• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 12:59
CET 18:59
KST 02:59
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview11Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info3herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational14SC2 All-Star Invitational: Tournament Preview5RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win3Weekly Cups (Jan 12-18): herO, MaxPax, Solar win0BSL Season 2025 - Full Overview and Conclusion8Weekly Cups (Jan 5-11): Clem wins big offline, Trigger upsets4$21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7)38
StarCraft 2
General
HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview StarCraft 2 Not at the Esports World Cup 2026 Weekly Cups (Jan 19-25): Bunny, Trigger, MaxPax win Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued herO wins SC2 All-Star Invitational
Tourneys
HomeStory Cup 28 KSL Week 85 $21,000 Rongyi Cup Season 3 announced (Jan 22-Feb 7) OSC Season 13 World Championship $70 Prize Pool Ladder Legends Academy Weekly Open!
Strategy
Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
[A] Starcraft Sound Mod
External Content
The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 510 Safety Violation Mutation # 509 Doomsday Report Mutation # 508 Violent Night
Brood War
General
Liquipedia.net NEEDS editors for Brood War BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Can someone share very abbreviated BW cliffnotes? BW General Discussion [ASL21] Potential Map Candidates
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Azhi's Colosseum - Season 2 [BSL21] Non-Korean Championship - Starts Jan 10
Strategy
Zealot bombing is no longer popular? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Current Meta Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile Mobile Legends: Bang Bang Beyond All Reason
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
The herO Fan Club! The IdrA Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Let's Get Creative–Video Gam…
TrAiDoS
My 2025 Magic: The Gathering…
DARKING
Life Update and thoughts.
FuDDx
How do archons sleep?
8882
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 2003 users

Backseat Broodwar - Vol. 2 - Page 2

Forum Index > News
70 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Illusion.
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States348 Posts
October 24 2009 17:26 GMT
#21
great write up STORK ftw1!@!@!@@!!@!
STORK FOR LIFE.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
October 24 2009 17:35 GMT
#22
On October 25 2009 02:22 Sentient66 wrote:
Good read! I lol'd at the 5 pooled pic. And I also agree that Calm is looking incredibly strong right now.

This.

Why are people saying Calm PvZ is bad? Because Movie and Backho played really good against him and he struggled? It's so stupid.
In the woods, there lurks..
AssiRoyal
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Germany216 Posts
October 24 2009 17:40 GMT
#23
nice read thx guys
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
October 24 2009 17:43 GMT
#24
On October 25 2009 01:18 Magic84 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2009 00:29 disciple wrote:
Great article and I agree that the maps are not the main factor that caused the current zerg domination in the zvp, but the maps are certainly the key to balancing the match up again. I keep saying it but if KeSPa decides to turn things around again it surely will happen. Maybe ToTM was not used enough but its a perfect example how you can make a certain race start "sucking" in a MU. Protoss just started every Bo3 match against zerg from 0-1 by default. Just change the pattern drastically and limit the current possibilities. It surely worked on protoss...

Its not that toss must start using something new, like scouts, one base carriers DAs and all other sorts of radical options. Its zerg that must be limited. Shine and Calm are maybe smart players but they are not the pvz experts their record is showing. Jaedong really made quite a revolution regarding the current zvp trends. Having said that I just cant help thinking why are the map makers keeping the current trends for a second season in a row or maybe 3rd season in a row. It takes a simple peak at the MSL race distribution to see that something went horribly wrong

This will let protoss continue to be stagnant as race. I like what Stork said about protoss just accepting the fate and not working hard on their game, some protoss became slackers starting to even get beat in pvt, if protoss starts to work hard instead of waiting for new maps, the imbalance will be compensated at least somewhat and innovations will come naturally as well. Protoss had always an option to go for cheesy plays on totm and they really didn't try to adapt to the map, the bad map is gone anyway. This race has the biggest room for improvement clearly as far as the average skill concerned, and this situation is the opportunity to improve strategically and skillwise.

Also there is nothing else i would love to see in starcraft more, than a lot of radically unususal protoss play, why would anybody not want that? DAs, pvz arbiters, scouts, various combos, more pvz web, pvz carriers, pvz upgrades, etc, the silliest stuff will work if the opponent is unprepared and was practicing five hours a day versus some standard fe-sair, Backho-Calm is the recent proof, i think protoss strategic research should be encouraged.

