• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 17:40
CET 23:40
KST 07:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !3Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win2Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2BGE Stara Zagora 2026 announced15
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win Did they add GM to 2v2? RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump
Tourneys
Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1: Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship StarCraft2.fi 15th Anniversary Cup
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement Mutation # 501 Price of Progress
Brood War
General
How Rain Became ProGamer in Just 3 Months FlaSh on: Biggest Problem With SnOw's Playstyle BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ [BSL21] RO8 Bracket & Prediction Contest BW General Discussion
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] RO8 - Day 2 - Sunday 21:00 CET [ASL20] Grand Finals [BSL21] RO8 - Day 1 - Saturday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Current Meta Game Theory for Starcraft Simple Questions, Simple Answers Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread General RTS Discussion Thread Dawn of War IV Nintendo Switch Thread PC Games Sales Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine YouTube Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion!
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
How Sleep Deprivation Affect…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1745 users

Backseat Broodwar - Vol. 2 - Page 2

Forum Index > News
70 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Illusion.
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States348 Posts
October 24 2009 17:26 GMT
#21
great write up STORK ftw1!@!@!@@!!@!
STORK FOR LIFE.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
October 24 2009 17:35 GMT
#22
On October 25 2009 02:22 Sentient66 wrote:
Good read! I lol'd at the 5 pooled pic. And I also agree that Calm is looking incredibly strong right now.

This.

Why are people saying Calm PvZ is bad? Because Movie and Backho played really good against him and he struggled? It's so stupid.
In the woods, there lurks..
AssiRoyal
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Germany216 Posts
October 24 2009 17:40 GMT
#23
nice read thx guys
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
October 24 2009 17:43 GMT
#24
On October 25 2009 01:18 Magic84 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2009 00:29 disciple wrote:
Great article and I agree that the maps are not the main factor that caused the current zerg domination in the zvp, but the maps are certainly the key to balancing the match up again. I keep saying it but if KeSPa decides to turn things around again it surely will happen. Maybe ToTM was not used enough but its a perfect example how you can make a certain race start "sucking" in a MU. Protoss just started every Bo3 match against zerg from 0-1 by default. Just change the pattern drastically and limit the current possibilities. It surely worked on protoss...

Its not that toss must start using something new, like scouts, one base carriers DAs and all other sorts of radical options. Its zerg that must be limited. Shine and Calm are maybe smart players but they are not the pvz experts their record is showing. Jaedong really made quite a revolution regarding the current zvp trends. Having said that I just cant help thinking why are the map makers keeping the current trends for a second season in a row or maybe 3rd season in a row. It takes a simple peak at the MSL race distribution to see that something went horribly wrong

This will let protoss continue to be stagnant as race. I like what Stork said about protoss just accepting the fate and not working hard on their game, some protoss became slackers starting to even get beat in pvt, if protoss starts to work hard instead of waiting for new maps, the imbalance will be compensated at least somewhat and innovations will come naturally as well. Protoss had always an option to go for cheesy plays on totm and they really didn't try to adapt to the map, the bad map is gone anyway. This race has the biggest room for improvement clearly as far as the average skill concerned, and this situation is the opportunity to improve strategically and skillwise.

Also there is nothing else i would love to see in starcraft more, than a lot of radically unususal protoss play, why would anybody not want that? DAs, pvz arbiters, scouts, various combos, more pvz web, pvz carriers, pvz upgrades, etc, the silliest stuff will work if the opponent is unprepared and was practicing five hours a day versus some standard fe-sair, Backho-Calm is the recent proof, i think protoss strategic research should be encouraged.

Its not like the zerg started using queens on a regular basis or 1 hatch guardian builds of some sort to dominate the protoss so hard again.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
omg.deus
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Korea (South)150 Posts
October 24 2009 17:49 GMT
#25
A player trying to improve is going to watch the best player of their race. A toss player watching Bisu has to try and copy him as well as figure out what is preventing him from winning more. Zerg players simply have to copy Jaedong and other top zergs since they are already dominating. There is little that needs to be worked out for ZvP, no thinking, just copying.
integral
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States3156 Posts
October 24 2009 17:52 GMT
#26
ForGG needs to make some fucking vessels, wow. Just watched that game, there's a reason terrans use EMP... stork's arbiters had a field day.
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
October 24 2009 18:02 GMT
#27
Great write-up! But to say that Calm is smarter than JD can only be anti-bandwagonism imo. It was also the only point in the article that didn't seem to be properly argued... Thanks a lot for the view tips. But I'd like to add that Stork-ForGG game was, even though very entertaining, kind of scrappy with a lot of mistakes on both parts.

