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I'm sure you didn't read his entire post, because the strategy makes a lot of sense EVEN when the Mayor is Mafia because it forces the Mayor to do some work that benefits the Town.
I don't understand. If the mayor is mafia, and he convinces the real detectives to find out people's roles for him, then it's pretty much game over. If he's not mafia, he can't absolutely trust the detectives, because the mafia could be faking 4 detectives and reporting mob members as having the roles.
BTW Ghar, I didn't mean you were half-assing it. I mean, well, it's clear the liquidians I'm talking about.
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On March 18 2008 17:02 aZnvaLiaNce wrote:
See, all this business behind what strategy is best for the future mayor is all based on the honor code and who's being honest. Seriously, I think it's best to put the strategy behind us until the first day/night cycle is done just to see how the important roles act/react to events happening, in particular the mayor.
So if we are not choosing the mayor based on their strategy, then how do you suggest we choose the mayor?
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On March 18 2008 17:02 aZnvaLiaNce wrote:
See, all this business behind what strategy is best for the future mayor is all based on the honor code and who's being honest. Seriously, I think it's best to put the strategy behind us until the first day/night cycle is done just to see how the important roles act/react to events happening, in particular the mayor.
Oh lord...
Look, just throwing everyone in the pit,waiting for the Mafia to kill 9 ppl and then seeing "what happens" is not always a good strategy.
If we do the plan Ghar suggested, along with myself then we have a starting point which is CRUCIAL for the town.
If ALL the Townies know the Strategy beforehand, and ALL the Mafia knows it then we've eliminated a lot of random elements and are now in a position where everyone knows the next moves that the Townies need to win, and the Mafia need to stop us from doing so.
With that in mind and clues from the Day/Night posts, we can now trap Mafia members because we know clearly how any logical Innocent person would act.
What you just posted pretty much asks us to commit suicide (see last game).
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My thoughts on the canidates:
fusionsdf--I don't know if he's a mafia or not, it's too early to tell. He did announce his candidacy before the game ever began though, so he probably enjoys the game a lot. In his favor, he apparently rightly guessed a lot of mafioso from game one. However, the catch is that he did it with Plexa. Small though the chance may be, this might be during time that Plexa would have otherwise devoted to writing TLFE's. Can we take that chance?
Meh:
His candidacy might be a joke, he seems to have zero votes, but it was a pretty good argument 
randombum:
I kind of liked his mass PM, it showed effort. I'm not so sure about his voting record in game 1 though. He voted half the time, although with 100% accuracy (voted FS for mayor, and voted to lynch mafia the only times he voted). I'm not sure if he'll increase his activity this game, but he seems to have quite the good record for rooting out mafia.
SoMuchBetter:
Ah, SMB. I didn't trust him at all last game, and he turned out to be a townie. Go figure. Also because of last game, whenever I think of SoMuchBetter, I think of a fat guy in a purple suit with a monocle. Last game, he kind of disappeared off the radar after failing his mayoral campaign, but that was probably because he didn't get elected. He also sent out mass PM's, with MSpaint in them (also before the role PM's), but he was pretty much copying randombum in them.
Ghar:
He posted an MS paint image, but not much else. He's an unknown here, as he registered and his first post was in the mafia thread (maybe all of his posts are in the mafia thread)
SunuvBob:
After asking around a bit, he decided to run for mayor. I guess this shows that he isn't afraid of a bit of work looking through profiles, but at first he was asking others to do it for him. In his favor, he is a mod--I assume that he has methods of searching at his disposal that we do not (can you search for posts by a certain person? I don't know how). His platform is also excellent.
araav:
He has a fairly sensible platform, and he also went the extra mile by making a list of all of 130 profiles. I respect your hard work, but since he didn't play in the first round, I have no voting record to base stuff off of.
Kuja900:
I'm biased against him, because of his post. To Kuja900: please use punctuation.
(These should be posted in the order that they proclaimed their candidacy. The last two on the list actually started their campaign after I started writing this, but before I posted it. Good thing I checked for that before I posted.)
