EPT[M][N]MiniFeast 1.5
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So, thats where I'm going today | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:10 raynpelikoneet wrote: okay what's gonna happen if eversince is mafia? I don't do associatives pre-flip | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:20 raynpelikoneet wrote: Eywa you really need to explain yourself. Right now i want to lynch the person you do but i am like this fucking close to changing my mind because i have no idea why you have the reads you do and it doesn't even make much sense to me. So please if you're town can you explain your reads? Mainly ES, and Trfel. This is false. You already changed your mind, the voting thread demonstrates this. | ||
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I already saw that post, I maintain my point is valid. There's a lot of information around Eversince that has not yet translated into associative reads. | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:25 raynpelikoneet wrote: like WHY ARE YOU SO FUCKING DENSE? do you think it's funny or what the fuck? My focus right now is on reading people, not being a conveyor of information to you and everyone else in the game. I'm not solid enough on my reads for people on this site yet, so it's a work in progress, but I think Eversince is the correct lynch today and I have a current list of untouchables. I'm really not sure what else I'm supposed to provide or how it'll be valuable. | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:32 raynpelikoneet wrote: Why did you say "if eversince flips mafia then this game is just super easy going forward"? You must have a reason for it and afaik it's the reasoning you are voting for her (as you haven't said anythig else on why she is mafia). So what am i supposed to think if not that? Not my reason for voting... My reason for voting is that I think ES is mafia. | ||
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The biggest reason is her role PM. Probably RNG. | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:47 Eversince wrote: You know I didn't like the way you come in, throw the easy vote on me. I had this same problem with Conv already this game. Now you want to say I'm just a RNG right after you say I'm mafia? I'm waffling again. No, my read on you is mafia. You obtained that role via RNG. I apologize for the confusion. | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:48 Eywa- wrote: No, my read on you is mafia. You obtained that role via RNG. I apologize for the confusion. Ugh.. Why am I engaging caught scum? Bad Eywa- | ||
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On July 03 2019 03:03 Jockmcplop wrote: I don't think you're mafia ES, not yet anyway. All this stuff coming from rayn, hf and conversion seems kinda weak to be honest, even though there's alot of it. I think Rayn clogs up the thread as either alignment and generally seems anti-town for it. It's NAI. | ||
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On July 03 2019 02:55 Eversince wrote: I don't even think his scum read on me is wrong. I made a mistake and HF finding a problem with it makes sense because I made no sense. | ||
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On July 03 2019 03:13 Jockmcplop wrote: Honestly I'm not scum reading any of those guys. They are all townreads for me right now, i just don't see the ES stuff. OK, since you're town, I'll bite. What are you seeing? | ||
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On July 03 2019 04:30 Eversince wrote: Actual to elaborate a little more on my Ewya point. She will fight tooth and nail and still say nothing with Rayn. But there is like 15 pg of content and I'm the easy vote, so just kill ES, dump everything else, and try to appear like your doing something. I don't think you're the only good lynch, but I think you're the most likely to get lynched of the narrow pool of acceptable lynches. The difference is negligible, so we can say you're the best lynch... or tied for the slot at least. | ||
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On July 03 2019 04:40 Eversince wrote: So you're saying I'm an info lynch? I'm saying I think you're mafia. | ||
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On July 03 2019 04:42 Eversince wrote: Make up your mind here. I'm mafia, RNG, and now back to mafia. Why? No, I've always said you're mafia, a role which you obtained via RNG. | ||
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On July 03 2019 04:58 Eversince wrote: I apologies for the bad spelling btw. I'm so tired right now I could fall over.. I didn't through, I'm reading you as mafia because you're mafia by play. | ||
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You also haven't provided much substance imo despite aggressively posting (I know, I'm the one talking...) Overall, I'm failing to see any reason to not lynch you. Hopefully this falls into the category of sufficient justification, because I won't be going into any of the scum theater, that's discussion for another day. Throw your vote down and stop saying how much you don't like my position, if you don't like it, put your vote where your mouth is. | ||
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On July 03 2019 05:04 Conversion wrote: why am I scummy all of the sudden for scumreading you and playing the game? I really don't like your string of latest posts at all. It's almost like she's scum. Eyyyyy She is scum. | ||
