turned BW Monty Hall - It might be a sweet map, but it's ugly Nemesis - This looks like Blade Storm to me too. The distances look pretty short so I'm hoping for some nice action despite the super easy to take gas expo.
it looks like the map makers took a step back in progress or something. The recent maps have been getting really good then they come out with like some wierd shit. i think Zerg will have a tough time on this map, but i dont like zerg anyways so............. :-p
If you guys didn't know, the peoples vote is only 70% and other 30% of the votes are from the e-sports reporters. So unless someone had a huge margin like Nal_ra it was anyones game for other people. I personally like Jaedong and think hes gonna be big this year.
On March 23 2007 04:05 QuietIdiot wrote: oh my god.
Shit ass maps, first one looks like a modification of NFZ only ground, the 2nd looks like a stretched out blue vagina(and probably the only interesting one, zerg is gonna have a bitch, and 3rd looks like a neo forte on crack, without all the expoes and cliffs.
All these maps seem to favor protoss, but that's just my take.
on a second thought, 2nd one is so ROFL. some guy could get 4 gas well into the late phases ._.
Geometry - Just another Peaks of Baekdu with 4 players. There isnt much more about that honestly. Doesn't seem imbalanced tho. My least favorite. Actually i like the nat set-up especially for 11v1 or 7v5. So horizontal matchups could be fun.
Monty Hall - Very interesting but I'm concerned about the sizes of the mains. Very hard to macro good amount of factories or gates in those bases. Other than that, the gameplay should be fun. Lots of scouting involved to play this map. This is better of the three. I like it alot.
Nemesis - Forte + Bladestorm. There isn't anymore to it :/ Pretty standard play out of this map.
*I think broodwarmaps.net maps would be a good choice true story
wtf, those are some of the worst maps i have seen in a long time
Geometry - I disagree on the Peaks of Baekdu comments. There may be some similarities because of the... well... hills, but Peaks of Baekdu is so so so different when it comes to the real map layout and especially the expansion layout etc. That being said it looks like an absolutely terrible map
Monty Hall - FOURTEEN geysirs on a two player map??? - are they fucking nuts? I still think it looks like a fun map. Certainly by far the best of the three maps.
Nemesis - Yeah, please lets make a map where even touching the natural expansion is absolutely impossible, because we really need maps that are even more macro and totally dull like Luna or Arcadia. Brillant idea..., wtf is wrong with them? Horrible map.
The maps look decent. They give me a back to basics feeling. No more neutral buildings which I was getting tired of. It looks like they are kind of gas heavy and low on minerals, maybe this can bring some interesting strats and less macro mania. Damn I wish my connection would allow bw :/
Oh my God. I want to commit suicide. These maps are terrible, seriously. Especially Monty Hall. My God, what the hell are they thinking? HAY LETZ GIVE 'EM 4 GAS RIGHT FROM THE GET GO. OKAY WAIT THAT MIGHT BE Z IMBA, LET'S CLOSE OFF THE PATHS WITH MINERALS SO IT TAKES THEM FIVE SECONDS TO GET THROUGH THEM.
Geometry: Nice micro map, with all gas geyers for sneak expos. Monty hall: Interesting map, 14 gas total looks for a macro game, but the 3 entrance and the island expos allow for July style too, and 1 base muta or fast tank drop or something looks nice. Nemesis: Drop heaven! Slow dropping seems easy if T goes to contain your ramp, no fear of bunker rushes either.
Regarding the players: Aside from Yarnc v Jaedong (which is okay with me) it was all the players I voted for.
Maps:
Monty Hall is for sure my favorite of the three and really the only one I like (which may or may not have anything to do with its resemblance to a vagina). It seems the most difficult to fully analyze by first glance and I am interested to see what strategies top pros come up with on it.
Geometry looks like it might be a good map, but reporting on it looks to be potentially difficult and I just don't think I'll enjoy watching games on it as much. I also disliked taking geometry in school.
Nemesis just get bad looks from me all around. I kind of like the concealed nat, but dislike the low overall number of expos and especially that there are so many island expos. Space is even my least favorite tileset. In my not so expertise opinion, I think the games would be more ineteresting on it if the ramps leading into the mains were long ramps.
I am looking forward to reading the mapmaker's thoughts and history on the map. Rinizim only mentions one such map creator, do we know which map it will be for?
