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On June 27 2018 14:10 CopCake wrote:
Then your appeal to emotion is useless and i dont see why you bother to ask me that when i have what I think is a good case.
Wait that would have made a difference to you?
My point was that I'd put Calix, Rayn, and HF as a similar calibure of player, actually I have that sense about Regfan as well.
I don't think one day of discussion is sufficient to determine their alignment.
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arg, and yes I realize my vote is still on Reg
I never said I wasn't a hypocrite myself, but in my defense I am trying to figure out who is actually a good lynch today right now.
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On June 27 2018 14:11 Mocsta wrote:
To be honest, I can only see someone taking issue with this if they are concerned Calix is a mislynch and it will make them look bad. I would say only mafia could have that level of certainty on D1 so I really dont know where that puts us?
I am concerned Calix is a mislynch, but only factor in how that would be bad for town.
How would it make me look bad? More to the point here, why would I as mafia stick my neck out to 180 when I've clearly done some legwork to have a perfectly valid reason to push Calix here?
These are the little snips that will get me to scumread you, it's hedging at it's finest. You are overall suggesting you think I am town but throw this bit in like you need to keep a line of reasoning that I am mafia.
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On June 27 2018 14:16 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 14:15 Tictock wrote:On June 27 2018 14:10 CopCake wrote:
Then your appeal to emotion is useless and i dont see why you bother to ask me that when i have what I think is a good case. Wait that would have made a difference to you? My point was that I'd put Calix, Rayn, and HF as a similar calibure of player, actually I have that sense about Regfan as well. I don't think one day of discussion is sufficient to determine their alignment. Well thats truly insulting now for me isnt it.... fuck off to bed now please.
Lol, if it makes you feel better I tend to have more fun playing with you than people like Rayn, and HF.
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Allright, I have some catching up to do, but first off I did as promised and read over Cake's Calix case from the top of pg 23.
I think the most interesting part to me was Calix's early vote on HF, which I hadn't noticed before. So hopefully Calix has given her reasoning there, or if not if she could plz.
The rest of your case, Cake, I didn't find too compelling. I had already discussed her case on you and her post about Reg's open, so those were old news. I read this in traffic on my way to work so I wasn't able to check every post you mentioned, but I noticed a few of the ones you quoted you seemed to be putting some words in her mouth. For example you posted one where she is questioning HF's focus on me, and conclude that she is calling him mafia there. To me that post read as just a general questioning, not one that pre-supposed HF to be mafia.
Having slept on it, I felt ok about Mocsta's reactions to my post on him. He seemed more happy to have a more confident read on me than defensive for being attacked. I may move him back to a town lean, but will see how I feel when I start catching back up.
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On June 27 2018 17:33 Vivax wrote:
There's a reasonable chance HF and rayn are mafia this game cause reasons. You should sheep this ironclad case.
Eh, Rayn seems pretty likely to be town to me here, though I don't think I've ever correctly called him out as mafia. Still his mindset has flowed well with mine so feel pretty fine leaving him as a townread.
HF I could easily see being mafia, he has been pretty sideline noise this game and his reads haven't really evolved much, he's just started talking about a wider range of people. I tend to feel that way about him most games though.
I'm gunna start a list of players to filter during my meal, HF is gunna be first on my list. I think I was giving him some townie points for ignoring Conversion and focusing on something he saw from me, but that's super weak at this point.
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On June 27 2018 19:28 Regfan wrote:Really difficult to actually get a read on Conversion here since his HF push/scum-read looks to be entirely based on some OGI-esque type grudge or a joke-push that he's just maintained for the sheer majority of the day phase. It has scum motivation in that they can hide behind a push that can easily be chalked up as less alignment indicative but ultimately neither of those things feel out of the question for a TL player to do as town. There's other reads/thoughts inside his ISO, some I can sort of follow, others I can't, really though, not a lot to actually get a solidish read on anywhere there. @Conversion - 1) Can you please just run through where your concern with HF stems from; what's he done here or previously that makes you think he's a worthy policy lynch type player? Can you also try and pull away from your issues with him as a person/player and run through what you think of his alignment in this game 2) How'd your dive into TT go, wouldn't mind you running through your stance on Vivax a little more for me, in #373, you mention you don't really think either him or Calix is mafia, I can follow your reasoning for not thinking they're a scum team there but I don't really see much more to it and removing him and throwing Shockwave/Koshi as your lynch pool feels fairly lazy. - R
IMO you should just ignore Conversion re: HF. It is some sort of gruge, or more like he is just unwilling to try and read HF so just always assumes he is mafia and thinks the best play is to kill him first.
