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On March 09 2024 01:56 CopCake wrote:
Jelaous is just pretending to care to have reads, complains about people derailing the thread, but he considered “vivax slapping dumb” a very good answer.
I think he doesnt care about reads but just wants to look “good”
Okay, I'm now just convinced that you have significant reading comprehension issues, so basically anything you say is NAI. This is just such a horrifically bad take that it can only come as a result of your eyes tricking you into believing you know how to read.
Here are points I was responding to:
Starting a discussion with Dp with my English, his ambition and his never-ending questions get on my nerves. I would never voluntarily start a discussion with him if I didn't have to and the only reason I do it is because he is my main scum read.
Being scum was really fun for me and that would take the fun out of it ergo I can not be scum
^ This was included in my quote for context.
I put myself under pressure to start that shit with dp. I know i couldn´t handle that as well as I should so why should I do that as mafia? I knew he gonna give me a lot of pressure more then all the other players would, so again why should I start that and not just take someone easyer do try do lynch and go more with the crowd thoughts. Why even start with the master? I would not be that stupid as mafia
^ This is what I was responding to more specifically.
Here is what I said in response to that:
Okay, now I understand what you were saying before. Thanks for clarifying. I actually kinda like this thought process because at least I get it.
You can tell, because what I am responding to is right above what I wrote. You can see the original post here:
https://tl.net/forum/mafia/621454-a-classy-game-of-mafia?page=187#3731
The part about ass slapping, honestly I just ignored it.
CopCake, I know you're only working with what God gave you. But please, when you think that something doesn't make sense or is funny because it's dumb, try to consider if maybe the problem lies within, not without.
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On March 09 2024 02:04 Vivax wrote:
Cop sounds more line an ahuyasca shaman at this point than a mafia player
Yes, this. Reading tea leaves, as I said before. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it. It's just one step removed from AI-generated Race Bannon posting.
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On March 09 2024 05:53 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 02:04 Vivax wrote:
Cop sounds more line an ahuyasca shaman at this point than a mafia player Yes, this. Reading tea leaves, as I said before. I'm glad I'm not the only one who sees it. It's just one step removed from AI-generated Race Bannon posting.
Next she gonna do the rayndance to resurrect him
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On March 09 2024 02:06 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 01:58 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 09 2024 01:42 marvellosity wrote:On March 09 2024 01:31 Meapak_Ziphh wrote:On March 09 2024 01:21 CopCake wrote:
MZ, i dont wanna be mean but I answered your question.
Did it help somehow with your reads? I understand you were confused about slam's choice. I was trying to figure out if that stemmed purely from questioning slam or if it was also driven by a townread of Oats. I think it helped. The biggest thing for me right now are the amount of people who voted Oats while calling him town. People caveating their votes like that is making me second guess some things. At least you decided to scum read him based on the NKs after I asked you the questions yesterday morning. … do you not think he looks town and are you not voting for him? I thought his case on me was a little opportunistic but a lot of the stuff after that has looked better/town than anything else he's posted this game. I am voting him because I think he's going to flip red bc the math says so. Notice I'm not voting him and saying "oh yeah but I think he'll flip town." It's stuff like that which is giving me pause on him tbh, why vote on him when you think he'll flip town. If you think he's gonna flip town as Miller then why are you voting for him. If you think he got framed why are you voting for him. In a vacuum I think he's going to flip red because of how unlikely it is for either of those events to occur. But everyone being so wishy washy with their votes is making me uncomfortable. This is just semantics though. I’m honestly not saying this to be a dick, but I see what you’re saying and what I’ve said (I am just an example, there are others like me) as functionally equivalent. Which is the dude looks town (‘I think he’s town’ and ‘he looks town’ are the same statement in the context of the red check) but that’s where the vote ends up. It’s just different ways of people expressing their read. And people understanding it’s very difficult to overcome a personal read in the face of a red check. Do you see what I’m saying?
Just want to say that this is exactly where I'm at, as I am one of those people that MZ quoted in their diatribe about 10/15 people thinking Oats is town and how that is a problem.
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On March 09 2024 04:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Skimmed through jealous’ filter and I think I’m just more annoyed at the playstyle than anything that actually makes him scummy so he’s in the town pile
How would you characterize my play style? What annoys you?
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On March 09 2024 06:01 Jealous wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 04:25 Oatsmaster wrote:
Skimmed through jealous’ filter and I think I’m just more annoyed at the playstyle than anything that actually makes him scummy so he’s in the town pile How would you characterize my play style? What annoys you?
