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[GSL] Code S - Week Two Begins

Forum Index > News
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[GSL] Code S - Week Two Begins

Text byWaxangel
Graphics byMeko
January 16th, 2012 00:29 GMT
  • GSL on Liquipedia
  • Strategy Spotlight with MouzMorroW
  • Code S, Group E Preview

Strategy Spotlight: Leenock's Offensive Hatchery


By: mouzMorrow



When Leenock and MC faced off for the final RO16 ticket in group B, Leenock came out with a surprising offensive Hatchery build. Mousesport's Stefan "MorroW" Andersson offered his insights on this unorthodox strategy.


Player Style

Before we get into the build itself, let's take a look at the player behind the build. Leenock is quite a control based player in general which means he wants to force the game to be played on his own terms. Leenock uses a variety of methods to make his opponent play in situations that they are uncomfortable in, while they are completely normal situations for Leenock himself. Most of the time, this kind of tactic leads to the controlling player (Leenock) knowing exactly what to do and how the timings will play out, while the opponent is uncomfortable and less capable of dealing with the unfamiliar timings. On top of that, it restricts the opponent's choices and builds from the beginning of the game.

Now, this game happened to be against MC, who is actually very much alike Leenock in this regard – amplifying this factor even more.

This style can be weak when you are playing someone who is very good at scouting and adapting. Players who are good at improvising and/or who have a lot of knowledge of the game (encyclopedic knowledge of builds and proper reactions to each one) just can't be thrown off that easily.


The Zerg Build and Underlying Idea

So onto the build itself.

[image loading]
A simple concept.



The objective is to go Hatchery first in the opponent's natural, get a Queen out to put down a Creep Tumor right after it builds, and use that tumor to delay the Protoss expansion by a ridiculous amount of time. You make Zerglings from the offensive Hatchery to protect the Queen as well as defend the tumor while it is visible. However, they are also produced to simply harass and distract the Protoss from realizing that your big picture strategy actually is the creep tumor itself.

If you are Protoss and see a bunch of eggs spawning in your natural you will most likely spend all your time thinking about and dealing with that, rather than think about the Creep Tumor that's really going to hurt you in the future. Hence, the Zerglings are a distraction.

In short, here's the best case scenario for Zerg: You get your creep tumor down, you kill a few probes, Zerglings run around being annoying for a LONG time in the Protoss main before the eventual Stalker comes out to kill them.

(On a side note, having scouting Zerglings alive in the Protoss main in the case of success is crucial. Because if you succeed, the Protoss will naturally want to retaliate with very drastic measures. Two Stargate or DT rush are natural responses here, as the Creep Tumor will only block the natural, but not delay tech.)

Anyway, if everything goes right, you'll have two bases, queens at home, and be in a pretty stable situation. In the meanwhile, Protoss is completely f***ed – if I might put it that way – and perhaps be in a situation he's never been in before.


Why the Build Didn't Work

The reason it ended up looking silly or bad on Leenock's part was because A) MC knew exactly what was going on from past experience and knew the proper response, or B) he was just stellar at improvising on the fly. Or perhaps C) a combination of both.


Protoss Though Process and Adaptation

Here's what MC did in response.

[image loading]
One good turn deserves another.

First, he Pylon blocked the Zerg natural. This is a pretty obvious move, as Zerg had invested a ton of money in an offensive Hatchery, Queen, and Zerglings. By forcing an additional four Zerglings just to be able to expand, you make him very low-econ indeed. Of course, Zerg expects it, because it's an obvious move. It's just part of the 'dance' if you will.

With his Nexus blocked, MC continued to tech well, getting his Gateway, Gas, and Cybernetics Core without missing a beat. Even if a tumor didn't go down, the remaining creep from the Hatchery was still going to delay his Nexus for a little while, so spending his money on tech wasn't going to delay his Nexus timing in the future.

He Chronoboosted out a Zealot to help deal with whatever came out of the eggs, and kill off the Hatchery faster. Also, by boosting out a quick 2~3 Zealots, he would be able to counter-attack the Zerg later like in an ordinary Forge fast expand game (where they achieve the same goals of scouting a possible Zerg all-in, or forcing an economy focused Zerg to make defensive units).

MC put Probes on his ramp as well, completely blocking it off. He knew whatever came out of the eggs wanted to cause chaos inside his main base, and it was important to stop it. Also, cutting off the ramp just gave him better control of the situation in general. You could think of it as sealing off a water leak and limiting it to a small area, so it's easier to focus on and gives you better control of the situation.



[image loading]
A rather unusual containment.

Now the absolute, most crucial part of MC's reaction might have been the least obvious part: He knew exactly when Leenock's Queen was going to pop out of the hatchery. He knew that he HAD to surround it, and kill it before it could move to put down a tumor outside of the Photon Cannon's detection range. Right as the Queen popped out, he surrounded it with Zealots and Probes, and killed it off before it could achieve its goal.



[image loading]
Incredible timing.

[image loading]
Threat neutralized.

The Result of MC's Successful Defense

There's not much to talk about the mid-game of this match because realistically speaking, everything was pretty much settled in the early game. Even so, here are some notes on why MC decided to follow-up with a Warpgate push off two bases instead of going for other options.

It mostly came down to math, with MC just having a huge pure economic and production advantange. There's no real way around mass Warpgate style for Zerg except to basically have more stuff. With such a big advantage in creating an army, MC knew that there was no real way Leenock could win if he just made a lot of Warpgate units. MC was thinking 'You can't take three base and be greedy (which Zerg often likes to do to catch up), you can't two base all-in with Nydus or something goofy because I'm going to have so much stuff none of that will work. You can't really just adapt to my mass Warpgate with Spines and units because again, you don't have a strong enough foundation to play on even grounds with me.'



