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warhound looks awful, i hope they change the model and remove his auto aim lasers.
battle hellion needs to be an upgrade or/and unlocked with armory or something.marauder/hellion is strong enough, put a battle before the hellion and you start to smell the allins.
viper is ridiculous in his current state.
swarm host looks so damn good but has the same weakness like broods infestors "wol ultras"they do shit on their own
hydras speed should be lair or unlocked wit infestation or something.hive is just to late
tempest looks fine i don't mine the range when the dps is so low.seems to add a nice dynamic to toss.
oracle has a great design i like the idea but its seems hard to balance this unit.
i like the mothership/core, and also gives some nice scouting infos like if he is building it on 2base he will probably not going take a 3th very soon.
but i wonder the core becomes the mothership so if you build it can you then start the next core?
also where are the interviews with dustin/kim? :D
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Finally, the Hydralisk has a new upgrade that allows them to move faster while not on creep.
This made me so happy. Nice changes overall. The recall abuses potential looks scary, but this is ofcourse way too early to say anything constructive.
I'm very very very excited about all this ! :D
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Good God people, just go play BW if you want to!!!!!
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This will be a total different game from wing of liberty!
It will be exciting to watch the professional players evolving the game 
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I think I'll switch back to Protoss, or play some non-competitive random style
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On June 11 2012 23:29 Evergrowth wrote:This will be a total different game from wing of liberty! It will be exciting to watch the professional players evolving the game
Yes totally.
Also, I think that playing it at a lower level will be much funnier thanks to the additionnal diversity, and thus "crazyness", that will be added to SC2.
It really makes me want to switch to random and play casually, instead of playing one race on Masters and working hard to stay there (got a job and other big passions, its hard to stay on masters with almost no practice, but the game is not fun enough at low level for my person. Old schoold nerd here).
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Other features we have planned for around the time of launch include a groups and clans system; multilanguage support; Global Play, to allow players to play on different regional servers; and unranked matchmaking, so players can try playing different races or test new strategies without impacting their ladder ranking...
W00T no more buying smurfs!!!
I really love the intense love they are showing for the modding community, also.
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I don't want to say that Terran got the worst units, it's impossible to say before i've even played the game, but I do however feel that Terran got the most boring units by far.
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You know what the problem with these changes are? None of them look fun to play, and they just rape the concept of good game design.
Going to lose because of poor unit positioning? Fuck that, never again. Just pull his tanks to their death, or recall your army.
Being punished for not defending your nexus? Fuck that, just warp over your entire goddamned army, or just make it invisible.
Lose because your ability to scout and infer is poor? Fuck that, just scan his building and make EXACTLY what you need. Or just build a range 22 unit that serves as a mobile watch tower with a big fucking gun.
Step on a minefield? Fuck that, since the explosion is about a minute away, just leisurely relocate the affected units. No harm done.
Can't micro? Fuck that, just build a handful of units that spawn free units that can attack everything -- set it and forget it. Or build a range 22 ship you never even have to make leave home base, because it can already shoot across the entire fucking map.
Bad economy because you didn't make enough workers and kept supply blocking? Fuck that, just never let your opponent mine from any base ever again, who needs economy anyway?
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On June 09 2012 06:31 GuitarBizarre wrote:
I'm so, so very sad they're changing vortex. I hope that gets reverted back eventually. How can Blizzard possibly deny us things like that epic MVP vs Squirtle Archon toilet?
Because it's the gimmicky be all end all composition that Protoss can use to win any game they're behind in. It's not OP, mind you, there are are ways to deal with it. But it's so coin flippy and really doesn't add much to the game, punishing Terrans for successfully trying something new and Zergs for playing the game correctly. I like the direction they took this.
Anyhow, Funday Monday is going to take it to another level on HotS 
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Archonte toilet was probably the worst thing in Starcraft 2 (and I'm protoss), I'm really glad they removed this possibility and try to give others way for the protoss to counter zerg late game units.
Now protoss will probably vortex the ground army (infestators, swarm host, hydras) and kill the BL with their tempests what is really strong to be honest. The BL will only have corruptor to defend them and corruptors have 5 range vs 22 range tempest.
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So let's see, Protoss get two new units (including flying caster) and a caster structure, Zerg get two new units (including flying caster), and Terran, if DB's "widow mines aren't for pro play" comment is to be believed, get Warhounds. The unit with the lowest skill ceiling in the entire game. God forbid T ever gets new fun tricks to play with, and then Blizz has to come up with even more new ideas for Z and P, huh?
Like: Battlecruiser speed, Thor kept, Viper (look and play), Swarm Host (look and play), Hydralisk speed, Overseer kept, Changeling distance, Mothership Core, pre-Destructible rocks, obviously any visual improvements.
