TL Mafia 2 [GG] - Page 58

Pangolin

United States1035 Posts

March 19 2008 23:40 GMT

#1141

On March 20 2008 07:59 SonuvBob wrote:
That's true, but for other candidates it could've been based on what they said. I had literally nothing to offer.

HAHA I LOVE IT!! A townie trick to expose (possible) mobsters. I was wondering why your campaign was so half-assed, now it makes complete sense.

Bockit

Sydney2287 Posts

March 19 2008 23:40 GMT

#1142

Only flaw I can think of is with the "detectives remain silent for innocence". That assumes that at least one detective / 4 will use up 1 of their rolecheckers, and not all 4 will think, oh one of the others is sure to do it.

Though I'm not suggesting we should kill of a detective to confirm, OR that the plan is massively flawed, I'm just pointing out.

That is unless I'm missing something...

Kau

Canada3500 Posts

March 19 2008 23:44 GMT

#1143

Yogurt, instead of waiting for Ace to post, I'd be interested in discussing it with you.

Falcynn

United States3597 Posts

March 19 2008 23:48 GMT

#1144

This is probably a stupid question, but I figured I'd just ask it anyway to get it off my mind. Regular detectives only have 2 rolechecks per game. However if a jack uses the detective abilities, does he get the role checks back. Considering that when they use their veteran powers they regain their night lives, I figured I'd ask. (again, probably a dumb question, but I just wanted to let it out)

Also, being absolutely sure that our mayor isn't mafia is way more important imo than essentially wasting 3 role checks that wouldn't have needed to be used. So I encourage all detectives to use their role check if possible.

Pangolin

United States1035 Posts

March 19 2008 23:49 GMT

#1145

On March 20 2008 08:40 Bockit wrote:
Only flaw I can think of is with the "detectives remain silent for innocence". That assumes that at least one detective / 4 will use up 1 of their rolecheckers, and not all 4 will think, oh one of the others is sure to do it.

Though I'm not suggesting we should kill of a detective to confirm, OR that the plan is massively flawed, I'm just pointing out.

That is unless I'm missing something...

Well all of the detectives are supposed to rolecheck the mayor and send the mayor a pm. Even though this does waste some detective abilities it also fixes your problem.

Kau

Canada3500 Posts

March 19 2008 23:49 GMT

#1146

I think it'd be kinda unfair if the jack potentially gets 6 role checks compared to an actual detective that only gets 2, but I guess we'll have to wait for Chuiu to confirm.

Falcynn

United States3597 Posts

March 19 2008 23:51 GMT

#1147

Yeah, hence why I said it was probably a stupid question. On the off chance that Jacks do get extra role checks however...well then asking this is way worth it ^_^

Pangolin

United States1035 Posts

March 19 2008 23:51 GMT

#1148

On March 20 2008 08:48 Falcynn wrote:
This is probably a stupid question, but I figured I'd just ask it anyway to get it off my mind. Regular detectives only have 2 rolechecks per game. However if a jack uses the detective abilities, does he get the role checks back. Considering that when they use their veteran powers they regain their night lives, I figured I'd ask. (again, probably a dumb question, but I just wanted to let it out)

"You may use up to six abilities from other roles in the game however you are restricted to the very same rules that apply to them when you use them." I assume the bolded part means # per game restrictions

ahrara_

Afghanistan1715 Posts

March 19 2008 23:54 GMT

#1149

On March 20 2008 08:32 Yogurt wrote:

Show nested quote +

thats not the one, but again, ill wait for ace to post it again

Go ahead and post it now, so we can discuss it and ACE will see if he can correct it before finalizing the plan.

Kau

Canada3500 Posts

March 19 2008 23:54 GMT

#1150

Also, even if they got 6 checks, it'd be a bad idea to have them use it on the mayor because we could end up with a miscount and that would lead us to lynch innocent people.

Falcynn

United States3597 Posts

March 19 2008 23:56 GMT

#1151

I'm not saying that the Jacks should use a role check on the mayor, that's the detective's job. However knowing that we have extra role checks (even if they're limited to only 2 as well) is always good, so that we don't have to rely on the detectives for everything later in the game.

Ghar

Australia62 Posts

March 19 2008 23:58 GMT

#1152

The plan is though that detectives work with the mayor, if you were a detective, wouldn't you want to be confident that the guy you're opening up to is legit?

butidigress

United States36 Posts

March 20 2008 00:00 GMT

#1153

I think we're making a big mistake here by not voting for Empyrean. I feel fairly confident he's a DT; I cannot imagine mafia making that kind of bold move. Even with the saboteur position removing his powers while he is being protected, I think we would do well to have someone who is most likely a townie to be up there.