And I'm not quoting it, but your next post about Rayn here reminded me of something in the Conv v Rayn shit fest that I want to check. Conversion is well know to rage when insulted (though he never has a problem throwing the insults himself), even to the extent that he got himself modkilled in his last game after blowing up about some bout of name calling or some such.
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On June 27 2018 20:35 Regfan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 20:15 Calix wrote:
I'm as good as rayn and HF? Since when? lmao
Anyway I've skimmed the thread. I'm making the executive decision to largely ignore the TWO (!!!) giant cases against me since I'll be working for most of the day and putting me on the defense near EOD is a really bad idea. I'll be around for EOD though so I can do some filter-diving and give reads then ^^
Also Regfan goes up a notch for being sensible, looking into things and discouraging that dumb fight or whatever you'd call it between Tictock and Mocsta (while Mocsta's case was pretty bad, it's not mafia-terrible, I don't think).
Regfan also realises that, in a game where about 1/3 of the players aren't actually playing, lynching someone who is playing on D1 is suboptimal.
Yes, yes, this argument is really self-serving but it's not wrong so you should probably just do it.
In a normal game, this would be the part where I tell you who the best lynch is but I would be lying if I said I had any preference. Sure, I can analyse Koshi/ ShoCkeyy/ Vivax or whine about how terrible it is that two players haven't posted yet. But I don't think it's possible to accurately assess players with such low post counts so I don't see the point of wasting time by pretending to do so. I could lynch literally any of them right now and my thoughts are probably not changing until they actually start doing stuff. I actually think you're town now and so does Regfan, he's taking care of that and I'm supposed to be taking care of our lynch but I'm not really functional IRL right now so I could use some help, I know you've kind of fallen apart and don't know who to lynch at all but I'd appreciate having your voice. My favored lynches right now are Vivax/TT/Conversion but Regfan doesn't want to lynch TT and Mocsta says that Vivax is self-resolving so I feel a little bit stuck. It's probably worse because I feel like shit and my reads on them are basically just gut at this point. Anyway I'm going to filter them and try to read and figure out what I think properly and put down some stuff in thread hopefully and would really appreciate it if you look over it with me if you feel up for it. -G
Why do you want to lynch me? I’ll admit I sometimes just skim your guy’s posts but I don’t recall you sharing anything about that.
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On June 27 2018 21:11 Vivax wrote:
Hydra boi is lock town
I agree, the series of posts on (I think I'm reading pg 25) feels very towny.
I am starting to feel that Vivax is town as well for little bursts like this. Actually a quick review of his posts has me feeling that he is just posting whatever he thinks at the time, which is not only townie in general but I think is something Vivax struggles with as mafia. Don't quote me on that bit of meta though, as I can't recall when I've played with a mafia!Vivax.
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Looks like I was actually reading pg 26, which I have now finished.
I need to move my vote off Reg kus I am starting to think I have just been wrong and a bit tunneled on him, and even of not seems to be a solid player to keep around given what I've been reading.
I am warming up to a ShoCkeyy lynch, so will move my vote there. He is going to be the next name on my list of dives, but unless he posts a bunch more that will be a short filter.