[image loading]
A stroll in the park.


If MC had gone for a different follow-up, it's possible he could have been coin-flip countered. For example, if he gone for Dual Stargates, and Leenock had countered perfectly with several Spore Crawlers and Queens, then the game might have become even again.

MC didn't even have to kill Leenock with his Warpgate rush. If Leenock happened to make enough defenses, then MC could just play for a longer macro game with an even bigger economic and technological advantage.


Bonus: Map Considerations

Looking at the map pool, you can see why Leenock choose to employ this strategy on ESV Cloud Kingdom instead of some of the other two player maps.

Leenock loves to do regular mass unit all-ins, first of all, and Bel'Shir Beach and Dual Sight are pretty good maps for those. Both maps have two, equal distance attack routes which makes scouting the all-in much harder. Also, both maps are quite tough to wall-in on, and Leenock did in fact end up using a Baneling all-in to exploit a weakness in MC's wall on Bel'Shir. In comparison, the three building full-wall available on Cloud Kingdom on top of the overall layout in the natural makes it very easy to defend Zerg all-ins.

As for Daybreak, the distance between bases is quite long in general. You would have to send your drone earlier – a very big deal – and it makes the strategy less practical.

Overall, it wasn't so much the offensive hatchery strategy being a strong strategy on Cloud Kingdom as much as regular all-ins being weak on it.

Bonus II: Further Map Considerations

by iamke55

It's highly unlikely that MC will have run into this build order on the ladder. When you run into proxy Hatch on the ladder, it is usually a reactionary build where the Zerg player opened with some standard Pool first opening, then built their Hatchery at the opponent's natural as a response to seeing a forge. However, Leenock’s build order was Hatchery first, then Spawning Pool. Leenock sent his drone blind, knowing MC would go for a Forge FE on Cloud Kingdom.

Now look at the ladder map pool. On Xel’Naga Caverns, you probably will not use this build because Protoss usually avoids forge FE. On Metalopolis and Shattered Temple in close air positions, you might be able to see Protoss’ base in time with the scouting Overlord to do this build. All other maps have multiple possibilities for spawning locations, so you can’t use Leenock’s build on those at all. We know from watching MC at MLG events that he uses gateway openings on Xel’Naga Caverns and Metalopolis. Hence, it is highly unlikely that MC ever ran into this build on ladder! Ladder maps only allow for the Pool first version. The fact that MC was able to defend so well against a build he probably never encountered on the ladder is a testament to either his foresight for practicing against it in custom games, or his crisis management for figuring out and countering Leenock’s plan on the spot.



Code S, Group E Preview


By: waxangel

The group with John's favorite player.

Group E: (T)SlayerS_MMA, (T)FXOGuMiho, (Z)SlayerS_YuGiOh, (Z)Liquid`Zenio

First, let's go through this group from MMA's perspective. He's the last GSL champion, so I think you guys can forgive this preview being a little single player-centric.

When you look at the results sheet, it might look like Mvp was on the brink of being knocked out of Code S last week. It might look like the new Code S system has assured only the very best players get in, and that even the RO32 doesn't offer any safety for the top players. It might look like the other Terran titan, SlayerS_MMA, could be in for a hard time.

Nah, it's not like that. If you look at the content of Mvp's games, he wasn't really in that much trouble. Nestea's casual decision to be a good player again complicated matters, but Mvp was still clearly going to beat IdrA and Lucky. In MMA's case, he's better than all three players in his group. Barring circumstances that are even more unusual than Nestea's "I'm back, let's never talk about fourth quarter 2011 ever again" comeback, MMA should have an easy time.

His round one opponent is GuMiho, a ridiculously good player who conveniently has a TvT Achilles heel. If not for his TvT, GuMiho could be championship caliber. He still needs to prove he can control his nerves on the GSL stage and that he can prepare for matches with the meticulousness required in GSL, but the raw skill he's shown in AoL, WCG, and limited GSL games show that he could win it all one day. On that note, he will probably wipe the floor with the other two guys in his group. However, since he hasn't yet learned to play TvT at a super high level, MMA will walk over him. The X-factor is that Gumiho may have had some kind of incredible TvT breakthrough in the past few weeks, but that's a pretty unlikely window for drastic match-up improvement in pro-gaming.

Yugioh is the King of Code A, an honor that's also a somewhat back-handed compliment. He has the consistency to stay in Code A constantly, and recently found a way to break through the Up and Down matches. However, upon gaining access to Code S, MMA unceremoniously booted his teammate back to his lesser kingdom. Yugioh actually did surprisingly okay against MMA last season, but that's not saying much. The best TvZ player in the world looked completely in control, and it's likely he's just going to crush him again if they meet. With the format changing to best two of three, there's not even the chance of using a well-planned all-in to steal an upset. Even if Yugioh improved a lot since we've last seen him, it's hard to think that will be enough to take down MMA.

That leaves us with Liquid`Zenio, the Code S stalwart. RO16 isn't enough to retain Code S in the new system, but Zenio survived his Up-Down test to retain Code S for the time being. Zenio's always been said to suffer from nervousness in the GSL. The fact that he's managed to stay in Code S despite playing below his potential is supposed to suggest that he can be a championship caliber player if he takes care of all of his mentality problems. I can see a bit of that from his stream, but even if he is playing 100%, I don't think he has a chance against MMA. MMA simply plays TvZ on an absurd level, where it's doubtful if any Zerg player can beat him in a lengthy series.

So, obviously (I hope) MMA will take first place in this group. Let's back off from the defending champion (or is that Jjakji?) and look at who might take second place. Gumiho is the best bet with his incredible TvZ, and the the BO3 format offers further protection against shock losses to Zerg all-ins. Yugioh and Zenio are both veterans who haven't had much skill fluctuation in their GSL careers so far, but Zenio is a better upset bet as he's made it to the RO8 once, and he's taken games off championship class players now and then. Of course, he might just lose to Yugioh straight up, since it's ZvZ after all.

