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rayn is playing well. Good stuff.
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On May 24 2019 21:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
well not really reading comprehension, sarcasm
That's your defense? There is no way that 'at least I didn't take part in this ML' looks like sarcasm, lol.
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On May 24 2019 21:27 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:23 Jockmcplop wrote:
Sorry for repeating your points hf but I think that last bit is new. I don't think that last point is what makes iGrok mafia. Disformation and myself had doubts on ruxxar for a similar reason IIRC.
Its not just that he townread him for acting confused in a confusing game, its that he went from a scumread, while saying just 13 minutes earlier that he liked bugs' case on ruxxar, to townread for something that might put doubts in your mind as to whether he's scum but doesn't seem like that huge a deal to go from scum to townie in a post or two.
Its not as damning as the timing though. hf is right about the voting thing. That doesn't look good at all. Ruxxar doesn't even mention this once in his response either.
His response to hf this morning was pretty bad in every way as well tbh. There was a bit of 'LOOK AT ME AND THE EFFORT I PUT IN YOU GUYS LIKE THAT RIGHT??' in there, he picked on little things from the case instead of looking at the big points like the voting.
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On May 24 2019 20:53 Holyflare wrote:
Can some Artanis specialist like disfo explain Artanis' read on bugs in some brief timeline like manner and where he stands on bugs now?
not sure what makes me the resident art specialist, but arts filter is not huge so let me give it a shot:
very early game (may 19th) scum reads bugs for a disconnect in one of wbg's posts.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 19 2019 21:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2019 21:40 wherebugsgo wrote:I'm not going to bother explaining myself when I can just boost my own ego by quoting HF's post on me. Y'all can go read that and figure out what my alignment is. + Show Spoiler +although confirmed town is an exaggeration, I think it should be obvious why I consider HF town and rayn not, at least with this amount of info. I also really like how everyone besides HF is arguing on the behalf of rayn and every time rayn posts he makes himself look worse. Let him talk about other things, his defense so far is not getting us anywhere. I dont believe your attitude here is real. I feel a disconnect between the first paragraph and the spoiler. There's like three different contrasting emotions in here and I find it hard to reconcile as anything other than putting up a front. ##vote wherebugsgo
comes back next day (may 20th), starts on bc. checks wbg's filter. says he doesnt understand some things in wbc's filter. interacts with wbg on it. says hes okay with wbgs responses
+ Show Spoiler +On May 20 2019 23:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 23:27 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 20 2019 23:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 20 2019 23:13 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 20 2019 23:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I can't understand WBG's read progressions. On May 20 2019 07:28 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also why are we trying to kill iGrok while he said he’s on a plane?
I think his vote post is strange but it’s equally strange to try to pressure/kill someone who up front said they’re not going to be here for a while. It accomplishes very little and inevitably iGrok will just come back and complain for being voted while afk regardless of alignment. On May 20 2019 07:51 wherebugsgo wrote:
I’m 100% down to kill ruxxar based on that single post alone btw What makes iGrok's vote just weird and RuXxar bad? iGrok's vote is weird because it's singularly based on the role breadcrumbing. I already explained this in detail in a previous post so I'm just going to quote myself: On May 20 2019 16:28 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 20 2019 16:21 Holyflare wrote:On May 20 2019 16:18 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 20 2019 16:18 Holyflare wrote:
Jock I suggest moving away from rayn and forming opinions on other people. Rayn is a big time sink and the only thing that will change his mind is by playing townie. Yeah my previous post says as much. I'm finished with that unless he keeps on at me about it. What do you think of conversion? I think your post has a lot of merit, it's flaky and apologetic when it doesn't need to be. Like it a lot better than whatever people are posting about ruxxar because I don't think ruxxar looks too bad tbh. I don't like how bugs has essentially discounted iGrok and solely talked about VE's points and not mine and then given iGrok an afk excuse pass. If your point on iGrok is that he’s scummy because his only reason for voting rayn was the host thing, then yes, I disagree with that point. Back when I was fairly new to the forum (and iGrok used to play as well) we’d kill people over slips like that and I think there was an impression that it was a fairly effective way to find scum. I think there have been several games in which someone got screwed by role breadcrumbing, to the point where it got banned. I never thought it was a reliable way to catch scum but lots of people disagreed with me, and given iGrok’s tenure I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s in that camp. I’m giving him a pass because I don’t think lynching him has high value prop here. Like I said earlier he really doesn’t look all that different to me than Rels did last game. OTOH several other players look worse to me based on post content, notably ruxxar, disformation, and conversion. On May 20 2019 23:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also On May 20 2019 08:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright I’m officially putting rayn in the ignore pile.
Also I don’t know how anyone can say they are 100% sure on reading Jock either way, especially someone who played last game and witnessed us mislynch him in the presence of virtually identical rhetoric WBG indicates he feels Jock is playing virtually identically to last game. On May 20 2019 14:06 wherebugsgo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 20 2019 13:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Honestly bugs as the person who linked the ruxxar post you jumped on as a vote im not going to "sheep you" hes already on my fucking mafia list for his shit. Fuck, his re entry to this thread is also disgustingly bad since then.
between him and Calix I think we have a guarenteed mafia (possibly 2, not ruling it out).