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On July 03 2019 05:14 Eversince wrote: Yes maby I am to nice to people. Starting a game how is that bad? To me it seems like your taking easy town lynch because I CAN'T play the same every game. So just kill her. Maby I think about this wrong. Maby I just need to be assholes to everyone. But that is not who I am so I can't do it!! Nah, your start to this game (basically your entire first page of game (not including pre-game) filter is: 1) trying to pocket Pandain 2) random town read on first player to post 3) trying to pocket Pandain 4) AtE There's some random comment about how you don't mind conversion (that was contradicted like 2-3 posts later - and then later escalated again). Overall, here's a summary... You're all over that AtE this game You're always coming back to Pandain mafia and claiming that his read on you is wrong... Well, if he's mafia... He's not wrong is he? He's just... Well, Mafia. You went through a phase of trying to name drop every player in the game, which lead to some reads escalating rather... Strangely. You seem to be displaying a complete lack of understanding for why anyone is being read in certain ways rather than seeing things from their (town) perspective. I'm voting ES now, I'll be voting ES at end of day as well. | ||
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On July 03 2019 05:27 Eversince wrote: Now I'm be ignored. Just fucking great. As a general note: Don't engage scum. In the event that I'm wrong (which I doubt), if you seriously think I'm scum, you're going hard and far out of your way to get my opinion on things. Which is really just not good and which is why I'm mostly trying to not communicate with you... but you're very very very very insistent. It's not to be rude, it's just you typically don't ask your opponent for their take on the game. You allow them to slip naturally. | ||
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On July 03 2019 05:41 Blazinghand wrote: Eversince: (5) Pandain, Raynpelikoneet, Eywa-, Holyflare, conversion Pandain: (1) Jockmcplop trfel: (1) Grackaroni Eywa-: (1) Eversince not voting: The rest of you lot currently Eversince is set to be lynched @mods is hammer not active? | ||
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https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Deep_South | ||
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AtE -> Appeal to Emotion | ||
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On July 03 2019 07:02 Holyflare wrote: This is the most reasoning I think I've ever seen eywa post for a scum read in any game and it's coherent and says actual things that make people scummy.... and I kinda think that might make him mafia? :D that's fucked up logic This is actually a good pickup. Wrong, but good. | ||
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On July 03 2019 11:52 Eversince wrote: What's people think about Pandains cheap in thread, "Go sleep", comment on nothing else, gone.. Because I'm finding it off myself. I don't know that I would read much into it, because I also deviated from my standard gameplay to write to you because you seemed distressed.  I'll wager it's not gameplay tactics from Pandain. | ||
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On July 03 2019 07:38 Trfel wrote: Actually, sorry, something is still bugging me...I'm sorry I just don't quite get this answer. First, the bolded portion isn't true. The bolded portion happened before the events in the previous paragraph, not after. I would understand if the progression happened as you describe, but that is NOT what actually happened. And the red, about it being a pressure vote... Does this:Look like a pressure vote? You even call it a strong scumread. Maybe we have different definitions of a pressure vote, maybe I am wrong, but regardless it appears to me to be a legitimate scumread of Pandain and that seems to be clearly what you are saying here. Also, pressure votes do not work. | ||
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There was an early interaction between HF and Rayn that struck me as off, but I kind of came out of it thinking that Rayn was scum... Because they kind of amicably came to the same idea despite seemingly starting from different view points (this is when Rayn switches his vote off of ES, then back on. I don't agree with Pandain, I think ES being willing to only lynch me shows a lack of understanding of what town players are seeing in the game right now and I'm a pretty safe resting spot right now. | ||
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On July 03 2019 01:55 raynpelikoneet wrote: ahhh shit i can see it now :D This was a vote change, somehow. | ||
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On July 03 2019 01:52 raynpelikoneet wrote: oO why does she ever say that as mafia HF? | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:12 Pandain wrote: Why does mafia ES refuse to lynch a viable counterwagon on someone she has said she would be willing to lynch? If you can't explain this, you can't vote her. 1) Grack could be mafia 2) She could think I'm a more viable lynch 3) She's under a lot of pressure and people under pressure do a lot of crazy things they wouldn't do otherwise. 4) She's afraid of giving more associations, so she's locking in all of her reads (this actually is pretty well in line with her play since I joined the wagon) The issue here is, I don't think anything a player does under pressure or after a slip matters | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:19 Jockmcplop wrote: Do you really think this? Anything a player does under pressure is irrelevant? I believe there are studies on this with real world applications (investigations and so on), but typically... Yes. Most people don't handle pressure well, sometimes they are super scummy , you apply a bit of pressure and they post a bunch without thinking. Oh... Must be town?.. Sometimes the opposite will happen, it's unpredictable and pretty useless for reading a game. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:20 Pandain wrote: 1. Then vote Grack 2. Objectively not true. 3. The vote count was 3-4 Grack-ES. It's not a difficult choice to make as mafia to join the counterlynch. You can't cite pressure. 4. If ES gets lynched, we still know nothing on Grack regardless. What slip have you seen? 1) No 2) It is if he decides to jump in and play 3) what? 4) shrug | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:22 Jockmcplop wrote: Exactly. Shit like 90% of what happens in the thread happens because of pressure on someone. I disagree with what's optimal, but that does seem to be the case here. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:25 Jockmcplop wrote: Eywa what do you think of hf? Would you consider a lynch given what I posted above? Not today. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:28 Pandain wrote: Eywa looking suspicious here If you say so  | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:27 Pandain wrote: Why would ES think you are a more viable lynch? There were no votes on you. There were 3 votes on Grack. Only Jock has had some suspicions of you. Answer me this. If you can't answer it yourself then you are admitting that ES is playing against her win condition as either alignment... Why would she do that? | ||