Prediction:

MMA > Gumiho
Zenio > Yugioh
MMA > Zenio
Gumiho > Yugioh
Gumiho > Zenio

MMA and Gumiho advance.
















Art by Fishuu



Writers: iamke55, mouzMorroW and Waxangel.
Graphics and Art: Meko and Pony Tales (disciple and Lip the Pencilboy).
Editor: WaxAngel
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AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
YipCraft
Profile Joined July 2011
United States216 Posts
January 16 2012 00:31 GMT
#2
I'm confused as to why the zealot is sad now..
The Final Boss
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1839 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 00:35:18
January 16 2012 00:34 GMT
#3
Gogo MMA!

I'm not sure if Zenio will be able to beat GuMiho and I'm pretty sure his ZvT isn't at the level to beat MMA. That being said Zenio's gosu ZvZ might be able to take out YuGioh, so who knows?
Kznn
Profile Joined March 2011
Brazil9072 Posts
January 16 2012 00:34 GMT
#4
That queen surround timming was stelar. Mc played that like a boss.

And I really hope zenio advances today =)
HaruRH
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Singapore2780 Posts
January 16 2012 00:34 GMT
#5
On January 16 2012 09:31 AWOT wrote:
I'm confused as to why the zealot is sad now..


Because there are no Protoss in this group
It is fucking D4 and you are still alive as a CONFIRMED FUCKING TOWN. This is how fucking terrible scum thinks you are - Koshi
tabbott26
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom379 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 00:36:16
January 16 2012 00:35 GMT
#6
Great write up, really looking forward to this group!

EDIT: Really hope Zenio can make it too. Liquid fighting!
EGHuK - EGIdra - EGDeMuslim - MVPGenius - Liquid'Sheth - ROOTKiwikaki
MrCash
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1504 Posts
January 16 2012 00:36 GMT
#7
If a terran wins this GSL, I request the next GSL's poster image be a marine that just doesn't give a hoot and never complains about balance or meta game or cheese, he wins no matter what.
Olinimm
Profile Joined November 2011
1471 Posts
January 16 2012 00:38 GMT
#8
Wow, that's a really great idea with the strategy highlight. Hope you guys do more of those.
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
January 16 2012 00:41 GMT
#9
Morrow so smart. GSL analysis from a GSL player. #esports
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
OneWhoIsMany
Profile Joined May 2010
Canada292 Posts
January 16 2012 00:41 GMT
#10
Love the strategy highlight of the game of MC vs Leenock, great writeup
DYEAlabaster
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
Canada1009 Posts
January 16 2012 00:44 GMT
#11
The Zealot is sad because there are no Toss in the group.... right?

Anyway, MMA first, for sure.

Other than that, Gumiho most likely, but it really depends on how good Zenio decides to be today.
bbm
Profile Joined April 2011
United Kingdom1320 Posts
January 16 2012 00:45 GMT
#12
On January 16 2012 09:36 MrCash wrote:
If a terran wins this GSL, I request the next GSL's poster image be a marine that just doesn't give a hoot and never complains about balance or meta game or cheese, he wins no matter what.

/dance marine
By.Sun or By.Rain, he always delivers
gosuRabbit
Profile Joined November 2011
United States15 Posts
January 16 2012 00:45 GMT
#13
does anyone have a link to the replay of the game?
weneedjello
Profile Joined April 2011
Canada10 Posts
January 16 2012 00:49 GMT
#14
i don't think gsl releases their replays
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
January 16 2012 00:49 GMT
#15
On January 16 2012 09:36 MrCash wrote:
If a terran wins this GSL, I request the next GSL's poster image be a marine that just doesn't give a hoot and never complains about balance or meta game or cheese, he wins no matter what.


[image loading]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284293
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
NuclearJudas
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
6546 Posts
January 16 2012 00:53 GMT
#16
On January 16 2012 09:31 AWOT wrote:
I'm confused as to why the zealot is sad now..

No Protoss champ (in the GSL) since MC smashed July in march last year. Great write-up as usual, guys.
Life is like Tetris. Your errors pile up but your accomplishments disappear. - Robert Ohlén | http://railroaddiary.wordpress.com/ - My words about stuff.
Chunhyang
Profile Joined December 2011
Bangladesh1389 Posts
January 16 2012 00:53 GMT
#17
Did Leenock invent that strat?
If you could reason with haters, there would be no haters. YGTMYFT
pPingu
Profile Joined September 2011
Switzerland2892 Posts
January 16 2012 00:54 GMT
#18
Nice analysis and really great to read

But why don't we get regular notations? Elephants problems in the writing?