Disinformation really needs to step it up, but based on day 1 screams scum as of the moment. sorry I actually completely missed the fact that you were on ruxxar even though when I just reread now I remembered those posts. But since we're in agreement let's vote together  I can see some merit for wanting to kill Calix but I also see lots of reasons not to kill Calix. IIRC Calix played similar to this when I was scum and Calix was town about a year ago, even did something similar with that colour shading of names (hands up for any of you calling Calix scum, if you thought that particular detail was scummy) and does not seem to be afraid to put up some resistance here. Calix also I think is an asset if town and I don't want to kill potential assets on d1. Now. I know you all hate Rayn for screaming at the top of his lungs about killing jock. You both have (VE and Bugs) has said nothing strikes you as strange however. After reading https://tl.net/forum/mafia/544405-fibonacci-mafia?user=JockmcplopI am a little suspect. Not going to say hes a priority as of right now, but there is a shot of a real hit based purely on this. I find it unlikely (not impossible) that someone could roll town 3 games in a row and completely change their playstyle 3 games in a row. I don't quite understand what that game has to do with this one. I also don't follow your logic on rolling town 3 games in a row and changing his playstyle 3 games in a row. Here's what's given: 1. We know he changed his playstyle twice already. If anything this just tells us that he's willing to try different things and it's hard to say if this is alignment indicative 2. Last game, he got mislynched because people jumped on him for changing his style and couldn't read him properly, thought he was scum based on him being a bit too abrasive on d1 and not providing any real reads. 3. From the postgame, he admitted he was trying something out and he'll not do that again the next game. I don't remember if he mentioned why he changed his style in the first place, but perhaps he thought that his original approach just didn't work for whatever reason, changed it once, that failed, so now third time's the charm. Collectively our record on meta has been pretty trash so I think there need to be better reasons for wanting to kill Jock than this for me to be convinced. WBG, can you explain in what way his rhetoric is the same yet his playstyle is different? To me, this reads like you're appeasing BC's reasons for his read despite them at the very least somewhat disagreeing your assertion. You then throw shade on your own opinions as well. What's going on here? in the presence of identical rhetoric == what other people are saying about Jock. Last game half the game jumped on his ass almost out of the gate on day 1 because his style changed, and I started seeing elements of that here as well, particularly from rayn. I myself eventually participated in mislynching Jock last game because I ended up not liking Jock's responses to me. So you're stating that whilst Jock's approach to the game is differently, it's the manner in which people respond to him that's the same? I'm not sure how that is a relevant point as it has no relevance on his alignment. How do you feel he's playing this game compared to previous games and why do you feel so solid in townreading him now? it does have relevance on his alignment, because if he's changed his alignment several times and people are saying that's a reason to call him scum, why wouldn't I call that out? I thought that BC was saying that Jock looks scummier for changing his style in this game, for the third time in a row, so I wanted to cut that off because I thought it's a bad argument; I think it's not alignment indicative especially because Jock said in post-game that he was intending on trying out new things again. Granted, BC clarified and said he was just saying he wants to keep Jock on a watchlist for the style change so this really doesn't mean much at this point. I'm confident in townreading him because 1. he caught at least one thing I purposely let go and didn't point out myself to see if others would catch onto the same ideas and 2. based on several things he's said and done in thread it genuinely seems to me like he's trying to figure out the game. I honestly don't really care about comparing Jock's play to past games because I already feel like I can read him from his posts in this game alone. I only use meta when I have a certain hunch about some particular behaviour that a player is exhibiting and I want to figure out whether that lies more often in their town vs scum game. ##UnvoteAnnoyingly I'm satisfied with your posts for today. I'll have to figure out what I'm doing tomorrow. Gonna spend some time with the wife now.
nothing on bugs till the 22nd, where bugs is null
+ Show Spoiler +On May 22 2019 19:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Confirmed town:
Jockmcplop
Town:
Holyflare
Conversion
Koshi
Townish:
Raynpelikoneet
Null:
iGrok
wherebugsgo
Scummish:
Calix
VisceraEyes
Lynch with fire:
The Cobbler
AMA.
interacts a bit with wbg during the 22nd. later that day wbg is maybe scum. wbg also got a thing about artanis stuff on bc wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG.
comes back n1 to waffle off bc and switch to wbg.
main reason for the scumread is how wbg got the above mentioned fact wrong and how wbg reacted to being wrong.
+ Show Spoiler +On May 23 2019 20:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:First, why I'm not as sold on BC anymore. He's significantly dialed down his aggression in general when there's no real reason to and is giving opinions on a lot of things. It's this sequence of posts: Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death.
As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so.
No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm.
Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet.
Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this.
Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting.
As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am.
That leaves everyone else.
There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure.
the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now.
I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside.
Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Bugs. I will fully agree that my first major read on Artanis was after he tunnel dove me and said shit I know is wrong. Your reason for why i was super pissed is right though. I gave him a pass, got shat on by him for giving him that pass, had my filter misinterpreted and shit made up. So I will fully admit I got pissed and tunneled on him.
Now. Do I still think hes mafia? yes, but hes currently the only read I had that I am committed to.
That is also concentrating mainly on the last 24ish hours as well. The content is partially important, but more so is the tone. As mafia there'd be no reason to do anything but keep the focus on me with thread sentiment on his side. He also seems to be working with people to actively try and get a read on them. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 20:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I have already stated when I scum read you and when I upgraded my read. Those are clearly already in thread. So go filter dive me if you want to read them. Even you have to put through the extra work if we are going to solve the game. The tone is just so different from earlier and there was no pressure on him to change, really. All the people accusing him were considered null at best. As for why WBG: Same tone thing, but very differently. When HF accused me of something that was wrong, this was how he replied: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote:On May 22 2019 04:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And HF, explain your read progression on me. You disliked me, read my filter, gave a begrudging townread and now you're scumreading me for something that is wholly false. Eh, yeah, you're pretty correct actually I don't know. I think it's because you're just not around that you kind of fall by the wayside and I'm like "oh, I haven't scum read that guy in a while and nobody else fits, let's call him mafia." Extremely transparent, acknowledges his reasons for reading me were inaccurate and.. that's it. He doesn't arrive at a conclusion immedately because it's not necessary. Contrast that with Bugs regarding me accusing BC: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
why did people say BC OMGUSed artanis when BC scumread artanis first
or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around
ok w/e. Too much thinking.
Makes an incorrect statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE.
I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him.
I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me insteadLastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. Expands on statement, showcases its importance regarding reading me and disfo. Did not check the validity of said statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG. Did you scumread BC before you voted him? Because if you did then I honestly just didn’t remember that, all I remember is that I ignored you for a while since your vote was on me and you were mostly AFK so why would I bother reading you. If you did indeed scumread him before then my apologies, I’m wrong and BC OMGUSed you. Not sure that makes him scum or that his assessment of the situation from his perspective is scummy given that I agreed with it. "Oh I was wrong, but it doesn't change my BC read!" The focus is much more defensive and closed. Then the most recent post made above feels to me like he's trying to stay 'above' the discussion. Get people to guess at his little game to get free townreads.. it doesn't feel like he's critically trying to think of the game, but just filling up space whilst sitting on the sidelines. ##Vote wherebugsgo
d2 he comes back and interacts with wbg once more. admits at the end that maybe his scumread on wbg is bad
+ Show Spoiler +On May 24 2019 06:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 22:06 wherebugsgo wrote:here's my response to Artanis since I was bored. Feel free to ignore this post if you think you will get any of my reads for today, because it contains none. I'm off to bed in a couple of hours and I'll be back in the morning. + Show Spoiler +On May 23 2019 20:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:First, why I'm not as sold on BC anymore. He's significantly dialed down his aggression in general when there's no real reason to and is giving opinions on a lot of things. It's this sequence of posts: Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death.
As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so.
No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm.
Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet.
Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this.
Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting.
As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am.
That leaves everyone else.
There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure.
the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now.
I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside.
Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Bugs. I will fully agree that my first major read on Artanis was after he tunnel dove me and said shit I know is wrong. Your reason for why i was super pissed is right though. I gave him a pass, got shat on by him for giving him that pass, had my filter misinterpreted and shit made up. So I will fully admit I got pissed and tunneled on him.
Now. Do I still think hes mafia? yes, but hes currently the only read I had that I am committed to.