The part where you go through and summerize people’s votes/reads as a whole and then kinda go off that instead of having specific posts.
Feels too structured to me but I understand that people have different play styles
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So, I'm going to finally make the case you've all been waiting for.
[b]raynpelikoneet is scum[b]
The entire case hinges on two points. There is some other weirdness in his postings, but those are by far the most important ones
Point 1 - rayn demands, twice and in all caps, that I make a case on Vivax
The reason this is important is because it clearly implies rayn never actually read my filter
On March 06 2024 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WHERE IS YOUR FUCKING CASE ON VIVAX, PALMAR?
On March 06 2024 22:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 08:55 Palmar wrote:
I'm finalizing here.
I like a bunch of mafia in:
rayn
jat
rels
mz
tts
then there's gonna be some mafia in the people who should be killed on policy
vivax
trfel
hapa
then there's the people that need constant monitoring and need to improve
iamp
marv
jealous
copcake
slam
ve
and finally we have the people I have somewhere from mild to good reasons to think are town
sandro
oats
dp
dmb
jls
koshi
None of the lists are in any particular order
I don't really think Trfel will flip mafia. It's just a "I believe in people" read that he wouldn't fuck off like that as mafia with the whole "If I get lynched I get lynched" thing. But it's an objectively good lynch so I'm not going to fight it all that hard. Leaving my vote on jat. I've been burned before by placing too much faith in people not doing crazy things as mafia so it's whatever. where is your case on vivax?
But the problem is, I had explained my stance on Vivax multiple times in the thread. Like I'm actually kinda annoyed with myself for how often I repeated that same point.
Here's a link to a post where I summarized me repeatedly expressing the same stance on Vivax.
https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=28152997
In conclusion. rayn considers me his #1 lynch target but hasn't actually read my filter and doesn't know my stances.
Point 2 - rayn refuses to acknowledge that I don't think and play like him
This one is a little more nuanced to explain, especially to people who weren't involved in the last game we played, but for context here's the gist of it.
On day 3, I am town and kinda think rayn may be town. rayn is however mafia and is tunneling me as an established scumread.
The most significant post here is this:
On December 16 2023 22:59 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar can you make a post about why it's reasonable to assume i am mafia with (1) sandroba or (2) holyflare? I don’t make associative reads
In the same way as he does this game for the mason thing, rayn demands a townread because I have other people that aren't him as possible mafia, and then claims it's impossible that they could be scum together.
To me, this is a clear logical fallacy, because it assumes that I'm always right on my scumreads other than rayn. I explain this even further here in the last game.
On December 17 2023 01:24 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 16 2023 23:33 Palmar wrote:
Rayn, I’m not going to read your entire filter because I don’t hate myself. But I did open it and read from the bottom up. I can’t remember if this is something you normally do but you’re spending almost no effort on forming town reads. The best I could find was like “maybe marv is just town” and something like that.
Like have you at any point in this game tried to argue that someone is town? Do youthink that's something that makes me mafia? I mean like its probably the easiest thing to do as mafia, call townies town for correct reasons. I also heavily abuse that fact as mafia. I dont care if you do associative reads or not. I find it suspicious that the people who i sm literally the least likely to be mafia with ate the ones you geoup with me being mafia with snd just sit on that. Also i disagree that i had no influence on the game. Its true i have not been as active as usual. But i was a key factor to almost change the lynch from Vivax to sandroba D1, and i also believe i was one of the key votes to lynch Chezinu. In order cause phoneposting. Not necessarily but it’s different from what I do. I said I can’t remember if it’s normal for you. Again, I don’t think this way. Maybe I’m wrong on something. Maybe mafia is playing lone wolf. I just don’t care at all who is likely to be mafia with who. It has no impact on how I think about any game. You HAVE been active. You have one of the longest filters in the game. You just haven’t been influential.
So given that we literally had this discussion last game, rayn's claim THIS game that I must be mafia because I refuse to think in associations like he does means he has to be scum himself.
Not because he doesn't know my playstyle, that's actually completely acceptable
he's mafia because he's reminded that I just explained my playstyle to him last game, I play like I always do again, and remind him that's how I think, but he still refuses to listen
This means he doesn't WANT to listen, and his objective isn't actually finding out my alignment, just wants to kill me.
In conclusion: raynpelikoneet
I mean the only other option is that he's a moron.
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On March 08 2024 15:25 Oatsmaster wrote:Alright Palmar: He has 11 pages, that’s really surprising to me tbh, again like I said earlier with rels, if I can’t remember what you posted, that’s bad. Show nested quote +On March 05 2024 22:48 Palmar wrote:
I need Sandroba to come convince me his mason buddies aren't just mafia.