I like all of the maps... I'm so excited for this superfight. :D
Personally, I think most of the maps are pretty original without being outrageous. Although Nemesis reminds me of Bladestorm (as I think is the consensus), it seems original enough to be interesting, and Bladestorm is an old map anyway.
And I don't like geometry just because it looks fugly and I hate having to put obs over the ramps to get vision because I'm lazy. Having that said, I'm much more glad the professionals will be the ones playing it - not me.
I think some people are over reacting...i mean when have maps come out PERFECT on the first try...I mean I appreciate everyone's input but i mean...I can't help but think monty hall looks like a vagina simply because 3 ppl had to say it...and I mean it's a great switch from the usual swastica design...
with that said, I agree with a lot of people...Monty Hall is a great idea, but I'm sure they'll probably switch to neutral buildings sooner or later...Geometry is idea map i still think...Nemesis bad idea map =(
But I think a month or so from now we will see better maps after these maps are tested =)
I think these maps are DIFFERENT. Also, since we aren't progamer, we can't instantly shout imba. I mean, the general consensus on RT was that it would be terrible for PvT, yet, it turned out to be the exact opposite.
Give the maps a chance.
Anyways, Geometry DOES look like a bastardized Peaks, even down to the small ramp with mineral block leading to gas multi. However, there are differences in expo placement - mains/nats to expand to instead of actual multis, so the timing/feel may be different. Also, there's less variation in terrain - there are the hills, yes, but not the small water-choke paths.
Feel should be similar, I think.
Monty Hall
Watch sAviOr trip multi on this map or some stupid crap like that. This map looks nasty and zerg-ish. soooo much gas. The rush distance looks pretty long, too. Oh, and there's the part where you can't really rush since you only have a 1/3 chance of picking the right multi to attack.
I suppose you could do something like double-gate in the center and send a load of scout probes to help you mine out the mineral blocks... but I don't know how many minerals each block is, so I don't know if that's viable or not.
Nemesis is much different from Bladestorm. The multi behind base has a gas, and there is no frontyard multi. Also, the small ramps of Nemesis make for a very anti-rush map whereas Bladestorm is alright for early game aggression. The side expos are similar I guess - can tanks hit across the chasm on nemesis?
Looks to be more or less balanced. Maybe Zerg will have a hard time of it because of the ease of other races FE.
QUOTE]On March 12 2007 22:27 skindzer wrote: Z:Savior,Jae.dong,July P:Bisu,Anytime,Ra. T:Nada,Iris,Casy. PS: .... i can bet theyll end up with an imba map.[/QUOTE]
Great player selections; cant wait to see how things turn out. As for maps... geometry, looks simple, but should be a little interesting to play with all the high/low/high/low... monty hall, looks like it has some influences from hitchhiker, quite a bit of gas... nemesis, bit bland for me, especially the middle.
Holy crap, Geometry is going to be very interesting i believe, if you move your units in the wrong direction it can hurt you very badly. I guess, they are trying to do what that PGR21 articles said about the "age of napoleon" or something similar, you have to make very smart troop movements, because there are so many different paths one can take.
Alright so Jaedong was picked over GoRush due to his superior performance in Proleague yes?
But then why wasn't Pusan picked over Anytime? That was a much smaller difference in votes, and I don't remember the last time Anytime won in Proleague (lost to Reach, Rainbow, Bisu, Pusan, etc, etc) whereas Pusan has been doing well and contributed to MBC's Proleague championship.
i like the lineups very much. Only thing that is concerning is how Anytime is going to perform.
On the 1st map the choke from you main to your nat will crowd easily and when fending off a terran timing rush, you won't get high ground advantage when he is at your nat. A big difference though, is that you can use dragoons vs zerg more effectively here because there is no narrow passages in the middle of the map.
The 2nd map is pretty cool. The chance of terran scouting an fe is only 1/3. Playing against a terran might be kind of annoying because he can tech to vulture and float the fac overthe mins and harass. If he doesn't do much damage, the mins that will protect him. In tvp the terran static def won't work as effectively because you will have to either choose one section to defend. The protoss can just go the other way. If the terran splits his army and tries to defend mulitple areas, the protoss can pick off the armies in pieces.
Also none of the maps have min only. I thought that was kinda weird.
i think geometry is a very big map for his mineral content, it is 2 empty all over Monty hall, its ugly and it seems to be very wide ;x ;;; nemesis = blade storm without gas nat and +2 islands
and yes u can fit nexus, cc and hatchery there but it kinda cuts ur path LOL
On March 23 2007 15:47 Last Romantic wrote: Alright so Jaedong was picked over GoRush due to his superior performance in Proleague yes?