That is also concentrating mainly on the last 24ish hours as well. The content is partially important, but more so is the tone. As mafia there'd be no reason to do anything but keep the focus on me with thread sentiment on his side. He also seems to be working with people to actively try and get a read on them. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 20:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I have already stated when I scum read you and when I upgraded my read. Those are clearly already in thread. So go filter dive me if you want to read them. Even you have to put through the extra work if we are going to solve the game. The tone is just so different from earlier and there was no pressure on him to change, really. All the people accusing him were considered null at best. As for why WBG: Same tone thing, but very differently. When HF accused me of something that was wrong, this was how he replied: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote:On May 22 2019 04:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And HF, explain your read progression on me. You disliked me, read my filter, gave a begrudging townread and now you're scumreading me for something that is wholly false. Eh, yeah, you're pretty correct actually I don't know. I think it's because you're just not around that you kind of fall by the wayside and I'm like "oh, I haven't scum read that guy in a while and nobody else fits, let's call him mafia." Extremely transparent, acknowledges his reasons for reading me were inaccurate and.. that's it. He doesn't arrive at a conclusion immedately because it's not necessary. Contrast that with Bugs regarding me accusing BC: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
why did people say BC OMGUSed artanis when BC scumread artanis first
or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around
ok w/e. Too much thinking.
Makes an incorrect statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE.
I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him.
I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me insteadLastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. Expands on statement, showcases its importance regarding reading me and disfo. Did not check the validity of said statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG. Did you scumread BC before you voted him? Because if you did then I honestly just didn’t remember that, all I remember is that I ignored you for a while since your vote was on me and you were mostly AFK so why would I bother reading you. If you did indeed scumread him before then my apologies, I’m wrong and BC OMGUSed you. Not sure that makes him scum or that his assessment of the situation from his perspective is scummy given that I agreed with it. "Oh I was wrong, but it doesn't change my BC read!" The focus is much more defensive and closed. Then the most recent post made above feels to me like he's trying to stay 'above' the discussion. Get people to guess at his little game to get free townreads.. it doesn't feel like he's critically trying to think of the game, but just filling up space whilst sitting on the sidelines. ##Vote wherebugsgo nice try but too much stretch. You might want to reread what I said, slower this time, and take it at face value rather than assuming I'm scum before reading it. 1. This hinges on me remembering one thing wrong, and then admitting that I was wrong, being a scumtell. Of course that's silly, unless you expect town me to have a photographic memory. All this while I am lying in bed, phoneposting, about to fall asleep, wondering what to think about something weird I remembered. Don't believe me? Check the time stamp. 2.The second post proves I am not lying that my best recollection was that your first read of BC was when you cased him. What proof? The fact that I wrote "before Artanis cased him" when I woke up and again checked the thread. 3. It feels to you like I'm trying to stay above the discussion because I literally said that's my intention. I don't want to be an active participant in the thread today because being an active participant in the thread yesterday was not helpful for me to solidify enough reads, and today I want to see who takes hard stances without me convincing them to take hard stances, cause that's not really a hard stance if it's me convincing them. 1. It's not the admittance that you're wrong being a scumtell, it's how you go about it. Tonal like I said, which was very different from how HF replied. 2. I am not saying you're lying about not remembering. I'm saying that you missing a crucial detail like that when I've been on your case this game already, and BC being one of your top townreads means I find it weird you'd miss it as town, and find it more likely you simply don't care as much because you already know our alignments. 3. I can see it from that angle. Nevertheless, it's an easy strategy to apply as scum. Show nested quote +Lastly, for bonus points, I decided I'd respond to this too: On May 23 2019 04:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 23 2019 04:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 23 2019 04:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I do actually think VE might be town though. Him trying to talk down people on points he thinks are weak on me whilst still scumreading me comes off pretty genuine and I dnu why he wouldn't just pile up on me with thread sentiment against me. Okay who do you think is mafia? WBG maybe? His thread policing without really taking any hard stances himself feels like he's just keeping his options open right now. He's also just pointing out a bunch of things without following up on his thoughts. On May 22 2019 23:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
wait, me, Artanis, and BC all called VE scum...
hmm Okay, what are you doing with this? On May 22 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
why did people say BC OMGUSed artanis when BC scumread artanis first
or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around
ok w/e. Too much thinking.
Was untrue, didn't check and just checked out. I need to dig into him further though. 1. "without really taking any hard stances" <- right, I didn't take any hard stances when I moved mountains at EOD to get four people to sheep me on my read of ruxxar, in order to, you know, get my top scumread lynched. Nor did I take any hard stances when I was literally the only person hard defending both Jock and Calix for a majority of the day. Nor did I take any hard stances when koshi/rayn asked me for a full read of the game, or when I literally posted my spreadsheet for everyone to read. I think perhaps you may also be implying that because I've said, plainly and clearly, that I intend to stay on the sidelines today, that also means I don't intend to take any hard stances today, which is just silly because I never said that: I just said I'm not going to take any new hard stances right now. 2. See prior explanations for not checking, and in addition: Saying "w/e. Too much thinking", while phoneposting, prior to going to sleep is of course a great indication that I have an intention to double check that immediately, rather than let the players who shared the sentiment that BC OMGUSed Artanis check it and either correct me or back me up while I'm asleep. Cause my intention is to do...what exactly? Make myself look scummier? Or perhaps it makes more sense that town me would want help in achieving clarity on this from someone who did share that sentiment, during a period when I know I will not be able to check myself? Okay that last part at EOD I need to check out as I was asleep and never really processed, but if true then my scumread on you is pretty shite. Regarding defending Jock: I'm pretty sure I did that too. Your spreadsheet contained a bunch of percentages that don't mean anything without backing them up. Also if you're following up on things I guess it's fine and fuck this shit game is hard 
next thing he has no scumreads at all so he dropped wbg?
from his last statement very end its not 100% clear if he wants to check something first or if he ever did that.
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I think iGrock is mafia and I'm gonna vote for him.
I hope Artanis does something good tomorrow.
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On May 24 2019 21:29 VisceraEyes wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 24 2019 21:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2019 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At least i didn't read your iGrok case HF. I am sure it is logically sound and can be even good, i just dont believe iGrok does what he did as mafia by eod1.
Factor in iGrok was already under heavy scrutiny for "not doing anything all D1", could mafia iGrok have been like "Surely they'll accept this as an acceptable amount of contribution regardless of its veracity!" maybe, i just dont think THAT is what mafia!iGrok comes up with. You seem pretty sure about it, is there a reason why not THAT specifically? I mean if it's wrong its not like he put a crapload of thought or effort in right?
Can you answer me what's the point of doing that unless Calix is mafia? My opinion is there is no point because with the amount of irl-stuff he has why put so much effort into voting between two townies (HF being mafia with him makes even less sense)?
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On May 24 2019 21:30 Calix wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:27 raynpelikoneet wrote:
well not really reading comprehension, sarcasm That's your defense? There is no way that 'at least I didn't take part in this ML' looks like sarcasm, lol.
good case you should push it.
