[N]A Mostly Normal Game of Mafia - Page 55

On December 01 2020 04:57 Trfel wrote:
Claim aside, I guess I'm curious about your characterization of my play. You described my mafia play as "passive," can I ask what that means to you? Because I think my mafia play is more active, more aggressive than my town play. I don't know what to do when I have no read to push, so I'm always pushing something. Over-aggression is a problem with my scum play I need to fix.

I suppose maybe it doesn't mean a ton if this is a perception you had from before the game, it just feels weird that your strong townread of me seems based off of a faulty scum meta? Or am I missing something?

On December 01 2020 05:11 Trfel wrote:
I have a few thoughts but nothing more to really add on top of what's already been said. Of course this changes if people suspect me, but given that no one seems to currently, it feels more valuable for me to watch what happens undisturbed.

With that said:
##Vote: Hapahauli

I can certainly understand why Hapahauli, as a claimed blue, wouldn't be killed. But it's so hard for me to understand why he wouldn't be roleblocked. And while I'm uncertain, I doubt the presence of three blues in the setup, especially given the bodyguard mechanic.

With that said: would someone be willing to explain to me what raynpelikoneet is saying about Hapahauli the past few pages that's so condemning? As I said on the last page, it seems to come down to role mechanics that I thought worked differently, but I seem to be horribly misreading.

On December 01 2020 08:41 Tictock wrote:


He is kinda on the same boat as me.

Hapa claimed mafia would not kill him because they might set off his bomb on mafia!Vivax. Rayn was rightfully hounding down that that makes no sense when they knew he didn't have a bomb down and could RB and kill him without any worry.

The only mechanical kink in that theory is that mafia knowing you are JK might be trying to play around protection. However this was still Happa's initial suggestion for why mafia would not kill him.

While I find that all telling, I think looking at Happa's overall play it is clear his thinking is fualty if he was in fact Hatter. First he contradicts himself saying he didn't want mayor because getting shit let's hit use the role, but he later attempts to clearly breadcrum his role. I also think him using his blue claim as an excuse to drop off the game for awhile is telling.

Then you can add in my point about his clearly having a strong scum read on Vivax at the start of day, they spends a few posts going "I don't know who is mafia, I keep flip flopping on Rayn" after several pages of defending his claim to me and rayn

On December 01 2020 08:48 Tictock wrote:
Let's not get too hung up on mechanics and setup. It is a bit too much WIFOM to be useful in a theoritical sense.

Much better to try and take a look at the player actions, behavior around their claim, and how they attempted to use their role.

However I will note that Bodyguard is similar to named town role AND acts as protection for mayor. I could add on but again I do not think pure mechanics should decide this as it is ultimately speculative until postgame

On December 01 2020 08:35 Hapahauli wrote:
Let's make a deal TT.

I think Vivax is mafia. You think Vivax is mafia.

Let's kill Vivax. After that, since we both think that Trfel is the JK, he can simply block me tomorrow and "confirm me as mafia". Sounds good?

Game solved and over from your perspective. No need to argue or do anything.

On December 01 2020 06:01 Fecalfeast wrote:
Arguing a claim based on game balance when we've already had a cult leader flip is not a good argument in my opinion and honestly hapa is making sense to me and his restraint from trying to take rayn down helps my opinion of him as well.

We still have a day so for now I'm putting my vote on TT to see how it suits me

On December 01 2020 09:05 Tictock wrote:
Are Mafia able to hold their KP?

I did not see this in the OP. Assuming they have to shoot then if we lynch mafia Trfel has a chance to prevent KP and confirm mafia.

I doubt I will move off Hapa/Vivax here, Vivax is the "safe" lynch since everyone seems to agree he should be mafia.

I won't vote anyone else.

On December 01 2020 08:38 Hapahauli wrote:
If the game is solved from your perspective, you should be completely indifferent to killing me or Vivax.

On December 01 2020 08:55 Hapahauli wrote:


"I'm in the same boat as Trfel, who at one point voted Hapa for mechanic-related reasons"...



...but let's not overly focus on mechanics guys! That would be bad for town!

On December 01 2020 09:13 Tictock wrote:


I was saying Rayn is in the same boat as me, keep up with my past self!

On December 01 2020 09:11 Hapahauli wrote:


It doesn't matter whether or not mafia can hold KP or not.

Even if they can, the effect of mafia holding KP (assuming we lynch mafia today) is that town gets an extra lynch.

i.e. assuming Vivax gets lynched today:

N3 playerlist:
- Rayn (Town according to TT perspective)
- Trfel (JK according to TT perspective)
- Hapa (Likely mafia according to TT perspective)
- FF (Confirmed town)
- TT

If Trfel JK's me and I hold KP it is still optimal play for town to lynch me, since it would be 1 mafia v. 4 town on D4.

On December 01 2020 09:16 Hapahauli wrote:


You quoted Trfel's post, not Rayn's. Keep up with yourself m8.