Its not like the zerg started using queens on a regular basis or 1 hatch guardian builds of some sort to dominate the protoss so hard again.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
omg.deus
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Korea (South)150 Posts
October 24 2009 17:49 GMT
#25
A player trying to improve is going to watch the best player of their race. A toss player watching Bisu has to try and copy him as well as figure out what is preventing him from winning more. Zerg players simply have to copy Jaedong and other top zergs since they are already dominating. There is little that needs to be worked out for ZvP, no thinking, just copying.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3156 Posts
October 24 2009 17:52 GMT
#26
ForGG needs to make some fucking vessels, wow. Just watched that game, there's a reason terrans use EMP... stork's arbiters had a field day.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
October 24 2009 18:02 GMT
#27
Great write-up! But to say that Calm is smarter than JD can only be anti-bandwagonism imo. It was also the only point in the article that didn't seem to be properly argued... Thanks a lot for the view tips. But I'd like to add that Stork-ForGG game was, even though very entertaining, kind of scrappy with a lot of mistakes on both parts.

And yeah: Pusan fighting!!!
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Magic84
Profile Joined October 2008
Russian Federation1381 Posts
October 24 2009 18:19 GMT
#28
On October 25 2009 02:43 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2009 01:18 Magic84 wrote:
On October 25 2009 00:29 disciple wrote:
Great article and I agree that the maps are not the main factor that caused the current zerg domination in the zvp, but the maps are certainly the key to balancing the match up again. I keep saying it but if KeSPa decides to turn things around again it surely will happen. Maybe ToTM was not used enough but its a perfect example how you can make a certain race start "sucking" in a MU. Protoss just started every Bo3 match against zerg from 0-1 by default. Just change the pattern drastically and limit the current possibilities. It surely worked on protoss...

Its not that toss must start using something new, like scouts, one base carriers DAs and all other sorts of radical options. Its zerg that must be limited. Shine and Calm are maybe smart players but they are not the pvz experts their record is showing. Jaedong really made quite a revolution regarding the current zvp trends. Having said that I just cant help thinking why are the map makers keeping the current trends for a second season in a row or maybe 3rd season in a row. It takes a simple peak at the MSL race distribution to see that something went horribly wrong

This will let protoss continue to be stagnant as race. I like what Stork said about protoss just accepting the fate and not working hard on their game, some protoss became slackers starting to even get beat in pvt, if protoss starts to work hard instead of waiting for new maps, the imbalance will be compensated at least somewhat and innovations will come naturally as well. Protoss had always an option to go for cheesy plays on totm and they really didn't try to adapt to the map, the bad map is gone anyway. This race has the biggest room for improvement clearly as far as the average skill concerned, and this situation is the opportunity to improve strategically and skillwise.

Also there is nothing else i would love to see in starcraft more, than a lot of radically unususal protoss play, why would anybody not want that? DAs, pvz arbiters, scouts, various combos, more pvz web, pvz carriers, pvz upgrades, etc, the silliest stuff will work if the opponent is unprepared and was practicing five hours a day versus some standard fe-sair, Backho-Calm is the recent proof, i think protoss strategic research should be encouraged.

Its not like the zerg started using queens on a regular basis or 1 hatch guardian builds of some sort to dominate the protoss so hard again.

Because they are in leading position, they are aggressors due to nature of matchup, most of the time it's protoss that has to adjust to new strats and standards zerg comes up with. It's a dire situation for protoss right now. So why not adjust with creativity and exploration of race potentials? Protoss is still an unexplored race. Similarly, zergs suffer a lot adjusting to all the terran shenanigans, who can throw anything at zerg and still win, the sc history is one long agonizing zerg struggle in zvt. Zerg put to use almost every unit, bug, spell and upgrade pattern there is, as well as the skill of average zerg vastly improved.

