• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 07:40
CET 12:40
KST 20:40
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros6[ASL20] Finals Preview: Arrival13TL.net Map Contest #21: Voting10[ASL20] Ro4 Preview: Descent11Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced!3
Community News
Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win52025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales!9BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION1Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams10Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest4
StarCraft 2
General
Intel X Team Liquid Seoul event: Showmatches and Meet the Pros Weekly Cups (Oct 20-26): MaxPax, Clem, Creator win Weekly Cups (Oct 13-19): Clem Goes for Four RotterdaM "Serral is the GOAT, and it's not close" DreamHack Open 2013 revealed
Tourneys
SC4ALL $6,000 Open LAN in Philadelphia Merivale 8 Open - LAN - Stellar Fest Crank Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams 2025 RSL Offline Finals Dates + Ticket Sales! $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 497 Battle Haredened Mutation # 496 Endless Infection Mutation # 495 Rest In Peace Mutation # 494 Unstable Environment
Brood War
General
SnOw's ASL S20 Finals Review BW General Discussion [ASL20] Ask the mapmakers — Drop your questions BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Ladder Map Matchup Stats
Tourneys
[ASL20] Grand Finals Small VOD Thread 2.0 The Casual Games of the Week Thread BSL21 Open Qualifiers Week & CONFIRM PARTICIPATION
Strategy
Current Meta How to stay on top of macro? PvZ map balance Soma's 9 hatch build from ASL Game 2
Other Games
General Games
Path of Exile General RTS Discussion Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Dawn of War IV
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion LiquidDota to reintegrate into TL.net
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread SPIRED by.ASL Mafia {211640}
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine US Politics Mega-thread The Big Programming Thread YouTube Thread
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Korean Music Discussion Series you have seen recently...
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread MLB/Baseball 2023 Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
SC2 Client Relocalization [Change SC2 Language] Linksys AE2500 USB WIFI keeps disconnecting Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Recent Gifted Posts
Blogs
KPDH "Golden" as Squid Game…
Peanutsc
Reality "theory" prov…
perfectspheres
The Benefits Of Limited Comm…
TrAiDoS
Our Last Hope in th…
KrillinFromwales
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1411 users

[OSL] The Start of Something Familiar

Forum Index > News
54 CommentsPost a Reply
Normal

[OSL] The Start of Something Familiar

Text byPlexa
October 11th, 2009 03:46 GMT
[image loading]

Banner by Silversky (it's so sexy)

OSL season is just about to kick off, but before it does we need to work out who is going to qualify. To do that, we used to go through a grueling process of OnGameNet StarChallenge (OSC) followed by the OnGameNet Dual Tournament (ODT) to eliminate those who were not worthy. As grueling as that was, OGN decided to scrap it a while ago and now we're stuck with a cleaner, more elegant system to determine who makes it through to the top 16. They call this OSL Round 1 - but this writer refuses to consider this stage of the tournament part of the OSL; it's still just a qualifier for the real tournament.

With that digression aside, the format for this qualifier is as follows. Remember the OSL Prelims? Each player who won his groups is randomly paired up with another player who won their group and a player who lost in last seasons OSL before the Semifinals. The two players who qualified in from the OSL Prelims play a Best of 3 series. The winner advances to play a Best of 3 series with the player who lost from last seasons OSL. The winner of that Best of 3 series advances to the OSL! Easy, right?

There is large misconception about these groups, and that is that it always favors the player who lost in the OSL and not who the strongest player in the group is. This is completely untrue. Under this system it is more common for a strong player to advance from a group than under the old ODT system. That means that each season the OSL is always stacked with excellent players. Additionally, it means that more of the same players from last season will re-qualify for the OSL since they are already top players. So all in all this system makes great OSLs.

So what are we going to be looking at here today? Well firstly we'll take a brief look at the two new maps being introduced to the OSL and recap the other map that will be used in the OSL Round 1. We'll also take a look at the first three OSL groups and give you some predictions and analysis (and plenty of bias commentary )


The Maps

Heartbreak Ridge
TvZ: 19-15
ZvP: 23-20
PvT: 18-15


Why did I bother posting the statistics about Heartbreak Ridge when they are some of the most misleading statistics of any map? I want to emphasis the fact that these stats do not truly reflect the balance of this map. Firstly, Monokeros wrote a cool article about the maps TvP balance (go read it). Basically, the map is a terrible TvP map in every regard. Artosis has called it "worse than Requiem" (which was really bad by the way). Any Protoss coming up a Terran on these maps should be shouting for joy.