And gogo mma and zenio
-Popsycle-
Profile Joined January 2012
34 Posts
January 16 2012 00:55 GMT
#19
mma #1
Diamond
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States10796 Posts
January 16 2012 01:02 GMT
#20
<3 the player breakdown, please do more of these! Very awesome stuff!
Ballistix Gaming Global Gaming/Esports Marketing Manager - twitter.com/esvdiamond
lbmaian
Profile Joined December 2010
United States689 Posts
January 16 2012 01:03 GMT
#21
Awesome analysis Morrow - really great to see top-tier players give their input on these games to us plebeians.
trinxified
Profile Joined December 2010
Canada7774 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 01:05:06
January 16 2012 01:04 GMT
#22
Any way I can watch that MC vs Leenock game? Either a VOD or a replay?
Soluhwin
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1287 Posts
January 16 2012 01:13 GMT
#23
GOGOGO Zenio and YuGiOh! Zerg pride all the way.
I put the sexy in dyslexia.
Mawi
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden4365 Posts
January 16 2012 01:14 GMT
#24
Awesome Code S week 2 woooho!! cant wait for it
Forever Mirin Zyzz Son of Zeus Brother of Hercules Father of the Aesthetics
Iamportal
Profile Joined January 2011
United States184 Posts
January 16 2012 01:15 GMT
#25
Sweet Analysis! Can't wait for these games!
If you're not attacking, you're probably loosing
Nehtaro
Profile Joined January 2011
United States112 Posts
January 16 2012 01:21 GMT
#26
thanks for writeup ^_^
ArchDC
Profile Joined May 2011
Malaysia1996 Posts
January 16 2012 01:28 GMT
#27
Like the strategy overview!
Eufouria
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom4425 Posts
January 16 2012 01:28 GMT
#28
If MC had never run into that strategy before WTFAFUAHWFUIHFA! How could he have worked out so quickly that the queen laying the tumour was the crux of the build? To extrapolate his past experiences of proxy hatch games into a GSL game on the fly and realise that he needs to surround the queen almost seems too amazing to be true. If it is though... wow that is incredible crisis management.

My match predictions are basically the same, the ZvZ could go either way but MMA is going to go 2-0 and Gumiho is going to win his TvZs and get through 2nd.
Olinimm
Profile Joined November 2011
1471 Posts
January 16 2012 01:31 GMT
#29
On January 16 2012 10:28 Eufouria wrote:
If MC had never run into that strategy before WTFAFUAHWFUIHFA! How could he have worked out so quickly that the queen laying the tumour was the crux of the build? To extrapolate his past experiences of proxy hatch games into a GSL game on the fly and realise that he needs to surround the queen almost seems too amazing to be true. If it is though... wow that is incredible crisis management.

My match predictions are basically the same, the ZvZ could go either way but MMA is going to go 2-0 and Gumiho is going to win his TvZs and get through 2nd.

Yeah it really is incredible how he had such a perfect response in that situation, even if he had seen it before it's still godly crisis management.
OkStyX
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
Canada1199 Posts
January 16 2012 01:36 GMT
#30
MMA simply plays TvZ on an absurd level, where it's doubtful if any Zerg player can beat him in a lengthy series


DRG gave him a run :D
Team Overklocked Gaming! That man is the noblest creature may be inferred from the fact that no other creature has contested this claim. - G.C. Lichtenberg
lichter
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
1001 YEARS KESPAJAIL22272 Posts
January 16 2012 01:37 GMT
#31
On January 16 2012 10:28 Eufouria wrote:
If MC had never run into that strategy before WTFAFUAHWFUIHFA! How could he have worked out so quickly that the queen laying the tumour was the crux of the build? To extrapolate his past experiences of proxy hatch games into a GSL game on the fly and realise that he needs to surround the queen almost seems too amazing to be true. If it is though... wow that is incredible crisis management.

My match predictions are basically the same, the ZvZ could go either way but MMA is going to go 2-0 and Gumiho is going to win his TvZs and get through 2nd.


MC probably figured out that Leenock would not have had enough minerals to fully take advantage of an inject (Leenock needed to get rid of the pylon in his nat) or that an inject would not have made it in time, so there was no real use for a queen other than to make a tumor. It probably became apparent to MC that the hatch wasn't to cause damage because there was no spine crawler and not a lot of lings. Amazing he figured it out.
AdministratorYOU MUST HEED MY INSTRUCTIONS TAKE OFF YOUR THIIIINGS
OdiousTea
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Australia357 Posts
January 16 2012 01:37 GMT
#32
I'm loving the frequency of these write ups. :D
MasterKang
Profile Joined August 2011
United States1373 Posts
January 16 2012 01:38 GMT
#33
Love the analysis, and definitely agree with the predictions too
Players: MMA, Boxer, Ryung, Life, TaeJa, Squirtle, Brown, Dark,
Tur
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil263 Posts
January 16 2012 01:48 GMT
#34
First, let's go through this group from MMA's perspective. He's the last GSL champion, so I think you guys can forgive this preview being a little single player-centric.


Wasn't (T)MMA the champion when the finals were at Blizzcon and (T)Jjakji the actual champion?

Well, I hope MMA advance. Ro16 will be so sick.
bertu
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Brazil871 Posts
January 16 2012 01:58 GMT
#35
That was a really great write-up from MorroW. Hopefully we can see more of that in the future!
SEKO SEKO SEKO
Dubzex
Profile Joined October 2010
United States6994 Posts
January 16 2012 01:58 GMT
#36
I hope Zenio moves on, but his chances look pretty bleak.
"DONT UNDERESTIMATE MY CARRY OR YOU WILL BE CARRIED INTO THE ABYSS OF SUFFERING" - Tyler 'TC' Cook
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
January 16 2012 02:03 GMT
#37
On January 16 2012 10:48 Tur wrote:
Show nested quote +
First, let's go through this group from MMA's perspective. He's the last GSL champion, so I think you guys can forgive this preview being a little single player-centric.


Wasn't (T)MMA the champion when the finals were at Blizzcon and (T)Jjakji the actual champion?

Well, I hope MMA advance. Ro16 will be so sick.


He mentions Jjakji later...so I feel like we've perhaps missed an 'in-joke'? Someone clarify that for me please? =/
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
Pwnographics
Profile Joined January 2011
New Zealand1097 Posts
January 16 2012 02:04 GMT
#38
I'm still amazed out how MC handled it, i.e probe ramp block and knowing exactly how long it takes for a queen to spawn.
Wyrd
Profile Joined May 2011
United States211 Posts
January 16 2012 02:15 GMT
#39
It's stuff like MC's incredible performance that will push me to buying a GSL subscription
www.twitch.tv/wyrd5
Ansinjunger
Profile Joined November 2010
United States2451 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 02:22:29
January 16 2012 02:19 GMT
#40
On January 16 2012 11:03 bittman wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 10:48 Tur wrote:
First, let's go through this group from MMA's perspective. He's the last GSL champion, so I think you guys can forgive this preview being a little single player-centric.


