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[MSL] Dogfight

Forum Index > News
105 CommentsPost a Reply
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[MSL] Dogfight

Text byHot_Bid
August 29th, 2009 22:33 GMT
Note: This post contains spoilers from GOM, OSL, and STX Masters.


[image loading]

Banner by alffla

Clash of the Titans Underdogs
Avalon MSL Finals Preview and Semifinal B Recap

dog•fight [dawg-fahyt, dog-] noun, verb, -fought, -fight⋅ing.
1. a violent fight using Zerglings
2. a fight between two players who should have lost by now
3. Avalon MSL Finals

Who honestly believed it would come to this? Kwanro was on the same side of the bracket as Flash and Bisu. Calm was on the same side of the bracket as Effort and Jaedong. And here we are, with a ZvZ final between two guys who didn't expect to be here. This looks like a bad Survivor Group Winners match, not the Finals of the entire Avalon MSL. As I write this, the MSL organizers and Avalon Online creators collectively groan, because a grand total of twelve people will attend this event live. This is now the second straight MSL Final that contains no "star power." Luxury and Jangbi was bad enough without being a mirror match. Will anyone care about this final?


Semifinal B: Yes We Kwanro
Kwanro 3-2 Iris | Live Report Thread

(Z)Kwanro < (T)Sneaky Dropships @ Byzantium 3
+ Show Spoiler [VOD] +
+ Show Spoiler [Recap] +
Kwanro opens up ballsy, going 3 hatch before pool. Iris opts for fac-cc, making a vulture or two before switching to marines and medics. Kwanro starts massing hydras from his three hatches, and forces Iris' first mm group to retreat, eventually crushing it with mass hydra and some nice medic sniping. Kwanro breaks the bunker at Iris' front, but can't beat SCVs+MM (medics healing SCVs is strong). Iris adds tanks with siege while Kwanro morphs lurkers, starts hive, and takes another base.

Iris snakes a dropship into Kwanro's main, forcing drones to run and getting his defiler mound, while Kwanro counters into Iris' nat. Kwanro's two groups of hydras and five lurkers break the bunker, marines, and four tanks, but Kwanro pushes too far into Iris' main, losing his force. Kwanro cleans up the drop in his main and resumes mining. Even though Iris' nat was broken, he saved most of his SCVs and his CC, so he's still in a good position. Iris moves out with his first vessel, and while Kwanro can defend his natural with swarm, he cannot save his expansion, and his main gets hit with another drop. Kwanro GGs.

(Z)Kwanro < (T)Sunken Break @ Carthage 3
+ Show Spoiler [VOD] +
+ Show Spoiler [Recap] +
Kwanro opens 9-pool, while Iris goes rax-cc-rax and seals his natural choke with a depot and CC. Iris takes his nat with seven marines, and moves out once he gets academy. Kwanro's spire is almost completed when Iris arrives at his natural with nine marines, two bats, and two medics. Kwanro's third sunken and returning lings are slightly late, and Iris breaks with just a handful of mm left over. But the damage has been done -- Kwanro lost many drones defending, and Iris is 100% ready for the mutas, with turrets all over his main and natural. Kwanro attempts to muta harass but instead just gets slaughtered by a huge mm group.

(Z)Plague and Cows > (T)Iris @ Outsider
+ Show Spoiler [VOD] +
+ Show Spoiler [Recap] +
Kwanro opens 12-hatch, and drone scouts Iris opening fast gas. Iris goes fac-port-cc, laying mines and using the wraith to scout. Kwanro goes lair with den and spire both, adding a back natural expansion. Iris' wraith is only able to snipe one ovie due to nice hydra placement. Iris has turrets up in time, and the mutas can't really do much. Iris already has vessel and is researching irradiate while switching to mm. Iris lands one decent irradiate that Kwanro splits away slightly slow. Kwanro has been morphing hive, and delays just long enough to get swarm.

Kwanro gets off a plague or two and does an admirable job of defending even though he allows a drop in his main to do a bit of damage. Even though Kwanro's micro hasn't been perfect, he's been mining four gas for quite a while and his plagues and swarms have easily rebuffed Iris' now completely SK army. Iris dropship harasses and takes a fourth base, but he can't crack any of Kwanro's mining bases (Kwanro has taken another main gas with a nydus). Kwanro's tech reaches upgraded ultralisk, and he's helped by Iris suiciding 10+ vessels to plague and mutas. Eventually, no amount of mm can stop ultra-defiler, and Kwanro runs Iris over.

(Z)Infolings > (T)Iris @ Heartbreak Ridge
+ Show Spoiler [VOD] +
+ Show Spoiler [Recap] +
Iris opens rax-depot-gas, while Kwanro opens 9-pool. Iris did this weird rax proxy lift thing, making his first marine outside his main, but manages to just get it back in and blocking the rush. Iris proxies a factory on the cliff overlooking Kwanro's main, but Kwanro smartly keeps lings around the edges and spots it, delaying its landing long enough to get hydras. Iris pushed a vulture through the back mineral, but a quick drone trap kills it. Iris thus far has lost several vultures and killed no drones, and his next attack (a wraith) doesn't fare any better, as hydras prevent it from getting more than one overlord kill. Iris then drops MM in Kwanro's main, but Kwanro defends easily with hydras.

Iris seems quite behind as he hasn't even gotten a natural CC yet, and is on 3-rax vessel while Kwanro has 3 gas and is getting hive. Iris drops Kwanro's natural and main again, and this time is more successful but doesn't do critical damage. Kwanro hits Iris front with lurkers, and actually runs into Iris' main but gets cleaned up before doing too much damage. Iris pushes out with a group of mm and three tanks, but the army is easily crushed by Kwanro's much larger hydra lurker ling army, and when Iris moves out again, Kwanro has defiler. Iris did OK given that it was one base vs three, but once the fast vultures didn't earn their cost, Kwanro was firmly in the lead and never let up.