With that said, as far as I know, TvZ isn't so bad here. Sure the record looks bad but if you examine the most recent round of preliminaries the win rate is about 50%. But then we come to ZvP and well, this map is no where near balanced again. During the prelims the Z>P winrate here approached 60%. Which is a clear indication that something has gone wrong. So while Protoss can be happy if they get a Terran here, if they get a Zerg, they should be crying in the corner.

Why would the OSL keep a map like this in the map pool despite the fact that Outsider is a better map in every way? I have no idea. Although I suspect it's because they decided to steal one of the features of Outsider in one of their new maps.

El Nino

Ah, finally a new Ice Map. This map has two clear influences; Outsider and Paranoid Android. It uses the Outsider style island expansions as well as the small vs large ramp decision offered by PA. OSL maps are traditionally more radical in concept than other leagues, but this map is an exception. They haven't really tested any boundaries with this map, which is quite disappointing to see.

Nevertheless, there are some interesting features in this map. Firstly there is the center. There are some very thin pathways right in the middle of the map. Terrans trying to push vs Protoss will love these small paths, while Zergs who are trying to flank the Terran or Protoss will absolutely despise them. They are a semi-quirky feature of the map, but I don't know how important they will be. The optimal route from base to base is still across the big ramps, so there is no real strategic value in holding the center. Thus I dont really expect the small paths to play any significant role in the map.

The backwards expansions, however, will be an interesting feature. There is one gas behind the backwards expansion which Protoss and Zergs will probably end up taking frequently. The other non-natural/main gas expansion is rather obscurely placed on the main ground of the map. To be precise, the patch of minerals to the left of the 12 main has a geyser right next to the cliff. Just rotate that by 120 degrees to get the other two gas expansions. I think that this is strongly going to encourage drop play - especially from Terrans. A dropship and two tanks can absolutely wreck havoc on a Protoss or Zerg expansion in these locations. Just think Iris vs Bisu on Byzantium, but with those drops being even more effective.

I think macro players are not going to be very happy with this map, while those who love harassing are going to have a field day. So expect Jaedong, Bisu and Fantasy to be eager for bloodshed while Stork and Flash will be quivering in their boots. At the end of the day though, this map is strongly going to favor intelligent players in the sense that players who mindlessly copy builds are going to be unable to adapt to the myriad of options players have on this map. (Similar to how all players tend to play worse on Outsider since it's so much more complicated than players are used to)

I really like this map, and I hope it's balanced so we can see it again next season.

Eye of the Storm

Another uninspired map. This is the next generation of standard map, but I guess they could have made it worse. This map is a better version of The Eye - a terrible twlight map that was used in the MSL when Savior was still good. However, this is still an improvement on 'terrible' - which doesn't mean this map is going to be very good. This map looks like Terrans are going to be having a field day. Neither the main or the natural are particularly vulnerable to Mutalisk harass, and the thin ridges and thin ramps make turtling vs Protoss a dream. Flash, in particular, is going to love this map since he can sit there and do nothing and not get punished for it!

While Terrans will be happy against both Protoss and Zerg, I think that the Zerg are going to be very happy against Protoss as well. Lurkers are going to be great here - and setting up a contain should be no problem. So once again Protoss are going to have to endure a season of Lurker contains - not that Heartbreak wasn't bad enough already. The wide open center is a dream for Zerg as well since it allows for nice easy flanks.

All in all there isn't much to comment about this map since it's very bland and standard. I think the games will reflect that, as in there will be little variation from game to game. Although I will say this, I really enjoy watching Flash turtle (zero sarcasm I swear) so hopefully this season Flash will abuse this map as hard as he can and finally win his second OSL Gold.