Wasn't (T)MMA the champion when the finals were at Blizzcon and (T)Jjakji the actual champion?

Well, I hope MMA advance. Ro16 will be so sick.


He mentions Jjakji later...so I feel like we've perhaps missed an 'in-joke'? Someone clarify that for me please? =/


It's not about the GSL at Blizzcon but how much Blizzard Cup "counts" as a GSL (hey, the money was still big), whereas Jjakji is the defending code S GSL champion. Polt, sadly for him, seemed to suffer an ignominious fate after the Super Tournament. GSL July began, and it was all about defending champion Nestea, plus that guy who won the ST ^_^

By the way, MC's timing and instinct are really impressive, and micro, as usual. He could probably see the hatchery dancing and the queen making, which probably provided him direction for what to do.
GhandiEAGLE
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States20754 Posts
January 16 2012 02:33 GMT
#41
Zenio for President~~~~
Oh, my achin' hands, from rakin' in grands, and breakin' in mic stands
woobsauce
Profile Joined August 2011
United States491 Posts
January 16 2012 02:34 GMT
#42
Important to note that in the "strategy highlight" that SlayerS_YuGiOh did this offensive hatch successfully vs JYP.
KiLL_ORdeR
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States1518 Posts
January 16 2012 02:38 GMT
#43
Great write-up!

I love Morrow's analysis of Leenock's hatch first on CK. Very insightful and well-written
In order to move forward, we must rid ourselves of that which holds us back. Check out my stream and give me tips! twitch.tv/intotheskyy
Leifish
Profile Joined July 2011
851 Posts
January 16 2012 02:40 GMT
#44
Sick strategy breakdown!
Sumahi
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Guam5609 Posts
January 16 2012 02:41 GMT
#45
I want to one day see Morrow eviscerate MVP in a GSL Finals.

The breakdown of the offensive hatch was very well-written and including some aspects I hadn't even considered. I hope to see Zenio use it tonight (I've seen him use it before).

I am praying for an upset tonight, and that the zergs overpower the Terrans. Yugioh must be in every GSL just because it forces everyone to look up arcane references to card games that many of us wish we never dumped so much money or time into. I only hope a player will come of South Korea whose name is "thegathering" so we can have a downpour of references to that card game.
Startale <3, ST_July <3, HongUn <3, Savior <3, Gretorp <3, Nada <3, Rainbow <3, Ret <3, Squirtle <3, Bomber <3
Zzoram
Profile Joined February 2008
Canada7115 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 02:50:41
January 16 2012 02:48 GMT
#46
MorroW's analysis of MC vs Leenock was excellent. I love reading things like this.

In fact, the last time I saw an analysis like this was Flash vs Mind I think, where Mind was using some brand new build that involved a surprise 2-prong attack and Flash with his epic game sense figured out the perfect counter and made Mind look like a noob. I think it involved a fake attack on the natural to draw Flash out and then a vulture drop on his main minerals, but Flash instead only moved a few units to deal with the natural poke and ran his Tanks back into his main to defend a drop he sensed was coming. Against any other unprepared player, Mind surely would've won.



It goes to show that true champions have a "star sense" that merely good players lack. There is a reason that MC is the only GSL Protoss champion, and a repeat champion at that. He is the best Protoss in the world because he's the only Protoss with "star sense".
Majynx
Profile Joined October 2010
United States1431 Posts
January 16 2012 02:59 GMT
#47
Really enjoyed reading the analysis section by Morrow.

I hope that MMA and Zenio advance on to the next round.
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
January 16 2012 03:02 GMT
#48
I love that strategy analysis, great read.
blacksheepwall
Profile Joined June 2011
China1530 Posts
January 16 2012 03:13 GMT
#49
Great write-up from Morrow. Really informative.

Thanks for this.
(╯°□°)╯︵ ┻━┻ // </3 Taeja
Bagration
Profile Blog Joined October 2011
United States18282 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 03:19:25
January 16 2012 03:18 GMT
#50
Go MMA! I hope either Zenio or Yugioh make it out in 2nd, for the sake of racial diversity and because how can anybody root against Slayers or Liquid?

Good luck Morrow on your own Code A matches as well!
Team Slayers, Axiom-Acer and Vile forever
mutantmagnet
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3789 Posts
January 16 2012 03:31 GMT
#51
Hopefully we get more guest analysis from veteran players. This was a great post-op ed.

Gumioh's games haven't really stood out to me so I'll be more attentive to see if he is even remotely brilliant in TvZ or vP.
Robonord
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States311 Posts
January 16 2012 03:33 GMT
#52
Amazing write up by morrow. I would love to read more of these.
IMLosirA | ST_Bomber | SlayerS_Puzzle
Vansetsu
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1454 Posts
January 16 2012 03:34 GMT
#53
I'm not sold on Gumiho. I agree he's good, and 2nd after MMA to make it out of this group, but I can certainly see Zenio winning any of these games, and if he gets through ZvZ, I see him with a good chance to advance.
Only by overcoming many obstacles does a river become - デイヴィ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ド
Gladiator6
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden7024 Posts
January 16 2012 03:38 GMT
#54
Very nice explination by MorroW, wanna see more of this analysis so badly
Flying, sOs, free, Light, Soulkey & ZerO
stratmatt
Profile Joined April 2011
United States913 Posts
January 16 2012 03:44 GMT
#55
On January 16 2012 11:19 Ansinjunger wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 11:03 bittman wrote:
On January 16 2012 10:48 Tur wrote:
First, let's go through this group from MMA's perspective. He's the last GSL champion, so I think you guys can forgive this preview being a little single player-centric.