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On May 24 2019 21:33 Jockmcplop wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:27 Calix wrote:On May 24 2019 21:23 Jockmcplop wrote:
Sorry for repeating your points hf but I think that last bit is new. I don't think that last point is what makes iGrok mafia. Disformation and myself had doubts on ruxxar for a similar reason IIRC. Its not just that he townread him for acting confused in a confusing game, its that he went from a scumread, while saying just 13 minutes earlier that he liked bugs' case on ruxxar, to townread for something that might put doubts in your mind as to whether he's scum but doesn't seem like that huge a deal to go from scum to townie in a post or two. Its not as damning as the timing though. hf is right about the voting thing. That doesn't look good at all. Ruxxar doesn't even mention this once in his response either. His response to hf this morning was pretty bad in every way as well tbh. There was a bit of 'LOOK AT ME AND THE EFFORT I PUT IN YOU GUYS LIKE THAT RIGHT??' in there, he picked on little things from the case instead of looking at the big points like the voting.
Ah okay, I get what you're saying now.
I agree that his response to HF is scummy and doesn't jive with the read he claims to have on HF.
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On May 24 2019 21:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:29 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2019 21:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 24 2019 21:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2019 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At least i didn't read your iGrok case HF. I am sure it is logically sound and can be even good, i just dont believe iGrok does what he did as mafia by eod1.
Factor in iGrok was already under heavy scrutiny for "not doing anything all D1", could mafia iGrok have been like "Surely they'll accept this as an acceptable amount of contribution regardless of its veracity!" maybe, i just dont think THAT is what mafia!iGrok comes up with. You seem pretty sure about it, is there a reason why not THAT specifically? I mean if it's wrong its not like he put a crapload of thought or effort in right? Can you answer me what's the point of doing that unless Calix is mafia? My opinion is there is no point because with the amount of irl-stuff he has why put so much effort into voting between two townies (HF being mafia with him makes even less sense)?
I mean I'm down to Calix mafia at this point anyway so like...no, I can't answer you that and I don't care to because that's about where I'm at. Maybe trying to both pseudo-contribute plus remove shade from Calix. But whatever I get it, you think it's a bit much for mafia iGrok. I would argue that it's a bit much for towniGrok too, so it's NAI, but it's whatever.
Sorry if you already said this, but you're townie on Conversion right?
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On May 24 2019 21:41 raynpelikoneet wrote:
no
How'd I miss that?
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think rayn dislikes conv eod1 where conv was joking around with grok n stuff?
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On May 24 2019 21:42 disformation wrote:
think rayn dislikes conv eod1 where conv was joking around with grok n stuff?
On May 24 2019 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:At least i didn't read your iGrok case HF. I am sure it is logically sound and can be even good, i just dont believe iGrok does what he did as mafia by eod1. Assuming you're town (you probably should do that if you are town) and knowing ruxxar is town there is simply no reason why he should make a stupid propositional calculus "testimony" about HF/ruxxar/Calix, one that is even wrong lol when he can just take a stance between those three players (or rather Calix/ruxxar) and vote for a townie. I say vote for a townie because in my eyes iGrok did that as scum ONLY in case calix is mafia, it's the only scenario that makes sense (even if you were mafia with iGrok it doesn't make sense to me) and in my opinion it definitely shouldn't make sense to you otherwise. I still hate that Conversion participated in that shit and i think it makes him mafia.In addition to what i have said about calix is this: Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 06:44 Calix wrote:
IMO rayn was posting a lot of bullshit. Like the meta thing which literally does not make me anything but which is the basis for his SUPER STRONG scum read, lmao. Or his interactions with Conversion where he somehow missed me saying 'look forward to seeing what you come up with, Conversion' to push a terrible Calix/ Conversion team.
[...]
I'm not gonna go ham on rayn though. It doesn't make sense to kill him today given how the chat's been going and there are better mafia to murder. I don't believe this is what town!Calix does if she is quite certain i am mafia. I also have no idea what the last sentence even is lol... I dont know what Artanis is, could be mafia could be town.
bold by me
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On May 24 2019 21:42 disformation wrote:
think rayn dislikes conv eod1 where conv was joking around with grok n stuff?
I mean that's cool, but he also went through and filtered all the d2 wagons and gave stances - didn't know if that factored in.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On May 24 2019 21:33 disformation wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 20:53 Holyflare wrote:
Can some Artanis specialist like disfo explain Artanis' read on bugs in some brief timeline like manner and where he stands on bugs now? not sure what makes me the resident art specialist, but arts filter is not huge so let me give it a shot: very early game (may 19th) scum reads bugs for a disconnect in one of wbg's posts. + Show Spoiler +On May 19 2019 21:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 19 2019 21:40 wherebugsgo wrote:I'm not going to bother explaining myself when I can just boost my own ego by quoting HF's post on me. Y'all can go read that and figure out what my alignment is. + Show Spoiler +although confirmed town is an exaggeration, I think it should be obvious why I consider HF town and rayn not, at least with this amount of info. I also really like how everyone besides HF is arguing on the behalf of rayn and every time rayn posts he makes himself look worse. Let him talk about other things, his defense so far is not getting us anywhere. I dont believe your attitude here is real. I feel a disconnect between the first paragraph and the spoiler. There's like three different contrasting emotions in here and I find it hard to reconcile as anything other than putting up a front. ##vote wherebugsgo comes back next day (may 20th), starts on bc. checks wbg's filter. says he doesnt understand some things in wbc's filter. interacts with wbg on it. says hes okay with wbgs responses + Show Spoiler +On May 20 2019 23:41 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 20 2019 23:27 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 20 2019 23:19 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 20 2019 23:13 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 20 2019 23:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote:I can't understand WBG's read progressions. On May 20 2019 07:28 wherebugsgo wrote:
Also why are we trying to kill iGrok while he said he’s on a plane?