Group A - Preview

(P) PusanHeartbreak RidgeEl NiñoEye of the Storm(T) fOrGG
(P) 101 - 76 (T)(P) 83-59 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(T) 55 - 47 (P)
Note: Map Order is not definite, that will be announced later

Ah glorious! The matchup code used to generate the above table tells no lies. It draws the total statistics for each player and map - including the special events games. Thus, those statistics are significantly more accurate than just the televised games statistics. And low-and-behold, Heartbreak Ridge is sitting at a 58.5% Protoss win rate over Terran. With a sample size of over 100 games, this constitutes a clear imbalance. Additionally, the player statistics presented here are the total PvT/TvP winrate - including preliminaries.

Seeing Pusan back into the OSL makes me incredibly happy and with no Zergs in his group he has a real shot at qualifying. Both fOrGG and PuSan are macro players so their encounter here should be massive (i.e. lots of units). Additionally, PuSan has an edge over fOrGG in that he is a very clever player (as with everyone from MBC except Jaehoon) so the fact that they will be playing the opening games on these new maps works to his advantage. I must concede that fOrGG is probably the better player right now. But fOrGG's TvP doesn't look very strong - his last series against a good player was against Stork where he was 0-3'd. Meanwhile, Pusan just hasn't played many games at all and is 3-7 in his last 10 PvT's.

Pusan just went 12-0 in both qualifiers, and I'm really really hoping that that wasn't a fluke. Pusan has all the capabilities of being a top tier gamer (and so far is the only neo-King not to have a title) and fully deserves to destroy fOrGG. At the end of the day though, if you want to keep your money safe, bet on fOrGG - even though he is infamous for failure.

WinnerHeartbreak RidgeEl NiñoEye of the Storm(T) Canata
(P) 101 - 76 (T)(P) 83-59 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(T) 40 - 33 (P)
(P) 56 - 46 (P)(P) 54 games (T)(P) 0 games (T)(P) 0 games (T)(T) 53 - 45 (P)
Note: Map Order is not definite, that will be announced later

Canata is known for his TvT above all else, but I remember Canata for a different reason. I remember Canata for i-Station ODT. Pusan and Canata met in Game 1 on 815 and again in Game 5 on Rush Hour III. Pusan won their first encounter easily, the Rush Hour game was one of the best games ever played. It is still probably my favorite game, even though Canata won. Since Pusan lost to Canata in that game, he has not return to the top 16. It is only fitting that should Pusan advance to the OSL, that he advance through Canata. Should Pusan meet Canata here, I have no doubt that the resulting series will be amazing.

However the more probable scenario is that Canata gets to dust off his TvT and go to work on fOrGG. fOrGG's record in TvT is 56-46, very similar to Canata's. I don't really know who I would give the edge to here, simply because fOrGG is prone to failure. I guess I will go with Canata because I think overall he has a better understanding of TvT and on new maps thats the best asset in the world. So to summarize, Canata > fOrGG or Pusan > Canata. (no bias I swear).


Group B - Preview

(T) ReallyHeartbreak RidgeEl NiñoEye of the Storm(Z) Shine
(T) 35-40 (Z)(T) 61-64 (Z)(P) 0-0 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(T) 23 - 24 (T)
Note: Map Order is not definite, that will be announced later

Really and Shine are both players who have shown moments of brilliance, and then moments that would make you gouge your eyes out. Additionally I have no idea how either is playing right now - I think Really is playing better, but that just might be estro bias creeping through. Heartbreak is a balanced TvZ map as well - which just makes deciding between these two players even more difficult. You probably have better luck predicting the result of this mach by flipping a coin. Nevertheless, the winner of this match doesn't matter because....

WinnerHeartbreak RidgeEl NiñoEye of the Storm(T) Bisu
(T) 38 - 28 (P)(P) 59-83 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(T) 105-65 (P)
(Z) 23 - 11 (P)(Z) 83-63 (P)(P) 0 games (T)(P) 0 games (T)(P) 90 - 45 (Z)
Note: Map Order is not definite, that will be announced later

Bisu is going to win here regardless of his opponent. Bisu is just in a different class to these guys and should have no problems. With that said, the question become which player will produce the better games against Bisu. Really vs Bisu has been done quite a lot before, and it's not particularly interesting. Shine has a pretty good ZvP (his stats speak for themselves) and with Bisu's legendary PvZ (and an imbalanced map to boot) I think the resulting series would be pretty cool. Of course, if Bisu lost he would complain bitterly about the maps in his interviews, but hey - he should have no problems.. right?


