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On July 02 2019 16:20 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2019 10:37 Trfel wrote:On July 02 2019 10:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
That's something i can possibly understand. My problem is pretty much the wording because as someone already said the mafia game is old and i don't think there is any reason why ES as mafia couldn't start like last game today. Like i mean the wording since for you also -- as you said, last game you wanted to see if she could play like that as mafia. Why is it not the case now?
Idk if my explanation is clear enoguh. I'm not sure if I fully understand what you are getting at but I'll try... Last game I noticed a difference in Eversince's play to her last mafia game, but I wasn't sure if the difference was caused by a change in alignment or the passage of time, so I didn't think much of it. Then it became clear she was town, leading me to believe that the change in alignment is the primary reason for the posting style difference mentioned previously. Yes, this is an assumption, but I think it's an okay assumption because other reasons also support the townread. In this game, Eversince's play is like her town game last game and different from her mafia game. And moreso, the difference is in a way that is harder to replicate as mafia. I know for me and many others, posting as mafia is difficult, and as a result the posts feel rigid, forced, and dry. Posts tend to be a little longer, more focused and less carefree and spontaneous. This contrast is how I was able to townread Tumblewood early on in a previous game and that townread nearly managed to win the game. Do you feel like this applies to you this game trfel? No, I don't.
@Jockmcplop, my townread on Eversince achieved exactly what it was supposed to.
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On July 02 2019 16:28 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2019 16:26 Trfel wrote:On July 02 2019 16:20 Holyflare wrote:On July 02 2019 10:37 Trfel wrote:On July 02 2019 10:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
That's something i can possibly understand. My problem is pretty much the wording because as someone already said the mafia game is old and i don't think there is any reason why ES as mafia couldn't start like last game today. Like i mean the wording since for you also -- as you said, last game you wanted to see if she could play like that as mafia. Why is it not the case now?
Idk if my explanation is clear enoguh. I'm not sure if I fully understand what you are getting at but I'll try... Last game I noticed a difference in Eversince's play to her last mafia game, but I wasn't sure if the difference was caused by a change in alignment or the passage of time, so I didn't think much of it. Then it became clear she was town, leading me to believe that the change in alignment is the primary reason for the posting style difference mentioned previously. Yes, this is an assumption, but I think it's an okay assumption because other reasons also support the townread. In this game, Eversince's play is like her town game last game and different from her mafia game. And moreso, the difference is in a way that is harder to replicate as mafia. I know for me and many others, posting as mafia is difficult, and as a result the posts feel rigid, forced, and dry. Posts tend to be a little longer, more focused and less carefree and spontaneous. This contrast is how I was able to townread Tumblewood early on in a previous game and that townread nearly managed to win the game. Do you feel like this applies to you this game trfel? No, I don't. @Jockmcplop, my townread on Eversince achieved exactly what it was supposed to. Do you still townread ES? Of course. I do really believe in tonereads of this type. Her post about being willing to lynch Grackaroni already (!) makes me doubt slightly though, feels a bit opportunistic/eager, but I think the tone read is much stronger.
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Sorry I'm not going to be very active until later tonight. It's a busy day for me, and I just learned that the company I've really been looking forward to working with is only giving me a temporary contract position instead of full employment, which is very disappointing after I've been unemployed for 15 months now  so I'm pretty sad and out of it.
Been filter diving from the top. I like raynpelikoneet, his play seems to match his play last game very well. It feels like he's trying to solve the game, and he's still not focusing in and incessantly pushing single things. The thing that makes me townread him is that (assuming Eversince is town, which admittedly there is a chance I am wrong, but that is my current read) on Holyflare's comment he instantly switched his vote back to Eversince and has resolutely kept it there. If raynpelikoneet is mafia he knows that this is wrong, and in accordance with his "new," non-tunneling style of play I think he would be a bit more hesitant/reserved with that. Which makes me think he is town. If I explained that adequately.
Unsure about Jockmcplop currently.
