I'm sure this will be TLDR so I will bold the highlights
Also, while Day[9] is a brilliant commentator who`s game knowledge and witty humour is unsurpassed, his Dailies are not really commentaries. They are more of a post-game analysis, where he takes the liberty to forward and rewind the video as he pleases. As such, he has much more freedom in terms of noticing the intricacies of the game then someone who has to commentate the game as it is running
I would call it a technical commentary. It is still there for entertainment. It is still a commentary. Its not weaker or stronger than any other type of commentary it just appeals to different people. Phreak of Warcraft 3, for example, does a more technical style of commentary as well.
Day9 is great at this since he definitely has way more technical knowledge than the rest of us AND he is extremely good at conveying the information. I am not sure people really appreciate this as much as they should.
I think a lot of people make the mistake of thinking that tons of knowledge = good commentator. Its the same mistake as brilliant scientist = great professor. Most of the time when you find people at that level, they have invested so much in their expertise that they fail to develop accompanying communication skills. Perhaps that is why there are so many emotionally underdeveloped trolls in these forums.
Commentary is all about communicating information in an entertaining way. It is a focus on the communication, not the information. You can be conveying all sorts of different information. This is why a really good play by play commentator can still be entertaining for many or a joke commentary can be a blast.
I know that a lot of people don't like play by play so they won't like that style of commentary. Believe it or not I have noticed that A to B+ ranked players prefer play by play so they can shut their brain off. They aren't really going to learn much from any commentary so that portion of the entertainment is minimized. Point being your own personal experiences and backgrounds will help determine the type of commentary you enjoy.
On that line of thought Day9 possesses a very high level of technical knowledge that will appeal to certain viewers and turn other viewers off (mostly at the fringes I think). The rest of us possess much more widespread or "common" information on the technical side of things. That is to say, there are a LOT more C- to D- players in the world than A+ to C. We are only trying to communicate the technical information portion of the commetnary at our own level and as a result the pure technical information will appeal to a smaller subsection of player.
At the same time we aren't focusing on the technical information for our commentary to make our commentary entertaining. I would suck at a technical commentary. I can only commentate to my level of understanding and that is all I have every tried to do. That is not to say I haven't tried to improve over time. I definitely think my technical knowledge is better now than it was even a month ago and I think it gets better all the time. Day9 is in part to thank for that and as always I have to continuously thank all the EG and pandemic guys as well as key other people that discuss starcraft with me and enlighten me on a regular basis. I love learning about the game.
But knowing my technical knowledge will probably never be A+ I instead try to convey the emotional or historical information involved in a match. I have noticed that many times technical commentators downplay the emotions of the players in a match. It just makes sense for that style of commentary.
For example, in my commentary I will put emotional pressure on a 2 hatch muta whether they players are going through the motions or not. I think it creates tension for the viewer and as a result it makes the game exciting and entertaining to watch. In a technical commentary 2 hatch muta is something you don't emotional respond to generally. It is something you have seen a million times in game, it is something that you try to respond to with subconscious action.
Now each commentator tries to communicate the information that he/she possesses in a a unique way. However Day is communicating a type of information that the rest of us simply cannot and therefore his commentary is unique.
But when it comes to "better commentator" or "better commentary" its still a matter of what floats your boat.
On a side note I think people shouldn't overvalue technical information as "good commentary". Technical information as an information "commodity" is somewhat expensive (or cheap depending on your perspective). Technical information is only new to a viewer once and its super easy to plagiarize since once you hear someone else say something you now know it as well. Thus with a finite amount of knowledge in a semi-repetitive game technical information is easy to acquire and difficult to keep fresh. I may be wrong in this assumption, but I assummmme (and you know what they say about assumptions.... they are bad) that people who watch or put high value on technical information tend to view more casually.
In general I think its important to devalue the information that is being conveyed and to inflate the value of how it is communicated in commentary.
To wrap this up with a crude metaphor.... Good commentary is like making love to a women, you can have huge "equipment" but if you don't know how to use it she will just be bored. Stretching that metaphor to Day9, he not only has a huge ePeen, he knows how to use it.
Now noting that commentary entertainment is based on communication and not raw information input, and noting that different types of communication appeal to different people, everyone is going to have an opinion on what they think is better. And that is okay.
Hence oranges are way better than bananas. First of all they are way more fun to peel. Secondly they are a citrus. Third, they have the same name as their color. Also its easier to say orange than banana.
On January 08 2010 09:35 Diggity wrote:Also oranges are way better than bananas.
You just lost my vote.
DAMN a banana fan!
Yeah, that's I think what Diggity meant. People like different stuff. Don't trip out so much if someone else likes something else... everyone is always going to have their own set of preferences and you telling them they're wrong isn't going to change how they feel, so there's no point.
