• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:54
CEST 13:54
KST 20:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 20257Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202576RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18
Community News
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced23BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8
StarCraft 2
General
Tournament Spotlight: FEL Cracow 2025 #1: Maru - Greatest Players of All Time I offer completely free coaching services Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships?
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $10,000 live event Esports World Cup 2025 $25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced $5,000 WardiTV Summer Championship 2025 WardiTV Mondays
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
Google Play ASL (Season 20) Announced [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Dewalt's Show Matches in China BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers [G] Mineral Boosting Does 1 second matter in StarCraft?
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Total Annihilation Server - TAForever [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread UK Politics Mega-thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread
Fan Clubs
INnoVation Fan Club SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2025 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TeamLiquid Team Shirt On Sale The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Eight Anniversary as a TL…
Mizenhauer
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 642 users

[OSL] 2010 Bacchus OSL - RO36 Weeks 3 & 4 - Page 4

Forum Index > News
63 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
koreasilver
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
9109 Posts
December 06 2010 23:27 GMT
#61
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.
Xiphos
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Canada7507 Posts
December 07 2010 02:01 GMT
#62
On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.


I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?
2014 - ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ Raise your bows brood warriors! ᕙ( •̀ل͜•́) ϡ
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-12-07 02:17:41
December 07 2010 02:15 GMT
#63
On December 07 2010 11:01 Xiphos wrote:
Show nested quote +
On December 07 2010 08:27 koreasilver wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:41 disciple wrote:
On December 06 2010 04:09 Milkis wrote:
On December 06 2010 03:01 Musoeun wrote:
On December 06 2010 02:03 Waxangel wrote:
Bisu peaked as a player around first quarter 2009 when he was the best player in the world. His skill has declined since then, and still being a good player, he can put together occasional strings of wins or beat a more highly rated player. Whenever he does this, there's a sentiment of "he's back" from his fans, whether it be out of simple enthusiasm or seriousness. The latter case has always been incorrect, as it is during his current win streak. He is nowhere near his old level of skill which was BEST PLAYER IN THE WORLD candidate level. That is all. I never said he is a bad player.

As for 10-0, what about it? 10-0 is pretty obviously an unlikely streak for a player at Bisu's level of skill, as is Shine's 9-0 streak right now.


Bisu as a serious threat to win most games is definitely "back". Bisu as THE S-Class player of the year, MSL favorite, OSL should-win-but-always-fails-in-goofy-ways... well, the first part isn't, because Flash and Jaedong are so far ahead of everybody, including Bisu. But the second looks right about on track so far. If Bisu gets creamed in the MSL too, then maybe he's just "back" to say a Sea-level player: proleague stud, threat but not favorite in leagues.

In terms of sheer scary, Bisu's the best Protoss right now, even with the loss to Shine. Kal is more consistent, but his peak - despite the ace match win over Bisu - isn't as high. I don't think. I think free is actually better than Bisu, but he's got a far less flashy style and just doesn't inspire the same fear. Other than those two, who else is there? Stork is playing inconsistent, even sloppy; BeSt can't win a PvZ to save his life; Violet, Stats, Snow, etc all keep taking bad losses.

And losing to Shine is not a bad loss. To me, Bisu losing to Shine is like Flash losing to BeSt: you lose to a slightly worse player who's got a strong matchup where your race and personal style is weak. Let's say BeSt knocks Flash out of a Starleague at some point (not completely impossible); do we conclude "Damn, Flash must not be god-bonjwa, he lost to a not so great player"? Because that's what you've done with Bisu.

I'm not saying Bisu's necessarily "back" in all his fantastic glory, but as "serious challenger for title of best Protoss" he's definitely back. I'd personally put free ahead, but it's really close.


Do you really think Bisu is the MSL favorite over Jaedong, Flash, and god forbid, Shine? Calling him the "MSL Favorite" when Jaedong Flash Fantasy and so many other great players is being ridiculous. Your second claim is terribly off.

He's not "back", he's just an average "good" player now. To say that a "top player" is "back" you would need a lot more than "he caught a lucky streak in the Proleague", because let's face it, you can expect Flash and Jaedong to pull of those streaks, I would not expect Bisu to go on another streak of over 5 games in the Proleague.