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +On July 02 2019 16:30 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2019 16:28 Eversince wrote:
I need to figure who to vote for. I'd be fine with Conv for reasons I already said. Grack would be ok but rather not, if he's town he'll start playing. Or we just lynch into lurkers. Which is also trash. Lynching lurkers isn't always trash. I personally don't see the rush to figure out a vote right now. I guess we all play differently but I'd rather wait until near the deadline to gather as much as possible first. On July 02 2019 16:38 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2019 16:33 Eversince wrote:On July 02 2019 16:30 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 02 2019 16:28 Eversince wrote:
I need to figure who to vote for. I'd be fine with Conv for reasons I already said. Grack would be ok but rather not, if he's town he'll start playing. Or we just lynch into lurkers. Which is also trash. Lynching lurkers isn't always trash. I personally don't see the rush to figure out a vote right now. I guess we all play differently but I'd rather wait until near the deadline to gather as much as possible first. Usually I do too. Which might happen again but I'll need to go back to sleep sometime tonight. I don't want to wake up tomorrow with 10-15 extra pages to try to read with 15 minutes, decide and make a vote. I'd rather talk while people are about. Fair enough. What do you think of Pandain? Immediately reversing his only read is a little suspicious and 'I changed my perspective' is a very opaque answer as to what happened. It kinda it makes it impossible to progress a conversation about what exactly pandain is thinking. Not being open about your thought process is mafia motivated at this point, especially when something like his trfel read debacle sticks out so obviously in the thread. His vote on you also seems like he's forcing something, trying to be first to vote for some reason. I can see mafia motivation everywhere with this guy already. ##vote pandain On July 02 2019 16:46 Jockmcplop wrote:
I know I said I didn't need to vote early, but this really jumped out at me. Pandain come back and be more town for me, I don't like having such a strong scumread so early lol. Pandain made no posts in between these posts.
I know this has already been pointed out, but this scumread of Pandain feels somewhat fabricated. It feels like his suspicions of Pandain kinda came out of nowhere, it feels a bit forced to me. I could easily be wrong though; I'd like to see more from Jockmcplop, I think he's put himself in an interesting position with the null read on Eversince and the current vote count.
@Jockmcplop, do you have an explanation for your thought process through the quoted posts?
Holyflare, this sentence is for you, just because I know you like seeing your name on things.
So far I'm suspicious of Eywa-. Eywa- feels a bit self-conscious, which seems highly opposite their town play last game.
+ Show Spoiler [Analysis] +On July 03 2019 02:43 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 02:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 03 2019 02:40 Eywa- wrote:On July 03 2019 02:32 raynpelikoneet wrote:On July 03 2019 02:29 Eywa- wrote:
I'm really not sure what else I'm supposed to provide or how it'll be valuable. Why did you say "if eversince flips mafia then this game is just super easy going forward"? You must have a reason for it and afaik it's the reasoning you are voting for her (as you haven't said anythig else on why she is mafia). So what am i supposed to think if not that? Not my reason for voting... My reason for voting is that I think ES is mafia. cute, why is she mafia? The biggest reason is her role PM. Probably RNG. Very similar to posts that Eywa- made last game as town. On July 03 2019 05:01 Eywa- wrote:
The role pm part was a joke... Oops, somehow it's being quoted in every post now. But this didn't come up last game at all? Feels like Eywa- is self-conscious about not giving reasons in this game, which wasn't at all present last game, despite playing in a very similar way.
On July 03 2019 04:35 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 04:30 Eversince wrote:
Actual to elaborate a little more on my Ewya point.
She will fight tooth and nail and still say nothing with Rayn. But there is like 15 pg of content and I'm the easy vote, so just kill ES, dump everything else, and try to appear like your doing something. I don't think you're the only good lynch, but I think you're the most likely to get lynched of the narrow pool of acceptable lynches. The difference is negligible, so we can say you're the best lynch... or tied for the slot at least. On July 03 2019 05:07 Eywa- wrote:
Idk, feels like you've slipped a bunch and you're reluctant to just tell people they're wrong when reading you. You on multiple occasions tiptoed around that either indicating you don't like the way you're being read or that you felt a read on you was justified (despite it being a mafia read)
You also haven't provided much substance imo despite aggressively posting (I know, I'm the one talking...)