(Z)Speedling Harass > (T)Iris @ Byzantium 3
+ Show Spoiler [VOD] +
+ Show Spoiler [Recap] +
Kwanro opens pool-gas while Iris opens standard. Had Kwanro guessed the right spot, the game might have been over, but Iris scouts his lings and blocks with SCVs. Still, Kwanro manages to get in, trading speedlings for four SCVs and three marines. Four speedlings remain with more rallies coming, and Iris is forced to pull half his SCVs to defend. Kwanro loses a drone in his main to the scouting SCV but has started lair, while Iris keeps losing marines to speedlings before finally completely his academy and getting two firebats. Kwanro has a reduced drone count but has started his spire. Iris finally clears his main of zerglings and moves out with his mm group, making a CC at home. Kwanro gets sunkens safely up in time, and drones hard before making mutas, which force Iris' army to go home.

Iris' turrets are slightly late, and Kwanro does some nice muta harass but is a bit too aggressive with his mutas, losing several. Iris cannot take his natural yet, and can't mass a large enough marine force because his units keep getting picked off. Iris can't protect his newly spawned marines from mutas and Kwanro's eco just keeps getting stronger. Kwanro gets lurkers and does a muta-lurker attack, which Iris holds with some sick mm and SCV micro, but the attack inflicts heavy damage. At this point it's only a matter of time, and The next lurker attack ends it.

Let's just take a second and think about this. Kwanro is in the MSL Finals. Effing Kwanro. He's been the butt of many a pokemon or Zerg rush joke, and look at him now. Even after his horrendous performance in Proleague playoffs, he's come back strong in the MSL. He's beaten two very skilled Terrans (Flash and Iris) to get here. Yet even when watching him in this Iris series, you can't help but think that Kwanro is a child of fortune. Yes, he got lucky. But you can't completely luck your way through a tournament. Kwanro delivered when it mattered, down 0-2 against an older brother teammate who had just rolled Alpha Zerg in the CJ swarm (Effort). 0-2 to 3-2 is something not many players can do. Apparently, Kwanro is one of those players.

Two CJ players made the finals of 2/3 of the individual leagues, and neither was Effort or Skyhigh. It's no secret that I'm a huge CJ fan so its obvious who I'll be cheering for here. But I can't help but be a little disappointed in the semifinals results. Iris was that guy I wanted to see there. He had his chance, up 2-0 in Daum OSL Finals versus GGPlay, and blew it. It'd be a nice story if Iris could redeem himself in this league (especially after losing so badly to Flash in GOM) but instead he choked again, dropping three straight to his teammate Kwanro after being up 2-0. Was this Iris' last chance? Sadly, I think so. Maybe we'll see him a few times in Proleague (even though Skyhigh passed him in the CJ hierarchy), but I don't see Iris making many more deep runs in the individual leagues.


Avalon MSL Finals Preview
(Z)Calm vs (Z)Kwanro
+ Show Spoiler [Statistics] +
Player / Matchup / Last 10 / Last 3 Months / Head-to-Head
Calm / ZvZ / 7-3 / 11-5 / 0-0
Kwanro / ZvZ / 5-5 / 7-5 / 0-0

Can Kwanro do the impossible and become the most "undeserving" individual league champion since Mind or Sync? In a clash of two underdogs, a true dogfight, Kwanro is the most underdoggish of them all. Calm is STX's Ace and the consensus favorite in this match, having defeated two of the best ZvZ players out there. All signs point to an easy win for Calm. But in a MSL Season where the unexpected upset became common, would anyone really be surprised if Kwanro won? Wouldn't that be more fitting for this MSL?

I'd feel a lot better about Calm had he not dropped two bad games to Luxury just a few days ago in WCG Korea. I'd feel a lot better about Kwanro if he hadn't padded his stats by playing Zero six times in the last month. In fact, in his last 10 ZvZs, Kwanro is 5-1 against Zero and 0-4 against everyone else. ZvZ is so utterly unpredictable now. On any particular day one player could beat the other. Kwanro's shaky nerves and sloppiness doesn't make me confident in him. I hope Kwanro can pull it out, but Calm seems more ready to be a champion. STX (if July doesn't count) has always been the bridesmaid (Hwasin, Kal) and never the bride. Calm could end that with a win. They need something to cheer about after getting all-killed by Hyuk last night.

So those of you unsure about whether to watch this MSL finals, please do. Witness the sheer ridiculousness of a battle between two guys no fans wanted. Watch because Kwanro kissing the trophy would be the most hilarious and awesome sight this year. Imagine the 50 "Kwanrolled" images that would crop up around the forums. Watch because Calm winning would be great for his team -- next season in Proleague we might see a new STX team with a true #1 Ace.

Most of all, watch because you'll regret not tuning in for the first ever starleague dogfight, and the last major Starcraft final for a long time.
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@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
uglymoose89
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States671 Posts
August 29 2009 22:40 GMT
#2
wooooooooooooooooo this is gonna be awesome! I'm a CJ fan but seeing Calm explode this season and make it to the finals is amazing. GOGO Kwanro!
Pakje
Profile Joined March 2009
Belgium288 Posts
August 29 2009 22:41 GMT
#3
yeahhh this is way better then jaedong vs bisu...
SynC[gm]
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States3127 Posts
August 29 2009 22:42 GMT
#4
Cool writeup, go Calm!!!
twitch.tv/dizzywee
KingFool
Profile Joined January 2008
Canada428 Posts
August 29 2009 22:42 GMT
#5
It's not something I'm willing to stay up for. In fact I'll probably end up spoiling the results for myself before I even watch it.
Stimin myself on a daily basis
3clipse
Profile Blog Joined September 2008
Canada2555 Posts
August 29 2009 22:43 GMT
#6
I, for one, am psyched to see Calm here.

