EPT[N]A Mostly Normal Game of Mafia
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Tictock
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Tictock
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Tictock
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What up Mostly Normal people? | ||
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Tictock
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You are Inconsequential. It is possible for you to win, but it's ultimately meaningless. | ||
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Tictock
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Up to you if you prefer the sadist/masochistic route. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 24 2020 05:49 Fecalfeast wrote: Oh wait that's a mayor vote ##unvote ##vote fecalfeast Your campaign is starting on shakey ground imo | ||
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Tictock
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On November 24 2020 06:47 raynpelikoneet wrote: You are right i am. Because honestly i want either him or me to be the mayor. I dont really care which one in case he is town. Because of two things i think that; One, the mayor has a bodyguard. In case hapa is town and mayor he becomes even "more very very valuable" asset to the town as it will take at least two night for mafia to get rid of him. I obviously also think i am better than anyone else (or at least on par) so the same goes for me.  Two, you have a tendency to "drop out" at times and/or forget/fail to send in actions/properly read the game, and therefore i can name other people too that would in my opinion be more valuable as mayor in case they are town. I also dont like you take on the pardoner, but i dont think that means anything towards your alignment. Pardoner should pretty much never use the power. Period.The points are slightly more important than what Drew Carey is known for giving out. | ||
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Tictock
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I take Trfel's bumbling to be fairly genuine and am ok hand waving Gracks tone as town (honestly have only skimmed his posts though). If I had to shoot anyone right now (who has posted) I would kill FF. See you guys in a few more levels. | ||
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Tictock
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Seeing how I am not particularly focused on the game right now I should not be mayor. However I will nominate myself for Pardoner as I am smart enough to know to never use it. On the other hand and maybe just to contradict myself... I feel ok letting my last post stand as a potential mayoral promise. | ||
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Tictock
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This is the post that makes me want to lynch FF On November 24 2020 17:28 Fecalfeast wrote: i forgot sorry hi what's up He had made several posts before this, so why is he making apologies and excuses. His next post even suggests he remembered he was running for mayor. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 25 2020 00:35 Grackaroni wrote: lol have you been playing WoW since the start of the game? Since Vanilla? No, I got into the game during Wrath of the Litch King (which is a bit ironic as this expansion is kinda a follow up to it) and have played at least the launch of every expansion since. It's been a long time since I raided seriously or anything. I have actually managed to pretty much hit end game here as well so should put in a bit of time tonight and be around before deadline. At this point anybody seriously wanting to be mayor had better have actual opinions, a preffered lynch target, and reasons why. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 25 2020 06:25 ShoCkeyy wrote: Could be, why else would he try hard to be mayor? This is pretty shit when you've basically only posted that you should be mayor up till here. Actually it's pretty shit anyway. | ||
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Tictock
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You shouldn't need to ask this. My opinions haven't really changed. | ||
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Tictock
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As far as I can tell nobody really has Sus on him so it's weird to me that more ppl are not supporting him. I kinda want to say I'd preffer mayor be between Rayn and Grack (as I also trust either to be pardoner), but thats a bit hard for me to say when Grack (as well as 90%) of the game want me dead. | ||
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Tictock
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I understand I am not putting in much effort, but I do not get where this expectation of me is coming from right now, and besides... also much more importantly... eh | ||
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Tictock
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1) I think he is most likely town 2) He generally has good reads (at least as good as anyone else in the game) 3) HE IS AN AMAZING PLAYER TO GIVE A BODYGUARD TO! I think everyone is forgetting about #3 here... And there is even bonus lols if I push for him to be mayor and he kills me. This is clearly the way forward. | ||
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Tictock
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His vote for Trfel as mayor is a bit weird and weak, says he is the "logical" choice. Scumread on Grack due to him campaigning for mayor and "soft-pushing" Trfel. I have a hard time believing Hapa has this good of a townread on Trfel. Also does not seem that he has sus on Rayn so I'm not clear why Hapa would prefer Trfel>Rayn | ||
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Tictock
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On November 25 2020 00:41 Hapahauli wrote: Re: Mayor - my mayoral preference would be Vivax or Rayn if I could confidently read them as town. I still desire to absolve myself of mayoral responsibility. In general, we should be voting for someone who 1) is valuable to the town if alive, and 2) has a reasonable chance of getting shot on N1. Slam does not fit category 2, even if he looks super town. Even if Grack starts looking more town, he also does not fit category 2. Of the players so far, I think Trfel fits both categories the best. ##Vote Trfel .... What? So Hapa has just ridden this rather than develop better reads on either Vivax or Rayn? | ||
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Tictock
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Vivax/Hapa | ||
