EPTtl.net aka #2565
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
tl.net aka #2565 | ||
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wherebugsgo
Japan10647 Posts
1. Artanis attacked me for getting a supposedly easily fact-checkable thing wrong about who between he and BC accused the other first. 2. Artanis said I took no hard stances which implies he doesn’t know how ruxxar died and how Calix lived. Or, for that matter, which players took hard stances on Jock before Jock basically became confirmed. My game on #2495 is still open to play  however both of my (almost) confirmed town reads have basically won it already. | ||
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This post contains only facts and no reads. 1. Artanis attacked me for getting a supposedly easily fact-checkable thing wrong about who between he and BC accused the other first. 2. Artanis said I took no hard stances which implies he doesn’t know how ruxxar died and how Calix lived. Or, for that matter, which players took hard stances on Jock before Jock basically became confirmed. My game on #2565 is still open to play however both of my (almost) confirmed town reads have basically won it already. | ||
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On May 24 2019 07:16 disformation wrote: which post? guess you mean the one by art. also pretty easy guess that the one player of calix/grok/art you think is scum is art. with the two outlandish ones im not sure. just for being outlandishish id say like hf/koshi? dunno man. though that would maybe explain why this game is this wild? “This post” = the one I just posted. “Artanis said” = post where he cases (?) me. 2495 meant 2565, the game I’m hosting within this game. I will make an addendum to the game and say that after my previous post I have added an additional player who I think may fit the criteria, but it wasn’t true/obvious until recently. And it also changes the number of people who might be involved in today’s lynch from 1 to 2. | ||
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On May 24 2019 07:31 disformation wrote: also was pretty recent. -.- might have fucked up my reads. -.- aight. think i want to look at the game for real tomorrow. might be more productive than me looking at filters n shit. Three more fact additions. You are actually one of the four players who fit my criteria, and I believe neither HF nor Koshi fit. Remember that I don’t know entirely how I feel about my little game yet, though I will admit in your case the rest of my evidence not based on my little game points me in the exact opposite direction. | ||
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On May 24 2019 01:21 Jockmcplop wrote: Like I'm trying to find reads you've made on people that aren't 100% waffle and there's a few but not many. The main reason I started looking into this is because this is as far as I got with my spreadsheet yesterday: ![[image loading]](https://i.ibb.co/frX3hDW/mafia.jpg) swap columns B and K for me. While you’re at it, you can shade in B as solid green. | ||
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Also I felt a lot of deja vu reading your response to Jock and me calling you out for surface level things last game. I realized I was getting very close to calling you scum yesterday for the exact same reasons I called you scum last game (and I believe you noted this during the night, you know the post I'm talking about even if I don't point it out explicitly), and then I held my tongue because of the way you actually agreed with my assessment but flipped town anyway LOL. | ||
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On May 24 2019 10:53 Holyflare wrote: I have literally no idea what your little game is in those two posts but I don't think I really care either? I'm just going to put the effort in to people's filters and figure this out for myself now that I have the time. Half the people in the game are literally afk and leaving it stale, you included really. Disfo/Conversion/Jock are like MVPs for today and I don't think I'd ever vote them for the rest of the game. Chuck VE in there too and they are my new town circle. Everyone else is fair game in my books now. Starting a clean slate. It's fine, if you don't have the time for it now I'll end up explaining it all later today anyway. You can put the pieces together at that point by reading my filter once rather than multiple times so it'll save you some effort. I'm AFK on purpose, and honestly I'm very happy with it because I'm way less tilted and I feel very confident that this game is on lock right now. Your town circle basically my town circle and it should be obvious after reading my posts where we differ. That's really why I want you to listen to what I'm saying and come to your own conclusions before I explain myself, and also get back to me on rayn/Koshi because I believe I'm seeing more to the day 1 vote business. I fully believe we're seeing the same picture, just different parts of it, and I don't want to heavily influence your opinions before I hear them. | ||