Admittedly, Calm vs Iris would have been better.
Crimson
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States311 Posts
August 29 2009 22:44 GMT
#7
Good write up.

"Yes we Kwanro". GREAT!
drowned
Profile Joined August 2008
79 Posts
August 29 2009 22:44 GMT
#8
[x] at least one game with mid- or endgame ZvZ (if such things exists xD)
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8118 Posts
August 29 2009 22:50 GMT
#9
Calm vs iris woulda been awesome, but as long as Calm wins it will be the best final of the year.
Free Palestine
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
August 29 2009 22:55 GMT
#10
CHUUUUUUUUU! ::crackTHOOM::

At least, that's how I imagine the finals will progress.
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
Nylan
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States795 Posts
August 29 2009 22:56 GMT
#11
It just boggles the mind to think that whichever player wins will suddenly be more accomplished than both Fantasy and BeSt.

There is no justice in this world.
BeSt/Pure/Canata/Calm - I believe in Doh Jae Wook
TwoToneTerran
Profile Joined March 2009
United States8841 Posts
August 29 2009 23:03 GMT
#12
Not to mention Jangbi, Kal, and Iris. It's a painful truth.
Remember Violet.
hazelynut
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States2195 Posts
August 29 2009 23:03 GMT
#13
Didn't even realize MSL finals were tonight. This still might be more interesting than OSLs - who knows how ZvZs will turn out. + Show Spoiler +
hopefully not 3-0 stomp
Zerg | life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery | www.cstarleague.com <3
TheNessman
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
United States4158 Posts
August 29 2009 23:03 GMT
#14
im just going to watch, but miss colors so i dont know who is who, and then just root for whoever is winning atm. and then after each match i can be like "OH YEAH I WAS ROOTING FOR THAT GUY"
~~! youtube.com/xmungam1 !~~
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8118 Posts
August 29 2009 23:05 GMT
#15
On August 30 2009 07:56 Nylan wrote:
It just boggles the mind to think that whichever player wins will suddenly be more accomplished than both Fantasy and BeSt.

There is no justice in this world.


I hope you're referring to Kwanro and not Calm.
Free Palestine
simfarm
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Ireland75 Posts
August 29 2009 23:09 GMT
#16
Snore.
simfarm
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Ireland75 Posts
August 29 2009 23:09 GMT
#17
Why's there a pikachu in the banner?
sashkata
Profile Joined September 2008
Bulgaria3241 Posts
August 29 2009 23:11 GMT
#18
lol I enter tl, notice there is a new article, see Kwanro on the banner and my first thought really was "lol wtf? You made a thread about Hyuk and Kwanro being rivals???" ahahah Had absolutely forgotten that the season wasn't over. :D
Nylan
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
United States795 Posts
August 29 2009 23:11 GMT
#19
On August 30 2009 08:05 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 07:56 Nylan wrote:
It just boggles the mind to think that whichever player wins will suddenly be more accomplished than both Fantasy and BeSt.

There is no justice in this world.


I hope you're referring to Kwanro and not Calm.


I love Calm, but he has yet to reach Fantasy or pre-slump BeSt levels of skill, and both of them have come so close to winning only to fall short.
BeSt/Pure/Canata/Calm - I believe in Doh Jae Wook
hyst.eric.al
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States2332 Posts
August 29 2009 23:12 GMT
#20
nice writeup, sad results
Leta , BeSt, Calm fan forever! 김정우, I am sorry I ever lost faith in you.
Pyrthas
Profile Joined March 2007
United States3196 Posts
August 29 2009 23:16 GMT
#21
I feel so bad for Iris. I like Calm, and am rooting for him against Kwanro, but I would have loved to have seen Iris finally get an individual title. Oh well.
Neos
Profile Joined June 2009
United States400 Posts
August 29 2009 23:19 GMT
#22
Well.. this is my prediction:
[image loading]
739
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Bearded Elder29903 Posts
August 29 2009 23:19 GMT
#23
Go KWANROOOOOOOOO
WriterSalty oldboy that loves memes | One and only back-to-back Liquibet Winner
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
August 29 2009 23:22 GMT
#24
nice writeup
im seeing 3-1 to either Calm or Kwanro.
cheering for kwanro ofc
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
Jyvblamo
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada13788 Posts
August 29 2009 23:23 GMT
#25
[image loading]
I want Kwanroll to win just so I can laugh at this whole entire tournament.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8118 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-29 23:24:25
August 29 2009 23:23 GMT
#26
On August 30 2009 08:11 Nylan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 08:05 Ideas wrote:
On August 30 2009 07:56 Nylan wrote:
It just boggles the mind to think that whichever player wins will suddenly be more accomplished than both Fantasy and BeSt.

There is no justice in this world.


I hope you're referring to Kwanro and not Calm.


I love Calm, but he has yet to reach Fantasy or pre-slump BeSt levels of skill, and both of them have come so close to winning only to fall short.


I would say that this MSL yes he has. Even his stats this year are better than fantasy's. (and very comparible to Best from beginning of 2008 to right before getting 3-0ed by July).

assuming he wins this MSL, he's at least arguably the best player outside JD/bisu/flash (completely equal with effort/fantasy/stork).
Free Palestine
ghostWriter
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
United States3302 Posts
August 29 2009 23:29 GMT
#27
You shouldn't dismiss Mind like that. He really blossomed in that MSL and is still wemade's ace (although now it's mostly because there's really no one else to depend on). His road to the finals was no joke, he had to beat oov, savior and bisu back when they were all monsters.

But yeah, kwanro really doesn't feel like finalist material to me.
Sullifam
orcsmash
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada319 Posts
August 29 2009 23:31 GMT
#28
Clam = water based creature.

Lighting > water.

So Kwanro > Calm.