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On November 26 2020 04:04 Vivax wrote: Ticktock, I somehow got the feeling you didn't really bother to think much about who's scum. Might be cause you post a yolo scum team that is really off from what's more likely, and vote a mayor who's campaigning to maybe lynch you and maybe lynch FF who's also voting for him. Are you and FF pretending to be kamikaze town ? Don't really see the motivation for either of you to do that. Ok, you keep posting that stream of thought. I didn't actually pick your name out of a hat, I briefly went through your filter and noticed you mentioned Hapa a decent bit, talked to him, but never say you make a read on him. Using my working theory about Hapa being mafia, this tracks super well for how scum buddies tend to act in thread. I didn't go back and double check, but I think you fall in the same range in Hapa's filter. Bonus WIFOM: Hapa stated he prefers "Vivax or Rayn" to be mayor but don't remember him addressing you further. So there. My totally Yolo, yet feels pretty good, scum case on Vivax/Hapa Is this post intended to convince everyone? Not really no... It's for my own enjoyment if I turn out to be right. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 26 2020 04:05 Trfel wrote: Yeah, I can get behind that. The main reason I would prefer lynching Fecalfeast to Grackaroni is that if Fecalfeast continues to play in this manner, I'm not sure he will be any easier to read in the future. I have higher hopes for Grackaroni to make his play more clear. Outside of that though I guess Grackaroni seems to have a higher chance of flipping mafia. I will submit Grackaroni as the lynch in case I end up being elected. If you do get elected plz kill FF over Grack. FF is unlikely to suddenly start playing more, Grack is probably readable after enough time | ||
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Tictock
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On November 26 2020 04:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: I dont see it that way at all. As FF it's literally the best play for mafia to vote for me for mayor because some dumbass will always go "ohh why is he doing that when i want to kill him". As town you never want to vote for the person who wants to kill you because that ends up 100% in town lynch. Trfel had at the time 4-5 options for his lynch, i had only two and i openly stated i prefer FF over TT. Same goes to TT, but with less "merit". I don't honestly expect you to kill me as mayor if I'm being honest. In the event you do I laugh and go back to WoW. So this was a non-factor in me considering who to vote mayor. I just included it in my post for lulz | ||
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Tictock
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His filter is pretty meh, and this post feels odd On November 26 2020 02:54 Grackaroni wrote: The thread seems to be divided into two camps atm. There's a Rayn camp where Rayn townreads Jock/Slam/Vivax/Slam/Me with lot of people in that group townreading or more or less trusting each other. Then there's a Trfel camp with Trfel having Rayn as his primary suspect and Hapa/ShoCkeyy voting Trfel mainly I believe to try to get rid of me. Obviously I'd rather we consolidate on anyone outside of Trfel for Mayor and hope that Rayn's grasp on the game so far is good. (I think it is) | ||
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Tictock
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Need to reread a couple things later though. | ||
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On November 26 2020 04:51 Alakaslam wrote: U wot m8 kill grack before TT! I mean, Hapa argument holds water but really I don’t see the whole town clamoring for anyone. Lynch who you want. I would have TT but it’s up to you. Do you really think I am mafia after the last game? | ||
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Tictock
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On November 26 2020 04:53 Trfel wrote: How about Grackaroni just not having reads this game? Until three hours ago, anyway. Mayoral campaign aside. He's been here and he hasn't been really contributing much, especially before three hours ago. Last game I was scum and Grack was town, I dont really recall him doing much. I don't think this is a great metric | ||
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Tictock
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On November 26 2020 04:56 Alakaslam wrote: Who else? It’s basically PoE because you said so little until now. And now... is like the scummiest time to become active with mostly salvation as your apparent goal am I wrong? I was just wondering if you had a real "oh yea this is his mafia play" read on me or if it was a low-hanging fruit thing | ||
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Tictock
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On November 26 2020 04:56 Alakaslam wrote: If he’s mafia he will just pardon himself. Waste of lynch. Fairly sure it doesn't work like that, but I doubt Trfel is mafia | ||
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Tictock
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Also he wasn't mafia so I was right too! | ||
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Tictock
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A bit salty though, I was hoping to roll 3P | ||
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Tictock
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The crowd nodded along. I knew that somewhere among those sheep was the key to my case. I'll remember this | ||
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Tictock
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On November 26 2020 05:07 Trfel wrote: That's good, right? I think so? He would have stolen a player, and then had 1 KP... Did town need to eliminate him to win? I guess it's a moot point but just curious Anyway I have a meeting soon but I'll be around later. Survivor was the only 3P to be able to win with town. | ||
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Tictock
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Seems like he is just saying neither was totally wrong since he flipped neither town nor scum To mafia Gracks flip would have been a nice bonus as they just thought they were getting a mislynch. | ||
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Tictock
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I am interested in the Jock stuff as he is the person I most forget is in this game (actually he might be tied with Sho). Mildly worried about the potential of mafia playing well and us slackers are in fact town but that is just a bit of fear and paranoia. Part of this is from the shot on Slam, but I think for now I will just assume he was a blue snipe | ||
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Tictock