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What about Grackaroni? Hmm, well, grackaroni MIGHT be town, but then again, he may not be. We've already defended each other, so I'm going to stick to my original plan and you can lynch me if you don't like it. My God! Eywa is so town guys, he's playing against his win condition. Why on earth would he do that as scum? WHY WOULD I AS TOWN!? | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:37 Pandain wrote: Just answer this. What about this logic doesn't make sense? All of it. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:37 Pandain wrote: At least HF thinks both are scum, so he has some leeway. You do not. What? | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:38 Pandain wrote: Elaborate. Because you're alone thinking this. No need, it's pretty obvious. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:40 Jockmcplop wrote: Like I said, if they are both scum this logic proves even more that ES wouldn't take this action. Its literally a loss for mafia as soon as she flips. This is incorrect, but probably the perception. Honestly, both are ok plays as either alignment. You can gambit on yourself or you can counter wagon. It has nothing to do with alignment, it's just about playstyle. We shouldn't all lose our minds because someone chose gambit on themselves... | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:42 Pandain wrote: I'm going to vote Eywa until he starts talking. jock wanna join me? I'll vote with you HF at eod if ES is the only other option. I can't help someone who thinks optimal town and optimal scum play are different here, they are almost always the same. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:46 Jockmcplop wrote: How is this incorrect???? If ES fails to switch to grack, then flips red, we immediately kill grack because basic logic says so. If they are both mafia, mafia loses. I can't see how on earth you can possibly think otherwise. It would be incorrect to do so. That's not an associative, what happened before is the associative. All I'm saying is that her optimal play as mafia is always the same as her optimal play for town. She can counter wagon or she can gambit, both are valid plays and are NOT associative. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:47 Eywa- wrote: It would be incorrect to do so. That's not an associative, what happened before is the associative. All I'm saying is that her optimal play as mafia is always the same as her optimal play for town. She can counter wagon or she can gambit, both are valid plays and are NOT associative. Like, based on this logic, you should always counter wagon as scum because they'll think the player you switched onto is your buddy, which would be incorrect. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:51 Jockmcplop wrote: Oh we're back on the thing where if someone's under pressure, nothing they do matters. I'm not banging my head on that brick wall, thanks. Everyone else will be able to see that this is obvious - you keep being you eywa. Eh... What? Sigh.... I'm just saying you have option A and option B and neither is "correct". If you select option A as town, you must select it as scum. Claiming "oh, this player chose to gambit rather than counter wagon" means nothing. You might as well base your read on the time ES went to sleep. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:53 Eywa- wrote: Eh... What? Sigh.... I'm just saying you have option A and option B and neither is "correct". If you select option A as town, you must select it as scum. Claiming "oh, this player chose to gambit rather than counter wagon" means nothing. You might as well base your read on the time ES went to sleep. This applies regardless of either player's alignment. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:56 Pandain wrote: I don't think your idea that "The optimal town play is the optimal scum play" is true. Or even close to true. For instance, ES will almost certainly get lynched if she tries to continue pushing for you. As town, it makes sense if she truly believes you are scum. As scum, it doesn't make sense, becuase she will almost certainly get lynched. Let me give you a counter example. Let's say we are playing a massive game, with 20 players and 5 scum. If one scum member buses and lynches all the 4 other scum, that's optimal town play. Is that optimal scum play? Of course not. No it doesn't. Oh my god. As town the optimal play is to not get lynched. If all town are slippery enough to not get lynched, then who wins? Town. Without fail. Not getting lynched is hands down the most valuable skill in Mafia as either alignment. That is a fact. Saying "oh they don't mind the consequences of" NOOOOOOO. That is NAI and it's bad town play if that's the case. | ||
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On July 03 2019 21:57 Pandain wrote: Your philosophy is wrong This is the thinking that causes most sites to have terrible town winrates to be honest (disclaimer: I don't know what the winrates is here) | ||
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BUT YOUR REAS ACCURACY IS 50% WHY ON EARTH WOULD I DO THAT? | ||
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On July 03 2019 22:02 Pandain wrote: I don't agree with you at all but you explained yourself and I think you're town. Disagreement and proof that it works in the same post  | ||