Makes sense.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
August 29 2009 23:33 GMT
#29
On August 30 2009 08:29 ghostWriter wrote:
You shouldn't dismiss Mind like that. He really blossomed in that MSL and is still wemade's ace (although now it's mostly because there's really no one else to depend on). His road to the finals was no joke, he had to beat oov, savior and bisu back when they were all monsters.

But yeah, kwanro really doesn't feel like finalist material to me.

well, every first time winner who wasn't very accomplished (Mind, Luxury, etc) are judged by how they perform after their first win. and Mind basically accomplished nothing since his MSL win, so he's definitely a "flop" winner.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Loanshark
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
China3094 Posts
August 29 2009 23:42 GMT
#30
MSL is going to to the dogs.
No dough, no go. And no mercy.
Jayme
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
United States5866 Posts
August 29 2009 23:45 GMT
#31
On August 30 2009 07:41 Pakje wrote:
yeahhh this is way better then jaedong vs bisu...

Id rather Kwanro and Calm in this finals than Bisu on the account that Bisu can't seem to win in the individual leagues at all.
Python is garbage, number 1 advocate of getting rid of it.
freelander
Profile Blog Joined December 2004
Hungary4707 Posts
August 29 2009 23:51 GMT
#32
On August 30 2009 08:45 Jayme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 07:41 Pakje wrote:
yeahhh this is way better then jaedong vs bisu...

Id rather Kwanro and Calm in this finals than Bisu on the account that Bisu can't seem to win in the individual leagues at all.


that's why he got like 4 titles
And all is illuminated.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
August 29 2009 23:52 GMT
#33
I hope that kwanro takes it, just so that he can essentially pick up the msl sync award. calm has staying power, but kwanro imo doesn't

PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
Gumbo
Profile Joined February 2009
Canada807 Posts
August 29 2009 23:52 GMT
#34
On August 30 2009 08:45 Jayme wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 07:41 Pakje wrote:
yeahhh this is way better then jaedong vs bisu...

Id rather Kwanro and Calm in this finals than Bisu on the account that Bisu can't seem to win in the individual leagues at all.


3 MSL = cant win in the individual leagues at all.
Si vis pacem, para bellum.
GHOSTCLAW
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States17042 Posts
August 29 2009 23:52 GMT
#35
On August 30 2009 08:51 freelander wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 08:45 Jayme wrote:
On August 30 2009 07:41 Pakje wrote:
yeahhh this is way better then jaedong vs bisu...

Id rather Kwanro and Calm in this finals than Bisu on the account that Bisu can't seem to win in the individual leagues at all.


that's why he got like 4 titles


maybe he's referring to just this season

bisu has consistantly been just good enough to continually get cheesed out of chances to win.
PhotographerLiquipedia. Drop me a pm if you've got questions/need help.
d(O.o)a
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Canada5066 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-29 23:53:55
August 29 2009 23:53 GMT
#36
[image loading]


swirls were too hard.
Hi.
gamecrazy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
United States421 Posts
August 29 2009 23:53 GMT
#37
There was a poll on ZvZ finals in OSL and MSL

http://www.teamliquid.net/poll/index.php?poll_id=380

gg, i voted OSL only
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8118 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-29 23:59:42
August 29 2009 23:57 GMT
#38
On August 30 2009 08:33 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 08:29 ghostWriter wrote:
You shouldn't dismiss Mind like that. He really blossomed in that MSL and is still wemade's ace (although now it's mostly because there's really no one else to depend on). His road to the finals was no joke, he had to beat oov, savior and bisu back when they were all monsters.

But yeah, kwanro really doesn't feel like finalist material to me.

well, every first time winner who wasn't very accomplished (Mind, Luxury, etc) are judged by how they perform after their first win. and Mind basically accomplished nothing since his MSL win, so he's definitely a "flop" winner.


I think Luxury was far more accomplished than mind was before they won their tittles. 2 OSL semis, indisputable #2 Zerg for a year, arguably best ZvT, etc.

+ Luxury totally totally totally deserved his title, super respectable run: hwasin, leta, zero (who before losing to lux has fucking amazing ZvZ), jangbi (well maybe he always sucked at PvZ and we only found out after the finals). Not that you said anything about his run (or minds for that matter, who probably had an even tougher run in his MSL), but I just wanted to re-emphasize to people who think last MSL was a joke. Only the finals sucked.
Free Palestine
Black Gun
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
Germany4482 Posts
August 30 2009 00:14 GMT
#39
it is quite a shame that this season the wcg korea tournament produced about the same amount of entertaining and memorable games as gom, osl and msl together....
"What am I supposed to do against this?" - "Lose!" :-]
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
August 30 2009 00:16 GMT
#40
On August 30 2009 09:14 Black Gun wrote:
it is quite a shame that this season the wcg korea tournament produced about the same amount of entertaining and memorable games as gom, osl and msl together....

Not in anyway could this be true.
Jaedong
Kazius
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Israel1456 Posts
August 30 2009 00:19 GMT
#41
On August 30 2009 08:23 Ideas wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 08:11 Nylan wrote:
On August 30 2009 08:05 Ideas wrote:
On August 30 2009 07:56 Nylan wrote:
It just boggles the mind to think that whichever player wins will suddenly be more accomplished than both Fantasy and BeSt.

There is no justice in this world.


I hope you're referring to Kwanro and not Calm.


I love Calm, but he has yet to reach Fantasy or pre-slump BeSt levels of skill, and both of them have come so close to winning only to fall short.


I would say that this MSL yes he has. Even his stats this year are better than fantasy's. (and very comparible to Best from beginning of 2008 to right before getting 3-0ed by July).

assuming he wins this MSL, he's at least arguably the best player outside JD/bisu/flash (completely equal with effort/fantasy/stork).