All the innovations and rooms for deviations will come naturally after average protoss starts working harder. I understand, it's easy to say such things as a zerg and it's hard to come up with something new, yet solid. But right now it's the good timing for that, since the fresh map pool that will be used for a while isn't looking so good for the protoss.
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
October 24 2009 18:27 GMT
#29
Mmm good read about the current PvZ situation
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
October 24 2009 18:28 GMT
#30
lol 5pool.
Jangbi is just a huge ball of fail now
damn i want to see Jangbi storms again...
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
DivinO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4796 Posts
October 24 2009 18:34 GMT
#31
Excellent write-up. Think Jaedong has a chance of raising the bar now?
LiquipediaBrain in my filth.
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
October 24 2009 18:34 GMT
#32
This is why I love starcraft! It's plot-driven. Jaedong has blazed his own path to the zerg throne. And not too long ago it was thought that he was the supreme leader, bar none. That no one could even HOPE to touch him. However, shockingly, his powers are dwindling, or, other's are catching up and there will be some serious contenders who will challenge him in the future. Calm especially, seems to be smarter than any zerg out there. JD WILL have to sharpen his strategic thinking to keep his dominance up. But it's been what, 3 years now? I think JD may have reached his peak.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
October 24 2009 18:37 GMT
#33
Can I have some VODs which earned Calm the "Brain" zerg nick? Thanks.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
October 24 2009 19:05 GMT
#34
go wemade~
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
October 24 2009 19:29 GMT
#35
I'm looking forward to seeing if Flash's new TvZ timing strategies work against top-tier Zerg players. We'll find out who the pretenders who can only copy Jaedong (and crumble when one timing is unexpected) are, and who can think for themselves and react to unexpected timing. If Flash begins stomping JD and Calm, the Zerg race will be in trouble as all Terrans start copying Flash again.

Seems Stork is giving a half-hearted try at leading the Protoss tactical division, but he doesn't really give the impression that he cares much anymore. Too much WoW, maybe? Still, at least he's playing solid, the same can't be said of Bisu or....ANY other Protoss player.

Someone, save us from the Swarm!
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11075 Posts
October 24 2009 19:46 GMT
#36
Wierd. I thought Jangbi would be one of the best tosses to adapt to this zerg onslaught because of his storm ability.

Yeah Stork doesn't seem to really care anymore. Every interview he talks about not practicing. :_: January needs to beat up the Khan team.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
October 24 2009 20:31 GMT
#37
I think you guys forget why we used to call him FakeYellow.
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
October 24 2009 20:53 GMT
#38
Very entertaining read indeed. It's worth joining TL just for articles like this.
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
dibban
Profile Joined July 2008
Sweden1279 Posts
October 24 2009 21:01 GMT
#39
Great read! Good points.
이제동 - 이영호 since '07.
Usurper
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Macedonia283 Posts
October 24 2009 21:17 GMT
#40
Great read, thank you.

The 5 pool picture is a gem.
Oh and nice man-crush on Bisu. :p
I love humanity. It is people that i can't stand.
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
HomeStory Cup
12:00
Day 3
HeRoMaRinE vs SerralLIVE!
ShoWTimE vs Clem
TaKeTV6073
ComeBackTV 2274
IndyStarCraft 686
TaKeSeN 467
3DClanTV 150
Rex137
CosmosSc2 109
EnkiAlexander 65
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
IndyStarCraft 686
Rex 137
CosmosSc2 109
BRAT_OK 56
ROOTCatZ 35
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 2404
Shuttle 827
Larva 347
EffOrt 290
Mini 289
firebathero 176
actioN 141
ggaemo 129
Hyun 60
Sharp 39
[ Show more ]
Mind 31
PianO 31
Free 27
Rock 24
yabsab 16
JYJ 14
HiyA 11
soO 10
NaDa 6
Stormgate
BeoMulf97
Dota 2
Gorgc6906
qojqva3366
singsing1723
Counter-Strike
fl0m4467
pashabiceps818
kRYSTAL_17
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King98
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor837
Liquid`Hasu508
Trikslyr52
MindelVK19
Other Games
FrodaN8090
Grubby3842
Liquid`RaSZi2335
Mlord783
B2W.Neo471
crisheroes357
KnowMe130
QueenE123
ToD120
Organizations
Other Games
EGCTV1841
gamesdonequick176
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 14 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 45
• Kozan
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV347
League of Legends
• Jankos2898
Other Games
• Shiphtur220
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
6h 1m
Replay Cast
1d 6h
Wardi Open
1d 18h
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Replay Cast
3 days
The PondCast
3 days
WardiTV Invitational
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-01-31
OSC Championship Season 13
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS4
Rongyi Cup S3
HSC XXVIII
Nations Cup 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S1: W7
Escore Tournament S1: W8
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.