Group C - Preview


(P) CalmHeartbreak RidgeEl NiñoEye of the Storm(T) Reality
(T) 56 - 37 (Z)(T) 64 - 61 (Z)(P) 0 - 0 (T)(P) 0 - 0 (T)(T) 3 - 3 (T)
Note: Map Order is not definite, that will be announced later

I see this matchup and I think to myself "Ahhhh, fresh meat" in the voice of the Butcher from Diablo. Reality is a brand new progamer and after his first set of prelims he makes the OSL. Good job son! But now you have to face reigning MSL Champion and all around beast, Calm. This isn't going to be pretty. Calm is going to dissect Reality - hopefully Reality can take something educational out of the experience.

WinnerHeartbreak RidgeEl NiñoEye of the Storm(T) Backho
(T) 5 - 4 (P)(P) 59-83 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(P) 0-0 (T)(T) 45 - 35 (P)
(Z) 57 - 37 (P)(Z) 83-63 (P)(P) 0 games (T)(P) 0 games (T)(P) 39 - 43 (Z)
Note: Map Order is not definite, that will be announced later

For completeness I listed Reality's stats, but in all fairness he just isn't going to beat Calm. So let's focus on Calm vs Backho. Calm is a monster Zerg right now and he has proven that he can over come any obstacle - even Jaedong - when he applies himself. Backho on the other hand, has a traditionally weak PvZ - as was exploited by July in their OSL Semifinal. So on one hand you have an intelligent inform Zerg and on the other you have a mindless cheesy Protoss. There is no way that Calm is going to lose to Backho - and with this decisive victory, Calm will move on to his first OSL (and rightfully so). Similarly, Backho will make an long overdue exit from the OSL.


So there you have it. Groups A and B will be played out on Wednesday 1700 KST (it's going to be a busy night!) while Group C is going to be played out on Friday 1830 KST. To watch, you can either sign up to OGN and watch their stream (details are in featured threads) or you can hope that some kind soul will stream the games on their livestream. Make sure you check the OP of the OSL Group X thread for all the details about who is streaming those games.

Plexa
Facebook Twitter Reddit
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
wodesanchoon
Profile Joined August 2009
25 Posts
October 11 2009 05:41 GMT
#2
Really excellent write-up.
kineSiS-
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
Korea (South)1068 Posts
October 11 2009 05:58 GMT
#3
Nice.
Spenguin
Profile Blog Joined November 2007
Australia3316 Posts
October 11 2009 06:24 GMT
#4
Brilliant write-up Plexa welcome back to the news articles I look forward to more
< TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #46 > I came for the Brood War, I stayed for the people.
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8556 Posts
October 11 2009 06:26 GMT
#5
Oh yay individual leagues again!
Thanks for taking up the mantle of OSL coverage, a very thorough preview.
Jaedong
Mortician
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Bulgaria2332 Posts
October 11 2009 06:31 GMT
#6
I dont completely agree with the notes on Ridge, It is really hard for Zerg late game
"If anything, the skill cap in sc2 is higher [than sc1] because there are a lot more things you can do at one given time. " darmousseh
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-11 06:37:25
October 11 2009 06:36 GMT
#7
On October 11 2009 15:31 Mortician wrote:
I dont completely agree with the notes on Ridge, It is really hard for Zerg late game

It's also really hard for the other races during other parts of the game. Like protoss vs zerg midgame. The statistics presented in the latter half agree with my assertions in my analysis of heartbreak. Midgame zerg is so strong vs P on Heartbreak that the late game drawbacks never really come into play. Hence why Z>P about 58% (like P>T).
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
stevethemacguy
Profile Joined September 2008
United States137 Posts
October 11 2009 06:45 GMT
#8
On October 11 2009 15:31 Mortician wrote:
I dont completely agree with the notes on Ridge, It is really hard for Zerg late game


I agree. I don't play zerg, but I've always thought it was better for P against Z. Getting a fourth base is REALLY hard on this map, which is something Protoss can do with out longer than Zergs. From the games I've watched, I usually see one of two things 1. two-Hatch rushes from Zerg to end the game quick or 2. They hold out on three Bases just long enough to build a big army and make a big push to secure another base, and usually the game. Either way, personally, I find PvZ on this map very entertaining.
"What we do in life, echoes in eternity" -maximus decimus meridius
ShaperofDreams
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Canada2492 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-11 06:52:32
October 11 2009 06:50 GMT
#9
For some reason I feel that Flash should kick some tail this season. It feels right.