Quite frankly, Stork is FAR more accomplished than either Calm or Kwanro. Silvers don't count as much as gold, but they are a serious tie-breaker. If you're talking about current form, perhaps Calm can be put in the same league - but both Effort and Fantasy are still more formidable opponents across the leagues. Beating JD when he was practicing for his golden mouse is winning in ZvZ, not in ZvJ, as opposed to Fantasy beating JD like an unwanted stepson in the SPL finals, which was... well, Fantasy beating Jaedong like an unwanted stepson.
Friendship is like peeing yourself. Anyone can see it, but only you get that warm feeling.
MageKirby
Profile Joined July 2009
United States535 Posts
August 30 2009 00:19 GMT
#42
GO PIKACHU! +_+!
LCC
Profile Joined January 2009
Canada348 Posts
August 30 2009 00:21 GMT
#43
This is so surreal. It feels like a ro16 match but it's the finals.
Oxygen
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
Canada3581 Posts
August 30 2009 00:35 GMT
#44
Calm will prepare, go in confident, and crush Kwanro.
Dont drink and derive. TSL: Made with Balls.
dibban
Profile Joined July 2008
Sweden1279 Posts
August 30 2009 00:35 GMT
#45
Zzigh.
이제동 - 이영호 since '07.
orcsmash
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada319 Posts
August 30 2009 00:36 GMT
#46
Kwanro will 3-0 Calm.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8118 Posts
August 30 2009 00:39 GMT
#47
On August 30 2009 09:19 Kazius wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 08:23 Ideas wrote:
On August 30 2009 08:11 Nylan wrote:
On August 30 2009 08:05 Ideas wrote:
On August 30 2009 07:56 Nylan wrote:
It just boggles the mind to think that whichever player wins will suddenly be more accomplished than both Fantasy and BeSt.

There is no justice in this world.


I hope you're referring to Kwanro and not Calm.


I love Calm, but he has yet to reach Fantasy or pre-slump BeSt levels of skill, and both of them have come so close to winning only to fall short.


I would say that this MSL yes he has. Even his stats this year are better than fantasy's. (and very comparible to Best from beginning of 2008 to right before getting 3-0ed by July).

assuming he wins this MSL, he's at least arguably the best player outside JD/bisu/flash (completely equal with effort/fantasy/stork).


Quite frankly, Stork is FAR more accomplished than either Calm or Kwanro. Silvers don't count as much as gold, but they are a serious tie-breaker. If you're talking about current form, perhaps Calm can be put in the same league - but both Effort and Fantasy are still more formidable opponents across the leagues. Beating JD when he was practicing for his golden mouse is winning in ZvZ, not in ZvJ, as opposed to Fantasy beating JD like an unwanted stepson in the SPL finals, which was... well, Fantasy beating Jaedong like an unwanted stepson.


ofc stork is more accomplished, no one would argue that. but as for current form? Calm easily contends with the top.
Free Palestine
saikeraku
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada2933 Posts
August 30 2009 00:46 GMT
#48
You can do it Kwanro.
MountainDewJunkie
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States10341 Posts
August 30 2009 00:46 GMT
#49
I guess it's not a TL article unless someone is ragging on (P)JangBi and (Z)Luxury.

(Z)Kwanro beats (T)Iris and (T)Flash...

(Z)Calm beats (Z)Jaedong and (Z)EffOrt...

... How much more "deserving" can they be?!?!
[21:07] <Shock710> whats wrong with her face [20:50] <dAPhREAk> i beat it the day after it came out | <BLinD-RawR> esports is a giant vagina
AlwaysGG
Profile Joined March 2009
Taiwan952 Posts
August 30 2009 00:58 GMT
#50
calm fighting

but

pikachu fighting also!
Trust 神教教主 FlaSh | Believe 火心 EffOrt
iamho
Profile Joined June 2009
United States3347 Posts
August 30 2009 00:59 GMT
#51
On August 30 2009 08:19 Neos wrote:
Well.. this is my prediction:
[image loading]


rofl..
Scaramanga
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
Australia8090 Posts
August 30 2009 01:07 GMT
#52
the death of sc draws near, the first blow was the allkill last night, the final blow is if kwanro pulls it off and takes the msl
-_-
Loda talked about the fun counter, it's AdmiralBulldog on his natures prophet
7mk
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
Germany10157 Posts
August 30 2009 01:08 GMT
#53
wow Hot_Bid, you did the impossible and actually made me excited about these finals, nice fucking job.
Let the worst finals ever begin!!!
beep boop
MageKirby
Profile Joined July 2009
United States535 Posts
August 30 2009 01:16 GMT
#54
On August 30 2009 09:46 MountainDewJunkie wrote:
I guess it's not a TL article unless someone is ragging on (P)JangBi and (Z)Luxury.

(Z)Kwanro beats (T)Iris and (T)Flash...

(Z)Calm beats (Z)Jaedong and (Z)EffOrt...

... How much more "deserving" can they be?!?!


You noe, judging from this, doesnt Calm have the upper hand?
foeffa
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Belgium2115 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 01:23:16
August 30 2009 01:20 GMT
#55
I'm happy to see Pikachu go this deep in a league, because I have a soft spot for him. But yeah this 'll probably be disappointing either way. Nice write-up as always.
觀過斯知仁矣.
Disarray
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States1164 Posts
August 30 2009 01:46 GMT
#56
Can Kwanro do the impossible and become the most "undeserving" individual league champion since Mind or Sync?


as much as i hate Mind for ruining what should have been the last Savior/Bisu finals, to even hint that he didn't deserve that win (i think his bracket was july - xellos - oov - bisu ?) is pretty innacurate, he played great in those games and really did look like a player that was going to step up and stay S class. No clue about Sync though
Input limit reached. Please wait to perform more actions.
Nal_rAwr
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2611 Posts
August 30 2009 01:52 GMT
#57
Calm will win this MSL!
Nony is Bonjwa
ZBiR
Profile Blog Joined August 2003
Poland1092 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 02:05:15
August 30 2009 02:02 GMT
#58
On August 30 2009 10:46 Disarray wrote:
Show nested quote +
Can Kwanro do the impossible and become the most "undeserving" individual league champion since Mind or Sync?