I really, really, really don't think marv just tries to kill me without even talking about it. I really don’t like this post, it has the inbuilt assumption that Sandro is town and the only other post that Palmar made preceding this about Sandro he expressed suspicion at the 3 in the Mason group. It not a natural anything. Palmar is just posting for the sake of posting. He then comes back to this Sandro read and justifies it after the fact as if he arrived at it later on which is obviously not the case. Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 06:46 Palmar wrote:Marv is very, very, very likely to be mafia. I already didn't love his stance on the Vivax thing and his tone in the thread. Then this line of thinking is really what's sealing the deal. On March 06 2024 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 06 2024 00:12 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 00:09 iamperfection wrote:On March 06 2024 00:07 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 00:00 marvellosity wrote:
Do you know why I normally tr read you Palmar? No idea. Or well, I do have a guess that it's largely a tone read coupled with some parameters on how I think about the game. Honestly, doesn't really matter to me. But please do explain because I'm going to enjoy watching your backtrack if I flip before you this game. Unless.... You just wanna be my friend and give me a townread. In your mind this is town marv coming after you? I don't know. I want marv to be happier, more excited, and maybe a little friendlier. But I don't really think I can call him mafia for being lazy and boring. He does after all have his little mason society to retreat to. Mostly, I kinda just don't care at the moment. Marv has integrity and respect for the game. He is, usually, to be counted on to continue playing past day 1, and he is good enough that he can be forced to participate usefully or die. Even if I'm kinda suspicious, or at least uncomfortable, about his alignment at the moment, it's not a productive venue for today. Also, his reaction to me actually playing the game is going to be very interesting. Mafia. Should be calling me bad. Isn’t. Mafia. This isn't a valid complaint. I'm not gonna call marv bad when he votes for me. In fact, I kinda understand why he voted for me early on. I had done very little as I was busy yesterday. Today I produced a long filter with all kinds of reads and explanations of them and that did absolutely nothing to budge his opinion on me. I don't really know what sandroba thinks of me but he did come back and kinda changed his mind, at least moved off the scumread a little bit. But marv is dug in. He is not this certain about my alignment if he's town. There should be some doubt in him. I actually think Oats looks a lot better for this observation On March 06 2024 01:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
I’m trying to wrap my head around this Palmar push by marv and what it means for marvs alignment.
I think Palmar has been way more townie this last like 5 pages and that only seems to solidify marvs read Like this is what I expect people to do who don't just want a kill. I don't think marv is bad, I just think he's scum. And if ANYONE buys this logic with me dead, that person is an infinite moron. On March 06 2024 00:10 marvellosity wrote:On March 06 2024 00:07 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 00:00 marvellosity wrote:
Do you know why I normally tr read you Palmar? No idea. Or well, I do have a guess that it's largely a tone read coupled with some parameters on how I think about the game. Honestly, doesn't really matter to me. But please do explain because I'm going to enjoy watching your backtrack if I flip before you this game. Unless.... You just wanna be my friend and give me a townread. You’re fairly close. And those things remain consistent despite your time allowances. And they’re absent here. So you’re mafia. And - i know you know I don’t push for you like this as mafia. As if you are town  I am putting myself in an incredibly difficult spot when the person I know best flips town. It’s a terrible play. The only logical explanation is I am town and I think you are mafia.
You know this. If you were town you’d be much more actively calling me stupid and all those normal things. But you’re not. This is not true. This read is a lotta words for calling marv scum cause bad. I mean just read it, there’s no logical consistency for why Palmar has such a strong read on Marv based on the evidence he provides Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 19:53 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 19:47 CopCake wrote:On March 06 2024 19:44 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 06 2024 19:42 CopCake wrote:
Can someone link me the infamous "DP was mafia" game? Tbh I think dps filter is massive. So big I don't think he's ever had a filter this size before as mafia. If he's mafia he has taken it to heights since unknown. His recent game in which he fooled grack, rayn and idk who else, oats? Ok if you're town and you admit you suck as town, maybe listen to some experience. DP is very good as mafia and can be mafia here. But it's a huge game and we need to prioritize. We're not lynching people who are making sense, making good calls and leading town when we have plenty of lower hanging fruit to go after. You HAVE to be willing to be wrong to be good at town. You can always change your mind later. I was wrong so much last game and ended up back to back supporting lynch on mafia I had called town to win the game last game. And doing so I sheeped/supported people I had (wrongly) called mafia all game. Re-evaluating based on game state is NOT A BAD THING. Killing a town leader with a huge filter and good takes is just tinfoil hat bad play. No need to be a hero when there's administrative tasks to be finished first. If DP is mafia we'll cross that bridge when we get there. You're not using your time efficiently by chasing him at the moment. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. People are really afraid of "getting fooled" by good mafia, but the reality it's so much worse to get fooled by bad mafia. If let's say... TTS and DP are both mafia, I'd much rather be fooled by DP than TTS. This is just a classic mafia advice post that pushes nothing but appears to be helpful by telling cake to move along Show nested quote +On March 07 2024 00:56 Palmar wrote:On March 07 2024 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I entirely dislike that you even have a thought in your head at any point of the game that me and marv are mafia together (which you had as per your posts). And i think it makes you mafia.
