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On June 26 2018 21:42 raynpelikoneet wrote:Calix you have been around postwise three hours easily more than me now yet the only thing you have managed to do is to get on a shitting contest after Cake already told you basically half of the things i did. It took me like 5 minutes to find all the games she has played on TL. It took me like 15 minutes to read the filters until D2 (or N1 -- i don't think "D2 meta" can be compared to early game anyways since it just simply cant because the amount of information available). Here are the games go see by yourself: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/510083-1-day-mafia -- town http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/493411-newbie-student-mafia-xiv-firefly -- mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/525420-ms-paint-off-mafia -- town http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/501883-pick-your-power-intriguing -- mafia http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/mafia/495390-crossfire-mafia -- town In the first three games i did play aswell. This took 5 minutes using the search, which anyone is aware of if they have played mafia on TL. I do not believe you can simply just be so simple minded you decide that "oh those things jsut make her mafia" when you have absolutely no clue about her personality or how she plays. Like Gemma's approach to the situation is perfectly valid, so is Mocsta's. They take the route where they actually think about what something means and try to make some sense to something that doesn't make sense for them atm. You just pick a post, sometimes even completely misrepresent it (see the question S) and decide it is a mafia post). It is jsut not an approach a townie takes.
Uh, so what if I've been awake for longer than you have? I have a life. I do non-mafia-related stuff. This is you yet AGAIN imposing this expectation of what I "should" have done by X arbitrary point that isn't founded in anything and which you're not applying to any other player.
Yes, I don't know about half the players in the game, don't really know most of the other players, and have to make educated guesses as to their alignment with incomplete information. That's literally why I'm playing this game. Your point?
I don't know how to respond to the last two sentences since you don't give much evidence. Sorry to say that the difference between plural and singular with 'questions' does not count.
In any case, talking to you has made me more convinced that you are also mafia. I don't get the impression you're actually talking TO me, more AT me, and I see no evidence you care about why I'm doing anything.
It reminds me of talking to CH from last game if we're going to use meta references 
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On June 26 2018 21:42 Regfan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:I will tell you a secret. During work i went through every single mafia game i ever remember Cake playing on teamliquid and as mafia she has absolutely zero townreads during the first cycle. Literally zero.  I will tell you another secret, there is simply no reason to think Cake is mafia because she is mostly interested in my alignment or what i think her is. You could simply just go look at any game we have played together in in last years or so. Painting one question you can't understand (while you could just simply ask -- or go check) as "useless question S" is not only lazy as hell, it's also misconstruing the whole thing in the first place. Third secret. Who needs Gemma the seer when you have Calix the "i didn't really care to read anything much i just went to some random person's filter that btw doesn't make any sense to go to in the first place given the playerbase and hallelujah!! Every post was a mafia post!" yeah right. Looking for mafia or looking for a lynch? a) Cake never having made a townread during the first cycle isn't a reason to townread her in this game, that's such a copout way to townread someone and I don't understand how it's real.
Ofc it isn't because she has never ever made one as mafia yet she does that every game as town. Another thing regarding this is that i was thinking, when i went from "idk" to "yeah she's probably town", was when someone (i think) questioned her from the townreads on Conversion and Tictock. I don't simply see any reason ever, as mafia, to say at that point that Conversion and TT are town, unless you actually have some weird way of thinking they are. that eventually lead me to read her past games which eventually lead me to what i said before.
b) You aren't even explicitly saying that you do townread her or giving reasoning for townreading her, so much as saying there's no reason to scumread her.
I am quite clearly saying i think she is town.
c) The way you're talking through this whole post as if your reads have already been thoroughly established, but they haven't, and there's a huge gulf of missing process where I have no idea where anything you're saying is coming from. It's like you've jumped into positioning yourself in a certain way that feels really forced.
And i have no idea where this missing process is, because in the post you didn't understand i clearly explained the process thoroughly. I am sorry i didn't use 1000 words.
c) You're not talking about Calix as if you even think he's mafia. You're coming at this from sideways still, and it's like you're more interested in making Calix look stupid and bad than really scumreading him or actually analyzing anything he's doing.