But then why wasn't Pusan picked over Anytime? That was a much smaller difference in votes, and I don't remember the last time Anytime won in Proleague (lost to Reach, Rainbow, Bisu, Pusan, etc, etc) whereas Pusan has been doing well and contributed to MBC's Proleague championship.
Ahaha, Monty Hall is a genius map. I didn't know it was the name for one of my favourite math riddles, but now that I know the 3 mineral "doors" are mad funny.
I only hope the games will be as exciting as the idea itself :o
On March 23 2007 15:47 Last Romantic wrote: Alright so Jaedong was picked over GoRush due to his superior performance in Proleague yes?
But then why wasn't Pusan picked over Anytime? That was a much smaller difference in votes, and I don't remember the last time Anytime won in Proleague (lost to Reach, Rainbow, Bisu, Pusan, etc, etc) whereas Pusan has been doing well and contributed to MBC's Proleague championship.
I'm so confused T-T
Simple. Anytime has more fans.
Well, Anytime enjoyed a small but fairly comfortable lead over Pusan in popular vote.
GoRush had a HUGE lead over Jaedong in the popular vote of several thousand.
If the "expert vote" can overturn that lead, why couldn't it overturn Anytime's lead over Pusan?
AT's been doing worse than GoRush recently. A lot worse. At least GoRush didn't get slaughtered like a pig in OSL.
I think anytime really sucks at pvp is all. He is one of those rare tosses where his PvT/PvZ are nearly equivalent, and seeing there will be no mirror mu's, why not put him in the fray? Pusan, sure, he has strong macro/strategics, but his PvZ is lacking, and I don't think they could afford that.
Is it jsut me or does gemetry look like a crappier 4 player ver of peaks, nemesis a crapier less semetrical ver of blade storm and monte hall jsut plane crap????!!
On March 23 2007 15:47 Last Romantic wrote: Alright so Jaedong was picked over GoRush due to his superior performance in Proleague yes?
But then why wasn't Pusan picked over Anytime? That was a much smaller difference in votes, and I don't remember the last time Anytime won in Proleague (lost to Reach, Rainbow, Bisu, Pusan, etc, etc) whereas Pusan has been doing well and contributed to MBC's Proleague championship.
I'm so confused T-T
Simple. Anytime has more fans.
Well, Anytime enjoyed a small but fairly comfortable lead over Pusan in popular vote.
GoRush had a HUGE lead over Jaedong in the popular vote of several thousand.
If the "expert vote" can overturn that lead, why couldn't it overturn Anytime's lead over Pusan?
AT's been doing worse than GoRush recently. A lot worse. At least GoRush didn't get slaughtered like a pig in OSL.
We don't know the reason some "expert" vote like that Just we can guess "maybe they favor Lecaf Oz?" or "they prefer Proleague?"
Fuck you guys, these maps are gonna be cool. Just like Hitchhiker is a good map that got so much hate, how no one liked original peaks, and how everyone thought Arcadia was gonna be cool, I think you guys will be wrong on maps.
Nemesis has shorter rush distance than any recent map that's come out, and that with a easy backdoor nat is gonna make for some interesting dynamics. At the same time, lack of any non-main land expos and the wideness and fatness of main bases will be interesting dynamics in early.
Monty Hall is crazy, I don't see how anyone thinks this map will be insanely dull. It's like Hitchhiker x 3. Plus two islands? I'm down with that. And not only that, but the 3 paths are HUGE. I can only imagine how arbiters can be abused on here, of the many other ideas with all that gas and the huge open areas. And yes, Hitchhiker made good games.
Geometrey is just cool. It will be a very plain macro map, and yet at the same time, the plateau are all the map-feature you need when you are fighting on a buncha hills. Armies will run around each other and crash screen v screen. Just like all of peaks main battles minus the infinite marching distance that armies had to go on the original Peaks. And Kingdom will destroy everyone with shuttles.
On March 23 2007 17:21 Mynock wrote: Ahaha, Monty Hall is a genius map. I didn't know it was the name for one of my favourite math riddles, but now that I know the 3 mineral "doors" are mad funny.
I only hope the games will be as exciting as the idea itself :o
-Mynock
You are slow sir :D
But indd, lets hope its as exiting as the thoughtwork put behind it .
And the chessboard looks ok too, allthough a tad uninspired.