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However the same could be said of multiple people. I don't really see mafia switching a vote last min or calling to make Grack Pardoner so the role dies either, but that's kinda wifom. Lastly, I think a Vivax/Jock team is unlikely given some of vivax's posts on Jock. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 27 2020 08:55 Trfel wrote: Does this feel weird to anyone else? Tictock was scumreading Fecalfeast and townreading Grackaroni. On one hand, I could see Tictock trying to word his argument in a way that's persuasive to me, but on the other hand, shouldn't he be restating his reasons to scumread Fecalfeast and townread Grackaroni? And this, which Tictock threw in 11 minutes to end of day. If he didn't want Grackaroni to die (by the way, he just said a few posts previously that he was okay with Grackaroni dying), shouldn't he prefer killing Fecalfeast to ShoCkeyy? Given that he actually has reasons to suspect Fecalfeast and ShoCkeyy is just a lurker? Both of these basically come down to me trying to motivate a kill I was comfortable with in a situation where it was ultimately out of my control. I find myself thinking FF might be town here as well, not really sure when that started. | ||
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Tictock
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That...seems reasonable actually. Glanced through Sho's filter and dont get much from it. It seems like he might just be following thread sentiment with his reads but I am not really able to go check right now. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 27 2020 07:00 Hapahauli wrote: The point is that in addition to having this attitude of "lets lynch any one of these people", he also takes opposition to town's attempt to consolidate on the Grack lynch. It is the combination of these two things that is anti-town, because he shits on Town's one effort to consolidate while providing no alternative. It's purely criticism as opposed to anything constructive. This bit reads as a bit disengenuis. Vivax's post was trying to tell Rayn (who was not his pick as Mayor) who he wanted to see flip. | ||
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Tictock
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I don't see why a mafia!vivax would push away from a mislynch on someone he has only stated is a null read. Going to look into the Jock stuff tomorrow. | ||
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Tictock
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Had some minor shit come up this morning but I should have some time today. I will not be around for deadline tomorrow however. Oh and before I filter, I don't find Rayns case on FF very compelling either. Ff is low effort but his tone has been reading as town to me. @Rayn Do you think FF has a better chance at being mafia then Sho? | ||
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Tictock
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I kinda even want to say Rayn is mafia for saying Jock is town. There is like no reason.the Ryan I know could say the filter I just read is a confident town read. Jock is like the definition of blendy sidelining. I see at most 2 interesting posts (not a simple question or fluff) and one of those is softing a scum read on Trfel for changing his mind... ##Vote: Jock | ||
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Tictock
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I'm don't quite get the same "blendy lurker" vibe as I get from Jock. It is more a low effort town vibe. Best thing I can point to is the post FF pinged out where Jock made a list post of mayor lynch prefferrance. Which I agree with FF is a type of "helpful but not real content" post mafia like to make. | ||
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Honestly I am not totally sure how to read them well. I have only played with Hapa once and I was mafia so him not feeling as obviuse town as I was him that game is not a good basis for a read. Still that feeling and not really liking/agreeing with his reads this game has me a little sus. As for Rayn I have been able to see where Rayn is coming from in general and have agreed with his reads, so is most likely town. However his play does feel in line with his mafia play in that he doesn't have as clear a focus as I tend to see him have and was willing to do what other people wanted over his own prefferrance as Mayor. None of that is really sufficient to call him scum but it does keep me from having a lock town read on him. Right now I do not understand where Rayn is coming from and disagree with his reads but am wanting to see his responses before I go much further on that. And just for a disclaimer: None of this effects the current state of the game where we should be lynching Jock kus he is super likely to flip mafia. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 10:31 Trfel wrote: Sorry I'm a bit distracted, started playing Magic with some guys, I'll be around here still though. Nice! I recently introduced my roommates to MtG and they have proceeded to spend thousands of dollars on it. Was cool to see the enthusiasm but I sorta created a monster. We are starting to move into EDH so I expect this problem to get worse before it gets better. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 14:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: I just got home but i have really no care level to talk with mafia. This is a very mafia!Rayn post. Hasn't shared much of a reason to backup his recent Trfel scum read, moved from Vivax to FF with little reason (also splitting the votes further on a majority lynch) also the Vivax stuff kinda just evaporated. Even said D1 he doesnt have the clearest scum reads. So, yea this post is bullshit as I don't believe Rayn has this strong of a scum read on anyone this game. Seems like an excuse. | ||
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Tictock
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No offense man, if you are beat after a long day I am not going to sit here antagonizing you more than this. Go rest, I am clearly not opposed to proritizing this game last. I will still call out shit and go off on whatever theory I dam well please. Besides, you have to admit that was a bad post. Whenever you have given proper attention to your real life needs Rayn and feel you have time for the game I would love to hear why you town read Jock. I for one am 100% for lynching Jock, and given I won't be around for deadline I would like for town to be consolidating more. | ||
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Tictock
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I mean like even i understand what jock's question for me was about and it is actually smart (if i was dumb mafia). If you cannot grasp it, then i am sorry you will probably continue on your path and shit the bed anyways.... This is the reason why people dislike playing with you rayn | ||