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On June 28 2018 01:12 Vivax wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 23:44 Tictock wrote:On June 27 2018 17:33 Vivax wrote:
There's a reasonable chance HF and rayn are mafia this game cause reasons. You should sheep this ironclad case. Eh, Rayn seems pretty likely to be town to me here, though I don't think I've ever correctly called him out as mafia. Still his mindset has flowed well with mine so feel pretty fine leaving him as a townread. HF I could easily see being mafia, he has been pretty sideline noise this game and his reads haven't really evolved much, he's just started talking about a wider range of people. I tend to feel that way about him most games though. I'm gunna start a list of players to filter during my meal, HF is gunna be first on my list. I think I was giving him some townie points for ignoring Conversion and focusing on something he saw from me, but that's super weak at this point. What does this even mean? Why does he get townie points for ignoring conversion and pushing you?
Check my filter if you really care, I explained it earlier.
I thought him ignoring someone who was just shouting to lynch HF and instead push something else was fairly towny.
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On June 27 2018 21:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I simply don't have much to add rn. Also when someone acts like complete ass towards me for no reason at all i am gonna grab my tools and go home. I have better things to do than lose my mental health over some idiot.
Neither of you get to ride a high horse here Rayn, you were both shitty to each other.
I am focusing this and haven't read the rest of the post yet. Kus I am sick and tired of seeing this attitude on these forums. It has driven people away and yet everyone pretends they are not the problem.
Also given who I am talking too this feels like an excuse, I know you can take as much as you can dish Rayn. Either don't lower yourself to the shit flinging or don't act hurt when you get shit on your face. You don't get it both ways.
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On June 27 2018 21:21 raynpelikoneet wrote:I simply don't have much to add rn. Also when someone acts like complete ass towards me for no reason at all i am gonna grab my tools and go home. I have better things to do than lose my mental health over some idiot. Calix is painfully obviously mafia. Vote on Vivax means absolutely nothing since it's probably the best thing to do regardless of Vivax' affiliation. She isn't even trying to do anything after Cake case, simply just nothing, except for looking into lurkers (which also was btw scummy as per her opinion). If i have ever seen a staged conversation it is the one between Calix and Vivax. Oh my dear god i laughed at it yesterday.  Vivax has simply zero train of thought in anything he has said this game. It is that simple. I am growing more and more suspicions regarding the hydra. Probably our third mafia right there. Some bullet points: - The thing i talked about earlier where Regfan's and Gemma's thoughts never even try to meld. It was like they are playing a completely different game by themselves and not even trying to figure out which one is wrong when they have a differing opinion on something. Magically, now, when i point this out, it changes! Except that this doesn't make any sense either since Gemma tried to feed some "you don't probably just know how playing as hydra works" bullshit that doesn't even make any sense. But anyways, if she believes in that, there is no reason to change the way they act. So basically it is just done because someone figured out it is not natural what they were doing, and it is because the only reasons you would want to do that is to either stay on both side of the fences or if "one person fucks up, the other one cleans after". - Then there is the thing where Gemma calls Calix town because Calix was nice, and me mafia because i was not nice, early on in the game. When Calix answers my case later on (i should also note that Calix never really touches the actual case even, just some random shit about wording and stuff), what's Gemma's opinion... Calix is supertown because Calix is not nice!!!! Yeahhhh, it's quite amusing when supposedly same standards work in the opposite way regading who is the person in question. - Same with Regfan's read on Calix. The post where Mocsta did go into argument with him earlier today. Regfan doesn't want to lynch Calix because some bs about some three people not being mafia together and some percentage stuff. What is that even, you lynch people who are scummy. If you don't want to lynch someone then you don't think they are scummy. Regfan never even says if he thinks Calix is scummy or not, just some crap that has nothing to do with Calix' affiliation and the conclusion is "not a good lynch". Way to present a "read" without actually saying anything about the person. - Then there is this TT read. 12 hours ago Gemma literally posted this; "We both felt good about TT at the same time.". Suddenly Gemma heavily dislikes TT, for no apparent reason. Basically the only thing TT has done since 12 hrs ago is agreed with the hydra's read that Calix is not necessarily a good lynch. That is literally the only thing that has changed regarding tictocks reads after Gemma called him town. Conclusion; Holyflare watch out, you see what they are doing? - I am not sure i believe regfan doesn't have a read on me since basically every game we have been together in he (as town) always claims "rayn is super easy to read when he is town" (which also simply by association means i am easy to read when i am mafia). If that is correct or not, it's irrelevant, it's relevant he believes so regardless how much of time has passed from our last game together. So yeah, those are my scumreads. I pretend Conversion doesn't exist in the game but he is most likely not mafia anyways.