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On May 24 2019 11:01 Holyflare wrote: Is it some old vet thing to for some reason not play open handed and actually reveal your reads or some shit? Seems like really bad practice to me, just say what you mean and we'd all be in a better place. I think it was far more common back in the day among the players I consider really really really good at town. Like, the top two townies I've ever played with, in my opinion, are Foolishness and Radfield, and Foolishness posts so little that he often becomes lynchbait. I talked with him before because I wanted to learn his philosophy and how he's so good, and so confident when he has a read, and IIRC he told me about how he wouldn't push his ideas until he'd had a lot of time to read, and because he often couldn't tell by EOD1 he'd just sit back and wait and watch interactions. Eagle-eyed townies would be able to engage with him (because he'd channel Chezinu sometimes, and observant townies could tell, I guess, he's on their side) and if scum didn't kill him N1 he'd often have at least one certain read on d2. I struggle with this because unlike Foolishness my scum game has a reputation for being good (and my town game, rightly, a reputation for being ass), and people think my style is very unique so they'll lynch me if I don't play actively. When I play town I value being viewed as innocent and not getting lynched way more than I value finding scum. This is also why I've smurfed so damn much; I've made so many smurfs that I've forgotten some of their names and emails, but basically I smurf to try and emulate different playstyles and see how they work for me without getting lynched for playing out of band. | ||
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I noticed that when I play scum I have an irrational fear of being vigged but absolutely no fear of being lynched. Then when I get lynched I end up reactionarily blaming my teammates because I couldn't carry them, even in situations where I probably screwed up interacting with them in a subtle way or I suggested a weird NK because I'm whacky and I don't believe NK choices are all that important when playing scum. However I think I've been vigged/SK killed like 2-3 times, at least once by a person I thought was a shitter and once in a game called Responsibility Mafia that I'll never forget where I got shot by a "spam vigi" and raged about 1. how subjective that is for the hosts to be the final determiners and 2. how many god damn KP town had in postgame. OTOH as town I don't have any fear of being vigged at all but I have a supreme fear of being lynched for whatever reason. I think I've been vigged once when I was a JK on N1, I only remember because of how rarely I roll blue roles. I think I've been lynched once or twice for dumb reasons and I got into arguments with Palmar about how I don't believe that being lynched is always 100% without a doubt the fault of the person being lynched. Anyway none of this probably means anything but maybe that gives you more insight on my philosophy of the way I play. | ||
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On May 24 2019 11:20 VisceraEyes wrote: Bugs if you spent 3 posts and 7 paragraphs self-reflecting on your own play as mafia, I'll eat my hat. was it you or someone else I told I sort of irrationally hate playing scum after some of the setups I've been dropped into like I swear some of the luck I've gotten when rolling scum is just... Space Station Mafia -> there were 16 (??) blues or items or whatever? And it was a PM game where sandro coordinated DT checks. And, in order for my team (mafia) to use the items or whatever, IIRC, we had to give up KP. And it's not like we could lie about things we did either because we'd be steadily confirming townies or having to bus each other. I think literally the best scenario possible after d1 was for us to kill 2 townies and for only one scum to be vigged/DTed. Pretty sure the worst case was for all 6 of us to die n2, I think it was pretty close and we lost the game d3 or n3. And then DrH wouldn't admit that the setup was broken as hell and basically claimed that if he were in my situation he would've done better lol Then responsibility mafia and the vigis And then I rolled mafia with RoL twice or maybe three times and he would ignore literally any suggestions I had in QT, even when I told him I believed 100% by continuing what he was doing he'd get us both killed. Sure enough both times we got lynched LOL. I think one was team melee and the other was Storm Mafia or something like that | ||
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No I played in resurrection though and you made me some sort of priest, and I hounded scum Jackal. I think with sandroba leading we solved the game really fast, bum and ON were scum too I think? And I called town Ace a noob even though it was my second game LOL. What’s crazy is that game was not full alignment reveal on permanent death right. That actually made it really really interesting idk how I somehow got 50 billion times worse at town after that game though, maybe just beginner’s luck Like the first two times I played mafia on this forum I rolled blue and basically only that JK game ever since I think. | ||
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Lolololololol | ||
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On May 24 2019 15:27 iGrok wrote: Ok, so first, rebutting HF's nonsense. ##vote HF So he starts with my fake vote on rayne. I am literally not allowed to discuss that, sorry. HF will continue, throughout his entire takedown piece, bring up my initial rux/diso statement, even when I change my read after reading more. -I'm pretty sure HF doesn't understand the concept of -not tunnelling-, or (as I really think) he's scum. Or both Then he posts my "read" of Calix. The thing about my "reads" is that unlike most people, I'm not making a case. I give my thoughts. a lot is lost when I copy/paste. I'll include a picture of the map, with colors etc + Show Spoiler [blue doesn't mean blue, mafia.