Again, I understand you disliking it, but now that I've reminded you that these kind of associative reads don't really matter to me as town, doesn't that change your stance? This is after Palmar expresses a scumread on rayn, during their conversation. Does this sound like someone who thinks that the person he’s talking to is town? I don’t think so and I think it’s clear he tried to attempt to distance from the flip. There’s just nothing from day 2 besides using bad math to justify lynching me, no engagement just checking boxes. This was longer than I thought it was but yeah this is where my current read on Palmar is. @copcake from what I can tell from the voting around Palmar going from lead lynch to no votes was marv dropping his read along with trfel getting wagoned on but it’s a mixed bag with slam and vivax on that wagon too so I’m not really sure if there was mafia involvement
OMGUS
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##Unvote
##Vote raynpelikoneet
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But to answer, the reason I said sandroba is that at the time he was the one of them not wanting to kill me.
Also marv is bad if he thinks I'm mafia and I'm town. It's a pretty universal tell. All that marv-posting was just made in case I died. It can be safely ignored.
Also, bad Oats for calling me scum for being nice. I'm really working hard on being nice to people in mafia games, and I actually have some pretty strong opinions on how to approach the game. I love spreading the word on these.
And the last point is quite simple, I am actually very surprised that rayn doesn't change his read after being reminded. This is just me trying to beat into his thick skull that he should know how I approach scumhunting. But my strength falters... the skull is too thick.
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On March 09 2024 06:36 Palmar wrote:Show nested quote +On March 08 2024 15:25 Oatsmaster wrote:Alright Palmar: He has 11 pages, that’s really surprising to me tbh, again like I said earlier with rels, if I can’t remember what you posted, that’s bad. On March 05 2024 22:48 Palmar wrote:
I need Sandroba to come convince me his mason buddies aren't just mafia.
I really, really, really don't think marv just tries to kill me without even talking about it. I really don’t like this post, it has the inbuilt assumption that Sandro is town and the only other post that Palmar made preceding this about Sandro he expressed suspicion at the 3 in the Mason group. It not a natural anything. Palmar is just posting for the sake of posting. He then comes back to this Sandro read and justifies it after the fact as if he arrived at it later on which is obviously not the case. On March 06 2024 06:46 Palmar wrote:Marv is very, very, very likely to be mafia. I already didn't love his stance on the Vivax thing and his tone in the thread. Then this line of thinking is really what's sealing the deal. On March 06 2024 00:13 marvellosity wrote:On March 06 2024 00:12 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 00:09 iamperfection wrote:On March 06 2024 00:07 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 00:00 marvellosity wrote:
Do you know why I normally tr read you Palmar? No idea. Or well, I do have a guess that it's largely a tone read coupled with some parameters on how I think about the game. Honestly, doesn't really matter to me. But please do explain because I'm going to enjoy watching your backtrack if I flip before you this game. Unless.... You just wanna be my friend and give me a townread. In your mind this is town marv coming after you? I don't know. I want marv to be happier, more excited, and maybe a little friendlier. But I don't really think I can call him mafia for being lazy and boring. He does after all have his little mason society to retreat to. Mostly, I kinda just don't care at the moment. Marv has integrity and respect for the game. He is, usually, to be counted on to continue playing past day 1, and he is good enough that he can be forced to participate usefully or die. Even if I'm kinda suspicious, or at least uncomfortable, about his alignment at the moment, it's not a productive venue for today. Also, his reaction to me actually playing the game is going to be very interesting. Mafia. Should be calling me bad. Isn’t. Mafia. This isn't a valid complaint. I'm not gonna call marv bad when he votes for me. In fact, I kinda understand why he voted for me early on. I had done very little as I was busy yesterday. Today I produced a long filter with all kinds of reads and explanations of them and that did absolutely nothing to budge his opinion on me. I don't really know what sandroba thinks of me but he did come back and kinda changed his mind, at least moved off the scumread a little bit. But marv is dug in. He is not this certain about my alignment if he's town. There should be some doubt in him. I actually think Oats looks a lot better for this observation On March 06 2024 01:21 Oatsmaster wrote:
I’m trying to wrap my head around this Palmar push by marv and what it means for marvs alignment.