Anyway, I have no idea about balance so far (I don't trust anybody's word if they say they do, either), so I'm really expecting some mixed and exciting results from 31st.
Geometry looks like it has the potential for lots of retarded cheese. Unless that's unbuildable terrain? it's kinda late, and i'm not seeing things right.
Yay for Monty Hall! (The problem, not the map). I can't say I like it that much. Just a bad "vibe", I guess.
I think nemesis will be awesome to watch some games on. Reminds me of maps that have passed on.
On March 23 2007 22:44 muramasa wrote: I'm curious, how many minerals are the "doors" on Monty Hall made up of? I don't have SC on this comp so I can't check it out.
Man these maps.. I have a feeling they are kinda balanced but really who cares? They suck. Honestly as a player who likes to play on new maps I have to say that as my interest in playing bw competitively wanes there couldnt have been a worse time for them to potentially put out awful maps like these; [ The luna map.. LOL
... ... None of those maps remotely look like Luna.
On March 23 2007 23:05 fusionsdf wrote: I love how all these maps make early game harass impossible
Nemesis is the shortest rush distance a map has had besides RLT lately. Not to mention the fat fat wide main base that's easier to drop early game than say... Peaks.
On March 23 2007 23:05 fusionsdf wrote: I love how all these maps make early game harass impossible
Nemesis is the shortest rush distance a map has had besides RLT lately. Not to mention the fat fat wide main base that's easier to drop early game than say... Peaks.
It also has 815 style ramps.
How effective do you think 4 pool would be on this map?
I guess map makers usually make a thread for a new map? If you can't create a thread yet, either wait til you can (I think it's 7 or 10 days after you make your account) or ask someone to make one for you.
On March 24 2007 18:24 Last Romantic wrote: I think some wear contacts.
Yeah, I know. I don't wear glasses or contacts, so i'm just wondering if it affects how you play somehow. Obviously most those who wear glasses choose not to, maybe it's just a "look". I just thought that contacts + computer + many many hours = X_X
I guess map makers usually make a thread for a new map? If you can't create a thread yet, either wait til you can (I think it's 7 or 10 days after you make your account) or ask someone to make one for you.
the mapmakers haven't made long explanation yet, because they are beta versions and on testing. they just replied shortly to some questions on their site (mapdori.com) I don't think it needs a new thread.
I guess map makers usually make a thread for a new map? If you can't create a thread yet, either wait til you can (I think it's 7 or 10 days after you make your account) or ask someone to make one for you.
the mapmakers haven't made long explanation yet, because they are beta versions and on testing. they just replied shortly to some questions on their site (mapdori.com) I don't think it needs a new thread.
I was responding to the guy above me who posted his own map.
On March 24 2007 20:35 Equinox_kr wrote: Nemesis is going to let Boxer do his cheesy "lift CC and go to nat and make opponent think he's not there" trick
That was the exact thing I thought when I first looked at that map.
On March 24 2007 20:35 Equinox_kr wrote: Nemesis is going to let Boxer do his cheesy "lift CC and go to nat and make opponent think he's not there" trick
VOD or something of that? I'm kinda new to the Korean SC scene never saw that before ^^
On March 24 2007 20:35 Equinox_kr wrote: Nemesis is going to let Boxer do his cheesy "lift CC and go to nat and make opponent think he's not there" trick
VOD or something of that? I'm kinda new to the Korean SC scene never saw that before ^^
On March 24 2007 20:35 Equinox_kr wrote: Nemesis is going to let Boxer do his cheesy "lift CC and go to nat and make opponent think he's not there" trick
VOD or something of that? I'm kinda new to the Korean SC scene never saw that before ^^
go to sclegacy and look for pimpest plays. I think it's the 2003 edition. you'll see some cool moves there ^^
On March 24 2007 20:35 Equinox_kr wrote: Nemesis is going to let Boxer do his cheesy "lift CC and go to nat and make opponent think he's not there" trick
VOD or something of that? I'm kinda new to the Korean SC scene never saw that before ^^
Even at it is right now, I think Nemesis will offer some nice aggressive games. The rush distances (esp horizontal) and the wide open center is going to present a teetering balance for timing pushes in the middle, since you can reach the opponent main so quickly but you open yourslef up to flanks.
what about CET plz tell me..it will start 31.03 at 15 pm korean time , which is like till ~ 16 hours from now .. then its at 8am tomorrow for me.. is that true ..
EPT
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true story
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(et)
