EPTOn May 17 2009 18:14 Ace wrote:
exactly. Which is why I hardly have long PM discussions when I play this game.
exactly. Which is why I hardly have long PM discussions when I play this game.
wait what about mafia 2
Mafia VIII [GG] - Page 17
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Caller
Poland8075 Posts
wait what about mafia 2 | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
So I wake up after my like 8 or 10 hours of sleep after my massive DOTA binge last night. Last thing I remember thread was at page 8, and now it's double. I think oh shit, somebody fucked up so there must be some major finger pointing going on. Wow, was I right or what? Let's get this nemy situation settled. It seems some of you have short memory or just don't look at this scenario with clear eyes. Nemy knows about Mafia 2. He saw the situation that played out with Empyrean and myself when I argued how bad he fucked up by roleclaiming DT on Day 1. He knows how DUMB that move is in most cases, and with the ruleset in this game it's just as bad. Nemy was on my Mafia team when Folca outted himself as a DT Day 1 to try and get me killed. We all know how that ended. DTs that roelclaim early have to be killed - always. There's no time to prove them innocent, and in this game there aren't enough DTs. The guy knows about the confusion that caused. There is also another big mistake nemy made: saying that people are on to him because of behavior analysis. *spits on the floor* excuse me? What kind of bullshit is this? What exactly has nemy posted that could have possibly given up his role? Let's be serious here people - this is a Veteran game but most people playing are not that good. Seriously. Even so how can anyone fuck up so easily so fast? Go ahead, look at all nemy's posts. If someone called him out for being blue on that shit they are just fishing. This leads me to believe nemy is lying or just not that smart if he really fell for it. When SoG was playing to get elected in that game, I caught on to his posts and figured he was likely a DT also. Thing is it really was a bad play on his part. I've played countless mafia games and I always tell people DO NOT HINT about your role. It's either you roleclaim or you stfu because if you hint about it and get mad when the town doesn't pick up on it but the Mafia does it's your own fault. I'm expecting that in this supposed Vet game no one does anything like that. Now back to nemy. Guys, look at the big picture: 1.) nemy claims dt on Day 1 2.) says it's because he is scared to die because people are on to him ??? Think about it. Does this make any sense in any way? Once again I'll use one of the arguments I used against Empyrean in Mafia 2: you just fucked the town over. Even more so than Mafia 2 because now we have to rely stretch medic protection. nemy is not a high profile player. If he was thinking, he'd realize without making it into office he could stay quiet, no need for medic protection and live for a while. There are better players that would serve as more threats to the Mafia. So now let's look at it again. 1.) nemy claims to be a DT which can't be proven 2.) he is scared to die because people allegedly found out his role (bullshit scenario) 3.) he probably wasn't a high profile target anyway and now he just made himself one Is this really the kind of person we want in office? Even if he was a DT I'd rather have someone else with clearer lines of thought in their head. He is effectively USELESS. Once again this is the thought process: ASSUME nemy is a DT. He just pulled this stunt. Do you REALLY want him taking up this invaluable spot? And the last thought exercise I'll give you which will paint the perfect picture: Once again ASSUME nemy is a DT. Is it worth having him in office over myself, Ver, or Mynock? Think about it. None of us, with the exception of Mynock I think once have EVER been a DT. And we've managed to do more damage than or come to better conclusions than most people playing Detective ever have. You're effectively asking the town to put in a wrongfully paranoid DT over 3 better players who without even having a powerful role are going to help more than him anyway. So looking at it from this point of view, we already see that even if nemy is a DT he's just not worth putting into office. Hold on, now here is the biggie: he's most likely not a DT. I've stated before that nemy has seen too many games where early DT roleclaims always lead to trouble. Look at what happened with Empyrean. In Mafia 2 as mayor even after I confirmed Emp as a DT I had to keep shifting around medic protections on him because he outted himself Day 1. There were times I even considered putting 3 medics on him because of his little stunt. nemy should know that. If he really was a DT think about it. You just entered the election on a whim in a game where you know almost everyone running is going to be good enough to win. Now you see that the votes are coming in, and you think about pulling the DT card. If you win, which you should know in a game with a decent amount of non-retards is slim, great. But you won't win. So you think about the opposite: If you lose? Now the town has to spend resources (time and medics) just to keep your ass alive. If nemy really is a DT, do you honestly think he thought about this in this way? I don't. Because even if he was he just proved to us he's useless. He's either Mafia or a Traitor. Which makes him a good candidate for the first lynch. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