Bisu's far from the best Protoss at the moment, or I pray that the entire Protoss race is rubbish when he is considered the best Protoss. I would give that to Kal, and sorry, why are you downplaying Kal just so you can give the "Best Protoss Award" to Bisu? Just because "his peak isn't just high"? I dunno. Bisu is definitely good (I did give him an A-, after all, but it's an "A-" like I gave free an A-). I would say Bisu is on par with Free atm. He's a "contender" for the Best Protoss but the Best Protosses aren't even close to the level of good Terrans and good Zergs at the moment. If that's what you mean by "back", then I question Bisu's so called dominance 2 or 3 years ago. When people say someone is back, that means they're back to their peak form, not to a shell of their former self.

There's no logic here that says "Because Bisu lost to Shine, Bisu must be a bad player" despite how many times you guys try to play it off that way. I personally found his play in proleague underwhelming which is why I believe his 12 game streak to be a lucky streak more than anything else -- not because Bisu is bad, but because Bisu isn't great and it's not something he will be able to pull off consistently unlike Flash who seems to get 10+ winning streaks with ease. Don't try to twist logic around here, it's not just because of his loss to Shine.


No great player came back naturally to his dominant form. The real reason why protoss is getting raped so badly is the tvp. Back in 2007 the 2 best terrans in the world were Hwasin and Sea and the protoss finally got the chance to dominate in a match up for a long period of time. You think it all came together for Flash, all of a sudden? Or he started destroying tosses right after maps such as Medusa, Destination and HBR were removed. Coincidence and stroke of flash's brilliance? I think not. Everyone from Jaedong Flash Bisu and Stork may dominate again if he gets the maps.

Bisu and Stork will never dominate again or be "back" in the sense you are talking about w/o the help of the map makers.

Flash did. There was the Leessang period where Flash and Jaedong were simply the best players around and then Flash went into a long extended slump. But then Flash kicked off his slump and soared straight up to the top starting from late last year. So many people lost hope in Flash during his slump and I read some pretty ridiculous things in LR threads during the time. I don't think Bisu will pull off the same thing because I always thought that Flash had greater potential than Jaedong or Bisu, but you never know.


I have a really interesting question. When Bisu was dominating left and right, how did he react to his wins? What was the "aura" around him? We know that Iloveoov had this grin on his face and BMd everybody that he sees, we saw Savior as the guy who nearly "killed" the whole BW scene because we thought he figured out everything already and we saw Flash as the unbreakable monster that he is right now playing the mind games against his opponents. How was Bisu back in the days?

he called his opponents "insurance" and beat them with scouts. but really, nothing will ever top savior playing offrace vs gorush in the MSL. we dont have moments like these anymore
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
Musoeun
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States4324 Posts
December 08 2010 13:05 GMT
#64
I apologize. Kal is good.
Don't Shoot the Penguins. | Dance, 성은, dance! | Killer FanKlub | Action sucks. | Storm Terran hwaiting.
Prev 1 2 3 4 All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
FEL
09:00
Cracow 2025
Clem vs Krystianer
uThermal vs SKillousLIVE!
Reynor vs MaNa
Lambo vs Gerald
ComeBackTV 1511
RotterdaM1260
IndyStarCraft 470
CranKy Ducklings173
Rex128
3DClanTV 105
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RotterdaM 1260
IndyStarCraft 470
Rex 128
ProTech69
BRAT_OK 43
MindelVK 14
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 32972
Horang2 9087
Hyuk 5824
Barracks 994
Mini 893
Hyun 865
EffOrt 628
BeSt 608
Soulkey 533
Larva 478
[ Show more ]
firebathero 455
Stork 397
Last 231
ZerO 109
Dewaltoss 62
sorry 57
Free 55
Rush 40
Sharp 34
Noble 31
Sea.KH 31
Sacsri 30
sSak 29
Shinee 28
sas.Sziky 27
soO 25
Movie 24
Icarus 14
yabsab 14
ajuk12(nOOB) 12
zelot 10
Terrorterran 1
Dota 2
XcaliburYe638
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K540
sgares160
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor281
Other Games
B2W.Neo1383
Beastyqt812
DeMusliM205
QueenE33
ZerO(Twitch)14
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 17 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH383
• tFFMrPink 11
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• sooper7s
• Migwel
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Kozan
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• C_a_k_e 3757
• WagamamaTV735
• lizZardDota2248
League of Legends
• Jankos1078
• Nemesis796
Upcoming Events
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2h 6m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
6h 6m
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 22h
WardiTV European League
2 days
Online Event
2 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
CranKy Ducklings
5 days
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL 20 Non-Korean Championship
BSL 20 Team Wars
FEL Cracov 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
WardiTV Summer 2025
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.