I think Palmar has been way more townie this last like 5 pages and that only seems to solidify marvs read Like this is what I expect people to do who don't just want a kill. I don't think marv is bad, I just think he's scum. And if ANYONE buys this logic with me dead, that person is an infinite moron. On March 06 2024 00:10 marvellosity wrote:On March 06 2024 00:07 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 00:00 marvellosity wrote:
Do you know why I normally tr read you Palmar? No idea. Or well, I do have a guess that it's largely a tone read coupled with some parameters on how I think about the game. Honestly, doesn't really matter to me. But please do explain because I'm going to enjoy watching your backtrack if I flip before you this game. Unless.... You just wanna be my friend and give me a townread. You’re fairly close. And those things remain consistent despite your time allowances. And they’re absent here. So you’re mafia. And - i know you know I don’t push for you like this as mafia. As if you are town I am putting myself in an incredibly difficult spot when the person I know best flips town. It’s a terrible play. The only logical explanation is I am town and I think you are mafia.
You know this. If you were town you’d be much more actively calling me stupid and all those normal things. But you’re not. This is not true. This read is a lotta words for calling marv scum cause bad. I mean just read it, there’s no logical consistency for why Palmar has such a strong read on Marv based on the evidence he provides On March 06 2024 19:53 Palmar wrote:On March 06 2024 19:47 CopCake wrote:On March 06 2024 19:44 JacobStrangelove wrote:On March 06 2024 19:42 CopCake wrote:
Can someone link me the infamous "DP was mafia" game? Tbh I think dps filter is massive. So big I don't think he's ever had a filter this size before as mafia. If he's mafia he has taken it to heights since unknown. His recent game in which he fooled grack, rayn and idk who else, oats? Ok if you're town and you admit you suck as town, maybe listen to some experience. DP is very good as mafia and can be mafia here. But it's a huge game and we need to prioritize. We're not lynching people who are making sense, making good calls and leading town when we have plenty of lower hanging fruit to go after. You HAVE to be willing to be wrong to be good at town. You can always change your mind later. I was wrong so much last game and ended up back to back supporting lynch on mafia I had called town to win the game last game. And doing so I sheeped/supported people I had (wrongly) called mafia all game. Re-evaluating based on game state is NOT A BAD THING. Killing a town leader with a huge filter and good takes is just tinfoil hat bad play. No need to be a hero when there's administrative tasks to be finished first. If DP is mafia we'll cross that bridge when we get there. You're not using your time efficiently by chasing him at the moment. We'll cross that bridge when we get there. People are really afraid of "getting fooled" by good mafia, but the reality it's so much worse to get fooled by bad mafia. If let's say... TTS and DP are both mafia, I'd much rather be fooled by DP than TTS. This is just a classic mafia advice post that pushes nothing but appears to be helpful by telling cake to move along On March 07 2024 00:56 Palmar wrote:On March 07 2024 00:45 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I entirely dislike that you even have a thought in your head at any point of the game that me and marv are mafia together (which you had as per your posts). And i think it makes you mafia.
Again, I understand you disliking it, but now that I've reminded you that these kind of associative reads don't really matter to me as town, doesn't that change your stance? This is after Palmar expresses a scumread on rayn, during their conversation. Does this sound like someone who thinks that the person he’s talking to is town? I don’t think so and I think it’s clear he tried to attempt to distance from the flip. There’s just nothing from day 2 besides using bad math to justify lynching me, no engagement just checking boxes. This was longer than I thought it was but yeah this is where my current read on Palmar is. @copcake from what I can tell from the voting around Palmar going from lead lynch to no votes was marv dropping his read along with trfel getting wagoned on but it’s a mixed bag with slam and vivax on that wagon too so I’m not really sure if there was mafia involvement OMGUS
I mean the rayn case made me laugh thanks for that
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On March 09 2024 06:41 Palmar wrote:
But to answer, the reason I said sandroba is that at the time he was the one of them not wanting to kill me.
Also marv is bad if he thinks I'm mafia and I'm town. It's a pretty universal tell. All that marv-posting was just made in case I died. It can be safely ignored.
Also, bad Oats for calling me scum for being nice. I'm really working hard on being nice to people in mafia games, and I actually have some pretty strong opinions on how to approach the game. I love spreading the word on these.