I think it's pretty clear i am, and have been calling her mafia from the moment i +1'd Mocsta's post. I myself do not think you must always write with big red letters "THIS IS WHY THIS PERSON IS MAFIA NOW HEAR ME OUT!!" to make it clear what one thinks. I don't do that. Except when i do.
d) You completely ignored my posts on CopCake, despite apparently townreading her, which again makes me feel like you're not really interested in seriously digging into her alignment or approaching any of this honestly, so much as discrediting Calix's push on her.
And Regfan just told me while I was writing this that you're dating CopCake, so that's a thing apparently. Don't think it really changes how I am reading this from you very much.
I think my posts starting form p11 should answer your posts, even if i don't directly address my posts to you.
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Alright, thanks rayn, I'll make a point of rereading your ISO. It's late and I'm overtired and grumpy, so I'll do it tomorrow.
What I meant with missing process was more the "here are suddenly all of the hard stances that I have" out of nowhere type thing, that I didn't see coming at all from your previous posts. Which, I guess can just be playstyle? I need to touch base with Regfan, he wanted to take point on reading you and I trust him more with it given his familiarity with your meta anyway.
-G
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On June 26 2018 21:42 Regfan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 21:03 raynpelikoneet wrote:I will tell you a secret. During work i went through every single mafia game i ever remember Cake playing on teamliquid and as mafia she has absolutely zero townreads during the first cycle. Literally zero. I will tell you another secret, there is simply no reason to think Cake is mafia because she is mostly interested in my alignment or what i think her is. You could simply just go look at any game we have played together in in last years or so. Painting one question you can't understand (while you could just simply ask -- or go check) as "useless question S" is not only lazy as hell, it's also misconstruing the whole thing in the first place. Third secret. Who needs Gemma the seer when you have Calix the "i didn't really care to read anything much i just went to some random person's filter that btw doesn't make any sense to go to in the first place given the playerbase and hallelujah!! Every post was a mafia post!" yeah right. Looking for mafia or looking for a lynch? a) Cake never having made a townread during the first cycle isn't a reason to townread her in this game, that's such a copout way to townread someone and I don't understand how it's real. b) You aren't even explicitly saying that you do townread her or giving reasoning for townreading her, so much as saying there's no reason to scumread her. c) The way you're talking through this whole post as if your reads have already been thoroughly established, but they haven't, and there's a huge gulf of missing process where I have no idea where anything you're saying is coming from. It's like you've jumped into positioning yourself in a certain way that feels really forced. c) You're not talking about Calix as if you even think he's mafia. You're coming at this from sideways still, and it's like you're more interested in making Calix look stupid and bad than really scumreading him or actually analyzing anything he's doing. d) You completely ignored my posts on CopCake, despite apparently townreading her, which again makes me feel like you're not really interested in seriously digging into her alignment or approaching any of this honestly, so much as discrediting Calix's push on her. And Regfan just told me while I was writing this that you're dating CopCake, so that's a thing apparently. Don't think it really changes how I am reading this from you very much. gemma
Not everything is as black and white .. or.. procedural as you may prefer.
~15% of the populatuon relies on introverted intuitiin to guide their thoight process... this is an understanding of patterns that the mind does sunciously and is EXTREMELY diffiucly to convey to non Ni users.
I am an Ni user and i suspect rayn is as well...
Trying to understand the truth beind rayn is in some ways pointless because the thought is derived from so many connections and experiences that form the final conclusion even myself or rayn may not fully comprehend.
Instead look for consistency.
That will tell you if rayn is following gut instinct or bullshitting.
Your way may work for you, but is not the only way to skin a cat.
Ohh and another thing.
Whether i think cupcake/calix is mafia. I am not going to vote and show my hand.. the more info that is released . The more i can form an educated decision once i sleep on it.. i woukdnt base a read on rayn not talking to calix aggressively. This is a sign of experiencw for both town and mafia
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Lol what is this, make hard accusations and when someone debunks you or has more experience playing with someone suddenly his reasons are invalid?
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On June 26 2018 20:10 Calix wrote:I don't care about what kitaman did last game. I'm not kitaman nor am I scum. Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 10:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 26 2018 08:15 Calix wrote:
It was clearly written before he received his role because if he was an investigative role, he (or she, since this is Gemma?) would know that Cops on this site don't get N0 checks.
Thus it's not AI.