Also, why is everyone so confident that Ace and randombum are clean? While Ace's plan is pretty good, that shouldn't guarantee his innocence.

ShaLLoW[baY]

Canada12499 Posts

March 20 2008 00:03 GMT

#1154

I'm compiling a suspicion list based on peoples actions throughout the game so far. I won't be posting it until later, when there is more to go on.

Caller

Poland8075 Posts

March 20 2008 00:04 GMT

#1155

I have a concern with Ace's plan:

suppose that the mayor is townie and all the bodyguards get the right messages

then suppose that a mafia false claims that hes a bodyguard.

that means we'll end up killing several bodyguards and potentially the mayor for a mafiaso. not a good trade.

Falcynn

United States3597 Posts

March 20 2008 00:07 GMT

#1156

On March 20 2008 09:04 Caller wrote:
I have a concern with Ace's plan:

suppose that the mayor is townie and all the bodyguards get the right messages

then suppose that a mafia false claims that hes a bodyguard.

that means we'll end up killing several bodyguards and potentially the mayor for a mafiaso. not a good trade.

The detective's supposed to investigate the mayor (if I understand correctly) and the detective will announce if they find the mayor to be mafia. At which point we lynch the detective first. If he turns blue, then we go after the mayor next.

A detective for a mafia sounds like a bad trade, but it's the best we can get if it turns out we voted a mafia in.

CDRdude

United States5625 Posts

March 20 2008 00:08 GMT

#1157

The thing is, after the Dr.Dragoon incident, we're more likely to first lynch the accuser, and then the accused. It's not profitable for the mafia to fake bodyguard status.

Ghar

Australia62 Posts

March 20 2008 00:08 GMT

#1158

Also, why is everyone so confident that Ace and randombum are clean? While Ace's plan is pretty good, that shouldn't guarantee his innocence.

We're not, Ace is voted because he has a plan of action that will benefit the town even if he were say mafia. Bum is just voted to kick Emp off because of his irrational approach to being elected.

If the mayor is innocent, then he'll straight out deny the fake bodyguards, thus we have free mafia to kill without any wasted effort.

JeeJee

Canada5652 Posts

March 20 2008 00:16 GMT

#1159

im pretty certain jacks have access to 6 rolechecks. however keep in mind they cannot use the same role in consecutive days, meaning it would take 12 days for all 6 rolechecks, at the least. after all, if the checks don't refresh in count, why would the detective night lives?

hopefully chuiu can confirm, but i don't think it's a big deal to have a check every other day/night cycle for 12 cycles.

ahrara_

Afghanistan1715 Posts

March 20 2008 00:17 GMT

#1160

On March 20 2008 09:00 butidigress wrote:
I think we're making a big mistake here by not voting for Empyrean. I feel fairly confident he's a DT; I cannot imagine mafia making that kind of bold move. Even with the saboteur position removing his powers while he is being protected, I think we would do well to have someone who is most likely a townie to be up there.

Also, why is everyone so confident that Ace and randombum are clean? While Ace's plan is pretty good, that shouldn't guarantee his innocence.

Why are you so convinced Emp is innocent? Electing the mayor is a shot in the dark. We don't know if they are or aren't townies. We do the best we can. The best we can suggests that Ace is innocent, because he's contributed a lot of ideas that can help the town. Emp made a stupid decision that can either cost us a detective or land up with a mafia as pardoner. Nobody is voting by certainty, just by likelihood. Just because there's the possibility you'll be hit by a bus doesn't mean you shouldn't cross the street.

As for the detective innocence problem -- this is a big issue. The problem is the detectives don't know who each other are, and to be sure the investigation is actually completed, they'll ALL have to use up a role check on the mayor. My solution is simple. Instead, we should have both jacks check up on the mayor. Jacks are not as useful, and we'll be wasting two checks instead of four, and we can't have emp do it (assuming he is a detective) because no doubt the mafia will use a saboteur on him. If we rely on emp, it'll be another night before we find out if the mayor is clean.

that means we'll end up killing several bodyguards and potentially the mayor for a mafiaso. not a good trade.

This has been brought up a million times. The bodyguard plan has already been shown to be a flawed method for proving the mayor's innocence. The only way to be sure is to sacrifice a jack. That's likely what will end up happening.

EDIT: OOPS! I misunderstood the jack's role. Ignore what I just said. It's better to sacrifice four detective role checks than lose a jack.

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