Overall, I'm failing to see any reason to not lynch you. Hopefully this falls into the category of sufficient justification, because I won't be going into any of the scum theater, that's discussion for another day.
Throw your vote down and stop saying how much you don't like my position, if you don't like it, put your vote where your mouth is. On July 03 2019 05:31 Eywa- wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 05:14 Eversince wrote:On July 03 2019 05:07 Eywa- wrote:
Idk, feels like you've slipped a bunch and you're reluctant to just tell people they're wrong when reading you. You on multiple occasions tiptoed around that either indicating you don't like the way you're being read or that you felt a read on you was justified (despite it being a mafia read)
You also haven't provided much substance imo despite aggressively posting (I know, I'm the one talking...)
Overall, I'm failing to see any reason to not lynch you. Hopefully this falls into the category of sufficient justification, because I won't be going into any of the scum theater, that's discussion for another day.
Throw your vote down and stop saying how much you don't like my position, if you don't like it, put your vote where your mouth is. Yes maby I am to nice to people. Starting a game how is that bad? To me it seems like your taking easy town lynch because I CAN'T play the same every game. So just kill her. Maby I think about this wrong. Maby I just need to be assholes to everyone. But that is not who I am so I can't do it!! Nah, your start to this game (basically your entire first page of game (not including pre-game) filter is: 1) trying to pocket Pandain 2) random town read on first player to post 3) trying to pocket Pandain 4) AtE There's some random comment about how you don't mind conversion (that was contradicted like 2-3 posts later - and then later escalated again). Overall, here's a summary... You're all over that AtE this game You're always coming back to Pandain mafia and claiming that his read on you is wrong... Well, if he's mafia... He's not wrong is he? He's just... Well, Mafia. You went through a phase of trying to name drop every player in the game, which lead to some reads escalating rather... Strangely. You seem to be displaying a complete lack of understanding for why anyone is being read in certain ways rather than seeing things from their (town) perspective. I'm voting ES now, I'll be voting ES at end of day as well. It feels like Eywa-'s scumread and vote on Eversince is just following the momentum of everyone else, the reasons and actual strength behind the read comes out later. Eywa- even admits that Eversince is just the most likely lynch out of a narrow pool. Side note, what is Eywa-'s lynch pool anyway? They only mentioned four townreads, which leaves four remaining players, I'd say that's quite a wide lynch pool, instead of the narrow pool Eywa- claims... But Eywa-'s scumread on Eversince increases in strength from "Eversince is one acceptable lynch out of a group of acceptable lynches" to "I'm lynching Eversince no matter what," and the only reasons cited are all from posts and events that happened before the first post in question.
It feels extremely opportunistic to me and somewhat forced.
@Eywa-, can you explain your thought process through the quoted posts? I'm interested in how your read on Eversince has changed over those posts, and what caused that change.
I haven't gotten to Conversion and Grackaroni yet, and I need to reread Pandain; I will try to do so as soon as I can. Heading out for a bit.
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I don't think Eversince is mafia. I'm just not yet sure who O want to lynch.
Jockmcplop, thanks for the explanation. That helps me understand better.
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Actually, sorry, something is still bugging me...On July 03 2019 07:11 Jockmcplop wrote:
ok trfel
I tried to explain my thought process in the posts, but I can explain further.
I don't like deciding who to vote for immediately and just sticking to it no matter what else happens. The post I was replying to there was like "We need to figure out who to vote for". I was pointing out that we don't, its still the first half of day 1 so there's no need at that point.
Then pandain makes some dodgy looking posts and vote with basically no reasoning behind it, so I questioned him but he disappeared so I voted for him. When I asked him to come back and be more townie its because I want him to come back and be more townie, then I will remove my vote from him (which I will also do if someone else starts being very mafia).
Its a pressure vote. It sucks that I have to explain this to you and you can't read between the lines.
I'm sorry I just don't quite get this answer. First, the bolded portion isn't true. The bolded portion happened before the events in the previous paragraph, not after. I would understand if the progression happened as you describe, but that is NOT what actually happened.