as much as i hate Mind for ruining what should have been the last Savior/Bisu finals, to even hint that he didn't deserve that win (i think his bracket was july - xellos - oov - bisu ?) is pretty innacurate, he played great in those games and really did look like a player that was going to step up and stay S class. No clue about Sync though

Memory - Oov - Savior - Bisu

And I sooooo hope Calm wins this, despite not even liking him whatsoever ... Kwanro winning would be wrong in so many ways it's ridiculous.
So no fek
Profile Blog Joined June 2005
United States3001 Posts
August 30 2009 02:11 GMT
#59
I'm still bitter that Kwanro beat Iris. But I still like Pikachu Zerg, and want to see him roll Calm. Even if it's unlikely to happen.
#1 Shuttle fan - TeamLiquid CJ Entusman #36 BW4lyfe
chongu
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Malaysia2589 Posts
August 30 2009 02:13 GMT
#60
Its hard to admit or even accept that a player like kwanro could luck his way through twi-uber good terrans : (
Iris vs clam would have been EEEPPIIICCCCCCCCCC~~~~
SC2 is to BW, what coke is to wine.
SQneo
Profile Joined April 2009
Canada89 Posts
August 30 2009 02:29 GMT
#61
even tho im not a fan of either players, im hoping that calm will take this MSL.

please no more pikachu
!! har har
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 30 2009 02:43 GMT
#62
Even though Kwanro made it all the way to the finals, I really can't see him as an MSL champion. I watch his recent games, and he's still stupidly aggressive at times. He just doesn't have the champion mindset yet. Sure, he's improving, but he doesn't play like he deserves a title yet. As much as I'm a CJ fan, I really hope he doesn't win.
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
August 30 2009 02:47 GMT
#63
On August 30 2009 11:43 Saracen wrote:
Even though Kwanro made it all the way to the finals, I really can't see him as an MSL champion. I watch his recent games, and he's still stupidly aggressive at times. He just doesn't have the champion mindset yet. Sure, he's improving, but he doesn't play like he deserves a title yet. As much as I'm a CJ fan, I really hope he doesn't win.

how can you possibly be a CJ fan and hope one of them not win

wtf
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Saracen
Profile Blog Joined December 2007
United States5139 Posts
August 30 2009 02:50 GMT
#64
On August 30 2009 11:47 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 11:43 Saracen wrote:
Even though Kwanro made it all the way to the finals, I really can't see him as an MSL champion. I watch his recent games, and he's still stupidly aggressive at times. He just doesn't have the champion mindset yet. Sure, he's improving, but he doesn't play like he deserves a title yet. As much as I'm a CJ fan, I really hope he doesn't win.

how can you possibly be a CJ fan and hope one of them not win

wtf

Well, I'm not a diehard CJ fan like you (or most CJ fans). I just respect them much more than the other teams. And Kwanro just happens to be the CJ player I like the least, because I don't like his playing style, and I don't like the decisions he makes. He's improving by leaps and bounds since I first saw him get raped by Bisu in GOM MSL S4, but still... Sorry HB
tree.hugger
Profile Blog Joined May 2009
Philadelphia, PA10406 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 02:56:46
August 30 2009 02:52 GMT
#65
To think that this tournament was looking the likelier of the two to have a big final, ((P)Bisu v. (Z)Jaedong... ) and then ended up with this oddball match.

And you thought (P)JangBi v. (Z)Luxury wasn't a top tier finals!

+ Show Spoiler +

(Z)Calm > (Z)Kwanro
(Z)Calm < (Z)Kwanro
(Z)Calm > (Z)Kwanro
(Z)Calm < (Z)Kwanro
(Z)Calm < (Z)Kwanro

You watch, this is going to be the wackiest, back and forth, godawful finals of all time.
ModeratorEffOrt, Snow, GuMiho, and Team Liquid
ghermination
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States2851 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 03:16:00
August 30 2009 03:15 GMT
#66
The sad part is that i'm sure that LESS than 12 people will be attending to see this live, what a boring MSL finals. -_-

Edit: also like 3/4 of the comments are by CJ fans.
U Gotta Skate.
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9027 Posts
August 30 2009 03:18 GMT
#67
Hope ZvZ in SC2 will be better.
JWD
Profile Blog Joined October 2007
United States12607 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 03:23:39
August 30 2009 03:23 GMT
#68
I really hope Calm pulls this out, he deserves a title for his great performance in this MSL. And, more than that, Kwanro deserves to burn for somehow sneaking his way into this final. I don't like his playstyle and I feel he got a free pass when Iris beat Bisu and then rolled over and died in the semifinal. So, Calm fighting!

Thank you for the post HB, it met your usual high standard! I really like your writing, my goal is to use shorter sentences and still maintain paragraph flow. You do a good job with that.
✌
MuffinDude
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States3837 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 03:34:20
August 30 2009 03:26 GMT
#69
jangbi v lux isn't all dat bad of a matchup. Its like ggplay vs iris except without iris's fanbase.

and 3 - 0 for calm, hopefully, just hurry on with next msl where we can have a better finals.

And is it really going to be only 12 people?
Zerg can be so abusive sometimes | third member of the "loli is not a crime club" PM konadora to join!
Carnivorous Sheep
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Baa?21243 Posts
August 30 2009 03:40 GMT
#70
Calm will become the best Zerg in a year andi will scoff at you fools who called this match weak. Want to know why? This will be Calm's version of Savior vs. Silver, cementing his ascent to the top yo~!