I would like to know more about the two players in the hydra though. How many games have they played, where are they from, stuff like that. If the underlined part is really what Calix believes, there is no reason to assume a mafia fakecliming to be a cop would not believe they don't have a N0 check (since that's how it clearly works where Gemma usually plays, and there are indications of that for anyone whop has ever played anywhere else since it's almost always how it works). So instead of writing the post off as non-alignment indicative any smart person -- again, believing what Calix clearly implies here -- would try to possibly catch a mafia in a lie by asking "so why don't you wanna claim your check now?" Calix has struck me as a player who digs into stuff and small discrepancies even when they possibly don't matter (especially in the game where i was mafia with bugs and oats), and this "ignorance" towards a possibly revealing discussion seems very un-Calix-like. So you say that I missed the possibility that mafia didn't read the OP and didn't know about the cop. Then say that "any smart person" (important qualifier that reveals you're not calling me mafia, just stupid) would have asked some questions instead of concluding it meant nothing. Then you make a very weak meta read that you're not really qualified to make. Forgive me if I'm not wowed by your analysis. I'm more convinced you're taking shots at me yet again as opposed to thinking you believe any of this makes me scum.
I guess if Calix has a stronger wolf game then this post isn't something I would townread. I could be reading him on too low of a level.
The reason I thought this was town was because I don't really think that's how wolves talk to people scumreading them very often. Like, there's discrediting the person pushing on you when you're mafia, and there's saying "I don't believe your scumread on me is real", and it takes two different breeds of wolves.
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On June 26 2018 21:58 Regfan wrote:
Alright, thanks rayn, I'll make a point of rereading your ISO. It's late and I'm overtired and grumpy, so I'll do it tomorrow.
What I meant with missing process was more the "here are suddenly all of the hard stances that I have" out of nowhere type thing, that I didn't see coming at all from your previous posts. Which, I guess can just be playstyle? I need to touch base with Regfan, he wanted to take point on reading you and I trust him more with it given his familiarity with your meta anyway.
-G
I have been at work since i said i am going to go to work. I hardly ever quote posts or make bgi posts at work since i hate phoneposting and touchscreens.
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On June 26 2018 21:52 Calix wrote:In any case, talking to you has made me more convinced that you are also mafia.
Also uh, I wouldn't say tonereading is my specialty by a long shot, but, ew.
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On June 26 2018 21:59 CopCake wrote:
Lol what is this, make hard accusations and when someone debunks you or has more experience playing with someone suddenly his reasons are invalid?
What the fuck are you on about, lady? I said his meta point on you might be valid but that it's not a reason to throw out my suspicions on you.
And if you think that I'm going to stop scum-reading you on the basis of meta alone and not from anything you've said THIS game, you have another thing coming. Pick up the pace or get lynched. It is that simple.
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On June 26 2018 22:02 Regfan wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 20:10 Calix wrote:I don't care about what kitaman did last game. I'm not kitaman nor am I scum. On June 26 2018 10:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 26 2018 08:15 Calix wrote:
It was clearly written before he received his role because if he was an investigative role, he (or she, since this is Gemma?) would know that Cops on this site don't get N0 checks.
Thus it's not AI.
I would like to know more about the two players in the hydra though. How many games have they played, where are they from, stuff like that. If the underlined part is really what Calix believes, there is no reason to assume a mafia fakecliming to be a cop would not believe they don't have a N0 check (since that's how it clearly works where Gemma usually plays, and there are indications of that for anyone whop has ever played anywhere else since it's almost always how it works). So instead of writing the post off as non-alignment indicative any smart person -- again, believing what Calix clearly implies here -- would try to possibly catch a mafia in a lie by asking "so why don't you wanna claim your check now?" Calix has struck me as a player who digs into stuff and small discrepancies even when they possibly don't matter (especially in the game where i was mafia with bugs and oats), and this "ignorance" towards a possibly revealing discussion seems very un-Calix-like. So you say that I missed the possibility that mafia didn't read the OP and didn't know about the cop. Then say that "any smart person" (important qualifier that reveals you're not calling me mafia, just stupid) would have asked some questions instead of concluding it meant nothing. Then you make a very weak meta read that you're not really qualified to make. Forgive me if I'm not wowed by your analysis. I'm more convinced you're taking shots at me yet again as opposed to thinking you believe any of this makes me scum. I guess if Calix has a stronger wolf game then this post isn't something I would townread. I could be reading him on too low of a level. The reason I thought this was town was because I don't really think that's how wolves talk to people scumreading them very often. Like, there's discrediting the person pushing on you when you're mafia, and there's saying "I don't believe your scumread on me is real", and it takes two different breeds of wolves. lol this is the post that made me solidfy my read on calix vs cupcake
Mainky because of how calix broke out of character to address rayn
The tone is so different.. somewhat fearful compared to with ubk own cupcake
I.e. hamming up aggression out of fear
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That was for regfan/gemma. Not you.
