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On February 01 2013 21:52 Zelniq wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2013 21:50 KAB00000000M wrote:On February 01 2013 21:39 Goladkin wrote:
Stupid cheeser - I hope he will be elminated in ro16, but Stephano should know he will go for cheese - it was just Innovation's only chance to win....eh Only chance to win. Funny how he beat stephano 2 games straight with normal play well 3 factory mass blue flame allin isn't what i'd call normal play neither is double 11 proxy rax nor 6 rax marine/marauder/scv allin but i also dont think allin is his only chance to win..i think his macro play is stronger overall. he likes to do risky builds a lot though
Yeah agree. I also meant the first 2 games were normal play. Not the 2 last ones.
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The best 2 players advanced.
I'm happy to see that Stephano was punished for his poor scouting, in multiple games. I think he's a good player, but when people cut that corner all the time, it just makes my eyes bleed. Hopefully he stops doing that.
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Disappointing to see Stephano cheesed out of GSL, but isn't that the essence of GSL?
One of the things I've always found so alluring about this tournament is that it's the "cutthroat, anything to win" league. If you lose to a 7 pool, no one apologizes. It's a streetfight, not a gentleman's duel.
In other top tier tournaments, it does appear that there's sort of a "let's give 'em a good show!" kind of meta, where both players want to play late game and really showcase big, impressive starcraft.
Then there's GSL, where you're just as likely to get proxy rax'd or 7pooled as Gold league. I wish the foreign star had won, but I love what makes GSL what it is; these guys play to win.
I'll still be watching, because I *really* want this to be the Bomber's hour. But it's sad to see the final GSL of WoL have someone like b4 advance and no Stephano (no offense b4).
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in my opinnion innovation is a big underrated progamer...
also i would say: Stephano and Innovation will advance! :D
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On February 01 2013 23:11 Crownlol wrote:
Disappointing to see Stephano cheesed out of GSL, but isn't that the essence of GSL?
One of the things I've always found so alluring about this tournament is that it's the "cutthroat, anything to win" league. If you lose to a 7 pool, no one apologizes. It's a streetfight, not a gentleman's duel.
In other top tier tournaments, it does appear that there's sort of a "let's give 'em a good show!" kind of meta, where both players want to play late game and really showcase big, impressive starcraft.
Then there's GSL, where you're just as likely to get proxy rax'd or 7pooled as Gold league. I wish the foreign star had won, but I love what makes GSL what it is; these guys play to win.
In my opinion, "cheesed out" doesn't apply to proffesional players at this level. If someone manages to beat another Code S player with a 6-pool, then he outplayed him. There is no excuses.
Because at Code S level, you know all the tools, strategies and styles your opponent has at dispossal. Particulary in TvZ, every terran is totally aware of how strong Stephano is when he reaches infestors or when he plays confortably, so is natural to think in some heavy drop play or all-ins (cheese if necessary) to prevent him to reach his best spot. And I'm sure that Stephano, as Code S level, did know about that possibility.
He did know that and still lose. Simple: he got outplayed.
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In my opinion, "cheesed out" doesn't apply to proffesional players at this level. If someone manages to beat another Code S player with a 6-pool, then he outplayed him. There is no excuses.
Because at Code S level, you know all the tools, strategies and styles your opponent has at dispossal. Particulary in TvZ, every terran is totally aware of how strong Stephano is when he reaches infestors or when he plays confortably, so is natural to think in some heavy drop play or all-ins (cheese if necessary) to prevent him to reach his best spot. And I'm sure that Stephano, as Code S level, did know about that possibility.
He did know that and still lose. Simple: he got outplayed
I think stating that he simply got outplayed is a little silly i understand this is just ur opnion but this annoys me alot if someone 2 Rax's you its a cheese plain an simple u hold or u dont thats fine but stating he gets out played because he didnt drone scout (btw drone scout may not of found it as it was outside of 3rd not actually there an the usal check is 3rd then back to base or tower 3rd base).
But to say he got outplayed i find silly. If u want to say he made bad choices an the terran out thought stephano i would agree he went the same bulid every game an the terran ideintifed this an beat him using the information he had gathered and realised in the game. Know not to say this is an excuse for stephano but i very much doubt he is the kind of player to sit down an watch 5-10 games of his oppents matches (where is in genral koreans do this more) an this gives u insight into these kind of things for instance i cant rember the last time when i saw stephano baneling bust or go pool + gas rather then 4 queen.
but at the end of the day the best 2 players advanced.
(stephano could of punished no bunker on the natural for all four games btw XD).
P.S 2 rax is very hard to identifie dont know if u play zerg but 13/14 drone is needed to scout
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I think it's more accurate to say that Stephano got out-strategized. For Pro players, you play to win, anything goes. You wouldn't see Lebron not attack a smaller player in the post just because it's not nice. If there's a weakness, you attack it, plain and simple.