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On July 03 2019 22:09 Pandain wrote: I have extremely strong townreads on Jock, ES, Rayn, and Eywa. Meaning I think the last two scum are between Conv, Trfell, HF, and Grack. I actually have a very slight town read on HF too. That's quite the turnaround | ||
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On July 04 2019 00:48 Jockmcplop wrote: Casually dismissive probably won't work in this case hf I'm too persistent. It took you quite a while to get here. Care to comment? | ||
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On July 04 2019 00:51 Jockmcplop wrote: I have literally no idea what you're trying to say. I'm just saying you were far more enlightened last game, this game it's taken you a while to come to this point. | ||
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1) It makes the game impossible to read 2) Scum can just cruise by once they get town read 3) Your reads just aren't good enough | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:08 Eywa- wrote: Pro tip guys: Don't white knight people as town 1) It makes the game impossible to read 2) Scum can just cruise by once they get town read 3) Your reads just aren't good enough I'm not trying to be overly negative, I think very few people fit into the category where this becomes an acceptable play... But it clearly didn't work here. | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:11 Eversince wrote: Is that at me Eywa? No, you should have been left to defend yourself... You played right. Doesn't mean you're town. | ||
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If you're mafia, well, this is a minor set back. | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:18 Eversince wrote: How is any of this really? m!Jock makes no sense defending m!ES. m!Pandain makes no sense. Either one couldn't move the vote anyway. If anything it means Truffles/ES team. There's usually a lot of benefit in mafia white knighting... So... I guess refer to the exhibit where I explained that it's bad for town to do it. | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:24 Eversince wrote: I don't care about any of that Eywa, I care about you not explaining you reads. Everyone who voted with you thinks I'm town. Quizzing me with that knowledge is not considered scum hunting. I'm probably the one town lock in the game. You should be scum hunting elsewhere. | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:26 Pandain wrote: What does white knighting even me. If I think someone is town, I'm going to defend them. Saying otherwise is stupid. Accuracy is important as well... But more so than that, if you don't defend people who you think are town (which is white knighting), it leaves less space for scum to help each other and take over the game. It's an objectively bad play for town, due to the implications it has on scum team. If you never do it as town, scum team are more isolated from their partners. | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:28 Eywa- wrote: Accuracy is important as well... But more so than that, if you don't defend people who you think are town (which is white knighting), it leaves less space for scum to help each other and take over the game. It's an objectively bad play for town, due to the implications it has on scum team. If you never do it as town, scum team are more isolated from their partners. This goes back to what I was saying yesterday, the #1 most important skill for town is staying alive, so that they don't need people to defend them. | ||
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I think it's pretty clear I'm voting ES tomorrow, nothing has changed for me really, it's not like conversion was completely outside of my poe, he was just higher up. | ||
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On July 04 2019 05:32 Eversince wrote: Ok! -Lets talk random game tactics instead of trying to find scum- Eywa 2019 Or we can all ask the global town read questions | ||
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Contributing my reads does nothing to progress the game state if everyone thinks I'm town. Unless they think my reads have a higher accuracy than their own, which... They don't. So I'm not sure what you're getting at. | ||
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That's a quick conversion from conversion is fine to conversion is bleh. | ||
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On July 04 2019 21:22 Grackaroni wrote: Because you're being townie and you won't get lynched. I agree with this, solid chance Pandain dies, which is probably a good thing for town despite the fact that he's obvtown. | ||
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On July 04 2019 21:31 Pandain wrote: I'd be good with lynching Eywa, someone who is down with lynching someone who he thinks is obvtown obv town doesn't mean pro town | ||
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But obviously the counter wagon screwed that plan. Now, I'm in a rough spot, because the element of "what do I allow people to get away with" comes into it. I think if Jock is scum for instance, he needs to be lynched... So I might weigh a little bit less purely on reads and a bit more on "what if" and who deserves death. | ||
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On July 04 2019 21:38 Eversince wrote: Why does m!ES hard stand against the only other wagon against her?! I literally die here and town is 1 down. m!ES never plays that way so I know you can't prove it. 1) Because you wanted to town tell 2) Because Grack is also mafia 3) Because you didn't actually think Grack would get lynched I mean... Stop playing this "Why would I do this" game. It's generally anti-town. | ||
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On July 04 2019 21:42 Jockmcplop wrote: You do you eywa, but I can't see you managing to convince anyone to vote with you on a townread because you feel like they deserve to die. Well, vote ES instead. I still think that's a fine lynch. | ||
