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On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.
As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now. Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues. In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses. And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu. I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close. Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off. He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague. Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self. There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine. No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps. Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.
Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.
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On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:Show nested quote +On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.
As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now. Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues. In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses. And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu. I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close. Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off. He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague. Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self. There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine. No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps. Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers. Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.
I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?
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9071 Posts
On December 07 2010 11:01 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.
As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now. Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues. In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses. And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu. I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close. Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off. He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague. Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self. There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine. No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps. Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers. Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know. I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?
he called his opponents "insurance" and beat them with scouts. but really, nothing will ever top savior playing offrace vs gorush in the MSL. we dont have moments like these anymore
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I apologize. Kal is good.
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EPT