Bisu and Backho are listen as terran :S
Bitches don't know about my overlord. FUCK OFF ALDARIS I HAVE ENOUGH PYLONS. My Balls are as smooth as Eggs.
konadora *
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Singapore66356 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-11 07:09:03
October 11 2009 07:08 GMT
#10
Group A and B are gonna be real good.
POGGERS
Marine50
Profile Joined September 2007
Australia1764 Posts
October 11 2009 08:07 GMT
#11
...on the other you have a mindless cheesy Protoss. [Backho]

Yes!

I hope Pusan, Bisu and Reality can get threw
IRIS FIGHTING!!!
meegrean
Profile Joined May 2008
Thailand7699 Posts
October 11 2009 09:03 GMT
#12
Would be funny if Bisu gets eliminated by Really
Brood War loyalist
BloodDrunK
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bangladesh2767 Posts
October 11 2009 09:14 GMT
#13
gonna be a great tourney.hoping bisu gets through.
You have the power to create your own destiny.
Zinbiel
Profile Joined October 2008
Sweden878 Posts
October 11 2009 09:22 GMT
#14
backho will win ez
Backho fan since 080416. Favourite terran: Mind. Favourite Zerg: Jaedong.
icystorage
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Jollibee19350 Posts
October 11 2009 09:50 GMT
#15
nice im rooting for calm to advance!
LiquidDota StaffAre you ready for a Miracle-? We are! The International 2017 Champions!
Zavior
Profile Joined August 2009
Finland753 Posts
October 11 2009 10:21 GMT
#16
Thanks for the article!
lakrismamma
Profile Joined August 2006
Sweden543 Posts
October 11 2009 10:49 GMT
#17
Pusan fighting!
I hear thunder but theres no rain. This type of thunder breaks walls and window panes.
tyr
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
France1686 Posts
October 11 2009 12:49 GMT
#18
While I agree with you that Calm will win against Backho, I don't think you can count him out like that.
He can always do some crazy strategy no one has ever seen before and maybe take a game or something. That guy is just so unpredictable.
"I'm always reminded of how manly Jaedong is every time I see him." -Bisu
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 11 2009 13:06 GMT
#19
Its not incomprehensible that Backho could win a game against calm - but a bo3 series?
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Excalibur
Profile Joined September 2009
United States58 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-11 13:54:21
October 11 2009 13:52 GMT
#20
I would hate to be Really, Shine or Reality here.

Really and Shine, no matter who wins, you still lose to Beastu (Yes, Beastu, like beast stew, tis what I call him.), and for Reality, well, Calm beat Jaedong and has been doing great lately, and if that isn't enough of a reason to be scared shitless before the match starts I don't know what is.

I see Canata, Bisu, and Calm coming out of this personally, with Canata being the only one who is not a definite.

On the reverse if by some miracle Bisu loses, be prepared for a fanboy shitstorm. (And lots of map flaming interviews. )
Whats a 4pool?
RamenStyle
Profile Joined September 2004
United States1929 Posts
October 11 2009 14:02 GMT
#21
Your Group A writting is so biased towards MBC... Although I also hope Pusan goes thru. I dislike both fOrGG and Canata.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 11 2009 14:31 GMT
#22
I make zero apologies for my bias
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
John49ers
Profile Joined May 2009
United States237 Posts
October 11 2009 14:58 GMT
#23
On October 11 2009 22:52 Excalibur wrote:
I would hate to be Really, Shine or Reality here.

Really and Shine, no matter who wins, you still lose to Beastu (Yes, Beastu, like beast stew, tis what I call him.), and for Reality, well, Calm beat Jaedong and has been doing great lately, and if that isn't enough of a reason to be scared shitless before the match starts I don't know what is.

I see Canata, Bisu, and Calm coming out of this personally, with Canata being the only one who is not a definite.

On the reverse if by some miracle Bisu loses, be prepared for a fanboy shitstorm. (And lots of map flaming interviews. )



Beastu. Haha I like it.