Calm fighting ^^
TranslatorBaa!
Garnet
Profile Blog Joined February 2006
Vietnam9027 Posts
August 30 2009 03:50 GMT
#71
CLAM HWAITIN'!
Hot_Bid
Profile Blog Joined October 2003
Braavos36375 Posts
August 30 2009 03:52 GMT
#72
On August 30 2009 12:23 JWD wrote:
I really hope Calm pulls this out, he deserves a title for his great performance in this MSL. And, more than that, Kwanro deserves to burn for somehow sneaking his way into this final. I don't like his playstyle and I feel he got a free pass when Iris beat Bisu and then rolled over and died in the semifinal. So, Calm fighting!

Thank you for the post HB, it met your usual high standard! I really like your writing, my goal is to use shorter sentences and still maintain paragraph flow. You do a good job with that.

Thanks for the kind words, but I can't help but feel like I sort of mailed in these last few newsposts. I don't have the motivation to be super funny or put a lot of effort into it when the brackets suck so bad. So many mirrors, and no marquee matchups. We were even robbed of the JD-Effort QF. Nothing went right this MSL. We could've had a ridiculous semifinal of JD/Effort and Bisu/Flash, but alas it isn't meant to be.
@Hot_Bid on Twitter - ESPORTS life since 2010 - http://i.imgur.com/U2psw.png
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8118 Posts
August 30 2009 04:02 GMT
#73
On August 30 2009 12:52 Hot_Bid wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 12:23 JWD wrote:
I really hope Calm pulls this out, he deserves a title for his great performance in this MSL. And, more than that, Kwanro deserves to burn for somehow sneaking his way into this final. I don't like his playstyle and I feel he got a free pass when Iris beat Bisu and then rolled over and died in the semifinal. So, Calm fighting!

Thank you for the post HB, it met your usual high standard! I really like your writing, my goal is to use shorter sentences and still maintain paragraph flow. You do a good job with that.

Thanks for the kind words, but I can't help but feel like I sort of mailed in these last few newsposts. I don't have the motivation to be super funny or put a lot of effort into it when the brackets suck so bad. So many mirrors, and no marquee matchups. We were even robbed of the JD-Effort QF. Nothing went right this MSL. We could've had a ridiculous semifinal of JD/Effort and Bisu/Flash, but alas it isn't meant to be.


You were robbed of a effort/JD semi. I was given a calm/JD semi :D
Free Palestine
Kennigit *
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
Canada19447 Posts
August 30 2009 04:08 GMT
#74
Golden Age of protoss -> Lame Color Age of Zerg?
Mauve? Saffron? Beige?
Avidkeystamper
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United States8552 Posts
August 30 2009 04:11 GMT
#75
Crimson =[
+ Show Spoiler +
Cashmere
Jaedong
miseiler
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States1389 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 04:35:48
August 30 2009 04:30 GMT
#76
How can you not love Kwanro's style? It's so...zerg!

I went into the match thinking "let's win in any way possible."

I.e. how he plays every game.

Interview.
"Jinro soo manly wearing only a T-Shirt while the Koreans freeze in their jackets" -- Double_O
"He's from Sweden, man. We have to fight polar bears on our way to school." -- Yusername
blue_arrow
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
1971 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 04:31:39
August 30 2009 04:31 GMT
#77
On August 30 2009 13:08 Kennigit wrote:
Golden Age of protoss -> Lame Color Age of Zerg?
Mauve? Saffron? Beige?


Dull grey imo
| MLIA | the weather sucks dick here
alffla
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Hong Kong20321 Posts
August 30 2009 04:34 GMT
#78
ok......g o kwanro.. wooo
Graphicssavior[gm] : What is a “yawn” rape ;; Masumune - It was the year of the pig for those fucking defilers. Chill - A clinic you say? okum: SC without Korean yelling is like porn without sex. konamix: HAPPY BIRTHDAY MOMMY!
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
August 30 2009 04:47 GMT
#79
If I may ask, why is Kwanro Pikachu? I am confused...
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32275 Posts
August 30 2009 04:50 GMT
#80
GO KWANRO!!!
Moderator<:3-/-<
uglymoose89
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States671 Posts
August 30 2009 04:55 GMT
#81
On August 30 2009 13:47 iaguz wrote:
If I may ask, why is Kwanro Pikachu? I am confused...


cause there was a thread awhile ago that had progamer pokemon look-a-likes. And a pic of kwanro looked scarily similar to pikachu. Just like Hiya looks like a magikarp .
IntoTheWow
Profile Blog Joined May 2004
is awesome32275 Posts
August 30 2009 04:55 GMT
#82
On August 30 2009 13:47 iaguz wrote:
If I may ask, why is Kwanro Pikachu? I am confused...


01:09
(Z)Kwanro: I don’t really have much to film…
(T)Iris: Now, attack! Pikachu!
(T)Iris: I’ll stoop down~ get up
(Z)Kwanro: I don’t want to get full body shots

from: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=87080
Moderator<:3-/-<
BEARDiaguz
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Australia2362 Posts
August 30 2009 05:09 GMT
#83
Ok... weird...
ProgamerAustralian alcohol user follow @iaguzSC2
Fraidnot
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
United States824 Posts
August 30 2009 05:46 GMT
#84
Watch it, go to bed, never speak of it again.
GoSu
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Korea (South)1773 Posts
August 30 2009 06:19 GMT
#85
Excellent write up.
I dont know if I will be motivated for watching the final.
I will see TT
#1 olleh KT 팬 http://sports.kt.com/ | #1 김택용 선수 팬 | 좋은 선수: 송병구, 이제동, 도제욱, 정명훈, 이성은 | KeSPA 한국 e-Sports 협회
Crunchums
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States11144 Posts
August 30 2009 06:26 GMT
#86
Hey man don't hate on Calm, it's not his fault he doesn't have a good opponent to play against : /
Dude goes undefeated except one game to Jaedong and you're going to disregard the title he could win just cause the finals are going to be boring (and one sided)?
brood war for life, brood war forever
leomon
Profile Joined December 2008
Canada169 Posts
August 30 2009 07:10 GMT
#87
Calm ftw I guess.