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On June 26 2018 22:05 Mocsta wrote:Show nested quote +On June 26 2018 22:02 Regfan wrote:On June 26 2018 20:10 Calix wrote:I don't care about what kitaman did last game. I'm not kitaman nor am I scum. On June 26 2018 10:54 raynpelikoneet wrote:On June 26 2018 08:15 Calix wrote:
It was clearly written before he received his role because if he was an investigative role, he (or she, since this is Gemma?) would know that Cops on this site don't get N0 checks.
Thus it's not AI.
I would like to know more about the two players in the hydra though. How many games have they played, where are they from, stuff like that. If the underlined part is really what Calix believes, there is no reason to assume a mafia fakecliming to be a cop would not believe they don't have a N0 check (since that's how it clearly works where Gemma usually plays, and there are indications of that for anyone whop has ever played anywhere else since it's almost always how it works). So instead of writing the post off as non-alignment indicative any smart person -- again, believing what Calix clearly implies here -- would try to possibly catch a mafia in a lie by asking "so why don't you wanna claim your check now?" Calix has struck me as a player who digs into stuff and small discrepancies even when they possibly don't matter (especially in the game where i was mafia with bugs and oats), and this "ignorance" towards a possibly revealing discussion seems very un-Calix-like. So you say that I missed the possibility that mafia didn't read the OP and didn't know about the cop. Then say that "any smart person" (important qualifier that reveals you're not calling me mafia, just stupid) would have asked some questions instead of concluding it meant nothing. Then you make a very weak meta read that you're not really qualified to make. Forgive me if I'm not wowed by your analysis. I'm more convinced you're taking shots at me yet again as opposed to thinking you believe any of this makes me scum. I guess if Calix has a stronger wolf game then this post isn't something I would townread. I could be reading him on too low of a level. The reason I thought this was town was because I don't really think that's how wolves talk to people scumreading them very often. Like, there's discrediting the person pushing on you when you're mafia, and there's saying "I don't believe your scumread on me is real", and it takes two different breeds of wolves. lol this is the post that made me solidfy my read on calix vs cupcake Mainky because of how calix broke out of character to address rayn The tone is so different.. somewhat fearful compared to with ubk own cupcake I.e. hamming up aggression out of fear
Did this guy who has literally never seen me play before just say that me being 'aggressive' is out of character? JFC.
If I'm your scum-read then why aren't you trying to talk TO me here? I'm literally right here in the thread with you and you don't seem to give a shit.
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BEcause you should not talk TO your scumreads.
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Mocsta what the hell is Ni?
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On June 26 2018 21:59 CopCake wrote:
Lol what is this, make hard accusations and when someone debunks you or has more experience playing with someone suddenly his reasons are invalid?
I actually found his clarification response pretty helpful, I just didn't understand his first post about you.
-G
(Flood control sucks.)
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On June 26 2018 22:11 raynpelikoneet wrote:
Mocsta what the hell is Ni? shorthand for introverted intuition
My bad
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I am pretty sure i couldn't be further away from an introvert tbh.
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On June 26 2018 22:17 raynpelikoneet wrote:
I am pretty sure i couldn't be further away from an introvert tbh.
Off topic but common misconception
Introvert has nothing to do with how you behave in social situations
Fact is. We can all be life of the party in the right conditions. Some just reach those conditions easier.
I type you as reliant on introverted thinking and intuition.
Intro thinking is about logical accuracy. HF is a clear example. Many Ti users fant let go of something factually incorrect even if it doesnt change the outcome.
Intro intution is about converging random info into a cinclusion... the problem being you are not always aware of what the inputs are. Ehich leads to challenges expressing why something so simple to the user is so complicated to anyone else.
Anyways. Nuff off topic
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EPT