And the red, about it being a pressure vote... Does this:On July 02 2019 16:38 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2019 16:33 Eversince wrote:On July 02 2019 16:30 Jockmcplop wrote:On July 02 2019 16:28 Eversince wrote:
I need to figure who to vote for. I'd be fine with Conv for reasons I already said. Grack would be ok but rather not, if he's town he'll start playing. Or we just lynch into lurkers. Which is also trash. Lynching lurkers isn't always trash. I personally don't see the rush to figure out a vote right now. I guess we all play differently but I'd rather wait until near the deadline to gather as much as possible first. Usually I do too. Which might happen again but I'll need to go back to sleep sometime tonight. I don't want to wake up tomorrow with 10-15 extra pages to try to read with 15 minutes, decide and make a vote. I'd rather talk while people are about. Fair enough. What do you think of Pandain? Immediately reversing his only read is a little suspicious and 'I changed my perspective' is a very opaque answer as to what happened. It kinda it makes it impossible to progress a conversation about what exactly pandain is thinking. Not being open about your thought process is mafia motivated at this point, especially when something like his trfel read debacle sticks out so obviously in the thread. His vote on you also seems like he's forcing something, trying to be first to vote for some reason. I can see mafia motivation everywhere with this guy already. ##vote pandain On July 02 2019 16:46 Jockmcplop wrote:
I know I said I didn't need to vote early, but this really jumped out at me. Pandain come back and be more town for me, I don't like having such a strong scumread so early lol. Look like a pressure vote? You even call it a strong scumread. Maybe we have different definitions of a pressure vote, maybe I am wrong, but regardless it appears to me to be a legitimate scumread of Pandain and that seems to be clearly what you are saying here.
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On July 03 2019 00:04 Grackaroni wrote:I think that post is very strange when compared to how he viewed me last game. I don't see how he can be so bothered by someone being willing to lynch me. Show nested quote +On June 24 2019 04:55 Trfel wrote:
@Shapelog, what are you cooking?
Currently I think Grackaroni is the best shot at being mafia. He didn't interact at all with anyone and just vanished from the thread, and it doesn't really make sense for him to be scared of an innocent child... unless he's mafia. I know it's not very strong but it's the best I see, anyone have any similar or different ideas? Also, @Grackaroni, it's one thing to be suspicious of someone, it's another to be willing to lynch them. To me being willing to lynch them is way, way stronger, like I'd be happy if they were dead right now. I even said in my post last game "I know it's not very strong."
Also, Grackaroni, this is literally the only thing you've mentioned that you are suspicious about me. Really, this is it? Yet you are voting for me?
Especially when Grackaroni is townreading the current leading wagon, Eversince, for tone, the same read I've talked about at great length.
Does anyone else find this suspicious? Because I certainly do.
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On July 02 2019 15:36 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2019 10:37 Trfel wrote:On July 02 2019 10:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
That's something i can possibly understand. My problem is pretty much the wording because as someone already said the mafia game is old and i don't think there is any reason why ES as mafia couldn't start like last game today. Like i mean the wording since for you also -- as you said, last game you wanted to see if she could play like that as mafia. Why is it not the case now?
Idk if my explanation is clear enoguh. I'm not sure if I fully understand what you are getting at but I'll try... Last game I noticed a difference in Eversince's play to her last mafia game, but I wasn't sure if the difference was caused by a change in alignment or the passage of time, so I didn't think much of it. Then it became clear she was town, leading me to believe that the change in alignment is the primary reason for the posting style difference mentioned previously. Yes, this is an assumption, but I think it's an okay assumption because other reasons also support the townread. In this game, Eversince's play is like her town game last game and different from her mafia game. And moreso, the difference is in a way that is harder to replicate as mafia. I know for me and many others, posting as mafia is difficult, and as a result the posts feel rigid, forced, and dry. Posts tend to be a little longer, more focused and less carefree and spontaneous. This contrast is how I was able to townread Tumblewood early on in a previous game and that townread nearly managed to win the game. Going to remove my townread on Trfels. The bolded phrase seems very definitive and certain that ES is town. (...) On July 02 2019 16:24 Pandain wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2019 16:18 Trfel wrote:On July 02 2019 15:36 Pandain wrote:On July 02 2019 10:37 Trfel wrote:On July 02 2019 10:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:
That's something i can possibly understand. My problem is pretty much the wording because as someone already said the mafia game is old and i don't think there is any reason why ES as mafia couldn't start like last game today. Like i mean the wording since for you also -- as you said, last game you wanted to see if she could play like that as mafia. Why is it not the case now?