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On July 04 2019 21:40 Eywa- wrote: 1) Because you wanted to town tell 2) Because Grack is also mafia 3) Because you didn't actually think Grack would get lynched I mean... Stop playing this "Why would I do this" game. It's generally anti-town. Actually, it's funny because there are more reasons why you would do this than otherwise as scum. | ||
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On July 04 2019 22:40 Holyflare wrote: Eywa talk me through why it's ES into lynching me in your lynch order? I never lynch you if ES flips mafia and I thought there was a decent chance ES would flip mafia. Everything she's posting now seems like a lie / blatant misunderstanding, yet tone seems townie which goes back to what I was saying about someone under pressure... It's absolutely pointless. I'm sticking to the early reads, when she wasn't under pressure when Truffle asked her a question early on an she completely 180 on Conversion because she needed a scum/null read. The early game felt so forced... It's almost like a caricature of her town meta which she repeatedly indicates she's aware of. For you, I think you're coming across almost as informed more than anything. (in comparison to your town game) | ||
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On July 04 2019 22:53 Eversince wrote: So we're going back to you'll lynch me because you think I'm mafia? You'll ignore the m!HF (you world) who is 'informed' (TMI) But I'm the better lynch? What?! It's actually hilarious that you're still on about this. I've always been trying to lynch you because I think you're mafia. | ||
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On July 04 2019 23:15 Eversince wrote: You scum read me but claiming that high thread activity is alignment indicative? Really? WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH | ||
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You should probably all reconsider what you think you understand about this game. | ||
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On July 05 2019 05:14 raynpelikoneet wrote: eywa are you with me? Seems likely. Grack NK is interesting. It suggests someone who doesn't know Holy Flare is about to die is happy with the current balance of the game... Which would have been 4-3 in favor of the group on the counter wagon. HF flipping town confirms that there is at least 1 mafia on the counter wagon (and my guess given the strength of the wagon - probably 2). So guaranteed 1 mafia among Jock Truffle Eversince And 1 mafia among Jock Truffle Eversince Rayn Everyone has AT worst a 50% chance of hitting today by shooting inside Jock/truffle/eversince. I think all three of them should throw their votes before we decide. | ||
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Rayn: you're all wrong. Pandain: we're all wrong Eywa: you're all wrong Jockmcplop: why are you jumping to conclusions? Eversince : Vanish (it looks like her post was intended to be delivered before flip) Idk, obviously the only thing that's bothering me is the hammer from yesterday because it prevented a lynch on eversince which is equally likely to be dumb town or scum taking advantage of dumb town. | ||
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If you don't think I'm mafia, take your vote off of Rayn, we only vote on this side of the wagons if you think both of us are mafia. Wait... I have a great idea. Guys, hear me out. You were all 3 wrong about 3 players. Let's keep the band together and keep voting as a block! Absolutely brilliant. | ||
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So we're always voting either Jock or ES today. | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:39 Eywa- wrote: So, truffles is only ever scum with ES, so he is never the target today. If Rayn is scum, there is still 1 scum among Jock / ES. So we're always voting either Jock or ES today. So, if ES is town (which is doubtful), she knows that it's between me, Rayn and jockmcplop... She doesn't believe both scum targetted her d1 (wow... You're correct!). | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:43 Jockmcplop wrote: Answer my question above and you will see that this is wrong Oh, I don't think that you and Rayn is a likely combo. But then think about it... The hammer clears truffle unless he's saving m!es. Me and Rayn are extremely unlikely as a combo... And my filter in no way indicates that I have the slightest chance of flipping scum. So... Eversince should be voting you. | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:46 Jockmcplop wrote: Are you trying to think of something? I know you're here. Answer the question!!! If I'm scum with rayn WHY THE FUCK WOULD I NOT JUST VOTE FOR ES??? Because hammer doesn't end the day. I also don't think it's the scum combo. I was explaining how your current wagon is coo coo for cocoa puffs. | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:50 Jockmcplop wrote: Eversince should be voting for me... Eversince thinks eversince is town. Why would she vote for someone who is trying to save town??? That's insane. Why would I be trying to save town if I was mafia?? So you believe with near 100% certainty that it's me and Rayn? | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:52 Jockmcplop wrote: Yeah but with me rayn and pand on ES unless one of them changes its the end of the game unless ES is mafia. Who do you think is the scum combo? Me and trfel? Me and ES? Why do you think I'm mafia all of a sudden? None of what you're saying makes any sense at all. I'm not accusing anyone, I'm trying to get you to see that you being on a vote with ES makes no sense. Let's say ES and you are both town. The only possible mafia combo is me and Rayn. Do you firmly believe that to be the case? If not? Change your vote. | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:53 Jockmcplop wrote: NO Its its either you/rayn or trfel/ES Like I said before I'm about 75% in favour of it being you/rayn Truffle is not scum with anyone other than ES, the day 1 hammer indicates that. | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:56 Jockmcplop wrote: That's exactly what I said scumteam possibility 1: Rayn/Eywa -75% Scumteam possibility 2 trfel/ES - 25% Why can't it be Rayn + ES? | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:57 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm fairly confident. I'm not 100% townreading ES.. This is exactly what I've been saying for a few pages. That's why I was saying to truffles that 1 of rayn/ES is mafia. We need to work out which one, then the game is solved. But we agree the game is solved from ES PoV? | ||