My favorites here are:
fusionsdf -- he seems to have worked hard at rooting out mafia in game one, and was fairly successful. Props to him, but he did have another guy to bounce ideas off of. What if one person out of the pair winds up mafia, and they still trade ideas? Sure, Plexa publicly supported his nomination, but that could be real, or it could be a trick, we don't know.
randombum -- His mass PM showed a bit of effort and initiative, even if it wasn't so well thought out. He also has quite the voting record in game 1, which is a point in his favor.
SunuvBob -- I don't know much about him, but he's a mod. If he abuses his mod powers in favor of the town, we may gain quite an advantage. Again, his platform is excellent.
araav -- The man isn't afraid of doing some hard detective work. Otherwise, still an unknown.
I hope that this (opinionated) guide to the candidates helps with your voting.
==edit==
Apparently there's more to Ghar than what I wrote down, but I'm going to ignore it for now, because it's 1:00 AM here.
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On March 18 2008 17:04 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +I'm sure you didn't read his entire post, because the strategy makes a lot of sense EVEN when the Mayor is Mafia because it forces the Mayor to do some work that benefits the Town. I don't understand. If the mayor is mafia, and he convinces the real detectives to find out people's roles for him, then it's pretty much game over. If he's not mafia, he can't absolutely trust the detectives, because the mafia could be faking 4 detectives and reporting mob members as having the roles. BTW Ghar, I didn't mean you were half-assing it. I mean, well, it's clear the liquidians I'm talking about.
Then what of the possibility where town colludes to send in "fake" detectives to report to the mayor they suspect to be mafia. Then the mafia can be led astray and hit green targets, as opposed to blue ones. Then, again, there's the possibility where the mayor can be towny and having the "fake" detectives report to a true-blue mayor fake results can do more harm than good.
Again, it all depends on the honor code and we can't do anything about manipulating it or maneuvering around it until a cycle or two has passed.
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On March 18 2008 16:52 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +From there a team can be developed, people with roles should PM the mayor, and he sends detectives to investigate them to be sure. Only mafia would fake roles, so investigating them serves as hard proof of their legit role, or will reveal a mafia faking a role. Ghar, your plan is seriously flawed. I don't think you've thought this through, which is why I'm going to encourage people not to vote for you. If there was a contest over best election poster however, you'd win by a landslide. There are four detectives. They can use their role finding abilities twice in the game, and once a day. However, noone knows who the detectives are. A mafia mayor could have a fellow mobster, even two, pretend to be detectives and report that you're the mayor. You could have the detectives detect the detectives, but that'd cause the same problem, and the real detectives would be using their abilities in vain. So it's not that easy, but at least it's better than what FS did. edit: For chrissake, if you're going to run for mayor, do more than a half-assed job. Can't be worse than fakesteve doesn't cut it.
I appreciate the the analysis.
Scenario 1: If I'm mafia and I get mayor. Real detectives will point me out and swifty lynch me if I'm mafia. Have him lynched to prove he's a real detective. Once the detective is killed and revealed to be a real detective, then I'll die quickly
Scenario 2: If I'm not mafia and I get mayor: Unless a townie wants to ruin me, only a mafia would pretend to be detective. real detectives will confirm to me in private. If I don't get a public protest. I'm clean. Townies wouldn't pretend to be detective unless they want to ruin the game. Real detectives will reveal my role in private and vouch for me with silence. Only a mafia would claim to be detective in the open and say I'm mafia. Kill him, and see that he's mafia, and I'm right.
Am I clear, my thoughts didn't translate too well in this post.
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On March 18 2008 17:04 ahrara_ wrote:Show nested quote +I'm sure you didn't read his entire post, because the strategy makes a lot of sense EVEN when the Mayor is Mafia because it forces the Mayor to do some work that benefits the Town. I don't understand. If the mayor is mafia, and he convinces the real detectives to find out people's roles for him, then it's pretty much game over. If he's not mafia, he can't absolutely trust the detectives, because the mafia could be faking 4 detectives and reporting mob members as having the roles. BTW Ghar, I didn't mean you were half-assing it. I mean, well, it's clear the liquidians I'm talking about.