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And about the end of your post, please don't misconstrue me calling out one bullshit post by you as me saying all your posts are bullshit. Now, I have made a bunch of posts about my read on Vivax. My FF read is weak, but I don't see why he stands out of Jock/Sho/FF. To me Jock is the clear blendy mafia here. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 16:13 raynpelikoneet wrote: Then why dont they ask me? Jock thinks at this point that i am being too "soft" for hapa. I said i think hapa might be scum, he asks if it's a scumread or not and i answer. He doesnt push it further because my answer is okay for him. Had i said "no not really do i think it looks bad for hapa" then he had called me mafia. That's that. No I was referring to the way you act like you hold some secret that makes you smart and if we don't we aren't. Then you imply I will shit the bed. I have asked you multiple times for your town read on Jock as well as other things but you are putting on a show right now. | ||
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What is the definition of an incredibly weak meta read? | ||
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Tictock
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That is on the level of "he only posts this seal as town" Sure, maybe it is true. But there is absolutely no reason why it can't be wrong. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 16:42 raynpelikoneet wrote: idk, when anyone tries to meta rayn? My bad, I thought I was playing jeopardy there. Your post I quoted there was the answer | ||
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Tictock
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Unfortunately this puts us at something of an impass as my own poorly formed town reads on Vivax/FF (actually I am fairly confident on Vivax but FF is more tonal) leaves me looking at Jock. | ||
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Tictock
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I only get that you see him being hypocritical, which to me is standard human behavior so I am gonna need a bit more | ||
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Have to leave for work in 5 hours >.< | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 16:56 raynpelikoneet wrote: Yes i think he is being hypocritical. Let me ask you, do you think you are being hypocritical when you play mafia? In sense of gameplay and what you believe makes people mafia? I have definitely found myself focusing on lurkers while lurking themselves. I generally hate meta reads but I have to admit I use them myself to some extent. So yes. I also think that when people change their thinking or are reacting to an immediate situation they often behave in ways that contradict what they say | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 17:04 raynpelikoneet wrote: Okay whenever you get to this think about it: Trfel wants to lynch jock. He was also okay with lynching Vivax and didnt really care if FF dies. There has to be at least one town there. Unless you want to believe there is 3 mafia. Do you think Trfel ever actually tried to discern which is the push that is incorrect? I think he has very clearly preffered to lynch Jock. I can absolutely understand having a scum read as well as a handful of people you just don't know how to read and are thus ok with multiple targets. Like it's probably not a 1 to 1 comparison but you had a similar position with your mayor submission last phase right? I definitely recall you asking for input as you weren't too locked in on one person How is this situation different? | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 17:12 raynpelikoneet wrote: Of course, i think people in this game (you too -- actually towards me) have been using this as a scapegoat to call someone mafia. That's why i asked you if it bothers you that you call me mafia for having reads and other people call me mafia for NOT having reads. It just doesnt mean anything lol ^^ For as much as you play mafia it always amazes me that you expect people to behave rationally. I understand what you mean though. I thought I had more to add here but I think sleep is finally beconing as I am loosing focus | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 09:13 Trfel wrote: Noooo, talk to me.....  @ShoCkeyy, why are you changing votes (assuming you are)? I know you said you can see both Jockmcplop and Vivax as mafia, but it's hard for me to see you actually caring about who gets lynched, you just seem to be willing to vote for whoever thread sentiment is against. On one hand it's good to be willing to consolidate in a majority lynch game, on the other hand it seems suspect to not even care... Honestly if this is what you are talking about, then.... No, Trfel is just over wording a question about Sho changing votes. I think the wishy-washy language is what is triggering you here. I don't think he is trying to imply Sho is scum he just doesn't understand what Sho is thinking | ||
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Tictock
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On November 28 2020 17:26 raynpelikoneet wrote: I know he is preferred in lynching jock. However he is "giving chances" on Vivax and FF. I know that's fine, but there comes in the live as you preach. shockeyy somehow is not allowed to consolidate, or at least it is questionable. I find it weird from someone who would root for rayn in case i switched my vote now (100% sure ).I dont think mayor shit is comparable. I kinda wish i executed FF instead of Grack even if it was worse for town because i think i would have more say with lynching mafia. Now i feel useless and i think i have done most of what i can to not lynch town. :/ This is definitely different than mayoral lynch if that's what you are talking about. As for the mayor thing, I just mean in terms of having scum reads not voting mechanics. This is also why I was pushing to kill FF D1 and made that post about Grack being more readable as the game goes on whereas I suspect FF will always be a question mark. However we are where we are now. | ||
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Tictock
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We do need to consolidate though due to majority. I won't be able to post or read much but I can change my vote if so have to. | ||
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Tictock
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I talked about my Hapa read with you already Trfel? Plus the roleblock thing seemed legit, even though you could argue Hapa was using that as cover to dodge the game. It's a weird time though and we just lynched a townie who had disappeared so prob not a good metric. | ||
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Tictock
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I thought his second entry to the thread was more compelling as it suggested he had forgotten he'd already made a few posts. Now I am not so sure why that made more sense to come from from mafia but that is where my head was at then. FF seems like a good lynch tomorrow, though since we will be in mylo we should try and make the best of the time we have. I might put in some time this phase but will probably try at Day. | ||