And the last point is quite simple, I am actually very surprised that rayn doesn't change his read after being reminded. This is just me trying to beat into his thick skull that he should know how I approach scumhunting. But my strength falters... the skull is too thick.
I’ll make it up to you if you vote for VE
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So like I'm going to try to sort of organize the game in my head, and I'm going to do it out loud, so you can watch me think. It's a fascinating display.
We probably have about 5 mafia in this game. It could be 4, but then they have very strong roles. Normal balance would suggest 5.
This means I need to start sort of filtering down the people I want to think about.
First up, the people I don't really want to lynch or even consider at all:
DarthPunk for huge filter and repeatedly liking his takes on things.
Vivax because that's the gamble we made when we didn't policy lynch him.
Then there's the weaker town reads that are definitely going to contain some mafia:
Koshi was very good early day 1, but I feel like his impact has been reduced. Still not enough to start calling him mafia
marvellosity - I kinda think he's maybe town, he did come around on me correctly, and I kinda trust sandro's read. So for what it's worth, he goes into the "worry later" pile.
Then there's the people who will be resolved by today
Slam - we lynch slam if Oats flips non-miller town. The frame idea is statistically so unlikely
Oats - we lynch Oats today because despite his efforts, there is like 90% chance of him flipping mafia. He does look and say townie things which is pretty well played, but the odds of any other random player flipping red just happen to be significantly lower
Frame math:
Slam check 1/18 (lynches + himself) players = 5.56% chance he checks Oats
Framer frames 1/14 players (21 - 2 lynches - 5 mafia) = 7.14% chance Oats gets framed
This means there's like... 0.3% chance a framer hits the same target the cop checks (but obviously intiution skews this a lot) it's still the best play to do it like that.
Actually as I write this I realize I have way too few townread, which means I really, really need to get work done. For one reason or another I don't trust any of the people below.
Jealous - lack of investigation from me, little posting
Meapak_Ziphh - lack of investigation from me, I'm masoned with the dude but I'm a terrible mason partner because I think they're stupid. That's mostly on me. I also recall some of his posting being a little meek
justanothertownie - Some really atrocious takes throughout the game. Bullshit associative reads and voting without any kind of analysis.
die_meatbaby - lack of investigation from me. I remember having a different feel from last game, but she still gets stuck on dumb shit.
CopCake - I kinda liked rayn's point during the night. Also she should really think I'm town after our discussion in the night.
JacobStrangelove - This guy is clearly just smart. I liked his posting because it's all pretty reasonable, but I feel like he isn't moving the needle at all this game. Happy sitting back and not getting listened to.
Iamperfection - One particularly terrible take during the night, but maybe he just doesn't know what a policy lynch is. I didn't follow up enough to understand if it was malicious or just kinda stupid.
ToTheStars - lurker
VisceraEyes - Fell off cliff. Where VE?
Rels - Terrible case on me on day 1 that reeked of mafia trying to "contribute". Super clear he wasn't caught up on the game and lacked opinionsþ
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God I'm so lazy and bad at this game.
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I might actually go dive sandro for more reads. Seeing as I'm bad maybe just rely on good townies.
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On March 09 2024 06:35 Palmar wrote:So, I'm going to finally make the case you've all been waiting for. [b] raynpelikoneet is scum[b] The entire case hinges on two points. There is some other weirdness in his postings, but those are by far the most important ones Point 1 - rayn demands, twice and in all caps, that I make a case on VivaxThe reason this is important is because it clearly implies rayn never actually read my filter Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WHERE IS YOUR FUCKING CASE ON VIVAX, PALMAR? Show nested quote +On March 06 2024 22:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2024 08:55 Palmar wrote:
I'm finalizing here.