On the fence: Tempest (onoes 22 range, if only they could, like, bring it down through a patch if that turned out OP, or something! - I'd just rather they made Carriers play like this, instead), Oracle, Battle hellion, everything else that's not under Dislike.
Dislike: Warhound (another A-click unit, and its model is still horrendous), Reaper (nonsense upgrade + loss of speed + loss of building harass = what's the point?), Viper Mine (needs to be actually worth building).
Over-all it could have been a lot worse, but probably a lot better, too.
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On June 12 2012 11:38 pure.Wasted wrote:
So let's see, Protoss get two new units (including flying caster) and a caster structure, Zerg get two new units (including flying caster), and Terran, if DB's "widow mines aren't for pro play" comment is to be believed, get Warhounds. The unit with the lowest skill ceiling in the entire game. God forbid T ever gets new fun tricks to play with, and then Blizz has to come up with even more new ideas for Z and P, huh?
Like: Battlecruiser speed, Thor kept, Viper (look and play), Swarm Host (look and play), Hydralisk speed, Overseer kept, Changeling distance, Mothership Core, pre-Destructible rocks, obviously any visual improvements.
On the fence: Tempest (onoes 22 range, if only they could, like, bring it down through a patch if that turned out OP, or something! - I'd just rather they made Carriers play like this, instead), Oracle, Battle hellion, everything else that's not under Dislike.
Dislike: Warhound (another A-click unit, and its model is still horrendous), Reaper (nonsense upgrade + loss of speed + loss of building harass = what's the point?), Viper Mine (needs to be actually worth building).
Over-all it could have been a lot worse, but probably a lot better, too.
Reaper loss of speed, well, how many actually got that upgrade other then as a gimmick or cause "ive seen QXC and Thorzain do it a few times". Its not commonly used at all therefore I applaud an attempt in getting a upgrade that will be used in. Either that or get speed back to rax tech, at fact its pretty useless.
Warhound, I agree. Looks terrible and uninteresting but then again, I dont want a war of casters either so adding some regular units is imo very good and hopefully they can balance battlehellions and warhounds so that mech is viable in all MUs.
Widow mine... if DB have said its not for pro level then fuck it.. why add units that they already claim wont work at the top? Thats pretty dumb imo. There are tons of custom maps etc to play around with, let the actual game be balanced for the very top please.. its supposed to be an e-sport.
Tempest 22 range. I myself like this alot (I am not a protoss) not that I think it dont have the possibility of being silly OP, I just like the idea of adding unique units with something completly unseen.
Hydra speed!!! Finally! But please, not at hive tech. Id rather have a weaker hydra with earlier speed. Lets make zerg zergish!
And I must ask, "even more" tricks for Z and P? how have terran been left out in the tricks departement before?. From what I can see theres been a pretty equal amount of trickery from all races.
All in all, im optimistic, it looks like it can be fun to play but I do feel they could have added something more for terran, or switch out the widow mine. Terran probably have the most complete/fun unit selection in WoL but here they have definatly been left behind abit.
Lets remember that the Beta hasnt even started yet. ALOT can happen and any sort of balance discussion is obviously premature since the units have yet to be actually balanced :p. Hope I get to try the beta!
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On June 11 2012 16:08 seanious wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2012 02:30 Excstazy wrote:
Toss on the other hand with the mothership core's teleport and energize, Tempest's retarded range and dmg
Have you or anyone else complaining about the Tempest watched the match report video? It looked to me like the Tempest doesn't do much DPS at all; it was more or less just nibbling on the Zerg units and buildings.
it doesnt do alot of damage. its 22 vs air and 33 vs ground iirc. and its a slow slow attackspeed. They cant really make it a heavy hitter without reducing the range to something more siegetankish Id say.
22range with slow speed slow attackspeed and "weak attacks".. sounds fine to me =) i do realize that 33dmg isnt superlittle but for 300-300 its definatly not alot compared to many other units :p
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On June 12 2012 00:57 M7Jagger wrote:
I don't want to say that Terran got the worst units, it's impossible to say before i've even played the game, but I do however feel that Terran got the most boring units by far.
Id say thats a pretty objective truth :p. they should definatly scrap widowmine and add something else again.. I liked the shredder.
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Alright as a random player, I feel less biased when it comes to balance and what not so here's my two cents.
Zerg
I LOVE the return of hydralisks as a viable unit. Too many mass roach compositions made ZvP pretty dull and repetitive. Im ecstatic about this buff.