Except that the Mayor is investigated FIRST so the real DTs are going to know if he's dirty or clean ASAP.
There is a plan for the Mayor to figure out if the DTs are lying or not, and I won't post that here until later. The Mafia also isn't crazy enough to fake FOUR people. That would be ridiculously stupid.
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You'll be able to know if there are fake detectives if the mayor suddenly has more than 4 people report to him.
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Goddamn, there should be a new thread for each day.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
never trust an australian with 10 posts
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On March 18 2008 17:03 SonuvBob wrote:I'm an admin, like Steve. :p Except I'll be less of a douche! That's the SonuvBob Promise™! 1. I'll be less of a douche than FakeSteve was! 2. I can read edits! 3. I can use HTML. Let's see those mafia scum fight that! 4. Four! Vote for me! http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=68177
5. I can view post histories. I totally couldn't do that if I wasn't mayor
6. I have the power to turn Day into Night. Well.. in the thread title. See where it says "Day 1"? I did that. Let's you see try.
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On March 18 2008 17:14 Ghar wrote:
You'll be able to know if there are fake detectives if the mayor suddenly has more than 4 people report to him.
Hmm....I see your point there. Two scenarios:
Say, with the default 4 detectives, 6 detectives report to the mayor, meaning 2 of them are scum pretending to be detectives.
1.) Mafia mayor: Well, the mayor can discern the two scum from the other 4. On a more practical note, scum acting as detectives wouldn't even report to a mafia mayor since that's stupid. The only thing left for a mafia mayor to do is to believe the 4 remaining non-scum that reported in are actually real detectives and not "fake" ones sent in by townies.
2.) Towny mayor: This is hard. Early on, you can't really trust who's who and the mayor doesn't know who the fake detectives are. Later on, however, if 4 of those 6 report in again when asked, then it becomes somewhat easier to discern people. If more than 4, then ask for a third time. Those who do report in are fakes then. However, you do this at the expense of losing all your detective reports for the game, so do this at your own risk.
If this doesn't make sense, please say so. I've been know in RL to complicate matters when I don't have to.
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On March 18 2008 17:18 SonuvBob wrote:
Let's you see try.
<3 that.
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Hey, CDR got some work there... thanks!
okay, first, i am unknown mafia-wise, right 
now, know me!
I read every single post in the 1st mafia. I was really surprised how stupid can a mayor be.
If i am a mafia, detectives can find it really easy, then people can lynch me as soon as they find no more double lynch is needed.
I spent only 30 minutes to get the list of profile, my linux awk skills did it
+ Show Spoiler +for you -- #! /bin/gawk -f BEGIN { username=ENVIRON["CURRENT_USER"] echo username if (username == "") { print("No CURRENT_USER defined"); exit 1; } } /User name/ { puname=1; next; } /Joined TL.net/ {pjoin=1; next; } /Birthday/ {pbd=1; next; } /Country/ {pct=1; next; } /Quote/ {pquote=1; next; } /Public Profile:/{ppublic=1; next; } // { if (puname == 1 && uname == "") { // parse this line as user name gsub(/<\/font.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); uname = trim($0); puname=0 } if (pjoin == 1 && join == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); join = trim($0); pjoin=0 } if (pbd == 1 && bd == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); bd = trim($0); pbd=0 } if (pct == 1 && ct == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); ct = trim($0); pct=0 } if (pquote == 1 && quote == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); quote = trim($0); pquote=0 } if (ppublic == 1 && public == "") { } } END { dir="./users/" username system("mkdir -p '" dir "'"); fln = dir "/joined tl.net" print join > fln fln = dir "/birthday" print bd > fln fln = dir "/country" print ct > fln fln = dir "/quote" print quote > fln fln = dir "/dispname" print uname > fln print " Display Name : " uname print " Birthday : " bd print " Country : " ct print " Joined : " join print " Quote : " quote } function trim(s) { gsub(/^[[:blank  ]*/, "", s); gsub(/[[:blank ]*$/, "", s); return s }
ok, now stop looking around and vote for araav!