…] + ![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/zCs9KrG.png) Next, HF quotes the same post twice, somehow thinking he's trapped me by making me work after I said I was time limited. This is just... bad. HF is very upset that I called him dumbtown. Honestly, I shouldn't have called Calix potentially dumbtown. I was a little frustrated that I hadn't caught that, if I had more time to focus then maybe I wouldn't have been frustrated. HF also apparently doesn't understand what its like to not just tunnel someone. I hope that one day, I can be like as HF and have 100% confidence that I am always right the first time, every time. Finally, concludes with accusing me of being mafia because I'm not in the thread. The "Where's his head at?" made me laugh. For all his filter diving of me, he still can't tell that I'M AT A FUCKING 12 HOUR/DAY INTENSIVE SEMINAR FOR WORK. As I've said. Multiple times. And no one else seems to have an issue figuring that out. Also, yeah the best vets were basically day 2 monsters. The meta now seems to be to Tunnel someone until they crack, and spam the shit out of the thread, but back then that was the rare exception (Palmar for example). I'm nowhere near as good as foolishness, radfield, Ace, Dr.H etc - but I think a lot of people then wanted to emulate their playstyle. I haven't played in a while, and my plan for any game where I don't know a lot of the players is to be as open as I can, and just convince them I'm town. I believe day 1 is mostly just about stirring shit up, read generation as I said before. Unfortunately I'm not allowed to talk about what my plan was day 1, and I literally can't say more than that. But yeah, none of this was for HF, this is for everyone else. Now, I've got 1 more day of seminar, and then a red-eye flight home. I'll still be reading, and commenting occasionally, but please don't fuck this up. Also, Conversion if I see you in LA, remember, no talking about the ongoing game + Show Spoiler + so like, let's say you're town right, and you've done all this effort to make these graphs and notes and whatnot, which I think none of us can read because it's too blurry but I can believe that if you're town you've done lots of stuff away from thread. but at the same time you've done all this scummy stuff which HF has pointed it out, and I'm mostly in agreement with it being really bad, especially your EOD business where you listed 3 pairs of players: ruxx and Calix ruxx and HF HF and Calix and said for some reason each of those pairs has at most 1 scum but you townread ruxxar (maybe?? I really didn't understand the logic) and thus HF is the scum and wasted your vote (??) Like first of all, that didn't make any sense. But second of all, as far as I can tell your read on Calix didn't change and you knew you'd never get HF lynched, you even said that yourself. So why did you let your townread ruxxar die instead of killing Calix who by your own logic was still scummy? Like that's the key here, you have to explain why you said you'd never get HF lynched yet you still voted him and in the process you let a townread get lynched over Calix. You were around for the flip too because you told me off right after. Why wouldn't you either switch your vote back when it was clear no one was agreeing with or understanding you, or try an alternate approach to convincing me that HF was scum? Lastly you type this rebuttal and vote HF but there is no explanation for why HF is scum and not just a tunneled or incorrect townie. It's just "he's tunneling me and wrong therefore he's scum" which is honestly not a very convincing argument. And actually your language waffles between implying that he's tunneled town and scum and looks like you just did a poor job of hiding TMI, but maybe I'm reading too much into that. It's not like pure effort on the basis of your notes and stuff exonerates you here either even though it looks townie to me because literally every player in the game has put in a good amount of effort in some capacity, even if it's pure posting volume like rayn/koshi, besides perhaps BC/Artanis and the townie who I got lynched yesterday. | ||
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On May 24 2019 22:08 VisceraEyes wrote: Bro I've never called HF mafia and he called me mafia. I've similarly never been red on Bugs. On May 19 2019 21:48 VisceraEyes wrote: ##Vote: wherebugsgo | ||
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On May 24 2019 16:19 Jockmcplop wrote: Bugs if ur still here I have a question about hf. You said that in the last game you scumread hf in a similar way to how I did yesterday. On reflection, would you say that hf delibreately put you in that position? I mean if we're to read into this what he wants us to he infers he's using that to confirm townies. I don't exactly see how scum hf couldn't act in exactly the same way though. If you’re not jock and you expect reads in this post, nope none here keep moving. However if you’re confused on my alignment and want more of my thoughts read on if you wish. + Show Spoiler + So he was town last game and the answer to “did HF deliberately put me in a position where I would scumread him” is idk, but I kinda felt like regardless of my own alignment I would have called him out there. (If I were scum I’d probably have RB-hit him n1 though) Like he did fake claim just to reaction fish which on its own I found weird, but then afterward he just kept looking worse, I disagreed with reads that I thought he should obviously nail, like still scumming Pandain for old, holdover reasons from d1 and HF was ignoring perfectly good info from Pandain that indicated he was town. Maybe he read too much into rayn dying after posting 3/4 townies as scum, idk. and there was a very rare confluence of events that I think might never happen again, like HF actually being a vet and then scumming me on the host question, me VE and BC all