I think his vote post is strange but it’s equally strange to try to pressure/kill someone who up front said they’re not going to be here for a while. It accomplishes very little and inevitably iGrok will just come back and complain for being voted while afk regardless of alignment. On May 20 2019 07:51 wherebugsgo wrote:
I’m 100% down to kill ruxxar based on that single post alone btw What makes iGrok's vote just weird and RuXxar bad? iGrok's vote is weird because it's singularly based on the role breadcrumbing. I already explained this in detail in a previous post so I'm just going to quote myself: On May 20 2019 16:28 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 20 2019 16:21 Holyflare wrote:On May 20 2019 16:18 Jockmcplop wrote:On May 20 2019 16:18 Holyflare wrote:
Jock I suggest moving away from rayn and forming opinions on other people. Rayn is a big time sink and the only thing that will change his mind is by playing townie. Yeah my previous post says as much. I'm finished with that unless he keeps on at me about it. What do you think of conversion? I think your post has a lot of merit, it's flaky and apologetic when it doesn't need to be. Like it a lot better than whatever people are posting about ruxxar because I don't think ruxxar looks too bad tbh. I don't like how bugs has essentially discounted iGrok and solely talked about VE's points and not mine and then given iGrok an afk excuse pass. If your point on iGrok is that he’s scummy because his only reason for voting rayn was the host thing, then yes, I disagree with that point. Back when I was fairly new to the forum (and iGrok used to play as well) we’d kill people over slips like that and I think there was an impression that it was a fairly effective way to find scum. I think there have been several games in which someone got screwed by role breadcrumbing, to the point where it got banned. I never thought it was a reliable way to catch scum but lots of people disagreed with me, and given iGrok’s tenure I wouldn’t be shocked if he’s in that camp. I’m giving him a pass because I don’t think lynching him has high value prop here. Like I said earlier he really doesn’t look all that different to me than Rels did last game. OTOH several other players look worse to me based on post content, notably ruxxar, disformation, and conversion. On May 20 2019 23:07 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Also On May 20 2019 08:20 wherebugsgo wrote:
alright I’m officially putting rayn in the ignore pile.
Also I don’t know how anyone can say they are 100% sure on reading Jock either way, especially someone who played last game and witnessed us mislynch him in the presence of virtually identical rhetoric WBG indicates he feels Jock is playing virtually identically to last game. On May 20 2019 14:06 wherebugsgo wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On May 20 2019 13:50 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Honestly bugs as the person who linked the ruxxar post you jumped on as a vote im not going to "sheep you" hes already on my fucking mafia list for his shit. Fuck, his re entry to this thread is also disgustingly bad since then.
between him and Calix I think we have a guarenteed mafia (possibly 2, not ruling it out).
Disinformation really needs to step it up, but based on day 1 screams scum as of the moment. sorry I actually completely missed the fact that you were on ruxxar even though when I just reread now I remembered those posts. But since we're in agreement let's vote together I can see some merit for wanting to kill Calix but I also see lots of reasons not to kill Calix. IIRC Calix played similar to this when I was scum and Calix was town about a year ago, even did something similar with that colour shading of names (hands up for any of you calling Calix scum, if you thought that particular detail was scummy) and does not seem to be afraid to put up some resistance here. Calix also I think is an asset if town and I don't want to kill potential assets on d1. Now. I know you all hate Rayn for screaming at the top of his lungs about killing jock. You both have (VE and Bugs) has said nothing strikes you as strange however. After reading https://tl.net/forum/mafia/544405-fibonacci-mafia?user=JockmcplopI am a little suspect. Not going to say hes a priority as of right now, but there is a shot of a real hit based purely on this. I find it unlikely (not impossible) that someone could roll town 3 games in a row and completely change their playstyle 3 games in a row. I don't quite understand what that game has to do with this one. I also don't follow your logic on rolling town 3 games in a row and changing his playstyle 3 games in a row. Here's what's given: 1. We know he changed his playstyle twice already. If anything this just tells us that he's willing to try different things and it's hard to say if this is alignment indicative 2. Last game, he got mislynched because people jumped on him for changing his style and couldn't read him properly, thought he was scum based on him being a bit too abrasive on d1 and not providing any real reads. 3. From the postgame, he admitted he was trying something out and he'll not do that again the next game. I don't remember if he mentioned why he changed his style in the first place, but perhaps he thought that his original approach just didn't work for whatever reason, changed it once, that failed, so now third time's the charm. Collectively our record on meta has been pretty trash so I think there need to be better reasons for wanting to kill Jock than this for me to be convinced. WBG, can you explain in what way his rhetoric is the same yet his playstyle is different? To me, this reads like you're appeasing BC's reasons for his read despite them at the very least somewhat disagreeing your assertion. You then throw shade on your own opinions as well. What's going on here? in the presence of identical rhetoric == what other people are saying about Jock. Last game half the game jumped on his ass almost out of the gate on day 1 because his style changed, and I started seeing elements of that here as well, particularly from rayn. I myself eventually participated in mislynching Jock last game because I ended up not liking Jock's responses to me. So you're stating that whilst Jock's approach to the game is differently, it's the manner in which people respond to him that's the same? I'm not sure how that is a relevant point as it has no relevance on his alignment. How do you feel he's playing this game compared to previous games and why do you feel so solid in townreading him now? it does have relevance on his alignment, because if he's changed his alignment several times and people are saying that's a reason to call him scum, why wouldn't I call that out? I thought that BC was saying that Jock looks scummier for changing his style in this game, for the third time in a row, so I wanted to cut that off because I thought it's a bad argument; I think it's not alignment indicative especially because Jock said in post-game that he was intending on trying out new things again. Granted, BC clarified and said he was just saying he wants to keep Jock on a watchlist for the style change so this really doesn't mean much at this point. I'm confident in townreading him because 1. he caught at least one thing I purposely let go and didn't point out myself to see if others would catch onto the same ideas and 2. based on several things he's said and done in thread it genuinely seems to me like he's trying to figure out the game. I honestly don't really care about comparing Jock's play to past games because I already feel like I can read him from his posts in this game alone. I only use meta when I have a certain hunch about some particular behaviour that a player is exhibiting and I want to figure out whether that lies more often in their town vs scum game. ##UnvoteAnnoyingly I'm satisfied with your posts for today. I'll have to figure out what I'm doing tomorrow. Gonna spend some time with the wife now. nothing on bugs till the 22nd, where bugs is null + Show Spoiler +On May 22 2019 19:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
Confirmed town:
Jockmcplop
Town:
Holyflare
Conversion
Koshi
Townish:
Raynpelikoneet
Null:
iGrok
wherebugsgo
Scummish:
Calix
VisceraEyes
Lynch with fire:
The Cobbler
AMA. interacts a bit with wbg during the 22nd. later that day wbg is maybe scum. wbg also got a thing about artanis stuff on bc wrong. + Show Spoiler +On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG. comes back n1 to waffle off bc and switch to wbg. main reason for the scumread is how wbg got the above mentioned fact wrong and how wbg reacted to being wrong. + Show Spoiler +On May 23 2019 20:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:First, why I'm not as sold on BC anymore. He's significantly dialed down his aggression in general when there's no real reason to and is giving opinions on a lot of things. It's this sequence of posts: Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death.
As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so.
No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm.
Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet.
Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this.
Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting.
As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am.
That leaves everyone else.
There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure.
the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now.
I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside.
Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Bugs. I will fully agree that my first major read on Artanis was after he tunnel dove me and said shit I know is wrong. Your reason for why i was super pissed is right though. I gave him a pass, got shat on by him for giving him that pass, had my filter misinterpreted and shit made up. So I will fully admit I got pissed and tunneled on him.
Now. Do I still think hes mafia? yes, but hes currently the only read I had that I am committed to.