I like a bunch of mafia in:
rayn
jat
rels
mz
tts
then there's gonna be some mafia in the people who should be killed on policy
vivax
trfel
hapa
then there's the people that need constant monitoring and need to improve
iamp
marv
jealous
copcake
slam
ve
and finally we have the people I have somewhere from mild to good reasons to think are town
sandro
oats
dp
dmb
jls
koshi
None of the lists are in any particular order
I don't really think Trfel will flip mafia. It's just a "I believe in people" read that he wouldn't fuck off like that as mafia with the whole "If I get lynched I get lynched" thing. But it's an objectively good lynch so I'm not going to fight it all that hard. Leaving my vote on jat. I've been burned before by placing too much faith in people not doing crazy things as mafia so it's whatever. where is your case on vivax? But the problem is, I had explained my stance on Vivax multiple times in the thread. Like I'm actually kinda annoyed with myself for how often I repeated that same point. Here's a link to a post where I summarized me repeatedly expressing the same stance on Vivax. https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=28152997In conclusion. rayn considers me his #1 lynch target but hasn't actually read my filter and doesn't know my stances. Point 2 - rayn refuses to acknowledge that I don't think and play like himThis one is a little more nuanced to explain, especially to people who weren't involved in the last game we played, but for context here's the gist of it. On day 3, I am town and kinda think rayn may be town. rayn is however mafia and is tunneling me as an established scumread. The most significant post here is this: Show nested quote +On December 16 2023 22:59 Palmar wrote:On December 16 2023 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar can you make a post about why it's reasonable to assume i am mafia with (1) sandroba or (2) holyflare? I don’t make associative reads In the same way as he does this game for the mason thing, rayn demands a townread because I have other people that aren't him as possible mafia, and then claims it's impossible that they could be scum together. To me, this is a clear logical fallacy, because it assumes that I'm always right on my scumreads other than rayn. I explain this even further here in the last game. Show nested quote +On December 17 2023 01:24 Palmar wrote:On December 16 2023 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 16 2023 23:33 Palmar wrote:
Rayn, I’m not going to read your entire filter because I don’t hate myself. But I did open it and read from the bottom up. I can’t remember if this is something you normally do but you’re spending almost no effort on forming town reads. The best I could find was like “maybe marv is just town” and something like that.
Like have you at any point in this game tried to argue that someone is town? Do youthink that's something that makes me mafia? I mean like its probably the easiest thing to do as mafia, call townies town for correct reasons. I also heavily abuse that fact as mafia. I dont care if you do associative reads or not. I find it suspicious that the people who i sm literally the least likely to be mafia with ate the ones you geoup with me being mafia with snd just sit on that. Also i disagree that i had no influence on the game. Its true i have not been as active as usual. But i was a key factor to almost change the lynch from Vivax to sandroba D1, and i also believe i was one of the key votes to lynch Chezinu. In order cause phoneposting. Not necessarily but it’s different from what I do. I said I can’t remember if it’s normal for you. Again, I don’t think this way. Maybe I’m wrong on something. Maybe mafia is playing lone wolf. I just don’t care at all who is likely to be mafia with who. It has no impact on how I think about any game. You HAVE been active. You have one of the longest filters in the game. You just haven’t been influential. So given that we literally had this discussion last game, rayn's claim THIS game that I must be mafia because I refuse to think in associations like he does means he has to be scum himself. Not because he doesn't know my playstyle, that's actually completely acceptable he's mafia because he's reminded that I just explained my playstyle to him last game, I play like I always do again, and remind him that's how I think, but he still refuses to listenThis means he doesn't WANT to listen, and his objective isn't actually finding out my alignment, just wants to kill me. In conclusion: raynpelikoneetI mean the only other option is that he's a moron.
Spends all day and all night making a case on why rayn is wrong instead of finding scum.
If oats wasn't red checked I would vote you now.
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On March 09 2024 07:02 JacobStrangelove wrote:Show nested quote +On March 09 2024 06:35 Palmar wrote:So, I'm going to finally make the case you've all been waiting for. [b] raynpelikoneet is scum[b] The entire case hinges on two points. There is some other weirdness in his postings, but those are by far the most important ones Point 1 - rayn demands, twice and in all caps, that I make a case on VivaxThe reason this is important is because it clearly implies rayn never actually read my filter On March 06 2024 22:55 raynpelikoneet wrote:
WHERE IS YOUR FUCKING CASE ON VIVAX, PALMAR? On March 06 2024 22:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:On March 06 2024 08:55 Palmar wrote:
I'm finalizing here.