Idk if my explanation is clear enoguh. I'm not sure if I fully understand what you are getting at but I'll try... Last game I noticed a difference in Eversince's play to her last mafia game, but I wasn't sure if the difference was caused by a change in alignment or the passage of time, so I didn't think much of it. Then it became clear she was town, leading me to believe that the change in alignment is the primary reason for the posting style difference mentioned previously. Yes, this is an assumption, but I think it's an okay assumption because other reasons also support the townread. In this game, Eversince's play is like her town game last game and different from her mafia game. And moreso, the difference is in a way that is harder to replicate as mafia. I know for me and many others, posting as mafia is difficult, and as a result the posts feel rigid, forced, and dry. Posts tend to be a little longer, more focused and less carefree and spontaneous. This contrast is how I was able to townread Tumblewood early on in a previous game and that townread nearly managed to win the game. Going to remove my townread on Trfels. The bolded phrase seems very definitive and certain that ES is town. Trfels, what do you think about the fact that ES's last mafia game was 4 years ago and she could be playing extremely differently than her previous game? I know my first mafia game this year was completely different than how I used to play mafia back in 2013. Sorry, but what does the bolded section have in relevance to this? It was poorly worded, but what it meant was "after Day 1 when Eversince was obviously town/endgame when alignments were revealed". To answer your question, her mafia game is different from her town play in a way that is difficult to replicate. Some people, a lot of people really, have trouble posting as mafia and have trouble fitting in. As a result, their posts feel more dry and formal, and socially they are more withdrawn; they focus on reads and pushes without truly getting involved or engaging much. It's not as simple as posting more, it's learning to socially engage and interact in a meaningful and relaxed way as mafia, which is really hard to learn and is unlikely to randomly change, even over time (especially without practice). Am I making sense? Oh I'm a bad reader. I thought you were talking about this game. [b]@Pandain[b], I really don't get this progression. Help me understand? You were townreading me, then you went to a slight townread, then you downgraded to null. Sure, whatever. What I don't get is that to explain the slight townread changing to a null, you quoted this post and bolded a phrase, shown above. And then when that turned out to be not what you thought it was, you just left it. So help me explain, how did the quote in question affect your read on me, and when it turned out to be irrelevant why did your read not adjust?
But I do like Pandain's post about Grackaroni. So I'm hesitant on him currently.
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Thanks for explaining, I understand about the pressure vote.
I'm sorry you feel I am nitpicking and being annoying, that isn't my intention. I only questioned two things, I just wanted to make sure your answers were truthful. To me it's significant if someone tries to falsify information to justify their reads and make themselves look better, even if it's over a little thing. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me, but I have quadruple checked it and am pretty sure I am right. I'll let it drop because it's the only thing out of an otherwise decent filter, I'm sorry I'm just trying to understand.
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Jockmcplop/Holyflare/other, any thoughts on Grackaroni? Especially given my post above? Seems inconsistent to me that he would townread Eversince but scumread me for basically no reason.
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On July 03 2019 08:27 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2019 08:09 Trfel wrote:
Thanks for explaining, I understand about the pressure vote.
I'm sorry you feel I am nitpicking and being annoying, that isn't my intention. I only questioned two things, I just wanted to make sure your answers were truthful. To me it's significant if someone tries to falsify information to justify their reads and make themselves look better, even if it's over a little thing. If I am wrong please feel free to correct me, but I have quadruple checked it and am pretty sure I am right. I'll let it drop because it's the only thing out of an otherwise decent filter, I'm sorry I'm just trying to understand. Sorry trfel I'm grumpy cos my housemates are making so much fucking noise in the room next door and I want to sleep at before work GODDAMN THEM. You might be a bit right that it looks like i got the order of events wrong, but i don't think i was really contradicting my logic. Its about the difference in context between "We need to figure out who to lynch fast" and me voting for pandain to get him to answer a question i wanted answering about his vote. Your point would be better if I had tried to start a wagon on Pandain or really tried to get people to lynch him, which I haven't (I have asked a couple of people for opinions on him, that's all) No worries, I'm sorry, I know that feeling Hope you can get some sleep soon. That's no fun
I understand what you are saying, thanks for explaining. I just wanted to make sure.