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On November 25 2020 16:41 Alakaslam wrote: Sadly I think I’m a classic case of Zenigata though, as much as everyone wants to be Lupin Figured I'd take a quick look at slams filter just kus I thought him being killed N1 might have been a bit revealing but I have to assume this post tipped off mafia that he was cop. Otherwise I am the only person implicated by this kill, by way of me being Slams major scum read. | ||
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On November 29 2020 17:59 ShoCkeyy wrote: TT let’s go back to rayns Trfel is mafia. Going back to Slams posts, this one stood out the most to me, since that’s what happened if Trfel is mafia. It seemed like forewarning too. I’m willing to train the though of Trfel being mafia and the pardoner I am willing to entertain Trfel being mafia, but I don't see how pardoner matters really. Kus if he uses it it's a scum claim. Should be 4v2 tomorrow. If the lynch is prevented it's 3v2 d4 and clear who to lynch Even if he were to wait and allow his partner to be lynched then it's 3v1 D4 and pardoning his own lynch would also not win a scum!Trfel the win. | ||
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Rayn is right about his "who voted Jock and why post" as it is very much so FF using Jock flipping town to push people as mafia which is ironic when FF was the first on the wagon. | ||
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In other news Sho is a weird kill... not totally sure what I make of it yet but seems like that points to Hapa being scum to me. I say that as I feel like a Sho kill indicates mafia was blue hunting. As I assume we should have All claims happen today, I am VT. And I will be decently happy if my yolo scum team D1 is correct. | ||
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Tictock
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On November 30 2020 07:59 Hapahauli wrote: Ooooh interesting. I am a Mad Hatter. My intent in playing as I did (not running for mayor) was to have a chance of using my role. I targeted Vivax N1 (roleblocked) on the basis of my scumread. I targeted Shockeyy N2, in that if I was killed, I would rather leave town in a position where they had to worry about one less lurker. Plus, if I take someone down with me (even if my read is incorrect), it's still LYLO as opposed to MYLO. I do not think Trfel's claim necessarily makes him mafia. I'm also not sure why someone else being roleblocked tonight would confirm "one of me or Trfel" as mafia. More thoughts when I'm home tonight. Why would mafia leave you alive after you claimed? Like if I try and look at a world where both of you are town, then mafia is going "why did this guy claim rb" D2 and yet somehow they decide to RB Trfel and Shoot Sho last Night? That makes no sense | ||
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Tictock
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On November 30 2020 08:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: why does mafia always know there is a jailkeeper?can you explain it to me as i am dumb and 5y? The only situation I can see where Trfels pov here is wrong is that both he and mafia targeted Hapa. What would be really interesting here is if Hapa is mafia RB and got blocked then used his RB on Trfel last night. If Trfel is mafiaRB here I again don't get why Hapa wasn't the kill last night after claiming he was RBd. | ||
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On November 30 2020 08:30 Hapahauli wrote: Trfel - talk to me about this "you or me" thing. Why does one of us have to be mafia? Obviously throw out everything I'm about to say if we have another blue claim, but 2 mafia + Evil Mastermind is a fucking disaster for town without a lot of blue-role backup. In my view, you're confirmed town with FF. You are not considering Mayor/Pardoner/Bodyguard as town favored balancing. I don't know much about balancing with 3P but EM isn't that strong of a role that I think town needs 3 blues. Also giving town a hatter to compensate 3P KP doesn't make much sense to me as that seems like it would make the game even harder for town. | ||
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On November 30 2020 08:43 raynpelikoneet wrote: What is your yolo scum tem D1? Vivax/Hapa, I could dig it up iny filter but it's there. | ||
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On November 30 2020 09:08 Hapahauli wrote: This is a fair point. Bodyguard is a +town thing. Incorrect. Think about this: EM can recruit the fucking mayor. I didn't see any rule against that. Do you realize how insane that is? Also incorrect. Consider the situation that we are in: me killing a fellow townie (in the event that I got shot) does not at all change how many mislynches the town is allowed. I am considering a position where where did not kill EM at the start and there is suppendly 4 deaths in a night. That is not balanced. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Voted Hapa I have a really hard time seeing Rayn being mafia in this and Trfel would be playing his heart out if he is mafia here, and I don't think he would have to try this hard if that were so. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Solid. Really doesn't make sense for mafia to leave an UnCC'd blue alive and not RB him. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 09:24 raynpelikoneet wrote: hapa said he targeted vivax N1 and then said why would mafia kill me if i am gonna take mafia with me, he was roleblocked as per his words N1 so there is no vivax anyways. Right, even if as Hapa says that mafia figured he was a Hatter then they would know he hasn't placed any bombs so why not kill the unCC'd blue. I assumed you were responding to my post. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 09:37 Hapahauli wrote: If mafia chooses not to roleblock me on N2, they are not going to shoot me, because from their perspective, I am still fairly likely (given my filter) to bomb Vivax, who I believe is mafia. So you agree that mafia should have RB and Killed you? | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Then who did the RB on Trfel? | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 09:46 Hapahauli wrote: Mafia know that I was JK'd N1. Would they risk shooting me knowing that I am a target for protection? I think not, but you be the judge. Humm I suppose this is a fair point. Though it means it was a really bad idea for you to make it so obviuse what your role was. Which is actually your pov here, I never would have taken that post you quoted as a soft claim for hatter . | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 10:22 Hapahauli wrote: Look. We're not doing this stupid "binary lynch" stuff. There is enough of a chance that we're TvT that I'm not going down that road. I'm here, willing and able to talk. We can have a productive conversation, but please, please consolidate your thoughts. This will not be productive if I'm answering a string of random one-lined thoughts and questions. Ok who is mafia? | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