That is also concentrating mainly on the last 24ish hours as well. The content is partially important, but more so is the tone. As mafia there'd be no reason to do anything but keep the focus on me with thread sentiment on his side. He also seems to be working with people to actively try and get a read on them. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 20:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I have already stated when I scum read you and when I upgraded my read. Those are clearly already in thread. So go filter dive me if you want to read them. Even you have to put through the extra work if we are going to solve the game. The tone is just so different from earlier and there was no pressure on him to change, really. All the people accusing him were considered null at best. As for why WBG: Same tone thing, but very differently. When HF accused me of something that was wrong, this was how he replied: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote:On May 22 2019 04:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And HF, explain your read progression on me. You disliked me, read my filter, gave a begrudging townread and now you're scumreading me for something that is wholly false. Eh, yeah, you're pretty correct actually I don't know. I think it's because you're just not around that you kind of fall by the wayside and I'm like "oh, I haven't scum read that guy in a while and nobody else fits, let's call him mafia." Extremely transparent, acknowledges his reasons for reading me were inaccurate and.. that's it. He doesn't arrive at a conclusion immedately because it's not necessary. Contrast that with Bugs regarding me accusing BC: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
why did people say BC OMGUSed artanis when BC scumread artanis first
or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around
ok w/e. Too much thinking.
Makes an incorrect statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE.
I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him.
I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me insteadLastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. Expands on statement, showcases its importance regarding reading me and disfo. Did not check the validity of said statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG. Did you scumread BC before you voted him? Because if you did then I honestly just didn’t remember that, all I remember is that I ignored you for a while since your vote was on me and you were mostly AFK so why would I bother reading you. If you did indeed scumread him before then my apologies, I’m wrong and BC OMGUSed you. Not sure that makes him scum or that his assessment of the situation from his perspective is scummy given that I agreed with it. "Oh I was wrong, but it doesn't change my BC read!" The focus is much more defensive and closed. Then the most recent post made above feels to me like he's trying to stay 'above' the discussion. Get people to guess at his little game to get free townreads.. it doesn't feel like he's critically trying to think of the game, but just filling up space whilst sitting on the sidelines. ##Vote wherebugsgo d2 he comes back and interacts with wbg once more. admits at the end that maybe his scumread on wbg is bad + Show Spoiler +On May 24 2019 06:51 Artanis[Xp] wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 22:06 wherebugsgo wrote:here's my response to Artanis since I was bored. Feel free to ignore this post if you think you will get any of my reads for today, because it contains none. I'm off to bed in a couple of hours and I'll be back in the morning. + Show Spoiler +On May 23 2019 20:56 Artanis[Xp] wrote:First, why I'm not as sold on BC anymore. He's significantly dialed down his aggression in general when there's no real reason to and is giving opinions on a lot of things. It's this sequence of posts: Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:20 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I r back now and fuck, sorry guys. The way Ruxxar was playing I thought the read was right =\ Even if my voted wasn't on him, my read still played a huge part in his death.
As for the newest events of the last 20 pages or so.
No Bugs, after al that has been said and done, I wont be agreeing to kill VE. I voted for him (briefly) for the same reasons I started to lose my read of HF in the last game. Having time to sit back, think, and reflect I just can't kill him atm.
Looking at the thread trying to be impartial again to avoid the tunnel mentality and the adversity from contrary reads VE looks good. and his reasonings for the slight changes between games makes sense. Can't kill him as of yet.
Looking at the thread now, especially during the night phase. I would say this.
Rayn, HF, VE, Koshi (i hate saying this), all look decent and should be where any protective roles we have be sitting.
As much I know that I am on that list because I know that I am 100% town, given that basically no one else thinks so, leave me to potential bullets. Bugs, and I personally would say Jock, basically lives in the same zone that I am.
That leaves everyone else.
There is enough consensus now on Artanis that although the way I got my initial read on him was completely stupid, he has continued to post in a way that I still think is mafia. Plus the people who seem to be playing better than me agree on it so I feel a bit more sure.
the other 2 I feel are scattered between Callix, Igrok, Conversion and Disinformation. Im trying to avoid tunneling like I have been, because I can see that I have been now.
I need to reread Calix and Igrok as through tunneling artanis, ruxxar and disinformation I more or less left them by the wayside.
Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:28 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Bugs. I will fully agree that my first major read on Artanis was after he tunnel dove me and said shit I know is wrong. Your reason for why i was super pissed is right though. I gave him a pass, got shat on by him for giving him that pass, had my filter misinterpreted and shit made up. So I will fully admit I got pissed and tunneled on him.
Now. Do I still think hes mafia? yes, but hes currently the only read I had that I am committed to.
That is also concentrating mainly on the last 24ish hours as well. The content is partially important, but more so is the tone. As mafia there'd be no reason to do anything but keep the focus on me with thread sentiment on his side. He also seems to be working with people to actively try and get a read on them. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 20:31 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
I have already stated when I scum read you and when I upgraded my read. Those are clearly already in thread. So go filter dive me if you want to read them. Even you have to put through the extra work if we are going to solve the game. The tone is just so different from earlier and there was no pressure on him to change, really. All the people accusing him were considered null at best. As for why WBG: Same tone thing, but very differently. When HF accused me of something that was wrong, this was how he replied: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 04:20 Holyflare wrote:On May 22 2019 04:16 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
And HF, explain your read progression on me. You disliked me, read my filter, gave a begrudging townread and now you're scumreading me for something that is wholly false. Eh, yeah, you're pretty correct actually I don't know. I think it's because you're just not around that you kind of fall by the wayside and I'm like "oh, I haven't scum read that guy in a while and nobody else fits, let's call him mafia." Extremely transparent, acknowledges his reasons for reading me were inaccurate and.. that's it. He doesn't arrive at a conclusion immedately because it's not necessary. Contrast that with Bugs regarding me accusing BC: Show nested quote +On May 22 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
why did people say BC OMGUSed artanis when BC scumread artanis first
or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around
ok w/e. Too much thinking.
Makes an incorrect statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE.
I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him.
I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me insteadLastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. Expands on statement, showcases its importance regarding reading me and disfo. Did not check the validity of said statement. Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 07:26 wherebugsgo wrote:On May 23 2019 07:20 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 23 2019 07:16 wherebugsgo wrote:On BC reading Artanis as scum before Artanis cased him, look: On May 21 2019 21:08 BloodyC0bbler wrote:
Fuck. I need to sleep.
Currently Voting for VE. Although I may be seeing ghosts so I need to think on it a bit / re read his filter.
If hes not who we decide to lynch.
At this point id still be down for
Artanis
Disinformation
Ruxxar.