Having read this whole post now, I am downgrading Rayn to a slightly town-leaning null.
I already explained why I thin his first bit is just an excuse to remove himself from the game. I find his obsitance on Calix a bit unnerving as well, there has been plenty of content from her to read past the Cake case but he just dismisses it all. Then the stuff about Reg reads somewhat reasonably, but I can't shake the feeling that this could be a mafia!rayn trying to give himself more lynch options.
Only thing in this post I sorta agree with is the bit about Conversion.
@Rayn
Vivax has simply zero train of thought in anything he has said this game. It is that simple.
So does this mean you think he is scum? If so why is this different than a town!Vivax who is not known to have a very clear train of thinking, or at least not one that most people understand?
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On June 27 2018 21:35 Holyflare wrote:
I think I agree with rayn about reg. None of the posts they seem to pick out would usually mean anything to an alignment.
Not sure about his calix read though.
Ugh why are you such background noise, you are just tagging on vague thoughts and opinions here and there.
Maybe Vivax is actually the town hero here for suggesting a HF/Rayn team.
I know your play has been lessened as of late but I know HF can do better than this given time constraints.
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On June 27 2018 21:43 ShoCkeyy wrote:I think Vivax is town, after reading convos between Tictock and Calix... Who btw barely even talk to each other in the thread other than "I didn't like your case against Cake".It stars with Calix here: Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 08:06 Calix wrote:On June 26 2018 08:05 Tictock wrote:
Well nothing to do but pretend like I am working and play this instead.
What up peeps Sup, long time no see. Fancy randomly bandwagoning some AFK person for the lulz? What I've found in past games is that afkers are usually town, and away, since they don't have a huge role in the game, they tend to just sit back, watch, and post when needed. And also honestly, I've notice way more mafia trying to lynch into afk towns, than anything. I would understand the afkers too because I thought the game was starting Tuesday. Not Monday night, so I had to play a large catch up as part of it. here Calix still trying to put blame on afker's, low post count trying to lynch them off, or Vivax, who is starting to look more town after each post because of the interactions between Tictock and Calix. Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 20:15 Calix wrote:
I'm as good as rayn and HF? Since when? lmao
Anyway I've skimmed the thread. I'm making the executive decision to largely ignore the TWO (!!!) giant cases against me since I'll be working for most of the day and putting me on the defense near EOD is a really bad idea. I'll be around for EOD though so I can do some filter-diving and give reads then ^^
Also Regfan goes up a notch for being sensible, looking into things and discouraging that dumb fight or whatever you'd call it between Tictock and Mocsta (while Mocsta's case was pretty bad, it's not mafia-terrible, I don't think).
Regfan also realises that, in a game where about 1/3 of the players aren't actually playing, lynching someone who is playing on D1 is suboptimal.
Yes, yes, this argument is really self-serving but it's not wrong so you should probably just do it.
In a normal game, this would be the part where I tell you who the best lynch is but I would be lying if I said I had any preference. Sure, I can analyse Koshi/ ShoCkeyy/ Vivax or whine about how terrible it is that two players haven't posted yet. But I don't think it's possible to accurately assess players with such low post counts so I don't see the point of wasting time by pretending to do so. I could lynch literally any of them right now and my thoughts are probably not changing until they actually start doing stuff. Then tictock's reasoning of not "voting for Cilax" Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 14:00 Tictock wrote:
I think I am also just pretty against lynching Calix today.
I still a bit of sus on her, but her play as the day has gone on has left me feeling like their is a solid chance she could be town here still.