So I suppose I would have to accept a Rayn/Vivax world | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 10:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: I am interested in how you got to this? This was to Hapa, and what I understand his PoV of the game being | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 11:02 Hapahauli wrote: I've already shit up this thread enough over the past few hours. Not committing to any reads until I have had a chance to deep dive the thread, especially the days that I missed. Otherwise, I keep ping-ponging back and forth on how suspicious I am of Rayn and it isn't productive. Is that a fairly accurate view though? Partially just making sure I understand your PoV, and partially as I feel that in your position you have assumed Trfel is town a bit easily when it should be possible for him to be mafiaRB. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
A big part of this stems from Hapa not taking a stance on who he thinks is mafia today. Despite several times saying he thinks Vivax is scum, and a big chunk of his arguments as to why Mafia would not kill him RELIES on Vivax being mafia. Hapa did post some reads after his claim, which he even reaffirms later to rayn. In both he says he is down to Rayn/Vivax/Myself but states Vivax is his most confident scum read. Bit of a tangent, but still in order of Hapa's filter, Hapa tells us he did not run for mayor because he wanted to use his role, but he also points out that he made it clear the only role he would not run for mayor with is Hatter. Mind you he feels he outed his role so clearly that Mafia should know that's his role. Anyone else see the irony in this? + Show Spoiler [quotes] + On November 30 2020 08:50 Hapahauli wrote: In that whole post, I'm saying that running for mayor is good with CPR Doc, JK, and Investigative role. So if I'm not running for mayor, that leaves two things: Mad Hatter or Vigi. On November 30 2020 08:53 Hapahauli wrote: And running for mayor is pretty insane with vigi, since I could shoot someone and instantly confirm the mayor role as town. Mad Hatter is the only damn role in the game that I wouldn't run for mayor, because I basically can't use the fucking role if I'm mayor. All this brings me to this On November 30 2020 09:10 Hapahauli wrote: I think it was very easily deduced from my posting about what blue role I was. As for why I wasn't killed, two plausible reasons: 1) I basically afk'd for 3 days. 2) Why would you shoot the Mad Hatter if you believe he is likely to deliver KP on mafia (i.e. Vivax)? Now I do actually find the notion that if mafia know Hapa was Jailed they might not shoot him fearing another jail. However, this was Hapa's first thoughts as to why he would be killed and I think it's really important because of his 2nd point. Again we get the sense that from Hapa's pov Vivax HAS to be mafia. Whats even more interesting? On November 29 2020 04:08 Hapahauli wrote: Brief skim. Vivax's attitudes towards wanting to get lurkers before active players generally makes sense. I think his recent posting is much better. I've discussed some of my thoughts on Jocks filter previously. He hasn't posted, and that makes him as good of a lynch as any... even if the lack of resistance bothers me. Frankly, I'm pretty lost this game. I should have more time to play after the holiday weekend ends if I am alive. Hopefully getting rid of an inactive player will help thin the weeds or flip a red. This was Hapa's last post before he claimed Hatter. Put yourself in mafia's shoes, does this make you feel certain that a clearly HatterHapa is bombing Vivax so you shouldn't kill him? No more quotes as this post is big enough but when I asked Hapa what his reads were at the end of the lengthy discussion he claims he has no strong reads and seems to keep wanting to focus on Rayn. Now to me it seems like Hapa clearly thinks Vivax is scum, but he has yet to actually push Vivax or put down a vote on him. Which matches a lot with the way that he backed off his Vivax read (even mildly calling him town) when voting Jock don't you think? This all reads to me like Hapa KNOWS Vivax is mafia, but is reluctant to actually lynch him today if he doesn't have to. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 28 2020 19:15 Vivax wrote: My team would be Hapa + Jock atm. I just don't see how Hapa who is super diligent 'mistakenly' claims a roleblock and blurts out he's blue, and neither do I see how he wouldn't think Jock is mafia. Plus he manufactures very convoluted reasoning in cases against me that could be said in a much simpler way. That's because he's prioritizing the convincing over the validity of his case. On November 28 2020 21:41 Vivax wrote: Rayn's point on Trfel is essentially that he's hypocritical with how peeps are throwing votes around on available wagons. As for FF it's that he's one of those people. Overall posting seems townie. I still think Hapa started off the day just like a mafia softing blue would. He goes whoops on his RB claim and doesn't have to reveal the role. But that obviously doesn't make him scum by itself. It just seems unusually sloppy for him. What imo makes him possible scum is (aside from various misreps, thinking of him calling my posting useless) his preference for active players in the lynches. And right now he should be thinking I'm bussing Jock and maybe deliver a scenario where that's possible. He seems otherwise content to let FF and Shockeyy remain in the null area, while he should be having a better read on rayn by now. Really good mafia pushes vocal players first and finishes the job in a finale of coinflips. Granted, I can't find anything in his filter that makes me go HA. It's just that I get a feeling of dishonesty from his preferences and the way he goes about me. On November 29 2020 01:38 Vivax wrote: Certainly would help if Jock came back and posted something. I'm a bit worried that he's the only viable wagon. But I'll vote for him in the meantime. Anyone else around? This post is also giving me pause. Because on the followup Hapa avoids to answer Jocks question where he got the joke candidacy from. I don't know if it has been adressed afterwards though. On November 29 2020 23:08 Vivax wrote: You had multiple posts going on. Which ones in particular do you mean and I don't get what you mean with the last sentence? My reads are far from solid after the Jock flip. I have little conviction on any read besides on you. I think I'd be ok with Fefe as town as well purely tone wise without the semi-martyr-y posts which read too smug for my taste. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 26 2020 03:44 Tictock wrote: Yolo scumteam Vivax/Hapa Ahh good times | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I made the yolo team here in the game. I think it is relevant to read the next few posts after mine as I interacted with Vivax and explained where that team came from. Hapa choose not to include that post. This post was in response to Hapa's case on Vivax On November 27 2020 14:20 Tictock wrote: This bit reads as a bit disengenuis. Vivax's post was trying to tell Rayn (who was not his pick as Mayor) who he wanted to see flip. I also find it a bit funny he calls this... That looked like a decent catch on Vivax there Trfel but I can't quite substantiate it from Vivax's filter (I see him going back and forth on Jock and even says he'd shoot FF or Sho). Please feel free to show me what I missed. attacking Trfel's read. Not caught up yet, and more or less just waking up so might have to grab coffee and food soon. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I can't help but notice the explosion between Hapa and Vivax AFTER I post an association case on them. In fairness this is why I waited when I saw Hapa not taking stands after Rayn/Hapa/My discussion about his claim to see if he would go somewhere as well as see if Vivax was going to post. Now I feel like there is a bunch of bullshit I need to sift through | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 04:57 Trfel wrote: Claim aside, I guess I'm curious about your characterization of my play. You described my mafia play as "passive," can I ask what that means to you? Because I think my mafia play is more active, more aggressive than my town play. I don't know what to do when I have no read to push, so I'm always pushing something. Over-aggression is a problem with my scum play I need to fix. I suppose maybe it doesn't mean a ton if this is a perception you had from before the game, it just feels weird that your strong townread of me seems based off of a faulty scum meta? Or am I missing something? Haven't you had some weak scum games lately? Part of why I am solid on you being town here is that while I know you can pull off solid effort and posting as mafia you are far too unsure and willing to reconsider here. Though I also think the way you were acting prior to your claim felt very genuine. Not sure how to articulate it well. Rayn is also clearly town here to be from how invested and "honed in" he is on Hapa when his claim doesn't make sense. FF is also confirmed town at this point. This game is pretty solved from my PoV. Calling me mafia is seeming to be the get out of the noose card for mafia right now. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 05:11 Trfel wrote: I have a few thoughts but nothing more to really add on top of what's already been said. Of course this changes if people suspect me, but given that no one seems to currently, it feels more valuable for me to watch what happens undisturbed. With that said: ##Vote: Hapahauli I can certainly understand why Hapahauli, as a claimed blue, wouldn't be killed. But it's so hard for me to understand why he wouldn't be roleblocked. And while I'm uncertain, I doubt the presence of three blues in the setup, especially given the bodyguard mechanic. With that said: would someone be willing to explain to me what raynpelikoneet is saying about Hapahauli the past few pages that's so condemning? As I said on the last page, it seems to come down to role mechanics that I thought worked differently, but I seem to be horribly misreading. He is kinda on the same boat as me. Hapa claimed mafia would not kill him because they might set off his bomb on mafia!Vivax. Rayn was rightfully hounding down that that makes no sense when they knew he didn't have a bomb down and could RB and kill him without any worry. The only mechanical kink in that theory is that mafia knowing you are JK might be trying to play around protection. However this was still Happa's initial suggestion for why mafia would not kill him. While I find that all telling, I think looking at Happa's overall play it is clear his thinking is fualty if he was in fact Hatter. First he contradicts himself saying he didn't want mayor because getting shit let's hit use the role, but he later attempts to clearly breadcrum his role. I also think him using his blue claim as an excuse to drop off the game for awhile is telling. Then you can add in my point about his clearly having a strong scum read on Vivax at the start of day, they spends a few posts going "I don't know who is mafia, I keep flip flopping on Rayn" after several pages of defending his claim to me and rayn | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Much better to try and take a look at the player actions, behavior around their claim, and how they attempted to use their role. However I will note that Bodyguard is similar to named town role AND acts as protection for mayor. I could add on but again I do not think pure mechanics should decide this as it is ultimately speculative until postgame | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 06:01 Fecalfeast wrote: Arguing a claim based on game balance when we've already had a cult leader flip is not a good argument in my opinion and honestly hapa is making sense to me and his restraint from trying to take rayn down helps my opinion of him as well. We still have a day so for now I'm putting my vote on TT to see how it suits me As long as you remember that this is Majority lynch so we have to consolidate by EoD. I skipped over it but I saw Vivax posting some dangerous nonsense about a no lynch or a JK play saving the day. These are not good ideas to play around. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I did not see this in the OP. Assuming they have to shoot then if we lynch mafia Trfel has a chance to prevent KP and confirm mafia. I doubt I will move off Hapa/Vivax here, Vivax is the "safe" lynch since everyone seems to agree he should be mafia. I won't vote anyone else. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 08:38 Hapahauli wrote: If the game is solved from your perspective, you should be completely indifferent to killing me or Vivax. Was still catching up, this is correct. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 08:55 Hapahauli wrote: "I'm in the same boat as Trfel, who at one point voted Hapa for mechanic-related reasons"... ...but let's not overly focus on mechanics guys! That would be bad for town! I was saying Rayn is in the same boat as me, keep up with my past self! | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 09:11 Hapahauli wrote: It doesn't matter whether or not mafia can hold KP or not. Even if they can, the effect of mafia holding KP (assuming we lynch mafia today) is that town gets an extra lynch. i.e. assuming Vivax gets lynched today: N3 playerlist: - Rayn (Town according to TT perspective) - Trfel (JK according to TT perspective) - Hapa (Likely mafia according to TT perspective) - FF (Confirmed town) - TT If Trfel JK's me and I hold KP it is still optimal play for town to lynch me, since it would be 1 mafia v. 4 town on D4. Humm haven't thought through this angle I was more thinking the situation where Trfel JKs someone, mafia no shoots, and then used that to push whoever was JK'd. Of course all of this is somewhat moot if we do not lynch mafia. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 09:16 Hapahauli wrote: You quoted Trfel's post, not Rayn's. Keep up with yourself m8. Yes, Trfel's post asking about Rayns read .. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 09:18 Hapahauli wrote: You haven't thought anything too deeply through, have you? Yes and No I have clearly been catching up. I probably should have condensed my posts and not made a bunch of while reading reaction posts. Since talk between us is getting antagonistic I am going to stop directly responding. We seem to have resigned to live in world's where the other is mafia. I think I have made my overall position clear as well as tried to explain why I am thinking how I am. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Like does me moving a vote really prove that much? I am gunna sit on my hands in response to pressure right now till I make up my mind. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I don't see a problem with JK confirming someone as town though if a kill does go through. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 11:01 Trfel wrote: This is technically correct, but as Hapahauli was saying, if mafia chooses to no-kill, then town gains an extra mislynch. So it's the same result in the end. Unless you're saying mafia is allowed to store up their shots and use them all at once, but that's a really stupid mechanic that I've never actually seen in a game. Hapa was still talking about confirming mafia at the top of the page. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 13:29 raynpelikoneet wrote: From town perspective though; Lets say we lynch Vivax and he flips mafia. Trfel jails Hapa (or whoever) and the NK goes through. How is the game solved? Mechanically it would mean one of You or Me is mafia. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 10:28 Tictock wrote: Like I know you are down to a pool of Rayn/Vivax/Myself, assuming I read ok So I suppose I would have to accept a Rayn/Vivax world Humm, is this so crazy? It suppose it could explain some things. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I mean from my PoV... | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I thought Vivax had been the safe bet for most of the day but Hapa made me lose my shit by not pushing Vivax earlier. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Yep, or at least a moment of reconsidering. Because you now fall under the same thing I was scum reading Hapa for. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 14:44 raynpelikoneet wrote: Its okay, lets hear why i am mafia with Vivax. I am not getting into that, just saying Vivax should be the lynch here. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 01 2020 14:55 Trfel wrote: Can I ask why it's better to lynch Vivax than Hapahauli? I thought you were scumreading both equally? Yea but then Rayn fell into the same trap that had me pushing Hapa so much for. Which ironically was the same thing he is scum reading me for... But I did was doing the experiment first! All of which revolves around people not wanting to kill Vivax, thus WE KILL VIVAX! | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
GG, WP Rayn/Vivax Funny how Rayn has townread me all game until I suggest he could be mafia and want to lynch his buddie. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Also funny I got lynched for calling out the scum team >.< Yes that's an oversimplification, but still fairly true | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
Also, this was weirdly a a flavor clue that Ryan was mafia to me. I did not forget | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On November 30 2020 10:28 Tictock wrote: Like I know you are down to a pool of Rayn/Vivax/Myself, assuming I read ok So I suppose I would have to accept a Rayn/Vivax world Last thing I will pull up Hapa I was really hoping you would enguage me on this. I understand you were burnt out from being interrogated by mafia!Ryan but this was why I went hard on you because I felt as town this was our chance to work together. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 02 2020 09:55 Hapahauli wrote: Yeah mental state was not such that I could have avoided lynching you. I think. Which is ofc my fault. No worries, I was hyper focused to tunneled on you for awhile that last day. Rayn coming back and continuing the push on you over anything else was what finally got me to see the truth. However by then it was a bit too late and I did not have the energy to really push Rayn which was why I made that "not getting into this, we lynch Vivax" post. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 02 2020 12:18 Grackaroni wrote: It looks like Vivax conceded Vivax semi-conceded and DYH made the call that mafia was caught mechanically and made that endgame. Probably the right call when it was clear everyone was pretty ready for the game to be over. Bit unfortunate that the RB thing was the nail in the coffin, and I will admit I would not have intuited that a JK being RB'd would still stop KP. Ultimately I hope nobody is too upset by this result as this was one of the more nail-biting and interesting mafia games I have been in. I don't think anyone played a bad or even poot game, really seemed like everyone brought the A game. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 02 2020 12:29 Grackaroni wrote: I didn't read but I know FF got confirmed by being the bodyguard and I guess people believed the jailor claim. That's just an unfortunate outcome for scum at the end having killed off everybody unable to confirm themselves. (me//TT/Jock/ShoCkkey had no claims). I guess their best chance may have been to make some sort of counterclaim against Trfel. Given how claims happened idk about CC, and honestly Rayn/Vivax still won the claim day (and more or less the game, minus the technicality) by getting town to lynch me while I was saying "Rayn/Vivax are scum" lol. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
On December 02 2020 12:51 CopCake wrote: Tfrel blocked rayn Vivax blocked Tfrel Rayn had the night kill So it seems that only the saving part of Tfrel action gets blocked and not the block. Correct. It is not intuitive but Greymist had explained that both RBs happen at the same time and thus RB is not prevented (but JK's ability to save is stopped). | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I also hope Rayn doesn't stay too mad about the technicality as the game as a whole is still a solid testimony. Since I see him being so results and Win oriented I suspect that will not work for him. I can only say that sometimes you should choose to focus on the positives and try to let shit outside of your control roll off your back kus the burden is never worth carrying that shit. | ||
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Tictock
United States6052 Posts
I believe in most setups mafia RB takes priority and thus the kill would have gone through. Basically the logic scum used in their QT is how most games will function, where their kill goes through and it's a mafia win | ||
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