I will clearly update / reevaluate based on whatever is posted while im gone but those 4 would be my preferred lynch priorities
He literally lists Artanis as the FIRST choice before disfo/ruxxar, after just saying he is confused about VE. I can totally get him reacting very strongly to Artanis then jumping on a vote on him. I’m actually deducting town points from both disformation and Artanis for not correctly reading this and using it as an opportunity to scum me instead Lastly, on the disappearing thing: go ahead and look at the times I’m absent from the thread. It is 7 am here in Japan. I referred to ruxxar disappearing on multiple occasions after myself or other players would direct messages at him shortly after he posted in the thread. These are different types of disappearances, and that both rayn and disformation are trying to scum me for it is highly suspicious. Well, I guess not on rayn’s part because rayn just has a hard-on for calling me stupid and twisting everything I say in that direction. I didn't know May 21 2019 21:08 was before May 20 2019 22:22 in your calendar, WBG. Did you scumread BC before you voted him? Because if you did then I honestly just didn’t remember that, all I remember is that I ignored you for a while since your vote was on me and you were mostly AFK so why would I bother reading you. If you did indeed scumread him before then my apologies, I’m wrong and BC OMGUSed you. Not sure that makes him scum or that his assessment of the situation from his perspective is scummy given that I agreed with it. "Oh I was wrong, but it doesn't change my BC read!" The focus is much more defensive and closed. Then the most recent post made above feels to me like he's trying to stay 'above' the discussion. Get people to guess at his little game to get free townreads.. it doesn't feel like he's critically trying to think of the game, but just filling up space whilst sitting on the sidelines. ##Vote wherebugsgo nice try but too much stretch. You might want to reread what I said, slower this time, and take it at face value rather than assuming I'm scum before reading it. 1. This hinges on me remembering one thing wrong, and then admitting that I was wrong, being a scumtell. Of course that's silly, unless you expect town me to have a photographic memory. All this while I am lying in bed, phoneposting, about to fall asleep, wondering what to think about something weird I remembered. Don't believe me? Check the time stamp. 2.The second post proves I am not lying that my best recollection was that your first read of BC was when you cased him. What proof? The fact that I wrote "before Artanis cased him" when I woke up and again checked the thread. 3. It feels to you like I'm trying to stay above the discussion because I literally said that's my intention. I don't want to be an active participant in the thread today because being an active participant in the thread yesterday was not helpful for me to solidify enough reads, and today I want to see who takes hard stances without me convincing them to take hard stances, cause that's not really a hard stance if it's me convincing them. 1. It's not the admittance that you're wrong being a scumtell, it's how you go about it. Tonal like I said, which was very different from how HF replied. 2. I am not saying you're lying about not remembering. I'm saying that you missing a crucial detail like that when I've been on your case this game already, and BC being one of your top townreads means I find it weird you'd miss it as town, and find it more likely you simply don't care as much because you already know our alignments. 3. I can see it from that angle. Nevertheless, it's an easy strategy to apply as scum. Show nested quote +Lastly, for bonus points, I decided I'd respond to this too: On May 23 2019 04:46 Artanis[Xp] wrote:On May 23 2019 04:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 23 2019 04:09 Artanis[Xp] wrote:
I do actually think VE might be town though. Him trying to talk down people on points he thinks are weak on me whilst still scumreading me comes off pretty genuine and I dnu why he wouldn't just pile up on me with thread sentiment against me. Okay who do you think is mafia? WBG maybe? His thread policing without really taking any hard stances himself feels like he's just keeping his options open right now. He's also just pointing out a bunch of things without following up on his thoughts. On May 22 2019 23:42 wherebugsgo wrote:
wait, me, Artanis, and BC all called VE scum...
hmm Okay, what are you doing with this? On May 22 2019 23:48 wherebugsgo wrote:
why did people say BC OMGUSed artanis when BC scumread artanis first
or at least I feel like I remember that sentiment was thrown around
ok w/e. Too much thinking.
Was untrue, didn't check and just checked out. I need to dig into him further though. 1. "without really taking any hard stances" <- right, I didn't take any hard stances when I moved mountains at EOD to get four people to sheep me on my read of ruxxar, in order to, you know, get my top scumread lynched. Nor did I take any hard stances when I was literally the only person hard defending both Jock and Calix for a majority of the day. Nor did I take any hard stances when koshi/rayn asked me for a full read of the game, or when I literally posted my spreadsheet for everyone to read. I think perhaps you may also be implying that because I've said, plainly and clearly, that I intend to stay on the sidelines today, that also means I don't intend to take any hard stances today, which is just silly because I never said that: I just said I'm not going to take any new hard stances right now. 2. See prior explanations for not checking, and in addition: Saying "w/e. Too much thinking", while phoneposting, prior to going to sleep is of course a great indication that I have an intention to double check that immediately, rather than let the players who shared the sentiment that BC OMGUSed Artanis check it and either correct me or back me up while I'm asleep. Cause my intention is to do...what exactly? Make myself look scummier? Or perhaps it makes more sense that town me would want help in achieving clarity on this from someone who did share that sentiment, during a period when I know I will not be able to check myself? Okay that last part at EOD I need to check out as I was asleep and never really processed, but if true then my scumread on you is pretty shite. Regarding defending Jock: I'm pretty sure I did that too. Your spreadsheet contained a bunch of percentages that don't mean anything without backing them up. Also if you're following up on things I guess it's fine and fuck this shit game is hard next thing he has no scumreads at all so he dropped wbg? from his last statement very end its not 100% clear if he wants to check something first or if he ever did that.
So, just so I'm clear Artanis scum read WBG at the end of this for his RESPONSE to being wrong but then doesn't think WBG is mafia because WBG said he PUSHED FOR RUXXAR only eliminating half of Artanis' original scum read (that he wasn't pushing people).
Looks a bit shit when WBG has said he's playing intentionally afk today as well so Artanis isn't exactly wrong on that point today and just backs off of it.
Hmmm. Bad.
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United Kingdom30774 Posts
On May 24 2019 21:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:29 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2019 21:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 24 2019 21:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2019 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At least i didn't read your iGrok case HF. I am sure it is logically sound and can be even good, i just dont believe iGrok does what he did as mafia by eod1.
Factor in iGrok was already under heavy scrutiny for "not doing anything all D1", could mafia iGrok have been like "Surely they'll accept this as an acceptable amount of contribution regardless of its veracity!" maybe, i just dont think THAT is what mafia!iGrok comes up with. You seem pretty sure about it, is there a reason why not THAT specifically? I mean if it's wrong its not like he put a crapload of thought or effort in right? Can you answer me what's the point of doing that unless Calix is mafia? My opinion is there is no point because with the amount of irl-stuff he has why put so much effort into voting between two townies (HF being mafia with him makes even less sense)?
but... you think calix is mafia.............?
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omg rayn isn't even reading anymore
Oh well that's cool, hopefully he does.
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RAYN LOOK AT MY SIG AND TELL ME MAFIA WROTE THAT ABOUT ME THIS GAME!