Nice write up OP.
“The beauty of Bill's system was that there was always a place to go with the ball, ... I was the mailman, just delivering people's mail, and there were all kinds of houses to go to.”-Joe Montana
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
October 11 2009 15:20 GMT
#24
i hate the decisiveness of the calm vs backho article; its asking for some disgusting upset that will leave me in tears.
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
BookTwo
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
1985 Posts
October 11 2009 15:39 GMT
#25
huzzah for plexa
blahman3344
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2015 Posts
October 11 2009 17:05 GMT
#26
hmm...i really like the style of el Nino
or it could be that i just like ice maps in general lol
I like haikus and / I can not lie. You other / brothers can't deny
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
October 11 2009 17:21 GMT
#27
Why do all ice maps use dirt instead of snow as the main terrain? it looks so ugly >.<
:)
OSLschedule
Profile Joined October 2009
5 Posts
October 11 2009 17:36 GMT
#28
Where can i find the full OSL lineup and schedule
okay nvmd
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21244 Posts
October 11 2009 19:18 GMT
#29
Calm for Royal Road imo.
TranslatorBaa!
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-11 19:40:48
October 11 2009 19:23 GMT
#30
On October 12 2009 02:21 synapse wrote:
Why do all ice maps use dirt instead of snow as the main terrain? it looks so ugly >.<

Uh... Use snow as the main terrain and you'll be snowblind after playing for a few hours... it really isn't pleasant at all, and that's why I really don't like the ice tileset, either.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Last Romantic
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
United States20661 Posts
October 11 2009 21:12 GMT
#31
http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=61613

Instantly thought of this upon reading title
ㅋㄲㅈㅁ
KOFgokuon
Profile Blog Joined August 2004
United States14899 Posts
October 11 2009 21:28 GMT
#32
go bisu go!
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 11 2009 21:50 GMT
#33
On October 12 2009 02:36 OSLschedule wrote:
Where can i find the full OSL lineup and schedule

Either http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=103143 or simply check the TL calender - it has all the information you need

On October 12 2009 02:21 synapse wrote:
Why do all ice maps use dirt instead of snow as the main terrain? it looks so ugly >.<

Because when you are practicing on a map that is really really bright for long periods of time it damages your eyes, hence why they used dirt and tend to avoid using ice maps in general
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
disciple
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
9070 Posts
October 11 2009 23:30 GMT
#34
Group A is perhaps the most balanced in terms of players skills. I have no clue what should we expect from Pusan, its been a while since he last played a TV match.
Administrator"I'm a big deal." - ixmike88
OSLschedule
Profile Joined October 2009
5 Posts
October 12 2009 02:27 GMT
#35
Thank you very much Plexa, I am new to the site and the calendar is very handy
okay nvmd
Brokenlamp
Profile Joined June 2009
United States39 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-12 04:32:12
October 12 2009 04:31 GMT
#36
Don't crucify me if these stats are wrong but...

I counted up the ZvP games on HBR on the TLDP and got 84-62 Z>P. Which is pretty close to 60%. But I then looked at the top tier of Protoss to see how they do on the map, and I got this:

(arbitrarily determined the top tier as players who are either still in the OSL/MSL or have had success in the recent past)
+ Show Spoiler +
Bisu - 3-3
Stork - 2-2
Jangbi - 1-1
Best - 0-3
Free - 0-0
Kal - 2-3
Horang2 1-2
Movie - 2-1
Violet - 3-3
Pure - 3-2
Backho - 2-1
=
19-21 or 47.5% winrate

and rounding out the rest I got:
Pusan - 1-0
Guemchi - 2-0
Shuttle - 3-0
Stats - 3-3
Sangho - 2-1
Anytime - 0-1
Much - 1-1
Jaehoon - 1-1
han - 3-0 (in the MSL)
nbs - 2-0 (in the MSL)
=
18-7 or 72%


for a total record of just about 60% P>Z (37-28)
So I guess what I'm saying is that while as a whole, especially with the lower ranked protoss, the map is pretty obscenely unbalanced, the really really good protosses do much better. Only a few of these games were against lower tier players too. I think its fair to predict that Protoss will probably go about 50% on this map in both OSL and MSL (and proleague) where only the better Tosses are playing. At least I hope so. I guess you just have to cross a certain skill threshold to make this map's natural imbalances obsolete.