Wasn't (T)MMA the champion when the finals were at Blizzcon and (T)Jjakji the actual champion?

Well, I hope MMA advance. Ro16 will be so sick.


He mentions Jjakji later...so I feel like we've perhaps missed an 'in-joke'? Someone clarify that for me please? =/


It's not about the GSL at Blizzcon but how much Blizzard Cup "counts" as a GSL (hey, the money was still big), whereas Jjakji is the defending code S GSL champion. Polt, sadly for him, seemed to suffer an ignominious fate after the Super Tournament. GSL July began, and it was all about defending champion Nestea, plus that guy who won the ST ^_^

By the way, MC's timing and instinct are really impressive, and micro, as usual. He could probably see the hatchery dancing and the queen making, which probably provided him direction for what to do.



I'd say that considering the fact that blizzcup was an invite only tournament and jjakji wasnt invited, that he can still claim to be the defending champion.
DurandaL917
Profile Joined December 2010
United States92 Posts
January 16 2012 04:03 GMT
#56
That strategy spotlight was a great write up. one of my favorites on TL (and that is saying a lot)
we make post and then we defense it
Drowsy
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
United States4876 Posts
January 16 2012 04:05 GMT
#57
Wait... so vs the offensive hatch, couldn't mc just throw up double gateways at his nat, pylon block opponent's nat, and auto-win?
Our Protoss, Who art in Aiur HongUn be Thy name; Thy stalker come, Thy will be blunk, on ladder as it is in Micro Tourny. Give us this win in our daily ladder, and forgive us our cheeses, As we forgive those who play zerg against us.
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37024 Posts
January 16 2012 04:10 GMT
#58
Always looking forward to the write up by the TL staff.

Man I love you guys
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
FuzzyJAM
Profile Joined July 2010
Scotland9300 Posts
January 16 2012 04:12 GMT
#59
GuMiHo is a really tricky player. I honestly wouldn't be surprised to see him come up with some weird strategy to take out MMA. Of course, if he tries to play straight up then, yeah, chances are he's not going to take it - maybe he just decided to concentrate on his TvZ instead of even worrying about beating MMA.
Did you ever say Yes to a single joy?
Sprouter
Profile Joined December 2009
United States1724 Posts
January 16 2012 04:20 GMT
#60
great strategy piece by (Z)MorroW. well done!
Holloworb
Profile Joined November 2011
Norway345 Posts
January 16 2012 04:25 GMT
#61
Im really loving these previews, makes following the GSL so much easier and more exciting. Too bad the matches allways are played when im at work so that im only able to catch the finals every season :/
HyTex
Profile Joined August 2011
United States67 Posts
January 16 2012 04:38 GMT
#62
Saw this idea from a player named |||||||||||| (Barcode) in the EU Playhem Daily 3 or 4 months back.
Bippzy
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States1466 Posts
January 16 2012 04:40 GMT
#63
I don't care about that build review. I'll never forgive MC for striking down leenock. T.T
LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK LEENOCK
iMech
Profile Joined July 2011
United States28 Posts
January 16 2012 05:04 GMT
#64
I appreciated the shout out to Catz since he proxy hatches in the main against Protoss frequently. It really does take a lot of resources and effort for a Protoss to shut it down and typically leaves the zerg ahead, especially if you can get a cancel on the hatch after a (now wasted) cannon completes.
Condor Hero
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States2931 Posts
January 16 2012 05:18 GMT
#65
MC is a fucking boss, he might have the best crisis management of all of progaming.
KiNGxXx
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
7928 Posts
January 16 2012 05:21 GMT
#66
Great (p)review and big thanks to Morrow!
MKP|Maru|TaeJa|Mvp|Polt|INnoVation|GuMiho|Bomber|GoOdy|TeamTerran
Al Bundy
Profile Joined April 2010
7257 Posts
January 16 2012 05:36 GMT
#67
Great article, love that analys.
o choro é livre
FXOpen
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia1844 Posts
January 16 2012 05:42 GMT
#68
How dare you curse my player!
www.twitter.com/FXOpenESports
ZisforZerg
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States224 Posts
January 16 2012 06:02 GMT
#69
This was awesome to read. I always thought MorroW was smart, but damn, he's a genius! I look forward to more player analysis in the future! <3
"I'm too drunk, to taste that chicken."
Whatson
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
United States5356 Posts
January 16 2012 06:06 GMT
#70
...Is that the caliber of thinking that professional players have?
I'm pretty sure that 9/10 of the rest of the people playing the game would just say "He's just denying the natural and trying to get some early probe kills." That's just incredible thought processing, really wish we had some more of these!
¯\_(シ)_/¯
GTPGlitch
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
5061 Posts
January 16 2012 06:13 GMT
#71
yugioh going undefeated, don't worry
Jo Byung Se #1 fan | CJ_Rush(reborn) fan | Liquid'Jinro(ret) fan | Liquid'Taeja fan | oGsTheSuperNada fan | Iris[gm](ret) fan |
TuElite
Profile Blog Joined March 2010
Canada2123 Posts
January 16 2012 06:16 GMT
#72
On January 16 2012 09:41 tree.hugger wrote:
Morrow so smart. GSL analysis from a GSL player. #esports


Yes, indeed! More pro players analysis please!
Always Smile - Jung Nicole - Follow Nicole on Twitter @_911007 and me @TuElite
BlueRibbon
Profile Joined November 2011
United States1 Post
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 06:47:18
January 16 2012 06:45 GMT
#73
dantemp
Profile Joined October 2011
Bulgaria6 Posts
January 16 2012 07:02 GMT
#74
Does no one seen how You Gi Oh was the first to pull off the hatch in enemy's base as a counter for a FFE? And succesfully too. I'm sure MC knew how to react just because he has seen how You Gi Oh does it.
TheKerwin
Profile Joined November 2011
United States21 Posts
January 16 2012 07:10 GMT
#75
On January 16 2012 13:05 Drowsy wrote:
Wait... so vs the offensive hatch, couldn't mc just throw up double gateways at his nat, pylon block opponent's nat, and auto-win?