Althou I'm not really interested in ZvZ finals
Radians
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
August 30 2009 07:27 GMT
#88
Was a nice read, I'm not as pumped as for JD vs Yarnc but I rly would like to see Calm become an ace player.
Would be so exciting in the PL, STX now with other stuff then depth, KTF if Luxury, ForGG and Violet stops slumping, OZ if JD stays and SKT1 now that Hyuk is good @ hyuking other people for once, CJ Entus with Kwanro doing good as well, eStro started to look less sucky (in the STX Masters) and finally Khan with Stork looking to come out of his slump.
In the woods, there lurks..
Mongery
Profile Joined May 2009
892 Posts
August 30 2009 08:01 GMT
#89
hehe nice! good writeup!
http://www.twitch.tv/mongery_tv https://www.esportsearnings.com/players/27699-mongery-
BlackMagister
Profile Joined October 2008
United States5834 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-30 09:03:39
August 30 2009 08:59 GMT
#90
On August 30 2009 13:55 uglymoose89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 30 2009 13:47 iaguz wrote:
If I may ask, why is Kwanro Pikachu? I am confused...


cause there was a thread awhile ago that had progamer pokemon look-a-likes. And a pic of kwanro looked scarily similar to pikachu. Just like Hiya looks like a magikarp .


I think it's a Korean thing that TL just caught onto, same thing with the Magikarp with Hiya. The reason might be due to them looking like their pokemon but I don't think TL started these nicks. There are Korean fan signs of it + Show Spoiler +
[image loading]

this is from the MSL finals
and I seriously doubt TL is influencing the Korean community.
Iplaythings
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Denmark9110 Posts
August 30 2009 09:16 GMT
#91
On August 30 2009 08:53 gamecrazy67 wrote:
There was a poll on ZvZ finals in OSL and MSL

http://www.teamliquid.net/poll/index.php?poll_id=380

gg, i voted OSL only

I voted for both xD
In the woods, there lurks..
viewer
Profile Joined July 2009
Canada662 Posts
August 30 2009 09:58 GMT
#92
Okay your description of what a dogfight was won you the internet. Congratulations sir.
BloodDrunK
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
Bangladesh2767 Posts
August 30 2009 14:16 GMT
#93
nice writeup.can't wait for the finals.gogo kwanro.
You have the power to create your own destiny.
Piy
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Scotland3152 Posts
August 30 2009 16:43 GMT
#94
Dunno if I really agree with calling Mind an undeserving champion...

Nice write up though
My. Copy. Is. Here.
Mykill
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada3402 Posts
August 30 2009 17:13 GMT
#95
Mind was really good and consistent back then...
[~~The Impossible Leads To Invention~~] CJ Entusman #52 The problem with internet quotations is that they are hard to verify -Abraham Lincoln c.1863
misanthropics
Profile Joined August 2009
United States2 Posts
August 30 2009 19:19 GMT
#96
does anyone know what time the matches are ?
The beauty of a move lies not in its appearance but in the thought behind it” (Aaron Nimzovich
misanthropics
Profile Joined August 2009
United States2 Posts
August 30 2009 19:20 GMT
#97
oh nm i guess they were yesterday sorry for 2 pointless posts
The beauty of a move lies not in its appearance but in the thought behind it” (Aaron Nimzovich
snorlax
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United States755 Posts
August 31 2009 00:36 GMT
#98
would it be possible to put the winner in spoiler =/
ReiKo
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
Croatia1023 Posts
August 31 2009 01:51 GMT
#99
Nice writeup, thanks! Keep up the good work
zazen
Profile Blog Joined April 2009
Brazil695 Posts
Last Edited: 2009-08-31 05:32:39
August 31 2009 05:15 GMT
#100
Fact: Calm vs Kwanro was more entertaining than Jaedong vs Yarnc.
"The quest for nexus has brought many men of genius to insanity... HUEHUEHUE!"
nepeta
Profile Blog Joined May 2008
1872 Posts
August 31 2009 11:40 GMT
#101
What a snide and cynical write-up, got kicked out of bed the night before? Childish wordplay with canines and deratory remarks across the article are completely uncalled for. If the 'starpower' would be so powerful, why has it been watching the finals on tv?

I enjoyed the finals very much, as well as most of the games of the two finalists leading up to it. Zerg Fighting!
Broodwar AI :) http://sscaitournament.com http://www.starcraftai.com/wiki/Main_Page
Titusmaster6
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States5937 Posts
August 31 2009 15:17 GMT
#102
Kwanro fighting! CJ till I die
Shorts down shorts up, BOOM, just like that.
StorrZerg
Profile Blog Joined February 2008
United States13919 Posts
August 31 2009 17:48 GMT
#103
Jaedong vs Lux games where much more exciting than the kwanro vs calm finals + Show Spoiler +
called it 3-1 in favor of calm
Hwaseung Oz fan for life. Swing out, always swing out.
Ideas
Profile Blog Joined April 2008
United States8118 Posts
August 31 2009 23:24 GMT
#104
On September 01 2009 02:48 StorrZerg wrote:
Jaedong vs Lux games where much more exciting than the kwanro vs calm finals + Show Spoiler +
called it 3-1 in favor of calm


no way calm vs kwanro was way better
Free Palestine
mos
Profile Joined August 2004
Thailand31 Posts
September 01 2009 12:09 GMT
#105
both osl and msl
had Zerg v Zerg
-_-''
Achromic
Profile Blog Joined September 2009
773 Posts
September 04 2009 19:31 GMT
#106
Pikachu got this.
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