Sorry if my player selection is biased or lacking, but I think its a pretty decent and fair sample nonetheless.
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 12 2009 04:34 GMT
#37
I would be interested to see what happens when you do the same thing but for the top level zergs
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
Brokenlamp
Profile Joined June 2009
United States39 Posts
October 12 2009 06:45 GMT
#38
You asked for it. As expected the zergs do pretty well...
once again please forgive the arbitrary nature of my 20 zerg sample:

+ Show Spoiler +

Jaedong - 4-3
Calm - 5-0 (owns this map 10-1 overall)
Effort - 2-2
Yarnc - 1-1
Kwanro - 1-0

Luxury - 1-2
July - 4-0
Zero - 3-2
type b - 1-1
hero - 2-1
= 24-12 = 66.6% (61.3% without calm)

great - 4-0
hyuk - 3-1
saint - 1-0
hyvaa - 0-1
savior - 0-0

orion - 1-0
hoejja - 6-2 (apparently a fan)
roro - 1-1
hogil - 2-1
Thezerg - 0-1
= 18-7 = 72%


total = 42-19 = 68.9% But most of the skewedness of the data is coming from 4 players alone, while the tosses tended to have similar results across the board. Also, I noticed that many of the toss players were beating zergs who are technically better then them, while the zergs tended to beating tosses who were on their level. HOWEVER, to prove that would require waay more data mining than I'm up for at the moment.

Suffice it to say...as long as its not Calm (or HoeJJa?) playing, most high level protoss players can likely hang with any high level zerg. Of course, this is provided that every good toss isnt slumping at the same time again.

(just fyi, the record without calm, great, july, and HoeJJa is 23-17, which is back down to 57.5%...however, that is a gross manipulation of statistics and in no way proves my argument in any way. But its interesting to know.)
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 12 2009 07:08 GMT
#39
Thus at the end of the day it's still a difficult PvZ map
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
FakeKisser
Profile Joined September 2008
United States159 Posts
October 12 2009 14:29 GMT
#40
Thanks for this write-up! I find the sections about the new maps especially helpful. I'm looking forward to some good games. This round should be fun, but I agree that the real OSL starts after.
"Every generation needs a revolution" - Thomas Jefferson
RoieTRS
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States2569 Posts
October 12 2009 15:53 GMT
#41
This'll be the start
of something new
it feels so right
to be here with you.
konadora, in Racenilatr's blog: "you need to stop thinking about starcraft or anything computer-related for that matter. It's becoming a bad addiction imo"
[)ark_Archer
Profile Joined May 2009
United States28 Posts
October 12 2009 20:53 GMT
#42
Great write up. I think you hit all of these right on the nose. Bisu and Calm will butcher the competion.
Why are they called elevators when half the time they go down?
sushiman
Profile Joined September 2003
Sweden2691 Posts
October 12 2009 21:31 GMT
#43
Go BackHo and Canata!

...group B I don't care about.
1000 at least.
GTR
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
51492 Posts
October 13 2009 02:42 GMT
#44
Map Order:
Game 1: Eye of the Storm
Game 2: El Niño
Game 3: Heartbreak Ridge
Commentator
Geo.Rion
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
7377 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-10-13 10:35:50
October 13 2009 10:35 GMT
#45
"But then we come to ZvP and well, this map is no where near balanced again. During the prelims the Z>P winrate here approached 60%. Which is a clear indication that something has gone wrong."


You really should explain what's that something, because i dont see how is HBR Z>P. That 60% prelim stat says nothing to me.