Even if I was still toying with the idea of Calix being in my working Mafia team (which is purely just to keep my imagination going, I don't actually think I have a good chance at pinging the entire team D1), I would probably advocate against her lynch today as she is a bad player to lynch D1.
Honestly I really want to push town to do the smart thing for once D1 and kill off someone like Shokey or Koshi. Boxer deserves something worse than a lynch for signing up with an exclamation right before the game starts then not posting for most of D1 (assuming he does post and nothing truly terrible happened to him).
I also think Vivax is probably a fine lynch, and want more people to relook at Mocsta again since he's fresh on my mind now. Possibly lynching off a teammate d1 won't work for him, so yea let's go for the afkers or Vivax the well known town...
Vivax the well known town...
I'm sorry, what?
You need to explain to me this Vivax is solid town read, because you just loosely frame it as being evident because of interaction between me and Calix? Makes no sense
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On June 27 2018 22:17 ShoCkeyy wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 22:08 Calix wrote:On June 27 2018 22:04 ShoCkeyy wrote:Vivax, why can't it not be something they do? If he claims he can't die, there's only two reasons, he's a role, or he's mafia. There's a 50/50 chance, and if he doesn't die tonight, does that increase the likely hood he is mafia? So let me put it in easier terms, math. If there is three mafia shots, three town will die at night + the mislynch leaving us in a really bad spot for tomorrow. If there is two mafia shots, we're still in a bad spot for this next lynch and the following lynch after will really be the game breaker. If there is one mafia shot, we have three cycles to play. If he's already claiming something, then I rather take it as mafia who has a solid chance of surviving all three cycles if he's "unlynchable". On June 27 2018 21:47 Calix wrote:
Another bad post, eh? ^^
Since when did you very conveniently and opportunistically decide to scum-read me, may I ask? And for what reason?
That paragraph about AFKs being more likely town and rambling about the game starting date is filler.
Your town-read on Vivax is based on a very flimsy pre-flip association which will crumple like a house of cards. Do you have any substantial reason to town-read this guy? My town read is because Vivax town read you early into the game, and you've only been trying to get him lynched, which is even odder to me since it's both you and Tictock pushing for Vivax without any dialogue happening between you too. Huh? Mafia can't shoot multiple people in a night. I don't see how trying to lynch someone who TOWN-READS me is scummy since that means I'm trying to vote off someone who isn't going to vote for me...at a time when I'm being discussed as a lynch candidate. In no world does that make me mafia. TT is American iirc, I'm from the UK. We're not usually on at the same time ^^ How do you know they can't shoot multiple times? it doesn't say it in the rules, it just says this: Option A - 1 blue role , 9 vanilla town, 3 vanilla mafia Option B - 2 blue role , 8 vanilla town, 1 mafia roleblocker, 2 vanilla mafia Either two vanilla, or three vanilla, and from the Role PM, it seems like all three can shoot. You probably didn't check because it will be handed to you through mafia QT... along where you and Tictock maybe conversing even though you're on "different" time zones.
Ehhh, feels fake that you use this to continue to push your scumread on Calix.
It is a perfectly reasonable assumption that mafia only get one shot at night as that is the TL Mafia standard. This is something you know, so this just looks like you are slinging anything you can without actually evaluating it.
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On June 27 2018 22:19 Conversion wrote:Show nested quote +On June 27 2018 22:11 Regfan wrote:
Conversion
I really disliked the way he was pushing on HF, I also don't know if I entirely believe that he was just joking about scumreading him, because in #349 he responds to a serious post about a different read by saying he's not pushing that person, he's pushing HF. If his HF push is a joke, this feels like abusing that as a way to avoid responsibility for other stances, which would be the main mafia motivation for such a tunnel in the first place. He also says in #373 that HF is in his lynch pool, and given that the rest of that post is entirely serious, I don't really understand him not dropping the shtick there if that's what it was and being like "okay I'm being real now guys, here's my lynch pool" or whatever.
Sidenote I have no idea why I keep gendering Calix as male.
#216 was the first post where I started to feel tangibly bad about him, the way he talks about Cake feels disconnected but that's really just a little thing and more gut than actual reasoning I can talk about in a sensible way.