agreeing on him, etc. etc. etc. In the absence of all that garbage my initial read on HF was town and here he is not playing super out of band to his d1 last game. I also know his situation now as far as posting quality/amount so that’s no longer alignment indicative. HF this game should be judged on the basis of 1. his reads (note who he put in his bottom 4- (Not sure if I remember the most updated version though) if both iGrok and Calix are town the chances of HF being scum jump a lot, esp if he doesn’t use the rest of today to evaluate all his other reads, since he has more time today and iGrok is as good as dead at this point. None of VE/rayn/Koshi seem to be doing any actual pushing of Calix today either, so that’s something to be on the look for. However at this moment there is not much to do IMO other than observe or ask questions if you have doubts because the lines in the sand have been drawn. | ||
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On May 24 2019 22:54 Holyflare wrote: + Show Spoiler + You are all grown up people and can make a decision on whether or not Calix and iGrok are mafia yourselves based on the facts put forward and their responses, nothing to do with my alignment if I am correct or wrong either, just push what you think is the most valid case in all of the game to make someone mafia and hope. + Show Spoiler + I agree. Keep doing your thing. I don’t intend to move my vote but I do intend to keep observing. I think iGrok is a pretty beaten, dead horse now though. As long as he’s not here to defend himself let’s move on to other things. | ||
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The question was, why would scum iGrok spend so much time deciding between two townies at EOD. The implied answer is that he would never do this. Important fact #1: until two hours before deadline, iGrok had never put a vote in the voting thread. With that important context, the actual answer is that if he is scum, he may not want to be incriminated for a last minute vote on someone who is about to flip town. Therefore he wasted his vote because it guaranteed he wouldn’t be on the leading wagon (when both wagons were close enough at the time he voted for his vote to influence which wagon succeeded) You could say that as scum he could not predict which wagon would succeed and thus to what extent he felt he’d look bad. This is corroborated by the fact that he, immediately following the lynch, told me off for lynching his townread despite wasting his vote and not actually doing anything to prevent it. As town the only motivation that makes sense here is that iGrok made an extremely suboptimal, anti-town play. In this case it’s better to not assume he’s an idiot and just lynch him for the scum motivation because he’s played mafia long enough to not do something that colossally bad as town. | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:17 Calix wrote: That characterisation of my D2 play only applies to this RL day and is not true. I spent yesterday arguing with BC and VE until I changed my mind on them being mafia. I'm not sure why you expect everyone to be SUPER ACTIVE and CONTRIBUTING when there's not a lot to be said. Ever since I dropped two scum-reads, I've seen very little from the thread that would be useful to finding mafia. Also everyone thinks I'm mafia by POE or something. Yet nobody has bothered to case me so there's nothing for me to counter, lol. Someone go into my filter and say why I'm supposedly mafia, will ya? READS TOWN: Conversion, disformation, Jock, WBG, HF. I've already explained these reads, pretty sure, and none of these town reads are RADICAL anyway. For people who don't know why I town-read HF, consider that we've had similar opinions for PRETTY MUCH THE ENTIRE GAME. If he's mafia then I am playing so horribly right now but I doubt it. NULL: Artanis: As per my previous posts, I think he made some decent posts early on but his WBG push was bad and he hasn't done much else of note. Could be mafia tapering off or town struggling. BC: I mostly think he could be town because of The Meta. As per my previous posts, I think I scum-read him more for NAI playstyle differences than actual mafia motivations. MAFIA: Koshi: I can see more reasons for my null reads being town than I can for Koshi being town, ergo he's likely scum again by POE. I even read the last few pages of his cancerous filter and saw nothing town. Also I cannot relate to the opinions he claims to have whatsoever. Meanwhile I can kinda see where most other players are coming from. iGrok: I agreed with HF's earlier points on him and his one substantial post today was horrible. rayn: Has not done anything all game, has said nothing smart, doesn't seem interested in solving the game, etc etc. Really have no idea why anyone town-reads him. Where do you put VE? | ||
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On May 24 2019 23:22 Holyflare wrote: oh boy a rayn/koshi/igrok team?? that's a really bold claim I think it's possible. If you townread VE, this makes more sense than Artanis/Calix/iGrok or whatever, and probably pushes into the "likely" territory. However I'd probably scum Artanis before either Koshi/rayn because I haven't actually read Koshi/rayn since mid d1 or so when Koshi long stopped being funny and rayn was forced to end his tunnel on Jock. (I was mostly ignoring them both even before then, but sporadically reading-I mostly only read their posts now if they're on the latest page) I think the only "makes sense" options for scum at this point are in this pile of players: iGrok Artanis VE rayn Koshi and sorry in advance bro, but, BC | ||
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