I like the viper a lot. It will be pretty standard unit in all matchups, with the cloud being more effective vs Terran, and the abduct ability being better against Protoss. The new consume-esque ability is pretty awesome, but could be slightly OP. (Using extra evo-chambers as walls/a way to gain energy. I have to say that Abduct looks a bit stupid, but it's a way to pull apart the Protoss deathball I guess.
I think the swarm host really fits the "disposable units" mentality that Zerg has. Im happy that they were nerfed a bit since the first reveal, and I think burrowing them at separate times to create a constant flow of free locusts to annoy, and eventually draw turtling players out of their base can be used as a pretty interesting trap mechanic. I would probably be more excited for the lurker, but the swarm host is still pretty cool.
Ultralisks do NOT need the burrow charge. Ultra/ling/infestor already can dominate the late game. I'll admit that the ultralisks pathfinding sucks, but if you're struggling using ultras, you're probably engaging in ultra-stupid chokes, or allowing yourself to be kited by not supplementing infestors.
Side note: Giving banelings a burrow move upgrade would be SO OP. It would force all three races to invest in static or mobile detection, and just be dumbing down the game. You should have the foresight to place banelings in common attack paths and routes, and it would take far less skill to be able to move them.
I think making mech a viable option in TvP is awesome, but the transformer units bother me design wise. I would prefer the Goliath returning with a range upgrade to be a colossus/tempest counter/brood lord counter (rather than investing in Vikings (who are too expensive and fragile to fight on the ground after the air threats are gone) and maybe a stimless "heavy firebat" from a tech labbed barracks.
The war hound is the robust ground unit Terran needs to fight the notorious protoss death-ball, but I dislike the design a lot. It has potential to make TvT a much shorter matchup. I like the idea, just not the look.
An idea I had would be to make widow mines deployable by ghosts. They look really awkward running around by themselves, and rushing to widow mines early could contain a Protoss that has no detection. Zerg players can sacrifice cheap zerglings to destroy mines, but Protoss players have all expensive tier 1 units, so contains would be too easy. This would make a Terran need to get a ghost academy to use the mine, thus making the potentially overpowered min
The Battle cruiser has needed a buff for awhile. The dps and mobility have both been far to weak to make a difference in combat, and usually if you are engaging an enemy with battle cruisers it's a one way trip. Red line reactor may look a bit silly, but it makes sense.
Let me start by saying I like the idea of combat drugs, but it doesn't suit the reaper and the reapers strength. The point of a reaper is to be quick and agile while harassing, not to be more to robust. If I was making the decision, I would make the reaper build as fast as it originally did, and make nitro packs available without the factory, and just take 20 or so seconds longer to research.
Protoss has some decent additions. I can definitely see the oracle being a huge pain in the ass, but the final cost and build time will be the biggest deciding factor on whether they are cost effective or not. The mothership core looks interesting, but I'd have to see it in action first. The tempest is going to be controversial, but the low dps and high cost make the long range not so overpowered imho.
That's my two cents, either way im excited as hell and ready for the release
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Tempest is so expensive and low dps. Will anyone really use it ?
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Anyone know what happend to the David Kim interview Kennigit was planning to do?
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I honestly cannot understand the choice of making a "Widow Mine".
They removed the Lurker from the Zerg arsenal and gave it to the Terran (Hellion, only its cheaper and easier to make than the Lurker). They removed the Scourge from the Zerg arsenal and are giving it to the Terran (Widow Mine, only it doesnt require you to "hit" the unit you want to kill, they just have to get close and it sticks instantly to them).
"Won't be used in pro level"... are you freaking kidding me?
Now of course there can be very limited uses of the Widow Mine in TvZ and TvT. When faced against and huge army of zerglings or marines is it really worth it to spend 75min25gas to kill a single unit (assuming at the pro level they can seperate affected units quickly)? No it wont be worth it. Late game where more expensive units are moving around, then maybe.
But to have a guaranteed kill of a Stalker or Sentry? You get back more than what you invested. Even if it "only" hits a Zealot you'll still come close to even (75min25gas vs 100min). Not exactly even but close. And thats still assuming perfect micro where you can move the affected unit out of the group.
Simply put the Widow Mine is a "burrowed baneling" that has a reasonably big range that is specifically designed to counter armies made up of individually expensive units (assuming perfect pro level micro).
What can Protoss armies be described as? armies made up of individually expensive units.
I forsee Widow Mines being used in (almost) every single TvP.
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Why people are raging about the Tempest's 22 range? It have slow DPS and range is upgrade. Personally I'am more concerned about zerg's Viper with it's abduction skill. It gives the zerg way too much crowd control. You just pull colossus/thor from the army and you have basically lost the backbone of the army. Especially protoss' army and terran's mech build. Blizzard have thought about these things.
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EPT