You can't just "throw up" 2 gateways while in the middle of forge FE'ing and expect those zealots to be up anytime soon. Leenock's build is meant to be a blind counter to Forge FE.
tuho12345
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
4482 Posts
January 16 2012 07:12 GMT
#76
On January 16 2012 16:02 dantemp wrote:
Does no one seen how You Gi Oh was the first to pull off the hatch in enemy's base as a counter for a FFE? And succesfully too. I'm sure MC knew how to react just because he has seen how You Gi Oh does it.

lol, no. May be 1 or 2 games in tourneys but that doesn't help player at MC's caliber at all. There's a reason MVP is the best player in the world eventhough he plays random on ladder and still beat the shit out of GM right?
Plus I've seen Catz own CombatEx with that already, and I'm a victim of it long time ago.
Lobotomist
Profile Joined May 2010
United States1541 Posts
January 16 2012 07:25 GMT
#77
YES. YES YES YES. Analysis like this is why I started frequenting TL in the first place and why I watch Artosis' stream even though I'm a zerg player. Please do more of these!
Teching to hive too quickly isn't just a risk: it's an ultrarisk
farside604
Profile Blog Joined January 2012
Canada127 Posts
January 16 2012 07:41 GMT
#78
On January 16 2012 09:31 AWOT wrote:
I'm confused as to why the zealot is sad now..

Same

It's gonna be a good week can't wait to see MMA in action.
bittman
Profile Joined February 2011
Australia8759 Posts
January 16 2012 07:52 GMT
#79
On January 16 2012 14:42 FXOpen wrote:
How dare you curse my player!


Don't worry Boss, it's waxangel not Fionn =P
Mvp - Leenock - Dongraegu - MC - Gumiho - Keen - Polt - Squirtle - Jjakji - Genius - Seed - Life - sC - Dream || LG-IM - MVP - FXO
dicedicerevolution
Profile Joined October 2009
United States245 Posts
January 16 2012 08:25 GMT
#80
@MorroW: I really liked your description of Leenock's style as a player and I'd love to see if you could do a similar run-down of other player styles. It seems like these sort of things are the equivalent of a player's own "natural voice" if you will and an aspiring player could aim for their highest potential if they align their development with it.
mistsifter
Profile Joined December 2011
Australia44 Posts
January 16 2012 08:29 GMT
#81
Loved the strategy highlight, pros commenting on pros is so informative.
We need more of these.
RaiKageRyu
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada4773 Posts
January 16 2012 08:49 GMT
#82
Love the analysis on select games. So much more interesting to read.
Someone call down the Thunder?
fourColo
Profile Joined June 2011
United States363 Posts
January 16 2012 08:55 GMT
#83
I've got it figured out. Leenock's hatch plan is actually MC's, he came up with it himself and passed it along via proxy into FXO so that Leenock would use it against him.
Ace1123
Profile Joined September 2011
Philippines1187 Posts
January 16 2012 09:07 GMT
#84
Gogo MMA Take this one 2-0
ForGG, Mvp, MMA, MarineKing, BoxeR,
GunPaladin
Profile Joined September 2011
United States1205 Posts
January 16 2012 09:20 GMT
#85
On January 16 2012 17:55 fourColo wrote:
I've got it figured out. Leenock's hatch plan is actually MC's, he came up with it himself and passed it along via proxy into FXO so that Leenock would use it against him.

so you're calling MC an Evil Genius?
The doctors gave me 9 months to live, ]BIG[ gave me a life time.
MorroW
Profile Joined August 2008
Sweden3522 Posts
January 16 2012 09:24 GMT
#86
thank you very much and tnx to waxangel for coming to me about this!
Progamerpls no copy pasterino
JustPassingBy
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
10776 Posts
January 16 2012 09:44 GMT
#87
MMA is the last champion? I thought that was jiakji? Or am I mixing up GSL season in my head?
Azera
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
3800 Posts
January 16 2012 09:45 GMT
#88
On January 16 2012 09:49 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 09:36 MrCash wrote:
If a terran wins this GSL, I request the next GSL's poster image be a marine that just doesn't give a hoot and never complains about balance or meta game or cheese, he wins no matter what.


[image loading]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284293

LOL
Check out some great music made by TLers - http://bit.ly/QXYhdb , by intrigue. http://bit.ly/RTjpOR , by ohsea.toc.
Veriol
Profile Joined October 2010
Czech Republic502 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 14:20:36
January 16 2012 10:18 GMT
#89
Is one tumor actually worth ~550 mins? (hatch,queen,lings)
Lets say MC didnt know what to do and just let do everyting perfectly even with protoss loosing 3-4 probes would it be worth it? Can zerg hold like delayed +1 4gate from 1base or smth like that?
"When you play, you have to start off with a mind to turn the game into a rape." -iloveoov
MrCash
Profile Joined October 2011
United States1504 Posts
January 16 2012 10:19 GMT
#90
On January 16 2012 09:49 Waxangel wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2012 09:36 MrCash wrote:
If a terran wins this GSL, I request the next GSL's poster image be a marine that just doesn't give a hoot and never complains about balance or meta game or cheese, he wins no matter what.