hardly doesn't mean never  And in Mafia 2 of course I had to have long discussions because of the Bodyguard Plan before irc. Other than that I only have long PM discussions if I have to, or when I'm sure it's going to be useful. I try not to PM people in Mafia games because I'm confident enough that I can gather what I need to know just reading the thread, and it keeps me out of trouble that most people get themselves into. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 17 2009 13:29 nemY wrote: Just to clarify for you folks, look long and deep at the ppl running for mayor... because I suspect that the overwhelming majority of them are mafia scum, GF is probably not running because GF need not run (since once an individual becomes mayor/pardoner they are immune to r/c's). The more I look at the situation the more I think these ppl are just using me for as much info as they get before they kill me. In the future... I'm just not gonna speak  Guys read this post carefully. First nemy wants to be Mayor, then claims DT, then is just fine with getting Pardoner and now he's accusing most of the candidates of being mafia scum. An "overwhelming majority" at that. Then he hits us with the coup de grace: "I think these ppl are just using me for as much info as they get before they kill me.. um excuse me? What info? There isn't any information to go around yet. So not only do you accuse the people running of being mafia, in which you were better of being specific about who since you're so sure but now you have some fabricated nugget of information. OK SURE. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
I've played in plenty of small mafia games. Some people here know I used to play on another forum with MrBabyHands and those games regularly had 15 or less people playing, even as low as 8 at times. We always used Mayors and Pardoners. In those games when myself or MBH were Town Pardoners we usually did the right thing and saved an innocent from a wrongful bandwagon. Want to know what happens most of the time when it was an OBVIOUS case of Mafia on the block and the Pardoner pardoned them? Both died the next day. Yea, to save themselves some KP they both died. And they usually ended up losing the game because now 2 mafia are gone, the suspect pool is thinner and there are just too many townies left for the rest to kill fast enough. The only time a Mafia Pardoner has ever successfully pardoned an OBVIOUS Mafia player and won is when it's near the end of the game, the ratios are close, and there is still too much confusion about other players in the game. Saving that 1 mafia player for 1 night makes sense as if you both live to the next day and kill at night, now you only have to convince let's say 1 out of 3 people instead of 3 out of 5. Those were games much smaller than this. There is no reason to panic right now as all 30 players are still alive and we aren't even close to that scenario. Assume we even get into that position then you can worry about Mafia pardoners making themselves obvious. With that said, we shouldn't even be thinking about getting blues into office. The discussion itself is dangerous, as we've already seen what nemy did and we don't need anymore of that. You're basically asking people to lightly out themselves - pointless. If a blue wants to get in office he needs to run on a smarter platform than "I might be blue, let me live". There are a few players here that even without a blue role they are just better to have going against the Mafia. Those are the people that need protecting, as if I were Mafia this time and I saw the stunt nemy pulled whether he is a DT or not I'd be HAPPY with him being in office over myself, Mynock or Ver. | ||
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Fishball
Canada4788 Posts
When Vivi and BC talked to me today, I just flat out said, no matter if Nemy is a DT or Mafia, he must die. We should all be plain and simple edit: typo | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 17 2009 04:45 MTF wrote: Ver is no doubt very intelligent and puts a tremendous effort into the game, but he lacks the ability to get under peoples skin. Showtime, Caller, and Ace have that ability in spades. And that is a larger part of Mafia than I think many players realize. It's not enough to just be able to pin down and call out Mafia members with definitive proof or verbose appeals to the town. You need to make Mafia and the supposed town uncomfortable, mad at you, and you need to be able to be able to throw out random insults or vague accusations without remorse. I think Ver is much too polite for that. I'd rather see him in Pardoner role assisting the mayor, but not having the primary voice. what? I've never randomly insulted anyone! ^_^ | ||
Mynock
4492 Posts
Saying nothing but voting nemY? WTF? | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
Whoever is voting for nemY to be in office is either making a big mistake or is playing into the hands of Mafia on purpose. I agree with Ace, that the first lynch might be well used on nemY. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
T_T i'll catchup and post after this | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Mayors and Pardoners can't be figured out by DTs. So surely we expect one of the candidates to be Mafia. Whoever it is must think they have a reasonable shot at winning. They probably thought about this but didn't want to bring it up: All losing candidates should be investigated by a DT. whoa whats that? Yup, if you lose you are getting investigated. So now whoever that mafia candidate is HAS to win if the Town goes forward with this idea. Losing the election means getting found out. So if you weren't winning at first it might be a good idea to get real desperate huh? | ||
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dreamflower
United States312 Posts