A lot of people is comparing the commentaries of Day9 with other commentators. I just want to state one important difference between them. Day9 watched the game before hand (maybe multiple times), but other commentators tend to do the commentaries on their first watch to avoid being spoiled the match. That is one reason why Day9 might notice small things and also the flow of the game itself.
On January 09 2010 03:11 Diggity wrote: [large post edited out]
I agree that it just comes down to preferences mostly. I wouldn't take "so and so is better" guys too seriously -- once you get past certain basic levels of commentating, its all a matter of opinion anyway. And as usual for most threads about commentators, there will be those that want to start a fight about how A is better than B.
Ultimately "finding out which commentator is better" is not really the goal of this contest, it's more to encourage participation and involvement with the community and with TSL. I hope nobody is discouraged by any sort of insulting or overly aggressive responses in this thread, thats just what naturally tends to happen when excited fans judge people based solely on their spoken personalities.
Let's hope the contest provides many commentaries and feedback.
it's more to encourage participation and involvement with the community and with TSL.
TSL is the best event for foreigners period. It is the non-korean MSL/OSL . As such I think we should all pool our support in it to make it the best event possible.
I definitely recommend participating here and also rooting for your favorite player G5 (and lets not forget Nyoken either).
On January 09 2010 03:13 LunarDestiny wrote: A lot of people is comparing the commentaries of Day9 with other commentators. I just want to state one important difference between them. Day9 watched the game before hand (maybe multiple times), but other commentators tend to do the commentaries on their first watch to avoid being spoiled the match. That is one reason why Day9 might notice small things and also the flow of the game itself.
Day9 also does live commentary. Your point is therefore just wrong.
On January 09 2010 03:13 LunarDestiny wrote: A lot of people is comparing the commentaries of Day9 with other commentators. I just want to state one important difference between them. Day9 watched the game before hand (maybe multiple times), but other commentators tend to do the commentaries on their first watch to avoid being spoiled the match. That is one reason why Day9 might notice small things and also the flow of the game itself.
Day9 also does live commentary. Your point is therefore just wrong.
Yes, Day9 did do a few live commentaries, but you would have to agree that his live commentaries are less indepth and less insightful compare with his usual day9 daily.
On January 09 2010 07:05 Sl4ktarN wrote: You can still participate even if you live outside the US, right? Just a Swede who really wants a Whaseung-shirt asking!
On January 09 2010 03:13 LunarDestiny wrote: A lot of people is comparing the commentaries of Day9 with other commentators. I just want to state one important difference between them. Day9 watched the game before hand (maybe multiple times), but other commentators tend to do the commentaries on their first watch to avoid being spoiled the match. That is one reason why Day9 might notice small things and also the flow of the game itself.
Day9 also does live commentary. Your point is therefore just wrong.
Yes, Day9 did do a few live commentaries, but you would have to agree that his live commentaries are less indepth and less insightful compare with his usual day9 daily.
I found his live Chill-Combat commentary extremely insightful.
On January 09 2010 07:58 BisuDagger wrote: When and where can we get the replays? I dont remember seeing a time for when the replay pack is released. Sorry if this was answered already.
The replays will be released after the games are played this weekend.
I'm willing to do a dual commentary with someone. Whenever I try to start doing commentaries I end up thinking "I'm talking to a computer screen...". It's much easier when the screen talks back. But when we win I call dibs on the left half of the jacket.
But on a more serious note...what if a dual commentary wins first place? Can they elect to each get a shirt instead of the $100 or jacket?
On January 09 2010 09:12 tofucake wrote: But on a more serious note...what if a dual commentary wins first place? Can they elect to each get a shirt instead of the $100 or jacket?
Plexa already pointed out that they wouldn't give two prizes... but didn't specify how they would resolve disagreements about who gets it :p
On January 09 2010 11:40 mattandstevesc wrote: Diggity wins with his fantastic commentating thesis. - Matt
To throw my 5 cents at the issue: I think professional television sportscasters are a good comparrison for all of this. They do a lot of play by play and the best ones use creative, entertaining terminology to do so. Still, they all use their high level of technical knowledge to attempt to give the audience a better picture of what is going on. Both are needed for a comentary to be good. I would say, at least from what I've seen, that the forgien sc community is rather lacking in the technical knowledge part (With the exception of Day[9]). I could spot more things than most of the youtube commentators and many were saying things that even I knew were wrong (and I'm D-). That being said, I respect those commentators for getting out there and trying to improve the community and make sc more entertaining for people.
I once watched a game with a translation of the korean commentators and I was blown away by how deep the technical aspects of their comentaries were while still bring all the hype of the personallities of the players and still doing a rough play-by-play. I realize that the Korean casters are paid professionals and so their quality will be much higher than the amatuer forgein scene. Still, we have something we can strive to copy, great examples of combining flair and technical ability.
I'm really glad the community is doing this contest! Its a great chance for the casters to have fun and try something new as well as getting feedback on how to become a better. Sc players keep getting better and better, and so the casters should keep up and strive for that professional level!
EPT