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Possible mafia combinations are truffle + ES, ES + rayn or Rayn + truffle. Since none of those align with the possible combinations of t!es, ES has to be mafia. | ||
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On July 05 2019 19:59 Jockmcplop wrote: I'm pretty much ruling it out because of how the game has gone so far. It could be, but I'm putting that down as being extremely unlikely. This remote possibility is why we should vote into whichever of rayn/ES we decide is mafia. The issue with ruling that out is... If ES is mafia, you, pandain and truffle have acted as her scum team... Therefore Rayn would not have had to do anything. | ||
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On July 05 2019 21:28 raynpelikoneet wrote: did you become an idiot somehow eywa? i am never ever in any fucking world mafia with eversince. neither are you so why the fuck can't you see that? I still think Truffle is the more likely scum buddy, but I can't definitively say that. | ||
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On July 05 2019 21:14 Jockmcplop wrote: Eywa some of your early reads are still unexplained. Are you in an explainy mood today? I'd like to know where your townreads came from early on, specifically these ones: They weren't town reads, just outside of my interest to lynch day 1. Combination of factors 1) ES was super scummy and would be the first and only lynch from the jock/truffles/pandain wagon. 2) I felt like Conversion's entrance was OK and then people's reactions to him made him more likely town than HF and Rayn who at this point were in agreement and didn't argue at all. | ||
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On July 05 2019 22:09 raynpelikoneet wrote: i don't think that's the case, i just posted about jock. trfel at least is trying to be reasonable, jock just decided who to call mafia and is making the evidence to fit his case even when the evidence clearly suggest otherwise. Jock understands his town position, Truffle has demonstrated no such understanding. Truffle hammered D1, but somehow was AFK at both flips, waited to get the vibe before posting. | ||
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On July 05 2019 22:37 raynpelikoneet wrote: Look guys, let's assume jock really forgot about eywa. Okay this makes sense but the he says: Pandain is confirmed vigilante aka confirmed town so he writes off pandain + rayn. The only possible combo for him here is Trfel + ES but [u][i]Trfel is 100% mafia and ES is NOT 100% mafia?!?!?!?!?! If jock really forgot about eywa and is telling the truth in his first post then BOTH of Trfel and ES are ALWAYS 100% mafia. So jock is lying 100% of the time here. Al-fucking-ways. This is correct. So is ES though, so let's just lynch her. | ||
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Please confirm if you are 1-shot. I have confirmed with the mod that your shot would go through even if you are NK, so this isn't LyLo. If we narrow down the PoE to 3, it's gg. | ||
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On July 07 2019 04:34 Jockmcplop wrote: Bad choice but I'll likely not be here defending myself so look at trfel also while i'm not here because trfel is definitely mafia. So what did we learn? If you're voting with 2 other players and your top 3 scum reads flip town... STOP VOTING WITH THAT BLOCK. | ||
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Trfel's game overall just looks like someone who's not trying to get into trouble. The hammer with less than a minute day 1 is really bad. 1) it saves mafia 2) there was comment on it. I would expect a townie who comes back for a last minute check to hesitate long enough to carry them over deadline or to at least comment on how close it came because they came to the thread, decided and hammered with less than a minute left. | ||
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So strong players don't really do it as wolf (though they may have occasional lemons in their town games that play this way). Weak players dont typically do it due to lack of confidence as scum. | ||
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On July 09 2019 16:50 Trfel wrote: You want the real answer? I lied. I didn't think she had a strong scum game. But I wasn't going to call her out or say like "everyone but Eversince has a strong scum game," that's insulting. You can clearly see through the rest of my posts, especially the early ones, that I characterized Eversince's mafia game as forced, dry, formulaic, aka not that great. But I try to be nice and non-insulting. Obviously I was wrong, and her play this game was incredibly improved. But that's why I said what I said, I basically just omitted an exception for Eversince to avoid being insulting. If that makes me mafia I'd do it again anyway. The irony of this post if you flip town. Too bad you won't. | ||
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On July 09 2019 13:41 Trfel wrote: Honestly I don't know what to say other than I'm sorry for playing an absolutely miserable game. You guys deserve to win and I'm truly sorry that my poor play took that away from you. I don't feel like making a case on Jockmcplop, I don't think it would change anything. This is not a town entrance. | ||
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On July 10 2019 00:19 raynpelikoneet wrote: Eywa are you around for how long? I just got off work i am reading Jock's fliter. I'm barely around. | ||