Other than that, good work
"Protoss is a joke" Liquid`Jinro Okt.1. 2011
Vacagodxx
Profile Joined October 2009
United States18 Posts
October 13 2009 20:02 GMT
#46
omfg, if bisu lost... and the fanboys... and the map-bitching...
well, back to reality,
i really wanna see a few interesting PvZ games. i think with the diverse auxiliary strategies that zerg has to think up to adapt to HBR, the creative zergs are gunna shine.
Make some noise!
Elroi
Profile Joined August 2009
Sweden5599 Posts
October 13 2009 22:29 GMT
#47
Brilliant how you can write in a personal tone without ever being biased.
"To all eSports fans, I want to be remembered as a progamer who can make something out of nothing, and someone who always does his best. I think that is the right way of living, and I'm always doing my best to follow that." - Jaedong. /watch?v=jfghAzJqAp0
Grobyc
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada18410 Posts
October 14 2009 02:34 GMT
#48
thanks for the writeup plexa
If you watch Godzilla backwards it's about a benevolent lizard who helps rebuild a city and then moonwalks into the ocean.
MutaDoom
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Canada1163 Posts
October 14 2009 02:37 GMT
#49
El Nino looks pretty badass :D
Alur
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Denmark3900 Posts
October 14 2009 11:03 GMT
#50
The intro for the OSL groups a b c etc is handdrawn. I'm expecting a repeat of
AKA No can Dazzle | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PlTpX7z3Pok
TL+ Member
haster27
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
Taiwan809 Posts
October 14 2009 16:27 GMT
#51
Wouldn't it be sad as hell if the Reality by some miracle ended up dominating his group
dl2agon
Profile Joined June 2009
United States473 Posts
October 14 2009 23:28 GMT
#52
On October 14 2009 05:02 Vacagodxx wrote:
omfg, if bisu lost... and the fanboys... and the map-bitching...
well, back to reality,
i really wanna see a few interesting PvZ games. i think with the diverse auxiliary strategies that zerg has to think up to adapt to HBR, the creative zergs are gunna shine.


BISU JUST LOST TO SHINE
Djzapz
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Canada10681 Posts
October 15 2009 23:02 GMT
#53
Wait wait.... Bisu lost... I'm a fanboy and I don't really know how the tournament system works. Is he out of the OSL?
"My incompetence with power tools had been increasing exponentially over the course of 20 years spent inhaling experimental oven cleaners"
Plexa
Profile Blog Joined October 2005
Aotearoa39261 Posts
October 16 2009 01:26 GMT
#54
Yea he's eliminated
Administrator~ Spirit will set you free ~
the nooby SC kid
Profile Joined August 2009
Canada14 Posts
October 17 2009 19:09 GMT
#55
wow cant belive shine just beat bisu. well hope that flah woudlnt havethe same fate as him. FLASH i belive ^^.
hi people
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Replay Cast
09:00
Crank Gathers S2: Playoffs D2
CranKy Ducklings161
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
OGKoka 212
StarCraft: Brood War
Hyuk 3777
Flash 1357
Shuttle 531
actioN 445
firebathero 414
Mong 164
Mini 136
PianO 69
Aegong 47
Sharp 36
[ Show more ]
JulyZerg 33
Shine 31
Sea.KH 28
Free 24
Liquid`Ret 20
Sacsri 19
yabsab 18
soO 17
HiyA 8
Icarus 6
Dota 2
Gorgc2598
ODPixel740
XcaliburYe465
canceldota130
League of Legends
JimRising 680
Counter-Strike
fl0m948
allub118
Heroes of the Storm
Khaldor87
Other Games
singsing1858
B2W.Neo479
Pyrionflax308
nookyyy 34
QueenE4
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL7288
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Jankos3196
• Lourlo452
Upcoming Events
Epic.LAN
21m
WardiTV Invitational
36m
ByuN vs Spirit
herO vs Solar
MaNa vs Gerald
Rogue vs GuMiho
CrankTV Team League
1h 21m
BASILISK vs Team Liquid
Epic.LAN
1d
BSL Team A[vengers]
1d 2h
Dewalt vs Shine
UltrA vs ZeLoT
BSL 21
1d 7h
BSL Team A[vengers]
2 days
Cross vs Motive
Sziky vs HiyA
BSL 21
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
3 days
[ Show More ]
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 2025 AUTUMN (S18)
WardiTV TLMC #15
Eternal Conflict S1

Ongoing

BSL 21 Points
BSL 21 Team A
C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
KCM Race Survival 2025 Season 4
SOOP Univ League 2025
CranK Gathers Season 2: SC II Pro Teams
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025

Upcoming

SC4ALL: Brood War
YSL S2
BSL Season 21
SLON Tour Season 2
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
RSL Offline Finals
WardiTV 2025
RSL Revival: Season 3
Stellar Fest
SC4ALL: StarCraft II
META Madness #9
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026: Closed Qualifier
eXTREMESLAND 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
SL Budapest Major 2025
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.