I'm a little bothered by the difference between his serious posts and the rest of his content. It feels fake somehow, that he's making a lot of little bite-sized posts that are kind of empty, then interspersing them with more serious ones. I don't know exactly how to explain this right now but the process inconsistency there feels bad.
I also just don't really have any real idea of who Conversion really thinks is mafia and why. I don't think he's really put himself out there at all or taken any meaningful stances and that also feels bad.
His read on us in particular I dislike. It feels like he's been trying to deny us towncred for as long as possible. He started off by asking people why we were town, excluding the most obvious reasons why we were town, then later says that we're logical in a good way but unmemorable and it doesn't feel like something he's genuinely thought through on his own. He also says that we're unmemorable literally right after rereading us, so I don't understand how that's even a thought? That's from #373, if you want to go see what I mean.
I also think the way he has treated Vivax is weird, he's said twice now that he doesn't feel like Vivax+1 make sense as mafia together but not really shown any deeper thought than that and that doesn't feel genuine to me.
I struggle to follow his thoughts in #517 and for the most part the way he talks about his stances feels kind of fake.
I wouldn't say I strongly scumread him by any means but I don't think he's town right now and I don't think I'd be opposed to lynching him today. There are a bunch of little things from him that I sort of slightly dislike, one or two things that I dislike more, and not really anything from him that I like except his tone and well, the fact that he's at least made some posts.
I would definitely appreciate some help with this read because there's probably a chance that some or a lot of this is playstyle and I don't really want to get hung up on that kind of thing. I wouldn't mind hearing him respond to any parts of this that he feels inclined to, especially if he were to talk about who he actually wants to lynch and why that would be really great.
-G These are exactly the type of posts I have an issue with concerning your play. You make this long-winded post that is teetering on the edge of painting me scum, and even saying you wouldn’t mind lynching me, but then you do this soft cry for help shit. Stick to your guns and actually push and make a read? If my playstyle is scummy to you, then stick to that. If you’re unsure, then don’t lynch me over your stronger scumreads
I actually found myself agreeing with Reg's post about you, it is pretty in line with my own thinking.
At the same time, I kinda like this response. It's a level headed "come at me bro"
You guys can both be town, imo.
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On June 27 2018 22:37 CopCake wrote:
I am sorry Calix, my answer might come of the one of an ass but your answer about me initially asking you then must habw been boring or not satisfying because I dont remember.
It didnt make me thing “Oh well this read is good maybe Calix is town” but it didnt happen.
The only universe I can think of you being town is if Rayn is mafia.
Out of curiosity, how would you rate your ability to catch a Mafia!Rayn cake?
I don't think it is out of rayn's scum range to pull up some meta regarding you to justify townreading you and thus trying to pocket you for the game.
Having said that it was really only Rayn's last post I touched on that has me considering the universe you are referring to.
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On June 27 2018 22:39 CopCake wrote:
And I dont like regfan being all “oh but i havent played you know this rayn”
Sounds like appeal to emotion.
Everyone is busy.
Everyone has a life.
Me right now is answering from a gym so yeah.
You are taking this way out of context, there was a bunch of reasoning past this and it is kinda oversimplifying what Reg said anyhow.
Looking at how/why people leave the thread is valid imo. Rayn ducking out kus he and Conversion exchanged a few insults is vastly different than someone having a life.
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On June 27 2018 22:46 Koshi wrote:
I read rayn last post and this page in reverse order. I havent read the last 12ish pages except snippets somewhere I posted. Nothing from Vivax or Calix looks town enough to warrant protest. So I wont. Regfan I wouldnt lynch in a million years. Holy fuck can they type words. If you play scum like that you need to get a reality check irl. Ponder your life choices.
So with the best player on this site being hindered to solve the game I have no choice to believe the second best player.
I assume he is votin Calix
## Vote Calix
This is where all uncertain voters should be voting btw.
Koshi can play so much better than this with just as little effort.
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EPT