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On July 09 2019 13:41 Trfel wrote: 1. My initial townread on Eversince. The reason I posted it was to start conversation. If you look at every town game I've played in years, I've started with an early read of some type to try and get the game going. Yes I know it's a stretch, but it effectively got the game started, so I consider it a success. Look at any if my games where I was present early on and you will see this trend. 2. Voting for Conversion. Again, I wasn't trying to hide my presence in the thread, I posted 10 minutes before the deadline. I wasn't trying to hide my vote either, but I was on a phone and I was rushing to read as much of Conversion's filter as possible. I thought my time was better spent trying to read Conversion's filter and deciding what to do than posting in the thread. Maybe that was wrong but that's what I did. The fact that he only later explains that he voted conversion because of a scum read is awful... In this post he basically just says he read his filter, but doesn't explicitly state his EOD reads which is kind of what I'd be looking for town to do if they were justifying a fuck up. | ||
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I mean, trfel also said today that it wasn't due to a town read on ES, but a mafia read on Conversion? So... He didn't have a solid town read on ES, and he had not discussed anything negative about Conversion at all that day. So... Instead of posting something like "why not grack?" or point to someone he actually talked about, he re-read Conversion's filter (note: he didn't re-read ES who he claims he was not town reading to the point of saving). And he comes to the conclusion with 0 discussion that Conversion is definitely scummy. Well, that doesn't make much sense. There are even points during Day 1 where trfel liked Conversion I think... But I'd have to go back and check. | ||
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Trfel scum reads me all of day 1, never pushes my lynch over Conversion... Me, being town, the last 10 minutes of day 1 from Trfel position would be pushing a scum read, not checking to see if I have a scum read. Also, remember #915? Well, who did Trfel push day 2? Rayn... Why? Because Rayn makes more sense for town!jockmcplop to push than Eywa. | ||
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On July 09 2019 13:49 Trfel wrote: Also I didn't try to save Eversince, I tried to lynch mafia. To me there is a difference. With Conversion that was a random lynch to save Eversince; with you I thought you were mafia. I did look at Eversince's filter D2 to re-evaluate and found some suspicious things, I really really regret not paying them more attention  But it is a lie to say I did not re-evaluate Eversince D2 because I spent a significant amount of time in her filter and my thoughts are clearly posted. | ||
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On July 10 2019 01:56 Trfel wrote: No that's not what I said at all, Day 1 I voted because of a town read on Eversince. I didn't have a solid read on Conversion. What makes you think otherwise? | ||
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On July 05 2019 15:16 Trfel wrote: I'm not mafia and I refuse to be lynched, better try something else. Judging purely by gamestate here it makes sense to me that raynpelikoneet is mafia, it feels like mafia has a decent amount of thread pull and influence. Honestly it makes me think of raynpelikoneet/Eywa- or raynpelikoneet/jockmcplop. I have no other real reason for why raynpelikoneet is mafia though Jockmcplop, can I ask you why I should be towreading you? (not a challenge, honest question) This post is terrible, it seems like preparation for when Eversince dies, because that clears me and Rayn... He has to maintain a scum read on Jockmcplop. | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:02 Trfel wrote: Day 1 vs Day 2... Day 1 saved Eversince Day 2 tried to vote for mafia (still thought Eversince was town, stupidly) You were on a wagon with people who had mafia reads on 3 townies... How did you come to the decision that you were not re-reading their filters? | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: Trfel says on D1 he didn't vote to save ES. He voted Conv because he thought ES is town and with Conv he would have at least a chance to lynch mafia. On D2 he says he wasn't gonna save ES and the situation is anyways different from D1 because he had a scumread (rayn). Day 2, he also voted you because he thought ES was town. | ||
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I read this. Funny thing about this: Grackaroni and Jockmcplop had nearly identical reads D1 and committed to the same end result. What would you say Grackaroni's alignment is? | ||
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jockmcplop's play is objectively bad this game (sorry man), and he's been wrong. Trfel's play has been anything but noteworthy, he doesn't seem to be having a particularly bad game, but when you look at the results... Woah, it's a horrible game. | ||
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Trfel was trying to push mafia, yet... His posts all game indicate that he should have been pushing me day 2, not Rayn. | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:16 raynpelikoneet wrote: I know he is town but i would still lynch him if he was in the game or did the same stuff. I don't really remember what Grack did and what was his reasoning, i stopped caring about that when he got shot, but here's something i know: For me mafia isn't really about finding contradictions and shit like that, you know like "fake posts" and shit. I hate when people get called out purely based on something superficial. For me mafia is about trying to find out why people post what they did and even if you did the most awful stupid shit it doesn't necessarily mean you're mafia. What i think ALWAYS makes people mafia is when people go against their own logic, one that they clearly say or imply is the case and then they do something else. Like when ES makes like 10 posts hard defending Grack for meta, just to say that "grack could do that as either alignment". That's always going to be a lie, and that's always