On October 25 2009 03:02 Elroi wrote: Great write-up! But to say that Calm is smarter than JD can only be anti-bandwagonism imo. It was also the only point in the article that didn't seem to be properly argued... Thanks a lot for the view tips. But I'd like to add that Stork-ForGG game was, even though very entertaining, kind of scrappy with a lot of mistakes on both parts.
And yeah: Pusan fighting!!!
Your "opinion" is seemingly based on blind fanboyism.
Jaedong is an amazing player but innovation was never the guys strong point... ever. Jaedong almost always has issues when different builds are thrown at him. If he has time to prepare... great. If not then his play suffers because of it.
To say otherwise is to ignore the evidence that clearly states this.
Actually, there is one thing that Protoss players across the board can do to improve their PvZ - and as far as I can tell, this is the single biggest reason why Protoss lose vs Zerg. Once Protoss secure their fourth expansion they always slack off on defense and begin to lose their mining expansions.
The single biggest reason???
Most of the time Protoss don't even make it to a 4th expansion, the big problems with PvZ come way before this point in the game. In fact, once Protoss players get to this late game stage, the balance is quite even. It's getting there that's the problem.
Thx great reading. I must say I feel you giving JD to much credit for the whole Z race not that I totally disagree. Meaby the greatest streght of JD lies in his mental abilities and that I feel will keep in the nr 1 Z in a long time, that is something u cant copy.
Actually, there is one thing that Protoss players across the board can do to improve their PvZ - and as far as I can tell, this is the single biggest reason why Protoss lose vs Zerg. Once Protoss secure their fourth expansion they always slack off on defense and begin to lose their mining expansions.
The single biggest reason???
Most of the time Protoss don't even make it to a 4th expansion, the big problems with PvZ come way before this point in the game. In fact, once Protoss players get to this late game stage, the balance is quite even. It's getting there that's the problem.
Totally agree, not sure what the problems are, but I don't think that the main one has anything to do with the 4th expansion. The 3rd expansion seems more important to me but I don't play Protoss.
On October 25 2009 03:02 Elroi wrote: Great write-up! But to say that Calm is smarter than JD can only be anti-bandwagonism imo. It was also the only point in the article that didn't seem to be properly argued... Thanks a lot for the view tips. But I'd like to add that Stork-ForGG game was, even though very entertaining, kind of scrappy with a lot of mistakes on both parts.
And yeah: Pusan fighting!!!
Your "opinion" is seemingly based on blind fanboyism.
Jaedong is an amazing player but innovation was never the guys strong point... ever. Jaedong almost always has issues when different builds are thrown at him. If he has time to prepare... great. If not then his play suffers because of it.
To say otherwise is to ignore the evidence that clearly states this.
It's not more that He reacts more poorly to a new build than most other players, because let's face it, most new builds (Fantasy) are used on him. It's more that Calm's strength is through strong builds and plans like vs Sea on Byzantium 3 and his series vs Jaedong.
I never felt zergs are following Jaedong much at all in terms of ZvP. It's just that zergs are finally using everything in their arsenal, so to speak. Every single imbalanced aspect of ZvP has been used and abused recently. From protoss lack of mobility in the early to faster tech switches to sim-cities against zealots.
If anything, I find Jaedong's ZvP very "standard". Whereas I find Zero, Calm and Effort understand the metagame much more so. And make better decisions in-game.
Actually, there is one thing that Protoss players across the board can do to improve their PvZ - and as far as I can tell, this is the single biggest reason why Protoss lose vs Zerg. Once Protoss secure their fourth expansion they always slack off on defense and begin to lose their mining expansions.
The single biggest reason???
Most of the time Protoss don't even make it to a 4th expansion, the big problems with PvZ come way before this point in the game. In fact, once Protoss players get to this late game stage, the balance is quite even. It's getting there that's the problem.
Totally agree, not sure what the problems are, but I don't think that the main one has anything to do with the 4th expansion. The 3rd expansion seems more important to me but I don't play Protoss.
Okay let me elaborate on this a bit. Watch Jangbi vs Kwanro on fighting spirit (it's linked in the OP). Then watch Pusan vs yCh. And lastly watch Calm vs Sangho
In all three cases you have the Protoss at a fairly significant advantage with a stable economy but the zerg manages to hold on to the late mid game. Then the zerg takes out a mining Protoss expansion with either a drop or a wave of cracklings - both this abusing the lack of mobility of the Protoss in the late game. And then the Zerg wins. I think this is a very serious problem and in all semi-even matches where the game goes onto the late game this always happens and the Zergs always win. There isn't any problem securing the third expansion for some weird reason - which sounds odd I know, I expected that the third would be the critical one. But no, Protoss don't seem to have much problem taking a third anymore =/ it's holding expansions once you have 4 bases i.e. when your bases are very spread out and the Zerg can exploit your lack of mobility.
Great read. Can someone clue me in on what trick Flash uses? Is it just a timing thing? I thought I knew decent TvZ strat and what's diff about his build? Looks like standard 2 rax MM opening to me. Please 'splain.
On October 25 2009 12:28 GuYuTe- wrote: Great read. Can someone clue me in on what trick Flash uses? Is it just a timing thing? I thought I knew decent TvZ strat and what's diff about his build? Looks like standard 2 rax MM opening to me. Please 'splain.
And I agree, that Pusan cheese was nice.
Yeah its a timing thing. If you watched his previous game against By.Hero (and Savior today), you'll see him send out a large "suicidal" squad of medic and marines towards the zerg's base while leaving a bunker in his natural to stop a zergling runby.
Basically it generates time for Flash to mass up turrets and barracks in his base since if the zerg doesn't want to get run over instantly, he needs to deal with the medic and marines with his mutalisks and perhaps even force the constuction of zerglings and sunken colonies.
I love the recommendations this week guys. That and the fact that backho seems to be immune to metagame (seriously...dt zeal? Yes it hit the timing window but...seriously?)
EPT
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