[image loading]

http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=284293


Best delivery of the week for me.
Thanks for that!
mnck
Profile Joined April 2010
Denmark1518 Posts
January 16 2012 11:47 GMT
#91
Really cool analysis by MorroW :D Liked it a lot. Makes you wanna try that hatchery on the natural strategy on the ladder XD
@Munck
THM
Profile Joined November 2010
Bulgaria1131 Posts
January 16 2012 12:13 GMT
#92
Nice strategy write-up by morrow.
Roxen000
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
1226 Posts
January 16 2012 13:06 GMT
#93
Nice predictions waxangel
._.
Waxangel
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
United States33388 Posts
January 16 2012 13:17 GMT
#94
5/5, but was an easy group to predict D:
AdministratorHey HP can you redo everything youve ever done because i have a small complaint?
normalman
Profile Joined May 2011
United Kingdom36 Posts
January 16 2012 13:32 GMT
#95
Nice one :-)
UltimateHurl
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Ireland591 Posts
January 16 2012 14:08 GMT
#96
Great stuff, great to have Morrow do analysis too
Finrod1
Profile Joined December 2010
Germany3997 Posts
January 16 2012 14:58 GMT
#97
great great analysis morrow. ty !
tztztz
Profile Joined March 2011
Germany314 Posts
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 17:22:02
January 16 2012 15:40 GMT
#98
more morrow analysis plz =)

btw, it's pretty sad to know that even artosis, one the most analytical, if not THE most analytical caster wasn't able to tell what's going on.
teko
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada1197 Posts
January 16 2012 17:27 GMT
#99
Prediction:

MMA > Gumiho
Zenio > Yugioh
MMA > Zenio
Gumiho > Yugioh
Gumiho > Zenio

MMA and Gumiho advance.


o.O
Mattchew
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
United States5684 Posts
January 16 2012 18:36 GMT
#100
On January 16 2012 22:17 Waxangel wrote:
5/5, but was an easy group to predict D:


zenio probably should have won too
There is always tomorrow nshs.seal.
Sharkyloft
Profile Joined December 2010
Colombia69 Posts
January 16 2012 18:36 GMT
#101
Nailed those predictions.

Gj!!
Noobity
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States871 Posts
January 16 2012 18:39 GMT
#102
Thanks for the writeup, and thanks Morrow for giving your insights. It's very interesting to see what other pros think about the strategies used in tournaments, and really allows us lower level players to see what you guys are looking for when analyzing, and that helps some of us learn a lot. Huge props for that.

I actually had a different take on the strategy myself-

+ Show Spoiler +
Personally I think throwing the proxy hatch down at the natural is less useful than throwing it up at say the top right of the main in cloud kingdom.

The main perks to this are the possible surprise factor, and the more powerful attack to end the game immediately. While it's unlikely that a pro would not scout around their base, proxy hatches in general aren't super common. You also place the hatch somewhere that requires money spent on either units to attack and attempt to kill the hatch, or on cannons that would be placed somewhere that would more than likely not be very useful in later engagements. By sneaking the hatch in, you're also allowing the protoss to put down their natural nexus, and (if all goes well) have it finish, losing 400 minerals of possible defending units.

What I personally do behind this (Diamond Z, so take it for what you will) is tech to roach back at home to make my "scouting" units a more powerful roach instead of ling. This allows me to harass the protoss bases, possibly picking off probes or cannons, and still placing tumors in the base to scout/hinder building placement. In more extreme cases, adding a drone in at the proxy allows for spine crawlers to be morphed, solidifying your position. The final nail in the coffin is the additional push from the front with roaches. While you're making roaches/lings/whatever at the proxy, you've cut drone production low (honestly I don't have the knowledge to say what my drone count is, but it's certainly cut when I feel I can support some roaches/lings from both hatcheries. Probably ends up maxing mineral drones and one extractor, I want to say) and you're just mass producing as many units as possible to keep the protoss from making a unified stand. Your push from your main can usually take out cannons if the toss walled off completely, and if not, you can usually take out some of their production/pylons at that wall.

I'm sure the pro scene knows more about how to handle something like this, and I get the feeling that I get away with the strategy longer than I should be able to, so maybe the last half or so of the strategy isn't really viable at top level play.
My name is Mike, and statistically, yours is not.
Daehlie
Profile Joined September 2010
United States43 Posts
January 16 2012 19:25 GMT
#103
MC is playing like a beast these days, he will be tough to beat in ro16, and is riding momentum off his foreign tournament wins. He is my dark horse to win the entire event.
SK.MC ftw
Synwave
Profile Joined July 2009
United States2803 Posts
January 16 2012 20:04 GMT
#104
Crap I just had time to read this
+ Show Spoiler +
I had zenio winning and mma but I also picked zenio to advance even though I was coinflipping on the decision between him and gumiho...bah, so close to a perfect bet set!
♞Nerdrage is the cause of global warming♞
snively
Profile Blog Joined August 2011
United States1159 Posts
January 16 2012 20:37 GMT
#105
MC is ridiculous, I really, really wish I had seen that game live TT_TT
My religion is Starcraft
Serimek
Profile Joined August 2011
France2274 Posts
January 16 2012 22:02 GMT
#106
Morrow is so nice !
SC2 is the best game to watch and was the best to play before I grew old and slow...
Zelnaga
Profile Joined January 2012
United Kingdom1 Post
Last Edited: 2012-01-16 23:26:45
January 16 2012 23:25 GMT
#107
Zenio is so bad lol. That final gam even my nan would have known it was a marine/bunker push.

User was banned for this post.
happyness
Profile Joined June 2010
United States2400 Posts
January 17 2012 00:30 GMT
#108
Nice Morrow write up. Please include more pro-analysis in the future!
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