a lie mafia makes. Always. Jock had reads. I don't believe Jock believes his assumed town read will flip mafia over his assumed scum read when he votes with two of his his assumed scum reads. I just don't believe it. The only reasonable explanation i can come up with that he went all in saving ES. I literally can't even think of a townie thought process for what he did based on what he said in thread in his D1 filter. See.. Grack wasn't even on my radar day 1 due to how people were talking to/about him. So we disagree about whether or not he would have been a good lynch. The rest is valid, but Trfel hasn't given me anything either. | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:19 Jockmcplop wrote: When this game finishes i want you to remember this post in relation to my future games. I thought that I tended to think things through clearly until you got a hold of my filter this last couple of days. Now youre just exposing the fact that I play this game like an idiot. Live and learn I guess. If you're scum: Well played (though I don't think this is the outcome) If you're town, I think the amount of reads you posted as you had them turned out to be very confusing (rather than clearly mapping out your thought process). It's better to keep some of that closer to the chest because people will be less confused. | ||
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On July 04 2019 17:38 Trfel wrote: My only concern about Eywa- is that sometimes it feels like Eywa- is more concerned about looking good or being superior to everyone else, rather than finding who is mafia. Does anyone else see this? I hard disagree with this. My goal is always to find mafia, I don't give out my thoughts so much because when people go back to look at my filter, they can very quickly understand who I'm scum reading at various points without putting their own spin on whether they think it's valid or not. I want people to read me off of what I'm thinking and not whether they agree with why I'm thinking that. | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:45 raynpelikoneet wrote: So when you're town and playing a bad game you should be lynched? It all depends on how much you respect my reads. | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:48 raynpelikoneet wrote: idk we can continue with mafia theory after the game. I agree Trfel has been making bad posts. I think Jock's posts have more mafia motivation behind them though. Maybe it's a difference on how we see the game, maybe you are right maybe i am. I think i am. May i ask you though why did you scumread me last game since you were clearly wrong and i literally made one case that was good and on mafia? I scum read you every game, it's pretty much my default since I haven't figured out how to get a read on you... I find it very difficult to come to mutual ground with you on pretty much everything. | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:56 Eywa- wrote: I scum read you every game, it's pretty much my default since I haven't figured out how to get a read on you... I find it very difficult to come to mutual ground with you on pretty much everything. I also scum read you in that Italian Mafia that was super weird and never to be spoken of again. | ||
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On July 10 2019 02:58 raynpelikoneet wrote: We townread each other in the stupid multi-faction game. Although that should not really be used as an example because i didn't really care shit about town in that game when i figured out i can make a deal with mafia and win N1. I don't think you have seen me playing as scum though? No, I haven't. But, yeah... Moral of the story I don't know how to read you yet. | ||
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On July 10 2019 03:01 raynpelikoneet wrote: meh you didn't play in the two games between I try to stay mysterious. I can't be giving it all away for free. | ||
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I think saving players as town is really really counter productive... | ||
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On July 10 2019 05:03 raynpelikoneet wrote: I think you'd definitely had a better chance of solving the game if you lynched ES D1 (obviously). Maybe you had won, maybe i would have done some different things and we would see who gets lynched when it was sure bussing had occurred. idk. You were "right" there, i say "right" because it was some specific point and i have even no idea where that came from. But maybe yeah. I think if ES gets lynched day 1, you actually have to play. As it was, it kind of dictated how D2+ would go. | ||
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I see where you're coming from on that point though. I really enjoyed this game, even though it's kind of broken if you fuck up D1/N1... I mean, if you fuck up D1/N1 with a vig, you should always lose though. | ||
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On July 10 2019 05:15 raynpelikoneet wrote: I honestly never accounted ES' "possibly afking" into anything. I would never do that. I told her if she needs to go and cant play ask for a replacement. Idk who townier people i called mafia? I only called jock mafia i think and that was after when he made that case on me which i honestly thought was soooo bad (granted idk if it was "soooo bad" since i misread one of his posts). Idk about the last paragraph? Are you talking about D3 here earlier too or? I think you're being critical of your play though, you never come out looking worse than Trfel tbh. | ||
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https://tl.net/forum/mafia/549612-5p-all-cops#1 It's quite PR heavy to contrast with this one  | ||
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Dethy is solvable, town should always win, this is not dethy. | ||
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On July 10 2019 06:59 Jockmcplop wrote: I've rolled vt 5 times in a row now. Is that normal? It seems alot. I want a different role dammit! VT is the best role imo | ||
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