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VE:
On May 22 2019 21:38 raynpelikoneet wrote:
here is what conversion did last night:
iGrok has his stupid (sorry man it was stupid) propositional calculus case.
Conv says he has read iGrok's post, and says he will go read HF and Calix
Instead of reading HF and Calix he takes part into "proving" iGrok's "case"
Then he ends up reading ruxxar and votes for him.
On May 22 2019 23:30 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am not honestly too interested in Artanis atm, Calix and then probably Conversion need to die, then figure out which one of BC/Artanis/iGrok is mafia.
On May 23 2019 23:02 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 22:55 Conversion wrote:
I also did not call VE mafia, not sure where you're getting that from. I was specifically responding to Calix asking me about the VE/Artanis/BC/Calix stuff, and I was saying that if there was mafia in the 4, I can narrow it to three because I believe Calix is town.
I got it from this post: Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 22:36 Conversion wrote:On May 23 2019 22:29 Calix wrote:
I also agree that Conversion's post reads as extremely townie for his frustration over his efforts largely being ignored...as opposed to him being okay that most people don't really care about him. The latter IS an ideal situation for mafia, after all.
Don't think it's helpful to discuss this 'game' or whatever though. Conversion, have disformation/ Koshi done anything to change your reads of them? And what do you make of the whole BC/ VE/ Calix/ Artanis situation? [...] On the opinion on BC/VE/Calix/Artanis, I'm inclined to believe there is scum in there. If I'm going by my current reads (I honestly think you are town, not sure where this Calix mafia stuff is coming from), it'd be BC/VE/Artanis, so they'll be my focus today. Because your answer is very subtle. If you don't think one or more of those people are mafia, then idk why you word your post like this. I mean: Calix: what do you make of the whole BC/ VE/ Calix/ Artanis situation? Conv: I'm inclined to believe there is scum in there. If I'm going by my current reads it'd be BC/VE/Artanis. I dont think this looks natural at all, regardless of what you think about Calix.
On May 23 2019 23:10 raynpelikoneet wrote:
reiteratating:
she asks you for reads
you say basically nothing
everyone lives happily ever after
On May 23 2019 22:50 raynpelikoneet wrote:Show nested quote +On May 23 2019 22:15 Conversion wrote:On May 23 2019 21:00 Holyflare wrote:On May 23 2019 18:49 Koshi wrote:
Can somebody explain to me why the thread now thibks conversion is mafia? I saw rayn put it in the thread and after that he dropped on both HF and VE townlist by more than he should. I don't think he's dropped through actions really, just by poe and the fact I've not entirely liked what he's been up to. He has no focus on me which is something I think he'd be doing as town (afraid as mafia maybe? Bit of a stretch) and he's kind of in a weird tangential place not playing the same game as other people. I'm just gonna address this here and now, whether that's for you or anyone else: I am ignoring everyone that doesn't do anything memorable to me, and I'm spending like the maximum that I can on this game without going insane, because in the past when I tried my hardest I'd just get flamed and that usually devolved into shitfights with people. It almost happened with Jock this game (sorry for being a flamer Jock!). also doesn't help that when I case something people barely have opinions on it and don't engage me. They just tell me I'm doing well, or that I'm wrong, and that's it. I'm not going to flame people to get my opinions heard, and if people aren't going to engage me on shit (especially when I thought I made two good cases and there was like 3 responses to it), it just demotivates me from my game. In fact, the only one who really engaged me this entire game are like Bugs, Calix, and Jock-- which is why I'm inclined to believe they are town rather than every one speaking around me like I don't exist tl;dr I don't want to play like I normally do (flaming everyone that scumreads me, flaming my scumreads, modkilling myself because I'm pissed off), but damn is it demotivating to have people just speak around you I tried reading your case on Koshi but i stopped because i felt like it didn't really go anywhere. Can you summarize some key points in it if you want to be listened? It's not like mafia slips in every post of theirs and i dont really understand why you focus so much on his meta when i think his meta this game clearly says he is town. I also have no idea why you participated that dumb iGrok thing D1. It was dumb and i think you should know that. I also don't know why you scumread VE because regardless of what VE ever wrote or what you wrote on him he is like Conversion just 5 years earlier and i think you should recognize same town!attributes (that i agree are not uselful but most people still do them) you just described you don't want to get into yourself in this game.
On May 24 2019 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:At least i didn't read your iGrok case HF. I am sure it is logically sound and can be even good, i just dont believe iGrok does what he did as mafia by eod1. Assuming you're town (you probably should do that if you are town) and knowing ruxxar is town there is simply no reason why he should make a stupid propositional calculus "testimony" about HF/ruxxar/Calix, one that is even wrong lol when he can just take a stance between those three players (or rather Calix/ruxxar) and vote for a townie. I say vote for a townie because in my eyes iGrok did that as scum ONLY in case calix is mafia, it's the only scenario that makes sense (even if you were mafia with iGrok it doesn't make sense to me) and in my opinion it definitely shouldn't make sense to you otherwise. I still hate that Conversion participated in that shit and i think it makes him mafia. In addition to what i have said about calix is this: Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 06:44 Calix wrote:
IMO rayn was posting a lot of bullshit. Like the meta thing which literally does not make me anything but which is the basis for his SUPER STRONG scum read, lmao. Or his interactions with Conversion where he somehow missed me saying 'look forward to seeing what you come up with, Conversion' to push a terrible Calix/ Conversion team.
[...]
I'm not gonna go ham on rayn though. It doesn't make sense to kill him today given how the chat's been going and there are better mafia to murder. I don't believe this is what town!Calix does if she is quite certain i am mafia. I also have no idea what the last sentence even is lol... I dont know what Artanis is, could be mafia could be town.
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On May 24 2019 21:44 Holyflare wrote:Show nested quote +On May 24 2019 21:34 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 24 2019 21:29 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2019 21:24 raynpelikoneet wrote:On May 24 2019 21:11 VisceraEyes wrote:On May 24 2019 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:
At least i didn't read your iGrok case HF. I am sure it is logically sound and can be even good, i just dont believe iGrok does what he did as mafia by eod1.
Factor in iGrok was already under heavy scrutiny for "not doing anything all D1", could mafia iGrok have been like "Surely they'll accept this as an acceptable amount of contribution regardless of its veracity!" maybe, i just dont think THAT is what mafia!iGrok comes up with. You seem pretty sure about it, is there a reason why not THAT specifically? I mean if it's wrong its not like he put a crapload of thought or effort in right? Can you answer me what's the point of doing that unless Calix is mafia? My opinion is there is no point because with the amount of irl-stuff he has why put so much effort into voting between two townies (HF being mafia with him makes even less sense)? but... you think calix is mafia.............?
are you stupid? no, why are you being stupid? like wtf this is not how it works.
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EPT