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I have a plan to find fake detectives. Using up their 2 investigates is not a problem if you can be sure the mayor and the detectives are the real deal.
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On March 18 2008 17:06 Pangolin wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2008 17:02 aZnvaLiaNce wrote:
See, all this business behind what strategy is best for the future mayor is all based on the honor code and who's being honest. Seriously, I think it's best to put the strategy behind us until the first day/night cycle is done just to see how the important roles act/react to events happening, in particular the mayor. So if we are not choosing the mayor based on their strategy, then how do you suggest we choose the mayor?
Choosing a mayor is almost purely subjective and based on whim and maybe a little on the day post for those who can interpret the clues given. I'm not arguing on how to choose the mayor. I'm arguing on what the mayor should do once he/she is elected.
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Ok ACE, I think Ghar's already posted your plan. So as I understand it, it's up for a real detective to report the mayor as mafia in case he is mafia. To verify this, we lynch said detective (as he's going to get killed anyway if he's real) to see if he's telling the truth. If he wasn't, that's one mafia down. If he was, then we lynch the mayor next. From there on, the mayor does his best to verify the other roles. I buy it so far, but I'll think about it before I vote. For now anyway, my vote is leading towards Ghar, because it's becoming more apparent to me how much rests on the mayor's shoulders, and Ghar's the only one who's given us a solid strategy. I also don't think he's mafia because of how fast his candidacy came up. I agree with bumatlarge. If I were mob, I wouldn't go run for mayor on a whim the moment the game starts.
Also, I feel like a lot of people aren't giving the mayoral election a lot of thought. A HUGE amount of the detective work rests on the mayor's shoulders. Voting for somebody because they mass PMed you is a bad idea. If you're running for mayor on those grounds, seriously, give it a break.
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On March 18 2008 17:25 araav wrote:Hey, CDR got some work there... thanks! okay, first, i am unknown mafia-wise, right now, know me! I read every single post in the 1st mafia. I was really surprised how stupid can a mayor be. If i am a mafia, detectives can find it really easy, then people can lynch me as soon as they find no more double lynch is needed. I spent only 30 minutes to get the list of profile, my linux awk skills did it + Show Spoiler +for you -- #! /bin/gawk -f BEGIN { username=ENVIRON["CURRENT_USER"] echo username if (username == "") { print("No CURRENT_USER defined"); exit 1; } } /User name/ { puname=1; next; } /Joined TL.net/ {pjoin=1; next; } /Birthday/ {pbd=1; next; } /Country/ {pct=1; next; } /Quote/ {pquote=1; next; } /Public Profile:/{ppublic=1; next; } // { if (puname == 1 && uname == "") { // parse this line as user name gsub(/<\/font.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); uname = trim($0); puname=0 } if (pjoin == 1 && join == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); join = trim($0); pjoin=0 } if (pbd == 1 && bd == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); bd = trim($0); pbd=0 } if (pct == 1 && ct == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); ct = trim($0); pct=0 } if (pquote == 1 && quote == "") { gsub(/<\/td.*/, ""); gsub(/<.*>/, ""); quote = trim($0); pquote=0 } if (ppublic == 1 && public == "") { } } END { dir="./users/" username system("mkdir -p '" dir "'"); fln = dir "/joined tl.net" print join > fln fln = dir "/birthday" print bd > fln fln = dir "/country" print ct > fln fln = dir "/quote" print quote > fln fln = dir "/dispname" print uname > fln print " Display Name : " uname print " Birthday : " bd print " Country : " ct print " Joined : " join print " Quote : " quote } function trim(s) { gsub(/^[[:blank ]*/, "", s); gsub(/[[:blank ]*$/, "", s); return s } ok, now stop looking around and vote for araav!
sick c++ skills you got there, araav.
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EPT