And yeah: Pusan fighting!!!
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Magic84
Profile Joined October 2008
Russian Federation1381 Posts
October 24 2009 18:19 GMT
#28
On October 25 2009 02:43 disciple wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 25 2009 01:18 Magic84 wrote:
On October 25 2009 00:29 disciple wrote:
Great article and I agree that the maps are not the main factor that caused the current zerg domination in the zvp, but the maps are certainly the key to balancing the match up again. I keep saying it but if KeSPa decides to turn things around again it surely will happen. Maybe ToTM was not used enough but its a perfect example how you can make a certain race start "sucking" in a MU. Protoss just started every Bo3 match against zerg from 0-1 by default. Just change the pattern drastically and limit the current possibilities. It surely worked on protoss...

Its not that toss must start using something new, like scouts, one base carriers DAs and all other sorts of radical options. Its zerg that must be limited. Shine and Calm are maybe smart players but they are not the pvz experts their record is showing. Jaedong really made quite a revolution regarding the current zvp trends. Having said that I just cant help thinking why are the map makers keeping the current trends for a second season in a row or maybe 3rd season in a row. It takes a simple peak at the MSL race distribution to see that something went horribly wrong

This will let protoss continue to be stagnant as race. I like what Stork said about protoss just accepting the fate and not working hard on their game, some protoss became slackers starting to even get beat in pvt, if protoss starts to work hard instead of waiting for new maps, the imbalance will be compensated at least somewhat and innovations will come naturally as well. Protoss had always an option to go for cheesy plays on totm and they really didn't try to adapt to the map, the bad map is gone anyway. This race has the biggest room for improvement clearly as far as the average skill concerned, and this situation is the opportunity to improve strategically and skillwise.

Also there is nothing else i would love to see in starcraft more, than a lot of radically unususal protoss play, why would anybody not want that? DAs, pvz arbiters, scouts, various combos, more pvz web, pvz carriers, pvz upgrades, etc, the silliest stuff will work if the opponent is unprepared and was practicing five hours a day versus some standard fe-sair, Backho-Calm is the recent proof, i think protoss strategic research should be encouraged.

Its not like the zerg started using queens on a regular basis or 1 hatch guardian builds of some sort to dominate the protoss so hard again.

Because they are in leading position, they are aggressors due to nature of matchup, most of the time it's protoss that has to adjust to new strats and standards zerg comes up with. It's a dire situation for protoss right now. So why not adjust with creativity and exploration of race potentials? Protoss is still an unexplored race. Similarly, zergs suffer a lot adjusting to all the terran shenanigans, who can throw anything at zerg and still win, the sc history is one long agonizing zerg struggle in zvt. Zerg put to use almost every unit, bug, spell and upgrade pattern there is, as well as the skill of average zerg vastly improved.