On May 17 2009 08:29 nemY wrote: Why have I came out and admitted this? Because I feel that my position may have already been compromised. I've received PMs from multiple individuals who seem to think that I may be a blue, and now I'm confirming it. Emphasis on the "multiple." At first, I thought this sounded silly and panicky, but if I was confronted by a dozen people who pinpointed my exact role on the first day, I figure I would get worried too, if I were an innocent detective. Especially if I'd only made a handful of very brief posts all game, as nemY had done. After some pressure from others to reveal these PMs, though, he returns and posts them. Incomplete and hardly multiple at all. In fact, only one person, Incognito, seems to have written to him, and what he wrote was: On May 17 2009 14:30 nemY wrote: I'm not going to post the whole thing since much of it is our discussion and finger pointing (which I'd rather leave out) so here it is... ala Richard Nixon Style That doesn't seem like enough to panic over, let alone to prompt a public roleclaim. The overall tone seems non-threatening and inquisitive, and Incognito confirmed that that was all he said. If there were other PMs from other people, nemY hasn't posted them. And if this was all there was, then why claim multiple people had contacted you in the first place and use that as your only excuse to out yourself? It just doesn't seem very honest to me. | ||
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Mynock
4492 Posts
On May 17 2009 22:56 Ace wrote: Yo Mynock I was thinking of this little scenario, it's kinda interesting. Mayors and Pardoners can't be figured out by DTs. So surely we expect one of the candidates to be Mafia. Whoever it is must think they have a reasonable shot at winning. They probably thought about this but didn't want to bring it up: All losing candidates should be investigated by a DT. whoa whats that? Yup, if you lose you are getting investigated. So now whoever that mafia candidate is HAS to win if the Town goes forward with this idea. Losing the election means getting found out. So if you weren't winning at first it might be a good idea to get real desperate huh? Absolutely agreed. This also kinda points me to nemY again. If he is indeed elected, there is no way of him ever being proved unless lynched. And how convenient for him to be a DT. A DT can't prove himself with any actions either, but can lead the Town around in many ways. Had he claimed Vigi, he would have to prove himself soon enough. Medic? Same thing. Veteran? It's useless to have him in office, if anything, a Veteran is worth more UNprotected. And if he is indeed DT, it's just a very bad move on his side. | ||
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RebirthOfLeGenD
USA5860 Posts
On May 17 2009 22:56 Ace wrote: Yo Mynock I was thinking of this little scenario, it's kinda interesting. Mayors and Pardoners can't be figured out by DTs. So surely we expect one of the candidates to be Mafia. Whoever it is must think they have a reasonable shot at winning. They probably thought about this but didn't want to bring it up: All losing candidates should be investigated by a DT. whoa whats that? Yup, if you lose you are getting investigated. So now whoever that mafia candidate is HAS to win if the Town goes forward with this idea. Losing the election means getting found out. So if you weren't winning at first it might be a good idea to get real desperate huh? haha I couldn't agree more. but yeah with a little behavior analysis we could nail ourselves a couple of maifa in two days But yeah, back to me never agreeing with you ever. We always have logic that differs and you said a DT role call has never worked before, the answer to that is a big NO I believe we ended one of callers game because I managed to convince most of the town to lynch your ass. But its okay, not bragging just pointing that out. Although I do believe your inactivity helped me with that (I was actually just the VI and Ace was the GF)I think NemYs move is more so the act of an over indulgence in self importance. When you are a DT in a game like this it increases paranoia levels and is what I think most likely caused nemy to RC because he felt like people were onto him, whether or not they actually were its the paranoia factor that did it. and Ace your so wrong, you are saying you KNOW hes mafia or traitor and presented situations of the IF nemy is a DT. First off, the chance of NemY being mafia is so incredibly low it is almost irrelevant at this point. Traitor? Well yeah, you have a valid point there. and if hes a DT you argue that you don't want a rash person/dumb person in that positions. Well I disagree. I don't think he is beyond control or without reason to role call. It seems perfectly reasonable given the situations. Not many DTs and mafia getting them on day one does not seem too good, hence RC and hope for either elected position or medic protection. Even if we could argue nemy is dumb as fuck, we can't negate the value of his role checks. Remember your above scenario? Yeah? How the hell are we supposed to do that if we lynch one of OUR OWN DTS? That's kind of amusing. but yeah, with nemy in office he can role check any of your suggested "preferred" office players of you, MTF, or Ver. ![[image loading]](http://www.zilefile.com/files/190_w9jsa/chances%20-%20dont%20be%20a%20pussy.%20this%20guy%20seems%20legit.jpg) Vote Nemy also as a sidenote: [quote=bockit said]But regardless, I think I see where you're going, and yes that does put suspicion on me, however I feel that in this game, a townie is more scared of having a mafia in pardoner position than mafia is scared of having a dt in power. Maybe people disagree with me on this, I'm open to discussion on the topic.[/quote] No way in hell is the town more scared of a mafia in office as a the mafia is a DT. If a mafia is in office in such an active game hes going to get tagged suspicious on clue and behavior pretty damn fast and we will lynch his ass. The DT in office provides 3 solid role checks and stability. Oh and another point at Ace. Yeah I am sure you Ver and MTF would be great in office, but keep in mind MANY people can't determine your alliance yet, so risking you guys in is not as smart, even if you are better players. Nemy is 90% blue. You guys are unknown. | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