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On July 03 2019 08:31 Jockmcplop wrote:
I've skimmed grack's filter trfel and besides wanting to lynch you for no apparent reason (that I can see) I don't think it looks like mafia grack.
He didn't exactly townread ES, he just gave her a pass for now if i'm reading it right.
I have absolutely no reason to townread him either yet though. Hm, fair enough, I'll keep thinking about it.. Need to head out now though. Be back tonight.
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I'm back, awake for a little if anyone wants to discuss what to do!
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On July 02 2019 03:42 Pandain wrote:
I'm not disagreeing with you that ES is relaxed, and if she keeps this up for a whole day that's a different story. I would just never make a townread this early based on that. So Pandain, Eversince has kept it up for 3/4 of a day now....
Any comments?
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On July 03 2019 01:09 Eversince wrote:
And I've played with HF a few times over the years. He's stupid good mafia player. If he's town he'll figure things out! Go look at his massive list of games to look. Like he can be wrong but mafia almost always shoot into the vets on this site (HF/Rayn/Marv etc..etc.) @Raynpelikoneet, is the bolded the thing you are using to scumread Eversince?
Because to me, Eversince is saying here that Holyflare is good at mafia as a game, not as an alignment.
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On July 04 2019 03:39 raynpelikoneet wrote:
It's amazing how i once again get scumread because someone else gives a shitty explanation for what they said earlier. no-fucking-one says "he's stupid good mafia player" if "he" just afks and dies as mafia, and when asked for a reference (they were already referring to) there isn't any. If you think someone is stupid good as town and ridiculously bad as mafia you say they are "stupid good town player / stupid good as town".
It's ridiculous how people buy every fucking bullshit someone says just because they make posts.... No one thinks you are mafia for this, I just wanted to better understand your read on Eversince. Sorry it came across wrongly, thanks for explaining.
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I have come to the shocking conclusion that I have absolutely no idea what is happening this game. I'll attempt to rethink everything.
I still think Jockmcplop and raynpelikoneet are town though.
If anyone wants to talk about stuff with me feel free, I'll be busy tomorrow given that it's a holiday but before the next lynch hopefully I'll be slightly less clueless
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What do you think of Holyflare?
I can never read him to save my life, he could convince me to jump off a cliff I want to say he's mafia but that makes me think he is town, he has a habit of being the opposite of what I think...
I haven't really seen a ton of notable (in terms of figuring out his alignment) stuff from him, I just feel like he's started to become really manipulative since the deadline and that scares me. I didn't feel a lot of thread presence/control from him before End of Day, it felt like he kinda let it happen, and then it feels like he's been playing off of guilt ever since (pun not intended). But really I have no clue I'll read his filter and see if my perceptions are correct but I doubt it'll help me much.
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Thanks for sharing your thoughts, Eversince I noticed you'd just discussed it right after I posted. Can I ask what in particular you liked about Holyflare's reasoning?
I went through Holyflare's filter and there's some stuff I don't like but I'm not sure what it means. Need to think more.
Holyflare, why do you think Pandain is town? Or do you still? What do you think about Grackaroni?
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Also, I reread Eversince's filter. I still kinda think she is town but I'm not going to try and save her again, if she is lynched so be it. I accept the possibility that I could be wrong.
The vast majority of her filter is defending herself, which makes a ton of clutter and makes it hard to know what she's actually been doing. But occasionally she has been pushing her own ideas and suggesting things, it feels to me like there's a thought process behind it. I fear I'm underestimating her mafia capabilities though, boredom is a powerful motivation.
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EPT