All the innovations and rooms for deviations will come naturally after average protoss starts working harder. I understand, it's easy to say such things as a zerg and it's hard to come up with something new, yet solid. But right now it's the good timing for that, since the fresh map pool that will be used for a while isn't looking so good for the protoss.
BanZu
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States3329 Posts
October 24 2009 18:27 GMT
#29
Mmm good read about the current PvZ situation
Sun Tzu once said, "Defiler becomes useless at the presences of a vessel."
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
October 24 2009 18:28 GMT
#30
lol 5pool.
Jangbi is just a huge ball of fail now
damn i want to see Jangbi storms again...
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
DivinO
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States4796 Posts
October 24 2009 18:34 GMT
#31
Excellent write-up. Think Jaedong has a chance of raising the bar now?
LiquipediaBrain in my filth.
Warrior Madness
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
Canada3791 Posts
October 24 2009 18:34 GMT
#32
This is why I love starcraft! It's plot-driven. Jaedong has blazed his own path to the zerg throne. And not too long ago it was thought that he was the supreme leader, bar none. That no one could even HOPE to touch him. However, shockingly, his powers are dwindling, or, other's are catching up and there will be some serious contenders who will challenge him in the future. Calm especially, seems to be smarter than any zerg out there. JD WILL have to sharpen his strategic thinking to keep his dominance up. But it's been what, 3 years now? I think JD may have reached his peak.
The Past: Yellow, Julyzerg, Chojja, Savior, GGplay -- The Present: Luxury, Jae- The Future: -Dong, maGma, Zero, Effort, Hoejja, hyvaa, by.hero, calm, Action ---> SC2 (Ret?? Kolll Idra!! SEN, Cool, ZergBong, Leenock)
cascades
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Singapore6122 Posts
October 24 2009 18:37 GMT
#33
Can I have some VODs which earned Calm the "Brain" zerg nick? Thanks.
HS: cascades#1595 || LoL: stoppin
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
October 24 2009 19:05 GMT
#34
go wemade~
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
Hinanawi
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2250 Posts
October 24 2009 19:29 GMT
#35
I'm looking forward to seeing if Flash's new TvZ timing strategies work against top-tier Zerg players. We'll find out who the pretenders who can only copy Jaedong (and crumble when one timing is unexpected) are, and who can think for themselves and react to unexpected timing. If Flash begins stomping JD and Calm, the Zerg race will be in trouble as all Terrans start copying Flash again.

Seems Stork is giving a half-hearted try at leading the Protoss tactical division, but he doesn't really give the impression that he cares much anymore. Too much WoW, maybe? Still, at least he's playing solid, the same can't be said of Bisu or....ANY other Protoss player.

Someone, save us from the Swarm!
Favorite progamers (in order): Flash, Stork, Violet, Sea. ||| Get better soon, Violet!
Sabu113
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States11075 Posts
October 24 2009 19:46 GMT
#36
Wierd. I thought Jangbi would be one of the best tosses to adapt to this zerg onslaught because of his storm ability.

Yeah Stork doesn't seem to really care anymore. Every interview he talks about not practicing. :_: January needs to beat up the Khan team.
Biomine is a drunken chick who is on industrial strength amphetamines and would just grab your dick and jerk it as hard and violently as she could while screaming 'OMG FUCK ME', because she saw it in a Sasha Grey video ...-Wombat_Ni
cgrinker
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States3824 Posts
October 24 2009 20:31 GMT
#37
I think you guys forget why we used to call him FakeYellow.
nayumi
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Australia6499 Posts
October 24 2009 20:53 GMT
#38
Very entertaining read indeed. It's worth joining TL just for articles like this.
Sugoi monogatari onii-chan!
dibban
Profile Joined July 2008
Sweden1279 Posts
October 24 2009 21:01 GMT
#39
Great read! Good points.
이제동 - 이영호 since '07.
Usurper
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Macedonia283 Posts
October 24 2009 21:17 GMT
#40
Great read, thank you.

The 5 pool picture is a gem.
Oh and nice man-crush on Bisu. :p
I love humanity. It is people that i can't stand.
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 11h 20m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft219
SteadfastSC 170
NeuroSwarm 114
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 9959
Artosis 372
Bonyth 82
Mong 14
Dota 2
Dendi1993
syndereN1019
Other Games
Grubby6835
FrodaN1396
Liquid`Hasu375
Fuzer 303
taco 162
C9.Mang0150
ArmadaUGS149
Trikslyr40
ZombieGrub36
Organizations
Other Games
BasetradeTV40
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 20 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Hupsaiya 72
• musti20045 41
• RyuSc2 30
• davetesta13
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• Migwel
• intothetv
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
Dota 2
• masondota21306
• WagamamaTV1111
League of Legends
• Doublelift2856
• TFBlade1282
Other Games
• imaqtpie2906
• Shiphtur231
Upcoming Events
The PondCast
11h 20m
WardiTV 2025
14h 20m
Cure vs Creator
Solar vs TBD
herO vs Spirit
Scarlett vs Gerald
MaNa vs ShoWTimE
Nice vs TBD
WardiTV 2025
1d 12h
OSC
1d 15h
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
SC Evo League
2 days
Ladder Legends
2 days
BSL 21
2 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Ladder Legends
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL 21
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Monday Night Weeklies
4 days
WardiTV Invitational
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Acropolis #4 - TS3
RSL Offline Finals
Kuram Kup

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
Slon Tour Season 2
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.