its 1am and i need sleep, im sick also so thats why im dying reading these posts Anyway i concur with everything ace says Bullshit that mafia were gonna hit nemy first night lynch him whoever the mayor is | ||
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Scaramanga
Australia8090 Posts
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Bockit
Sydney2287 Posts
Nemy is not 90% blue. Hell he's not even 30% blue. Dreamflower has pointed out his outright lie. He took the trouble to write 'multiple people' and yet was only able to provide half-arsed pms from one guy, that didn't even match very well how they were described in the first place. I'm not going to repeat Dreamflower's post anymore, go read it. I think he's a traitor, possibly a mafia ploy trying to implicate incognito maybe, but a traitor to me seems more likely. Ace: Well put with the callout. Plexa: What the fuck. MTF: Similarly. | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
Ok lets start the rapefest. I think NemYs move is more so the act of an over indulgence in self importance. When you are a DT in a game like this it increases paranoia levels and is what I think most likely caused nemy to RC because he felt like people were onto him, whether or not they actually were its the paranoia factor that did it. and Ace your so wrong, you are saying you KNOW hes mafia or traitor and presented situations of the IF nemy is a DT. If you are truly a DT in a game like this, than SURELY you know that Day 1 roleclaiming won't work. If it didn't work for Empyrean how the hell is it going to work in this game with less players but more concentrated Veterans? Duh? If he's paranoid over something he still hasn't proven then why are we even THINKING about voting for him? It's just silly. First off, the chance of NemY being mafia is so incredibly low it is almost irrelevant at this point. Uh no. Out of all the people playing so far nemy has the highest chance of being Mafia. He's the only one that has publicly done anything suspicious/blatantly bad for the town. You fail on that logic. Again. Traitor? Well yeah, you have a valid point there. and if hes a DT you argue that you don't want a rash person/dumb person in that positions. Well I disagree. I don't think he is beyond control or without reason to role call. It seems perfectly reasonable given the situations. Not many DTs and mafia getting them on day one does not seem too good, hence RC and hope for either elected position or medic protection. Even if we could argue nemy is dumb as fuck, we can't negate the value of his role checks. Remember your above scenario? Yeah? How the hell are we supposed to do that if we lynch one of OUR OWN DTS? That's kind of amusing. but yeah, with nemy in office he can role check any of your suggested "preferred" office players of you, MTF, or Ver. What situations? There IS no situation. Your just pulling shit out of your ass now. No one has been killed, there has been no major info leaks - nothing. All we have is a mayoral election. No one has any reason to be panicking about anything at all. My above scenario also assumes nemy ISNT a DT. And from the way he's played so far I don't think he'd be one. Even so, I say we lynch him to find out. We really don't need him if he's going to be playing so bad anyway. We have plenty of people that are better than Detectives anyway. Even worse is that with nemy in office he himself can't be role checked so then we have to assume he really is a DT for the rest of the game. OOPS! Your logic fails once again. You can read Mynock's post above if you need it broken down even more. Oh and another point at Ace. Yeah I am sure you Ver and MTF would be great in office, but keep in mind MANY people can't determine your alliance yet, so risking you guys in is not as smart, even if you are better players. Nemy is 90% blue. You guys are unknown. No shit sherlock. No one can determine many other player's alliances or we'd already have a red name on the board. Even worse is that now you claim nemy is "90% blue" - lol? You can't be for real. Then you say even if we are better players you'd rather NOT have us in office? ... yea I'm going to let that sink in for everyone to read. Ok back to this ownage. I always vote for the good players to get in office unless I'm feeling silly. Bad players in office always leads to a disaster. Even worse - nemy is sheepish. Assuming his story is true he was tricked into outing himself easily - why the fuck would we want him in office, taking up valuable space? I'll be waiting for your next nonsense post. That drivel you just wrote is actually a good post that should convince people not to vote for nemy, and not to listen to any logic you ever try to bring up (I've been following this train of thought for several games now). | ||
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Ace
United States16096 Posts
On May 17 2009 23:54 Scaramanga wrote: Kids please for the love of god STOP POSTING FUCKIGN ESSAYS its 1am and i need sleep, im sick also so thats why im dying reading these posts It's 11:17am for me. ^_^ | ||
mikeymoo
Canada7170 Posts
I was speaking to somebody outside the thread and we were wondering if nemy was a DT based on his actions before r/cing. Although his action would seem to confirm this, I'd have to agree with Ace on almost all of his points. To those that think that nemy isn't a deep psychological player that likes these sorts of gambits, consider that the mafia is on A TEAM and he could well be doing this under the instruction of his group, simply because he is not viewed as the type to try something this convoluted. My vote stays on Mynock. Voting nemy is a big mistake. | ||
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