I like a bunch of mafia in:
rayn
jat
rels
mz
tts
then there's gonna be some mafia in the people who should be killed on policy
vivax
trfel
hapa
then there's the people that need constant monitoring and need to improve
iamp
marv
jealous
copcake
slam
ve
and finally we have the people I have somewhere from mild to good reasons to think are town
sandro
oats
dp
dmb
jls
koshi
None of the lists are in any particular order
I don't really think Trfel will flip mafia. It's just a "I believe in people" read that he wouldn't fuck off like that as mafia with the whole "If I get lynched I get lynched" thing. But it's an objectively good lynch so I'm not going to fight it all that hard. Leaving my vote on jat. I've been burned before by placing too much faith in people not doing crazy things as mafia so it's whatever. where is your case on vivax? But the problem is, I had explained my stance on Vivax multiple times in the thread. Like I'm actually kinda annoyed with myself for how often I repeated that same point. Here's a link to a post where I summarized me repeatedly expressing the same stance on Vivax. https://tl.net/forum/viewpost.php?post_id=28152997In conclusion. rayn considers me his #1 lynch target but hasn't actually read my filter and doesn't know my stances. Point 2 - rayn refuses to acknowledge that I don't think and play like himThis one is a little more nuanced to explain, especially to people who weren't involved in the last game we played, but for context here's the gist of it. On day 3, I am town and kinda think rayn may be town. rayn is however mafia and is tunneling me as an established scumread. The most significant post here is this: On December 16 2023 22:59 Palmar wrote:On December 16 2023 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Palmar can you make a post about why it's reasonable to assume i am mafia with (1) sandroba or (2) holyflare? I don’t make associative reads In the same way as he does this game for the mason thing, rayn demands a townread because I have other people that aren't him as possible mafia, and then claims it's impossible that they could be scum together. To me, this is a clear logical fallacy, because it assumes that I'm always right on my scumreads other than rayn. I explain this even further here in the last game. On December 17 2023 01:24 Palmar wrote:On December 16 2023 23:53 raynpelikoneet wrote:On December 16 2023 23:33 Palmar wrote:
Rayn, I’m not going to read your entire filter because I don’t hate myself. But I did open it and read from the bottom up. I can’t remember if this is something you normally do but you’re spending almost no effort on forming town reads. The best I could find was like “maybe marv is just town” and something like that.
Like have you at any point in this game tried to argue that someone is town? Do youthink that's something that makes me mafia? I mean like its probably the easiest thing to do as mafia, call townies town for correct reasons. I also heavily abuse that fact as mafia. I dont care if you do associative reads or not. I find it suspicious that the people who i sm literally the least likely to be mafia with ate the ones you geoup with me being mafia with snd just sit on that. Also i disagree that i had no influence on the game. Its true i have not been as active as usual. But i was a key factor to almost change the lynch from Vivax to sandroba D1, and i also believe i was one of the key votes to lynch Chezinu. In order cause phoneposting. Not necessarily but it’s different from what I do. I said I can’t remember if it’s normal for you. Again, I don’t think this way. Maybe I’m wrong on something. Maybe mafia is playing lone wolf. I just don’t care at all who is likely to be mafia with who. It has no impact on how I think about any game. You HAVE been active. You have one of the longest filters in the game. You just haven’t been influential. So given that we literally had this discussion last game, rayn's claim THIS game that I must be mafia because I refuse to think in associations like he does means he has to be scum himself. Not because he doesn't know my playstyle, that's actually completely acceptable he's mafia because he's reminded that I just explained my playstyle to him last game, I play like I always do again, and remind him that's how I think, but he still refuses to listenThis means he doesn't WANT to listen, and his objective isn't actually finding out my alignment, just wants to kill me. In conclusion: raynpelikoneetI mean the only other option is that he's a moron. Spends all day and all night making a case on why rayn is wrong instead of finding scum. If oats wasn't red checked I would vote you now.
That took me like 15 minutes.
But as I said I'm filter diving sandroba right now and he thought you were mafia.
And it's interesting that your approach to my rayn case is not "lol what a moron" but instead "NO FUN ALLOWED!!"
Cool.
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On March 06 2024 22:37 sandroba wrote:
I'm liking palmar more and more. His night posts read really genuine to me, maybe I'm a fool but I'm prob not going after palmar d2.
Marv had some paranoind behavior in the qt which has fully convinced me he is town.
I think these are the big question marks for people and I think they are both town.
By process of elimination here is what I'm at:
Likely mafia: ve + rels - both didn't care one bit about the lynch imo
Depending on TTS being mafia or town it leave us 2/3 mafia in this pile:
mz, jsl, jat, cop, dmb, slam
This is where I'm at.
Yeah, seems like Sandro was largely on the same page as I am today. So I'm kinda happy with that. He doesn't mention the people I think are probably town (DP, koshi, vivax) and I liked his read on marv.
Also Sandro like Jealous posting, and I'm kinda inclined to sheep that read as well, as it makes the game even simpler for me. I think I recall liking Jelous' huge post on day 1, and anything that helps me eliminate people is good.
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On March 09 2024 06:59 Palmar wrote:
JacobStrangelove - This guy is clearly just smart. I liked his posting because it's all pretty reasonable, but I feel like he isn't moving the needle at all this game. Happy sitting back and not getting listened to.
So JSL claiming gunsmith unCC'd doesn't matter to you?
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EPT
