• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 03:03
CEST 09:03
KST 16:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202532RSL Season 1 - Final Week8[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams2Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Esports World Cup 2025 - Final Player Roster Why doesnt SC2 scene costream tournaments
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame
Brood War
General
ASL20 Preliminary Maps BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL
Tourneys
[CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET The Casual Games of the Week Thread
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread The Games Industry And ATVI Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 612 users

[OSL] 2010 Bacchus OSL - RO36 Weeks 3 & 4 - Page 4

Forum Index > News
63 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
December 06 2010 23:27 GMT
#61
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
December 07 2010 02:01 GMT
#62
On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.


I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 02:17:41
December 07 2010 02:15 GMT
#63
On December 07 2010 11:01 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.


I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?

he called his opponents "insurance" and beat them with scouts. but really, nothing will ever top savior playing offrace vs gorush in the MSL. we dont have moments like these anymore
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
December 08 2010 13:05 GMT
#64
I apologize. Kal is good.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 2h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
ProTech58
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 2414
Zeus 622
ToSsGirL 262
Leta 90
Backho 82
Sacsri 49
ajuk12(nOOB) 27
NaDa 11
Dota 2
ODPixel182
XcaliburYe124
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K907
Other Games
summit1g5604
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick1233
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH433
• Sammyuel 18
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• lizZardDota256
Upcoming Events
Esports World Cup
2h 57m
ByuN vs Zoun
SHIN vs TriGGeR
Cyan vs ShoWTimE
Rogue vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs Solar
Reynor vs Maru
herO vs Cure
Serral vs Classic
Esports World Cup
1d 2h
Esports World Cup
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
CSO Cup
3 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Online Event
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.