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On February 02 2013 01:14 charliezz10 wrote:Show nested quote +In my opinion, "cheesed out" doesn't apply to proffesional players at this level. If someone manages to beat another Code S player with a 6-pool, then he outplayed him. There is no excuses.
Because at Code S level, you know all the tools, strategies and styles your opponent has at dispossal. Particulary in TvZ, every terran is totally aware of how strong Stephano is when he reaches infestors or when he plays confortably, so is natural to think in some heavy drop play or all-ins (cheese if necessary) to prevent him to reach his best spot. And I'm sure that Stephano, as Code S level, did know about that possibility.
He did know that and still lose. Simple: he got outplayed I think stating that he simply got outplayed is a little silly i understand this is just ur opnion but this annoys me alot if someone 2 Rax's you its a cheese plain an simple u hold or u dont thats fine but stating he gets out played because he didnt drone scout (btw drone scout may not of found it as it was outside of 3rd not actually there an the usal check is 3rd then back to base or tower 3rd base). But to say he got outplayed i find silly. If u want to say he made bad choices an the terran out thought stephano i would agree he went the same bulid every game an the terran ideintifed this an beat him using the information he had gathered and realised in the game. Know not to say this is an excuse for stephano but i very much doubt he is the kind of player to sit down an watch 5-10 games of his oppents matches (where is in genral koreans do this more) an this gives u insight into these kind of things for instance i cant rember the last time when i saw stephano baneling bust or go pool + gas rather then 4 queen. but at the end of the day the best 2 players advanced. (stephano could of punished no bunker on the natural for all four games btw XD). P.S 2 rax is very hard to identifie dont know if u play zerg but 13/14 drone is needed to scout
Well, I was pointing a general opinion, not only reffering to that match (because yes, using just one match to say he got outplayed is silly). Also yes, I play Zerg and I know what you say. But anyways, I think, as striderxxx said, he got out-strategized. And I think, as you say, that at the end of the game the best 2 players advanced.
To me this is just a drawback from Stephano. This is his first GSL, I'm totally sure he will do better next time, he has plenty potential to go further.
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"He deserved to win, he was cheesed out of a rightful victory" is not an excuse. You don't think people cheesed SaviOr or Flash all the time?
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On February 01 2013 22:51 ineversmile wrote:
The best 2 players advanced.
I'm happy to see that Stephano was punished for his poor scouting, in multiple games. I think he's a good player, but when people cut that corner all the time, it just makes my eyes bleed. Hopefully he stops doing that. Yeah his scouting was really poor, even I (I am plat) when I would see 4 rax in a wall would be very carefull of possible mass attack with bio, so Stephano should be aware and ready for that possiblity. He has great macro games, but why he always play like the opponent wouldnt cheese him?? I dont understand.
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ive seen plenty of "cheese" builds held off this season alone. quit crying stephano fans boys. :D
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So is stephano completely out yet? I wasn't able to watch past his match vs innovation.
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Innovation's play was far from cheese. his multitasking in game one of the first seris was remarkable late game play with mass drops he was able to take the lead and get the better econ after being behind for some time and then he just kept trading units for the win. his play was very mvpish as he used various builds to punish stephano's predicabilty and lack of scouting. that rax all in seemed the perfect counter to stephano's build because of how late he was always getting a baneling nest. At the same time stepano proved he has the mechanics and skill to belong in code S. he was better then hack by far and even better then bogus but he just didnt have the mind games down that come in code s that you really cant learn untill you experence it.
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He lost 1-4 to Innovation (0-2, 1-2) and people dare to say he didn't get outplayed...
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CHeese or no Stephano got destroyed by Bogus. U can't really say a player "outplayed/destroyed/owned etc" assume 100% perfect macro play, what matters is the overall score.
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It's probably worth noting that Stephano went out with a total map score of 3-4 w/l. That's the best map score of any player who got knocked out this round. Aside from Creator, who holds the same map score.
On February 02 2013 05:59 Kassokilleri2ff wrote:
So is stephano completely out yet? I wasn't able to watch past his match vs innovation.
Yeah he's out of code s, but you'll be able to watch him in code a whenever that starts.
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On February 01 2013 22:51 ineversmile wrote:
The best 2 players advanced.
I'm happy to see that Stephano was punished for his poor scouting, in multiple games. I think he's a good player, but when people cut that corner all the time, it just makes my eyes bleed. Hopefully he stops doing that.
i agree stephano didnt show good scouting and thus deserved his loss. you can make overseers and at LEAST check front with lings, station a ling at the front and he did none of that, he didnt scout with any drones early game. he then made a very poor decision bringing drones to the barracks when he should have just saced the natural and tried to make it work.
def typical zerg "standard ladder build beats most" mentality being played which depresses me since stephanos so good
also to those who are like "he cheesed stephano waaa. did you see the first set? stephano got outplayed SO hard by multi tasking, innovations a monster
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EPT
